NT mamas, & all mamas... cod liver oil in pregnancy? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was trying to find the Nourishing Traditions forum, but was unable - so hope some of you NT mamas out there will find this. I have already had other MDC mamas warn me not to take cod liver oil during pregnancy, but I love it. I have never felt better than when I'm on it, even superior to fish oil. So what is the deal with Vit A? I read info that contradicts other info. I tend to feel that the Weston-Price opinion makes the most sense, (see: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html ) yet I'm still wanting a definitive answer - mainsteam health says avoid cod liver oil during pregnancy or risk birth defects. So I think I'd feel most convinced if I can get responses from mamas who took cod liver oil during their pregnancies, how much, and what was the result? I take 2 tsp per day of Carlson's brand - (contains up to 1,200 IU of vit A per tsp). Also my prenatal vitamin has 2,700 IU of vit A as "Betatene D Salina - natural beta-carotene with mixed carotenoids". Is this too much A? :
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#2 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 12:43 PM
 
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My midwife wanted me to take a DHA supplement put out by a formula company. My concern is that the Nordic Naturals is a better brand. She said I could take that, but I also worry about the Vit. A. I hope someone answers!
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#3 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 12:58 PM
 
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CLO is essential during pregnancy, and better than fish oil IMO. Make sure you get a clean brand. It is important for so many reasons, baby's brain development is a big one. It will also increase the fat content of your bm. Synthetic vitamin A is the problem-not the A occurring in things like CLO. I personally like Carlson's the best. I took it for all my pregnancies, and my kids get it every day. I'm not technically a NT mama, but I'm sure some will chime in. Oh-and I take 2 Tbs. a day under the supervision of my doc and nutritionist. It helps me with depression.
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#4 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 01:47 PM
 
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The Carlson's brand is lower in vitamin A than many other brands- so you can take more (and get the fatty acids) without getting too much vitamin A. I don't remember the numbers offhand, but the only concern is with vitamin A, not beta-carotene. If you're getting half your vitamin A from the multi (ie half is vit A palmitate and half is beta carotene,) and the other half from the CLO, then you have nothing to worry about.

If anything, I'd suggest continuing the CLO and changing the multivitamin (or skipping the multi and taking individual vitamins/minerals.)

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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#5 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
CLO is essential during pregnancy, and better than fish oil IMO. Make sure you get a clean brand. It is important for so many reasons, baby's brain development is a big one. It will also increase the fat content of your bm. Synthetic vitamin A is the problem-not the A occurring in things like CLO. I personally like Carlson's the best. I took it for all my pregnancies, and my kids get it every day. I'm not technically a NT mama, but I'm sure some will chime in. Oh-and I take 2 Tbs. a day under the supervision of my doc and nutritionist. It helps me with depression.
Thanks! do you recall how much CLO you took during pregnancy? Did you also take a prenatal vitamin? My dd loves CLO. There is a MDC member who has been telling me that it doesn't matter if the vit A is synthetic or natural - that it is stored in your body & builds up & can be toxic to your baby. Another MDC member says that during the beginning of pregnancy, your baby is growing so rapidly that it requires a lot of vit A, so if your diet is deficient, vit A is used from your body stores, depleting what you have - making you vunerable to viruses. So it actually seems to make sense that CLO would be ideal. Also, I found online that a study has been done with pregnant women and CLO... it found a connection between CLO use and a decrease in the occurance of type 1 diabetes in their children. (that came up on google). So at the very least there ARE pregnant women who are taking CLO. I am just trying to figure out dosage & whether a prenatal vit makes it too much A.... hope to get more responses.
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#6 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 01:54 PM
 
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You will never get a definitive answer. But if CLO works for you, go with it. I use the CLO at http://www.greenpasture.org and am confident in its quality. It's recommended that pregnant and nursing moms take one tsp a day. That's something like 11000 IUs. Much more than you are now taking, but this brand has a much higher vitamin content than Carlson's. I never took it during pregnancy. Wish I had, though. I discovered most of this right after having my last baby. But I took it while nursing and just stepped back my dosage since she weaned. Again, you'll never get a definitive answer and just need to find what you're comfortable with.

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#7 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 02:00 PM
 
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I'm pregnant now 2 tablespoons a day. A from veggies will never be a problem (that's all the carotenoids) synthetic A is a huge problem, but natural A from animal products really shouldn't be a problem. It hasn't been for us!
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#8 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So is my so-called "natural beta carotene" in my prenatal vit. truly natural? The same as beta carotene from food? If so, then as it was mentioned, I don't have to worry about that since it's not synthetic A?
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#9 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 08:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seahorsie
There is a MDC member who has been telling me that it doesn't matter if the vit A is synthetic or natural - that it is stored in your body & builds up & can be toxic to your baby.
actually i took issue with you saying that the vitamin A that comes from cod liver oil is beta carotine. i never said anything about synthetic versus natural. what i said is it doesn't matter if it's from plant or animal (beta carotine versus retinol), pregnant women shouldn't injest more than 10,000 IU of A per day. since levels higher than that have been associated with birth defects. i never said you shouldn't take cod liver oil, i said you should adjust your dose so that you aren't getting too much.

please, if you are going to talk about what i have said in another forum, please quote what i have actually said.

i stand by what i say, however, anyone here is welcome to do whatever they want with the information i have shared. to me, this isn't "mainstream," i manged three health food stores before becoming a mommy, it's what i did for a living and i was very careful to research what i told people. i am now a professional nutritional consultant and so have to feel confident about what i tell people, since they pay me to tell them this stuff.

you (the generic you) should do whatever you feel is best for your body, your baby and your life, however, please don't (seahorsie) misquote me when you seek other information.




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#10 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 09:53 PM
 
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Natural beta carotene is not vitamin A. Beta carotene is from vegetables and requires the intestines to convert it to A. Vitamin A is only in animal foods.

There is a HUGE difference between retinol, chemical form of vitamin A and natural vitamin A from foods such as liver, grass fed (very yellow) butter and seafood.

The studies showing toxicity were done on retinol, not natural vitamin A. There is NO concern about vitamin A build up from foods.


Weston Price studied thousands and thousands of native people on traditional diets, and found that on average, they ate 10 times the amount of natural vitamin A as modern diets ... with healthier pregnancies, easier deliveries, better bone structure, and cavity free teeth. With pregnancies or even before marriage, many natives made sure that the parents, both of them consumed high vitamin A foods before conception.

Because Vitamin A is crucial to preventing birth defects such as cleft palate, heart defects and club foot. Reading Weston Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" is absolutely life changing in realizing this factor. Also eye sight, jaw and bone formation, etc. etc.

You are getting much too little vitamin A. 1,200 IU is nothing. Even the RDA is something like 5,000 IU?

Beta carotene is only changed into A by the factor of 1/6th or even less by current studies by the action of your intestines... and if that conversion is not optimal even less.

If anyone has any questions, please look up the research studies quoted in the article previously posted by the OP and read carefully, it's all there.

Vitamin A Saga
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

I was warned away from cod liver oil during pregnancy (before learning about NT), took the low vitamin A version, and lived to regret it (had a 40 hr labor). I think it's a travesty that modern medicine perpetuates this myth and relies on incorrect studies.
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#11 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 10:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
There is a HUGE difference between retinol, chemical form of vitamin A and natural vitamin A from foods such as liver, grass fed (very yellow) butter and seafood.

The studies showing toxicity were done on retinol, not natural vitamin A. There is NO concern about vitamin A build up from foods.
YES! I wish more people could understand this!
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#12 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 10:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybeedreams
pregnant women shouldn't injest more than 10,000 IU of A per day. since levels higher than that have been associated with birth defects...

i stand by what i say, however, anyone here is welcome to do whatever they want with the information i have shared. to me, this isn't "mainstream," i manged three health food stores before becoming a mommy, it's what i did for a living and i was very careful to research what i told people. i am now a professional nutritional consultant and so have to feel confident about what i tell people, since they pay me to tell them this stuff.
Could you please share your research as it doesn't seem to be true according to the studies I have read.

Remembering again, that synthetic retinol and natural vitamin A is not the same thing.
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#13 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 10:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodchuck
My midwife wanted me to take a DHA supplement put out by a formula company.
You mean the one that is DHA genetically engineered from fungus and microalgae. That causes explosive diarrhea in babies like the fake fat Olestra. I'd stay far far away! (not to mention not wanting to support a formula co.)
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#14 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 10:23 PM
 
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Quotes from 'Vitamin A Saga' linked above:

Quote:
At the end of the First World War, a physician named Bloch discovered that a diet containing whole milk, butter, eggs and cod liver oil cured night blindness and keratomalacia. In one important experiment, Bloch compared the results when he fed one group of children whole milk and the other margarine as the only fat. Half of the margarine-fed children developed corneal problems while the children receiving butterfat and cod liver oil remained healthy...

McCollum was forced to work secretly in the basement of the Agriculture Hall where he studied the effects of various diets on colonies of rats. He discovered that rats fed pure protein, pure skim milk, sugar, minerals and lard or olive oil for fat failed to grow. When he added butterfat or an extract of egg yolk to their diets, their health was restored. He discovered a fat-soluble factor in certain foods that was essential for growth and survival. This was named "fat-soluble factor A"

[Jane note: reading these two quotes makes me cringe everytime since the talk around the playgyms when our kids turned 2 was "now we can put them on a lowfat diet! ]
Quote:
It is very unwise, therefore, to depend on plant sources for vitamin A. This vital nutrient is needed for the growth and repair of body tissues; it helps protect mucous membranes of the mouth, nose, throat and lungs; it prompts the secretion of gastric juices necessary for proper digestion of protein; it helps to build strong bones and teeth and rich blood; it is essential for good eyesight; it aids in the production of RNA; and contributes to the health of the immune system. Vitamin-A deficiency in pregnant mothers results in offspring with eye defects, displaced kidneys, harelip, cleft palate and abnormalities of the heart and larger blood vessels. Vitamin A stores are rapidly depleted during exercise, fever and periods of stress. Even people who can efficiently convert carotenes to vitamin A cannot quickly and adequately replenish vitamin A stores from plant foods.
Quote:
The tragedy is that misplaced concern about vitamin-A toxicity has led doctors to advise pregnant women to avoid foods containing vitamin A, and parents to avoid giving cod liver oil to their babies. Yet the early books on the feeding of pregnant women and infants recommended generous doses of cod liver oil and frequent liver consumption for pregnant women and two teaspoons of cod liver oil per day for babies three months and older. A majority of our medical problems would clear up very quickly if the populace would return to eating liver and embrace the use of cod liver oil—our finest superfoods.
Quote:
From the work of Weston Price, we can assume that the amount in primitive diets was about 50,000 IU per day, which could be achieved in a modern diet by consuming generous amounts of whole milk, cream, butter and eggs from pastured animals; beef or duck liver several times per week; and 1 tablespoon regular cod liver oil or 1/2 tablespoon high-vitamin cod liver oil per day.

Quote:
While medical orthodoxy claims that consumption of large amounts of carotenes has no downside, it is possible that dependence on carotenes for vitamin A, even in those who are good converters, compromises other biochemical functions in subtle ways.

The so-called nontoxic betacarotene supplements contain a synthetic form of carotene, just one of 50 or 60 carotenes found in the typical diet. The biological activity of synthetic betacarotene is much lower than that of the natural complexes of carotenes and, in fact, may put stress on the immune system Studies with humans and rats given synthetic betacarotene found an increase in white blood cells. In cancer trials, synthetic betacarotenes were not found to be protective. In fact, in one study, patients given synthetic betacarotene had worse results than controls (NEJM April 1994 330: (15);891-895).
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#15 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 10:24 PM
 
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Jane, I knew you'd ride in like a knight in shining armour! It's true though. I have several doctors and a nutritionist advising me and they are all incredible (I don't deal with people who aren't, and I certainly wouldn't pay them to be behind on research ) They have all told me to take the same dosage. Research can be confusing, you really need to understand what you're reading and be able to take it apart bit by bit looking for inaccuracies and misinformation. There's alot of it out there. It's a process.
I don't know about your prenatal...is it food derived? It should tell you if it's a whole food supplement. I don't take a prenatal. I take several of Jordan Rubin's products (perfect food, enzymes, probiotics etc.) I also do Sea Minerals with Silver, a B vitamin complex, several other supplements and lots of herbs (for trace minerals-though Sea Silver supplies that as well.)
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#16 of 152 Old 02-09-2006, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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[QUOTE=honeybeedreams]actually i took issue with you saying that the vitamin A that comes from cod liver oil is beta carotine.


Yes, that was my mistake, I confused the two, which I had already stated...



[QUOTE=honeybeedreams]
please, if you are going to talk about what i have said in another forum, please quote what i have actually said.
i stand by what i say, however, anyone here is welcome to do whatever they want with the information i have shared. to me, this isn't "mainstream," i manged three health food stores before becoming a mommy, it's what i did for a living and i was very careful to research what i told people. i am now a professional nutritional consultant and so have to feel confident about what i tell people, since they pay me to tell them this stuff.
you (the generic you) should do whatever you feel is best for your body, your baby and your life, however, please don't (seahorsie) misquote me when you seek other information.


Forgive me, but I didn't come out and quote you - never mentioned your name. I was speaking "generically" when I spoke of mainstream. Mostly I was referring to online health sources that I have been searching - conservative in nature - many which agree with you. I don't consider anyone on MDC to be mainstream. Others in the past on MDC have also made similar comments on CLO to yours. So I was not specifically referring to you. Sorry that you took this personally. It was not meant to be. I just directed you to this forum because I thought you might be interested.
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#17 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 10:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
Natural beta carotene is not vitamin A. Beta carotene is from vegetables and requires the intestines to convert it to A. Vitamin A is only in animal foods..
you are correct. Palmitate is the natural form, retinol is the supplimental form of A. both are fat soluable and build up in the fatty tissues of the body however. (both do need some conversion in the body to become usable by humans) beta carotene is from plants and is converted in the liver in to vitamin A and is water soluable and so does not build up in the body, we secrete what we don't need. people with thyriod and liver disease are not able to convert beta carotene very well and should be wary of vegetarian diets. (since it's been 5 years since i works with supplements i forgot that plamitate and retinol are different, people did always want to know which was which and i had to memorize all the different chemical names for all the different natural and synthetic forms of all the vitamins! )

one of my sources is from a paid database.. which means i can't give you a link, becuase you need to have paid to have access, but if you want to see it you can PM me. otherwise, you can do a google search for vitamin A and pregnancy and then google will show you the scholarly articles on it (as opposed to ads) and then you can judge for yourself what looks "conservative" or "poorly designed."

like i said before, each woman here needs to do what is right for her body, her baby and her life. i just think everyone should know that there are warnings about how much vitamine A you should be consuming, regarless of it being retinol, palmitate, or beta carotene, and then judge for herself what makes the most sense.

(PS i'm not sure how CLO effects length of labor... my grandma took it everyday of her life and labored with my father for 4 days until the doctor came and yanked him out with forceps! what's scoop on CLO effecting labor length?)

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#18 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 12:59 PM
 
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This question has been burning in my mind! I see my midwife tonight and will ask her. Interestingly, I have been demonstrating some signs of vit. A deficiency this pregnancy- extreme dandruff, for one. Yuck.
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#19 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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One of the reasons I'd really like to stick with CLO, is that I think I was deficient or at least somehow not assimilating the vit A I was getting from food before CLO. I had keratosis most of life & thinning hair beginning in my 20's. After a week of CLO, my keratosis was gone. My hair is thicker also after a longer period. It just seems like something I obviously needed & is good for me is probably a good thing for my unborn child. I think I'm leaning towards CLO and no single prenatal supplement. Firefaery, I'd like to know specifically what supplements you take during pregnancy. I also tend to be anemic while pregnant.
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#20 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
You mean the one that is DHA genetically engineered from fungus and microalgae. That causes explosive diarrhea in babies like the fake fat Olestra. I'd stay far far away! (not to mention not wanting to support a formula co.)

Yeah, I didn't want to support the formula company either. She gave me a sample, which I did take. I think it was cod liver oil because it caused a fishy burp. I prefer the Nordic Naturals Strawberry taste.

JaneS: I'm sorry if I missed it, but do you recommend a certain CLO?
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#21 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 05:57 PM
 
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Do you know why you are anemic? Is it iron deficiency anemia? Is it a B vitamin deficiency? It could also be a low functioning liver...many things can make you anemic. It's kind of important to know why so you can fix the problem properly. My supplements are pretty much what I listed, but I'll expand a bit:
carlsons CLO
cal-mag by flora or natural vitality
garden of life perfect food
sea minerals with silver
designs for health B multi
Juice Plus
designs for health quercetin
designs for health L.glutamine
msm
nettles, rrl, lemon balm, blessed thistle
Those are what I consider to be pregnancy related. HTH
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#22 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 05:58 PM
 
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Oh, and dandruff can also be fungal or a boron deficiency. If the vit A doesn't help you may need to look there.
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#23 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 05:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybeedreams
you are correct. Palmitate is the natural form, retinol is the supplimental form of A. both are fat soluable and build up in the fatty tissues of the body however. (both do need some conversion in the body to become usable by humans) beta carotene is from plants and is converted in the liver in to vitamin A and is water soluable and so does not build up in the body, we secrete what we don't need. people with thyriod and liver disease are not able to convert beta carotene very well and should be wary of vegetarian diets. (since it's been 5 years since i works with supplements i forgot that plamitate and retinol are different, people did always want to know which was which and i had to memorize all the different chemical names for all the different natural and synthetic forms of all the vitamins! )
Nope...retinol (retinal and retinoic acid) is the scientific name for natural vitamin A found in animal foods such as organ meats and properly grass fed dairy and pastured chicken eggs.

Retinyl Palmitate is synthetic and should be avoided as a supplement. Ditto Retinyl Acetate. These are the chief supplements used in research studies and again, they are synthetic.

Retinoids are synthetic, aka Accutane and cis-retinoic acid the Retin-A skin cream. Shown in studies to be seriously toxic during pregnancy.

Beta carotene is converted to vitamin A in the intestines (not the liver, it is stored in the liver)...it is converted by intestinal bacteria. Meaning there are many more conditions where people do not optimally convert it to Vitamin A: long term diarrhea, malabsorption issues, children, etc. The recent report now is a 12:1 ratio, meaning 12 units of beta carotene must be eaten to produce 1 unit of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion.

Quote:
People eating a vegan diet are at a significant risk of vitamin A deficiency. It would take six cups of raw carrots or 20 cups of broccoli to obtain the recommended daily requirement of vitamin A per day.
Simple Facts About Vitamin A
By Randall Neustaedter OMD, LAc, CCH

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...bout-Vitamin-A
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybeedreams
one of my sources is from a paid database.. which means i can't give you a link, becuase you need to have paid to have access, but if you want to see it you can PM me. otherwise, you can do a google search for vitamin A and pregnancy and then google will show you the scholarly articles on it (as opposed to ads) and then you can judge for yourself what looks "conservative" or "poorly designed."
Can you quote the study name and references to me please. I don't need a link, I can find on my own.

I have researched this extensively when I decided to supplement myself and DS with high vitamin cod liver oil. I looked at original research. I have never seen a toxicity study for the natural form of vitamin A.

All the studies that I have read that has shown toxicity/tetrogenicity have been the synthetic version of vitamin A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybeedreams
(PS i'm not sure how CLO effects length of labor... my grandma took it everyday of her life and labored with my father for 4 days until the doctor came and yanked him out with forceps! what's scoop on CLO effecting labor length?)
I do not know what this one particular cause could have been. Studies in animals have shown that vitamin A deficiency causes long labors and inability to push babies out.

CLO as a necessary supplement was common many years ago. My own parents ate (forced to eat as children!) liver and took CLO in orange juice every morning as a matter of course, everyone did b/c that was the prescription to be healthy. It was the Flintstones vitamins of its day.

Weston Price's research on native diets showed as a whole the common amount to ingest from foods was approx. 50,000 IU/day. Of course matched with vitamin D, which modern research has confirmed: vitamin D protects against vitamin A toxicity. Which leads us back to cod liver oil, good source of A and D.

(and by the way, A toxicity is reported at upwards of 100,000 IU/day for several weeks, pretty hard to get from foods.)
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#24 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodchuck
JaneS: I'm sorry if I missed it, but do you recommend a certain CLO?
I prefer the high vitamin versions, right now we are using Blue Ice. When I had a lot of Nordic Naturals, which is low vitamin, I supplemented with Carlson's natural vitamin A & D pills (vitamins were from cod liver oil).

Good page for sources/dosages/toxicity of A & D:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html
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#25 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 06:08 PM
 
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More cod liver oil articles of interest:

Cod Liver Oil: The Number One Superfood

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html

Cod Liver Oil: The Biography of the Remedy That Changed the World

http://www.greenpasture.org/content/..._biography.pdf
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#26 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 07:35 PM
 
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Jane, how do you rate the taste of the blue ice? Is it kid-friendly?
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#27 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 08:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS

Because Vitamin A is crucial to preventing birth defects such as cleft palate, heart defects and club foot.
I've been lurking on here for a while. So does the above mean that my 3 mo old son's heart defects could be from deficiency in me? Somehow that makes it feel like my fault, because I figured eating plenty of vegetables and taking a prenatal (Rainbow Light brand, if it matters) was enough.
Truly not trying to be snitty, just processing . . .
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#28 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 08:56 PM
 
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Noone's trying to make anyone feel guilty. When we know better, we do better. Undiagnosed celiac disease in me really damaged both my kids. I was told I had it, but had never heard of it and just dismissed it. It wasn't until after dd was born and she was in much worse shape than ds that I became proactive. We did testing, found out it was true and also that if I had done something before getting pg with dd she may have escaped all of her problems. It left me malnourished and unable to produce breastmilk at first.
It also wan't until later in my journey that I realized most vitamins were useless-they were either poorly synthesized and absorbed or made from synthetic sources the body doesn't recognize. I started learning what to look for and plan accordingly. I thank my lucky stars that I found mamas with great info so that the outcome of this pregnancy would be different. Also, what Jane posted doesn't necessarily mean that all heart defects are caused by a lack of vitamin A...so take it for the info that it is (no matter how tough it feels) do some more of your own research and maybe it'll give you answers, maybe it won't. But at least you can add it to your bank of knowledge so that if you feel that you need to adjust your diet or supplements next time, you can. I know it can be hard to even consider that you may have contributed to a health problem in your kids, and you may not have. Give yourself some hugs and keep yourself as informed as you can.
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#29 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
Nope...retinol (retinal and retinoic acid) is the scientific name for natural vitamin A found in animal foods such as organ meats and properly grass fed dairy and pastured chicken eggs.

Retinyl Palmitate is synthetic and should be avoided as a supplement. Ditto Retinyl Acetate. These are the chief supplements used in research studies and again, they are synthetic.

Retinoids are synthetic, aka Accutane and cis-retinoic acid the Retin-A skin cream. Shown in studies to be seriously toxic during pregnancy.

Beta carotene is converted to vitamin A in the intestines (not the liver, it is stored in the liver)...it is converted by intestinal bacteria. Meaning there are many more conditions where people do not optimally convert it to Vitamin A: long term diarrhea, malabsorption issues, children, etc. The recent report now is a 12:1 ratio, meaning 12 units of beta carotene must be eaten to produce 1 unit of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion.





Can you quote the study name and references to me please. I don't need a link, I can find on my own.

I have researched this extensively when I decided to supplement myself and DS with high vitamin cod liver oil. I looked at original research. I have never seen a toxicity study for the natural form of vitamin A.

All the studies that I have read that has shown toxicity/tetrogenicity have been the synthetic version of vitamin A.



I do not know what this one particular cause could have been. Studies in animals have shown that vitamin A deficiency causes long labors and inability to push babies out.

CLO as a necessary supplement was common many years ago. My own parents ate (forced to eat as children!) liver and took CLO in orange juice every morning as a matter of course, everyone did b/c that was the prescription to be healthy. It was the Flintstones vitamins of its day.

Weston Price's research on native diets showed as a whole the common amount to ingest from foods was approx. 50,000 IU/day. Of course matched with vitamin D, which modern research has confirmed: vitamin D protects against vitamin A toxicity. Which leads us back to cod liver oil, good source of A and D.

(and by the way, A toxicity is reported at upwards of 100,000 IU/day for several weeks, pretty hard to get from foods.)
: :

"Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this, too, was a gift." -- Mary Olivercoolshine.gif

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#30 of 152 Old 02-10-2006, 10:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mama-a-llama
I've been lurking on here for a while. So does the above mean that my 3 mo old son's heart defects could be from deficiency in me? Somehow that makes it feel like my fault, because I figured eating plenty of vegetables and taking a prenatal (Rainbow Light brand, if it matters) was enough.
Truly not trying to be snitty, just processing . . .
There are many of us here asking similar questions. There are many problems in babies that are linked to the nutrition of the mother and that is a very hard thing to face learning it after the fact. There should be a whole MDC club centered around this. Make sure you and your son get a very nutrient-dense diet. That's what you can do now and you could be pleasantly surprised with the progress that he shows.

Edited to add: it's impossible to know if your diet was the cause. Adding more nutrition to your diet will help regardless of the cause of your son's condition.

Amanda

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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