Got Probiotics? (Kefir, Yogurt, Other?) - January 2005 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 136 Old 01-10-2005, 11:12 PM
 
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Oh please tell me I didn't kill my grains!!!!!!
I left them in the oven last night with the light on. It worked really well and had separated into the curds and whey in about 24 hours, as opposed to the 48 it's been taking. Here is my concern, though. My grains have always floated on the top of the milk. This afternoon when I strained off the last batch, however, they were at the bottom of the jar, and are now at the bottom of the jar in the batch I have going now. Does the fact that they're not floating mean I've killed them??? They finally got going strong and I was so excited. sigh.
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#62 of 136 Old 01-10-2005, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would think they are fine still. Wait the full 24 hours, and if the milk does it's Kefir thing, then they are still alive.

You can leave your oven door slightly ajar if you are worried about too much heat building up in the oven.

I've had 'sinkers' and 'floater' grains and they work fine and alternate between these two 'states'. It's just a matter of how much yeast component they have at the time, and the CO2 production makes them float or sink, correspondingly.

Make sure they are as far away from the oven bulb as possible, and make sure the lid is loose or a fine mesh, as to let gasses escape.

I've erm 'accidentally' left them in the oven with light on for more than 24 hours and they were still fine.
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#63 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 01:20 AM
 
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I am really in need of some kefir grains. I killed mine over christmas when I left them for over a week. PM me if you have some to spare
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#64 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 03:06 AM
 
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HI fellow kefirans!

I have a question for the water grainers. Has anyone tried to put a wedge of another citris fruit beyond lemon into the jar?

I did a batch of orange wedge with red clover flower, oatstraw, echinacea and ginger.

:Yum Its great, a little bitter/sour but good. I used rapadura as the sugar for the beasties to feed on and let it go 48 hours.

I am really starting to experiment with the water grains. Is this okay? I mean can I harm my family or the grains?

I looked on Dom's site in the herbal tea kefir section and he is fairly open to the variety of herbs to use, and I am formulating the teas based on mineral and vitamin content of the herbs (I am a Master Herbalist).

I just keep thinking why aren't more people aware of kefir :LOL
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#65 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mountain mom
HI fellow kefirans!

I have a question for the water grainers. Has anyone tried to put a wedge of another citris fruit beyond lemon into the jar?

I did a batch of orange wedge with red clover flower, oatstraw, echinacea and ginger.

:Yum Its great, a little bitter/sour but good. I used rapadura as the sugar for the beasties to feed on and let it go 48 hours.

I am really starting to experiment with the water grains. Is this okay? I mean can I harm my family or the grains?

I looked on Dom's site in the herbal tea kefir section and he is fairly open to the variety of herbs to use, and I am formulating the teas based on mineral and vitamin content of the herbs (I am a Master Herbalist).

I just keep thinking why aren't more people aware of kefir :LOL
I read somewhere that any citrus or fruit with a high acid content is fine for using for your kefir d' aqua. I have tried orange, lemon, and pineapple. I would love to try something with limes and maybe grapefruit/orange.

Regarding the grains and experimenting. There is always the chance the grains might not like a particular brew, but as long as they have some sugar to eat, and a bit of 'citric acid' to help keep it all the right pH, then you should be ok. Heleen from the 'kefir yahoo group' told me that if they don't like some particular brew, they will begin to 'shrink' as the yeast component isn't getting what it needs. But then you can go back to a 'tried and true' recipe and they will fatten up again.

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#66 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by memory maker
I am really in need of some kefir grains. I killed mine over christmas when I left them for over a week. PM me if you have some to spare

Are you sure they are dead? Even doing something like that, won't necessarily kill them, it might just put them semi dormant, esp if you left them in /some/ quantity of milk.

Do you still have them? Have you tried rinsing with filtered water, and then doing the 'starting out' instructions using small amounts of milk, and increasing it slowly until they reactivate?

If within a week they still didn't turn milk to Kefir, then you can pretty much assume they are dead.

I'm really low on my milk grain stock. I've got two orders going out, then, I actually might convert my milk ones to 100% sourdough starter grains, as I'm really enjoying drinking water Kefir ALOT! Plus I love sourdough bread....but I'm still not 100% sure about it, as I also love having milk Kefir around for using as a buttermilk substitute.
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#67 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xenabyte
Do you still have them? Have you tried rinsing with filtered water, and then doing the 'starting out' instructions using small amounts of milk, and increasing it slowly until they reactivate?
I dont have them any more. I didnt have much milk before we left,so I didnt get to put enough on them and I didnt want to have to go buy milk just for the kefir and have the rest go bad.
It was a really nasty mess when I got back so it went into the trash.
Boy do I miss them though
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#68 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh memory maker (formerly mammacarey) /hugs

I will fatten this batch up and get you some more. I'm sorry you lost your kefir grains. You still at same mailing address? I have your old one, if it's the same. I"ll probably be able to mail later this week or next Monday. I'm home alone with the kids this week and it's no fun to drag them to the Post Office with boxes of grains hehe


ALSO:

I just put on a 'tester batch' of store bought, rice milk made into 'vanilla rice milk yogurt' to see how it turns out. I'll have results in 4 hours and if it's anywhere near edible, I'll post the recipe I used and how I altered it.

/cross your fingers for me!
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#69 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 07:36 PM
 
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I had a question - Xenabyte was kind enough to send me some grains a week or so ago, and I think kefir production is going well . . . but the last batch I made the grains weren't in large lumps. Rather I had a bunch of "curdy" looking stuff. Is that normal? I definitely had more left to start my next batch with, but a lot of it was small clumps. Are curds OK to start a new batch with (along with the grains)?

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#70 of 136 Old 01-11-2005, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know exactly what you are talking about. I usually have 'curdy masses' after straining. Sometimes I bother to actually stir gently with a silicon spoon to force them through (sans the grains) into the Kefir, sometimes I just plog it all (with grains) in new milk. It will help your next brew to go faster, is the only difference.

SO glad to hear your grains are going strong and making you Kefir!
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#71 of 136 Old 01-12-2005, 12:14 AM
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Is it more beneficial to let your kefir brew for longer than 24 hours? I like it after 24 hours, exactly. It's nice and creamy and thick. After that magic 24 hour mark it gets more seperated with the curds and whey. Is it nutritionally beneficial to have that strong seperation, or does it not matter much?
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#72 of 136 Old 01-12-2005, 12:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cjr
Is it more beneficial to let your kefir brew for longer than 24 hours? I like it after 24 hours, exactly. It's nice and creamy and thick. After that magic 24 hour mark it gets more seperated with the curds and whey. Is it nutritionally beneficial to have that strong seperation, or does it not matter much?
I'd say the biggest difference is in the taste and in the lactose. Longer brewing = more sour and less lactose. I usually brew mine for two days.

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#73 of 136 Old 01-12-2005, 01:10 AM
 
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Can one have too much yogurt and kefir? I'm trying to research so I can go back to my dh and give an answer. We (me and dc) eat a lot of yogurt here and have added kefir to the mix. He was a little worried we were getting too much of a good thing.
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#74 of 136 Old 01-12-2005, 01:25 PM
 
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Sorry Splendid, I don't have an answer for you - hopefully someone will. . .

Just wanted to let you all know that b the curdy mass with kefir grains added to fresh milk resulted in very thick, lumpy, curdy stuff and whey. I was a little afraid of the lumpy stuff, so I rinsed my grains and threw the rest out. Started a new batch today. Wish I would have saved the whey for making NT fermented stuff - Oh Well!

Otherwise Kefir making is going well - I had my first glass of unsweetened homemade kefir this morning. Before I got grains I was using the sweetened stuff from the store and then my first few homemade batches went into smoothies. Today I was feeling lazy, so I just took it "straight". It was actually good!

I'm nearly ready to start making yogurt.


Happy culturing!

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#75 of 136 Old 01-12-2005, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by splendid
Can one have too much yogurt and kefir? I'm trying to research so I can go back to my dh and give an answer. We (me and dc) eat a lot of yogurt here and have added kefir to the mix. He was a little worried we were getting too much of a good thing.
You body will take what it needs and pass on the rest. The worst thing that can happen is you get 'bloated' or gassy. But then you will know why and can cut it back.

If the yogurt is homemade and diverse culturally, then it might be enough...but the Kefir has a broader spectrum 'biotic' nature to it, and so they are really not that duplicative. I do both also. I will switch off between them also, and use one or the other per day. I just try to get SOME probiotic in me a day, even if it's just my 'kefir water'.
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#76 of 136 Old 01-13-2005, 10:25 PM
 
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a very kind mama here sent me some kefir grains a few days ago. i have made my first batch of kefir (at least by the description it sounds like it worked well. my question is this:

i am dealing with a major skin outbreak righht now. i am not eating or drinking daIRy (and tons of other possible allergy triggers) right now. i was advised that kefir would be fine though because of the fermentation. however i was also advised to only use organic milk (even better if raw) and atm that is just NOT possible. we get wic, and get tons of regular (pasteurized) whole milk. this is what i made this batch with. is it going to be better for me not to drink what was made, and just keep on making the kefire indefinately till we can afford the organic raw milk, or would it be better to go ahead and drink this? what do yall kefiring experts think?

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#77 of 136 Old 01-14-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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I'm a kefir newbie in search of grains to start my own if anyone could help me out

I would like to try making kefir with almond milk, would I need to use the water grains for this?

thanks!

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#78 of 136 Old 01-14-2005, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mystic,

google or find the link for the Dom's site. He has several 'nut, seed milk recipes and how to ferment them effectively.

That being said, yes you can do almond milk, it will not set up like dairy milks, but the 'probiotics' will be in it.

You can use milk grains that you 'convert' to the task, but I wonder, if the water grains might be better....since there is no real 'dairy' in it.

Mmm, just thinking out loud here... I have water grains, but they are so precious to me (I just have enough to do one batch per day) that I'm highly reluctant to do an experiment with it. However I do have extra milk based ones and might try it to see how different it is from 'dairy' kefir. I do like the tast of almond milk! I have successfully done rice milk Kefir, didn't really care for the flavor ALOT, but it was drinkable. I need to go buy almonds or some pre made now....

And WELCOME to Kefir drinking!
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#79 of 136 Old 01-15-2005, 12:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lao80
It was thick like snot and gross. I could pick it up with my hand and when I let it run off my hand my hand would still be clean. kwim? I've got my grains going in some regular milk now. We'll see what happens.
Oh my gosh! My last batch, the 4th w/the grains I just got, did this!!! It did it w/the same bottle of bottle of milk I had used w/all the other batches.

I tasted it and it seemed fine though.
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#80 of 136 Old 01-15-2005, 03:27 PM
 
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If the yogurt is homemade and diverse culturally, then it might be enough

Yay for cultural diversity! I just got done writing a paper about the conflict between the "national" and indigenous culture in Ecuador, so this is really funny for me.

The grains that Heather sent me are happily fermenting away. The light, refreshing homemade kefir is so different from the thickened commercial kind! Some days I can hardly believe that my tart, fizzy drink started as whole milk.
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#81 of 136 Old 01-16-2005, 01:32 AM
 
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I found some grains, going to pick them up on Monday

http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/kefir/kefirlist.php

heres the link for a list of people offering free grains incase this has not been posted here...oh and has anyone tried to make kefir cheesecake? sounds really good!

http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/recipes/rawcheesecake.php


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#82 of 136 Old 01-16-2005, 01:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by xenabyte
Oh memory maker (formerly mammacarey) /hugs

I will fatten this batch up and get you some more. I'm sorry you lost your kefir grains. You still at same mailing address? I have your old one, if it's the same. I"ll probably be able to mail later this week or next Monday. I'm home alone with the kids this week and it's no fun to drag them to the Post Office with boxes of grains hehe
[/B]
Thanks so much! I would love you so much for that. I am still at the same address. LMK how much for shipping. I love kefir smoothies every morning. Makes me feel good the rest of the day.

XENABYTE is my new best friend! : : :
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#83 of 136 Old 01-16-2005, 03:09 PM
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I purchased a yogurt make yesturday. I'm just so tired of not being able to keep the temperature constant in my cooler. It was a little pricey, but not bad. It has individual yogurt cups, which is great because the girls can just grab a cup out of the fridge and dig in.

I do have a question. If I use yogurt from a thick store bought brand with active culture, will I get thicker yogurt from that? I like thick yogurt. The yogurt I have in the fridge right now is a thinner brand. I made a batch overnight, so we'll see how it turned out.
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#84 of 136 Old 01-16-2005, 05:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cjr
I purchased a yogurt make yesturday. I'm just so tired of not being able to keep the temperature constant in my cooler. It was a little pricey, but not bad. It has individual yogurt cups, which is great because the girls can just grab a cup out of the fridge and dig in.

I do have a question. If I use yogurt from a thick store bought brand with active culture, will I get thicker yogurt from that? I like thick yogurt. The yogurt I have in the fridge right now is a thinner brand. I made a batch overnight, so we'll see how it turned out.
Maybe... I believe it's S. thermophilus and L. bulgaris that makes yogurt thicker. Heating to 180, then cooling to 110 firms up the proteins. Also adding 1/2 c. powdered milk will make it thicker because of the extra protein it adds. Make sure it's nonfat powdered milk to avoid the damage to fats during the drying process (Xenabyte mentioned this earlier in the thread).

I like the small cups because it stays firmer rather than making one large batch. When you dig into a large batch the whey starts separating and it seems to fall apart.

I have the Euro Cuisine yogurt maker from Williams Sonoma and I like it very much, it was actually less expensive than others I found. I use the glass jars it comes with or a 2 qt. Pyrex flat bowl that I found to fit the round shape of the maker, for one bit batch.
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#85 of 136 Old 01-17-2005, 02:38 AM
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S. thermophilus and L. bulgaris
Where would I get such a thing? Would I just look at the ingredients listed on the yogurt or do you buy it?

I could not wait and made a batch overnight. I put them in the fridge this morning and tonight I made "Yop". The girls were so happy because I won't buy Yop, but they always ask for it. The yogurt was pretty runny, but I did not add anthing to it. I mixed some berries in each container and shook it up and they drank thier own little glasses of runny yogurt. I told them when they are hungry and want yogurt to just grab a glass from the fridge, but don't take the white glass (the starter for the next batch). Personally I love a nice thick yogurt.
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#86 of 136 Old 01-17-2005, 02:50 AM
 
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Hey Cjr!
My youghurt really firmed up when I started only using 2 tablespoons (30ml) of starter youghurt to make a 1 litre batch. According to the book Wild Fermentation, with probiotic bacteria less is more so that the bacteria can have the sufficient room to multiply. Equalling firmer youghurt.

You could strain the youghurt through cheesecloth and then have whey and really firm youghurt also called youghurt 'cheese.

I tend to keep both the 'cheese' and the youghurt for different uses.
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#87 of 136 Old 01-17-2005, 02:58 AM
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Well, I have always used slightly more starter than called for believing the opposite (no scientific basis, just me thinking that more bacteria with make it thicker). So, I shall do that with the next batch.
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#88 of 136 Old 01-17-2005, 03:04 AM
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So, we were out visiting some friends tonight. Thier neice had a birthday party and invited our girls. We went back to their home for dinner, so not what I'm used to. White rice, pork ribs smothered with bbq sauce. I ate a little and came home and had a glass of yogurt. Anyway, I was telling my "doctor" friend about kefir. I told her that if she wanted to try it out then if my grains multiplied I would get her some. Her SIL was totally grossed out. She knew what I was talking about and said she wouldn't eat it for anything. That her mom made her drink in in shot glasses, plain and that she would never touch the stuff again. She went on about how she had to take care of her grains and fish them out of the milk...and on and on and on. I really didn't care what she was saying, I was just glad that someone FINALLY knew what I was talking about.:LOL

I love my kefir, fruit and coconut oil in the morning. I look forward to it, and the girls love it too.
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#89 of 136 Old 01-17-2005, 02:14 PM
 
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ITA cjr, it would be cool just to meet someone experienced. Too bad the mom didn't improve the kefir a bit.

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#90 of 136 Old 01-17-2005, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey, HEY! I'm been DDDC'd again haha..ok, this one I'll wear with pride.

So, I will be trying to ship out some grains this week, so if you want on the 'list' PM me. Last week ended up being too hectic with DH out of town.
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