raw milk, cod liver oil, cavities - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 12 Old 10-17-2011, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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About 3 years ago we discovered that my son had cavities.  I did some research and started him on Blue Ice cod liver/butter oil from Green Pastures.  I tried raw milk but he was still nursing and wouldn't drink milk.  His teeth have not gotten worse in the last three years (he is 4 1/2).  Then, about 7 months ago he said a tooth hurt so I got creative and got some Stevia chocolate drops to put in his milk & called it chocolate milk.  Now, he prefers milk over food and happily drinks 4 10oz glasses a day.  We recently got some raw butter and I have been giving that to him on bread twice a day as well.

 

I'm not sure how much better his teeth are but they are not worse. I'm wondering if I should still give him the cod liver/butter oil since he is drinking so much milk.  I saw an article by Mercola saying cod liver oil is bad and now I'm worried about too much vit a and d and I just don't know what to do for him. 

 

Any ideas?

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#2 of 12 Old 10-18-2011, 02:42 PM
 
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Have you had his vit. D levels checked?  That might be a good place to start.  What about bone broths?  Are you gluten- and sugar-free?  That can make a big difference, too.

 

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#3 of 12 Old 10-18-2011, 03:23 PM
 
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that dr. is everything but right on that subject angry.gif
Did you notice what he wanted you to buy instead of CLO?
Fermented CLO is traditional, and has been used for centuries with no ill effect.

As to what to do today, I would advise staying on it.
There is 0 evidence that natural A and D are bad for you.
If they were, then why is it in real food?
You can overdose on synthetics though.

I have gone through periods of not taking it, and I really notice a difference both on and off.
Never again will I do without.

Along that line, think about this. Synthetic vitamins are made and sold under the guise that the real deal is toxic.
Does that make sense? Especially in a historical context?
 


I am not a vegetable. I feed myself accordingly love.gif

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#4 of 12 Old 10-18-2011, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Gardenmommy - thanks for suggesting testing him.  What an obvious and awesome idea. I did some research and I was able to find a finger prick test that we can do at home.  If the results are crazy up or down then I will find a doctor to help me, but at least this way I won't feel like I am doing the wrong thing. We aren't gf or sugar free but we were gf for his first 15 months and when he was about that age he fell, just a normal toddler falling, and chipped 2 teeth badly.  Those teeth got cavities.  We don't eat much sugar which is why I always thought it was strange that he would have cavities, but now I understand the vitamin d side of it.

 

I know I did all the research before I started giving him these things but it is so easy to get confused with all the information out there.  It doesn't make sense that you can get too much through natural foods.

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#5 of 12 Old 10-20-2011, 07:11 AM
 
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Can you link to the finger prick test?  I would love to be able to do a simple test with my kids without having to go through the dr.'s office.  I need to get back on the CLO wagon, too.  I think it would be of benefit to my children and myself.

 

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#6 of 12 Old 10-28-2011, 08:03 AM
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There is good evidence that too much synthetic Vitamin A can be dangerous, but the evidence isn't as strong for natural Vitamin A.  There have been some cases of overdose from natural Vitamin A, but they have all been from consuming organ meats from carnivores.  Beyond the recommendation not to consume carnivore liver, there's not a whole lot of evidence that Vitamin A toxicity is really a likely problem to have.

 

Recently, there has been more evidence that Vitamin A needs to be balanced with proper amounts of Vitamin D and that excessive amounts of Vitamin A can exacerbate Vitamin D deficiency.  Cod liver oil has been given a bad name through these claims, and the main reason for this is that the processing that removes toxins removes most of the Vitamin D and leaves most of the Vitamin A.  People know that traditionally, CLO was used to treat rickets, and they falsely believe that any old CLO that they can buy in the store will help cure their Vitamin D deficiencies, and so they turn to these processed CLO's (many of which contain synthetic vitamins and/or almost no vitamin D at all) as natural supplements, which actually make their problems worse.  Mercola's claims are based on this evidence. 

 

I haven't seen any evidence that FCLO is bad for you.  It was used traditionally by many cultures as a sacred and healthful food.  If it were gravely dangerous, I would think we would know by now.  FCLO contains huge amounts of both Vitamin A and Vitamin D and should not exacerbate problems with Vitamin D deficiency.  In fact, it was used traditionally to treat rickets successfully.  However, if you are not getting enough Vitamin D from the sun, it may not be enough to get you to optimum Vitamin D levels, depending on who you ask.

 

Rickets is caused by a very severe form of Vitamin D deficiency, and, as the NIH knows, if your serum Vitamin D is at or above 20 ng/mL, you won't have rickets, and many people have much lower levels without actually having rickets.  However, most of the people that I have seen that are actually studying Vitamin D believe that optimum Vitamin D levels are around the range of 50-80 ng/mL.  I believe that there's good evidence for this since that is the approximate level that people who work outside have, breastfeeding mothers have enough Vitamin D in their breast milk to nourish an infant born in the winter in the far north or south latitudes with those Vitamin D levels, and there are numerous studies that have shown that various health risks are reduced with those levels.

 

While FCLO could be great for raising Vitamin D levels somewhat, I don't think it is a good way to get all of your Vitamin D.  You need to get it from the sun or other supplementation as well, and if you don't, you can expect to be deficient even if you are taking FCLO (though the FCLO would still be doing something good for you).  I have run into too many people who have been deficient despite taking FCLO.  Traditionally, people spent a lot more time outside, built up some extra Vitamin D in the summertime, and used FCLO to help keep their levels up enough in the wintertime when it is not possible to get enough Vitamin D from the sun in most latitudes in the United States.  Traditional cultures from polar regions relied more heavily on seafood in their diets, which provided more Vitamin D.

 

There is a finger-prick and mail-in Vitamin D test available advertised on the Vitamin D Council's website.

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#7 of 12 Old 10-28-2011, 02:17 PM
 
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Very interesting.  Thanks for that.  My eyes start glazing over when I get into the heavy scientific stuff about Vit. D, so I appreciate having it in a more digestible form.

 

 

 

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#8 of 12 Old 11-02-2011, 05:38 AM
 
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If your kid is drinking tons of milk it is good to contimue on the FCLO especially fo rthe Vit to help the calcium be utilized. I stopped taking FCLO because my Vit D levels came up super low on the blood test and I wanted to just atke a Vit D sup and not have the extra A for a while.
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#9 of 12 Old 11-05-2011, 03:15 PM
 
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We have found minerals to be helpful. I put concentrace in drinks, soups, food I am cooking.

 

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#10 of 12 Old 01-26-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Thanks for this info.  I'm curious if you all continue taking FCLO in the summer months.  Or is this just to be used in the winter?  I've seen conflicting information and I'm getting ready to move south this summer. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

There is good evidence that too much synthetic Vitamin A can be dangerous, but the evidence isn't as strong for natural Vitamin A.  There have been some cases of overdose from natural Vitamin A, but they have all been from consuming organ meats from carnivores.  Beyond the recommendation not to consume carnivore liver, there's not a whole lot of evidence that Vitamin A toxicity is really a likely problem to have.

 

Recently, there has been more evidence that Vitamin A needs to be balanced with proper amounts of Vitamin D and that excessive amounts of Vitamin A can exacerbate Vitamin D deficiency.  Cod liver oil has been given a bad name through these claims, and the main reason for this is that the processing that removes toxins removes most of the Vitamin D and leaves most of the Vitamin A.  People know that traditionally, CLO was used to treat rickets, and they falsely believe that any old CLO that they can buy in the store will help cure their Vitamin D deficiencies, and so they turn to these processed CLO's (many of which contain synthetic vitamins and/or almost no vitamin D at all) as natural supplements, which actually make their problems worse.  Mercola's claims are based on this evidence. 

 

I haven't seen any evidence that FCLO is bad for you.  It was used traditionally by many cultures as a sacred and healthful food.  If it were gravely dangerous, I would think we would know by now.  FCLO contains huge amounts of both Vitamin A and Vitamin D and should not exacerbate problems with Vitamin D deficiency.  In fact, it was used traditionally to treat rickets successfully.  However, if you are not getting enough Vitamin D from the sun, it may not be enough to get you to optimum Vitamin D levels, depending on who you ask.

 

Rickets is caused by a very severe form of Vitamin D deficiency, and, as the NIH knows, if your serum Vitamin D is at or above 20 ng/mL, you won't have rickets, and many people have much lower levels without actually having rickets.  However, most of the people that I have seen that are actually studying Vitamin D believe that optimum Vitamin D levels are around the range of 50-80 ng/mL.  I believe that there's good evidence for this since that is the approximate level that people who work outside have, breastfeeding mothers have enough Vitamin D in their breast milk to nourish an infant born in the winter in the far north or south latitudes with those Vitamin D levels, and there are numerous studies that have shown that various health risks are reduced with those levels.

 

While FCLO could be great for raising Vitamin D levels somewhat, I don't think it is a good way to get all of your Vitamin D.  You need to get it from the sun or other supplementation as well, and if you don't, you can expect to be deficient even if you are taking FCLO (though the FCLO would still be doing something good for you).  I have run into too many people who have been deficient despite taking FCLO.  Traditionally, people spent a lot more time outside, built up some extra Vitamin D in the summertime, and used FCLO to help keep their levels up enough in the wintertime when it is not possible to get enough Vitamin D from the sun in most latitudes in the United States.  Traditional cultures from polar regions relied more heavily on seafood in their diets, which provided more Vitamin D.

 

There is a finger-prick and mail-in Vitamin D test available advertised on the Vitamin D Council's website.



 

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#11 of 12 Old 10-16-2012, 03:46 AM
 
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i must comment here that DIET IS EVERYTHING - adding bone broth is and *excellent* step - but if you do not address the issues of fats and oils, grains, sugar and carbs in general, you will have very limited success by just adding bone broth!

 

dental health (as Weston Price's travel research clearly showed) is a matter of NOT EATING THE WRONG FOODS as much as eating the good things - bone broth, quality meats and seafood, etc.

 

We stopped our 1 year olds tooth decay in it's tracks but our immediate success was due to the whole package of changes we made in our diets.

 

You can read her story here

Healing Tooth Decay: Cod Liver Oil/Butter, Xylitol, Spry Gel & Tooth Powder

http://daiasolgaia.com/?p=74

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#12 of 12 Old 03-02-2013, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gardenmommy View Post

Have you had his vit. D levels checked?  That might be a good place to start.  What about bone broths?  Are you gluten- and sugar-free?  That can make a big difference, too.
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