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#1 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's officially march! I have a question for you ladies...Does stock provide B-12? It seems like it should, but I don't know for sure...Oh, and Jane, I finished N&PD! It confused me further. Sigh. Not that it was confusing-it wasn't. IT just left my mind with alot of placed to wander. I liked it alot though. Anyone else feel this way?
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#2 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 09:23 PM
 
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I'm glad you got the book!
Group question: what is your favorite part in the WAP book?

I loved hearing about the Swiss. I really connected with them and their living and diet situation. Ahhh how would it be.
The book really opened my eyes to what it really means to be healthy. It's a whole new perspective now.

firefaery, I still get confused too. Sometimes I feel so sure about the ideal, then something will happen to totally shake things up. But from reading his book, it was totally ingrained in me that the MOST important thing is not to eat the modern foods. All the different groups had such varied diets and thrived! It was only when the modern foods were introduced that degeneration took place. : It's so hard living in our modern day and try to be healthy!
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#3 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 09:46 PM
 
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I never waded through the entire February thread so I am glad there is a new one

Question for you hardcore NTers (especially recovering vegans):

What do you do about restaurants and eating out of the house (like parties, BBQs, staying with relatives). Do you just let it go and eat what is available? Can you handle watching your kids eat processed cheese or lunchmeat? As a VERY recent ex-vegan, I am starting to realize that I latch on to food ideals and cannot let go. We are slowly introducing eggs and dairy but only organic, raw (for milk), and from sources that I know for certain with my own eyes are treating their animals as well as I treat my cats. That is the only way I can get over myself. But now that we eat these things, I can see the slippery slope into bday ice cream and grandma's meatballs....none of which are from ethical sources or have any nutritional value in my mind. Being vegan gave us an "excuse" to pass on these foods without any emotion. Now saying "we don't eat trans fats, factory farmed, pastuarized, name your evil...." is just gonna make people mad and/or hurt.

My idea is that we will eat "vegan" in restaurants as we are used to it and know the lingo. The food is not really good for us. Mostly white pasta or white bread stuff with sad looking salads. But it gets us through the social obligation or nourishes us enough to get through vacation or whatever. But I think it is going to be very sticky at relative's houses or parties and such. I don't want to hurt people's feelings but i cannot fathom eating factory farmed animal products. Should I get over this? Obviously after being vegan for 5 years I have not "saved the world". Is poo-pooing that burger really worth the hurt and snide comments?

OK, now repeat that entire question with a twist.... We travel a great deal to people's houses. We are at their mercy for food most of the time. We also have a very active community of friends and are potlucking, dinner partying, BBQing, camping, etc.... together at least once a week and up to 4 nights week in the summer. This is not a once-in-a-while situation for us. Our diet coud be greatly effected if we just "let it go" for these occasions. All of thes people have been super understanding of our vegan thing. But I think this is different. Asking people to respect this is asking them to spend much more money and prepare food much differently than they are used to. How should we handle it?
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#4 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 09:52 PM
 
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Subscribing.
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#5 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 10:27 PM
 
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I am right there with you, Yooper! We do not eat out all that much now, but are planning a month long visit to family this summer.

Subscribing and anxiously awaiting suggestions!
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#6 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yooper, no suggestions, just support. We are there too. Newly not-vegan and hard to navigate the world. So far I'm doing just what you are describing...we eat vegan when we are out. We were very healthy vegans...fresh fruit and veggies, almost no grains, nuts and seeds. We didn't do "convenience foods" for the most part. Our vice was Trader Joes gluten Free, dairy free, egg free waffles. They were refined CRAP, but a special treat. (It is HARD to be a gf vegan!) It's not much different, it's just HOW WE EAT. It hasn't been that long, but it's okay so far. I just have alot of food packed before we go anywhere and don't expect anyone to do anything else for us. I see it as my opportunity to let other's explore, and since I don't have a deprived mindset it doesn't feel like the kids feel that way either. They genuinely (at this point) aren't interested in the other's "indulgences."

I loved reading about the Swiss and the Irish. I felt the same way...what a world! It's really hard for me because the vegan thing still makes sense to me from a health perspective. I'm fine doing the stocks (still curious about the B-12 factor) and some raw fish here and there. I've done some beef (pastured) but I'm not sure how I feel about it. My balance at this point is to do stocks almost every day and meat at one meal a week at least. I haven't yet been able to do more than three meals a week. I do have eggs though...2-4 a week. Oh, and butter and CLO every day. And same thing as Yooper-I know my providers. The thing that gets me the most is the intestinal tract thing. Ours just doesn't resemble a carnivores at all. So I figure by eating meat in small quantities I'm covering my bases. I get that all traditional cultures ate some form, and this is how I integrate it right now. Who knows what may change with more reading.


Modern foods definitely are evil. I have found substitutes for everything though, and I find that since I haven't had sugar in so long I just don't want it. I crave fruit for my sweet tooth. That's pretty great. I also make a FABULOUS raw pie that is totally NT compatible-who needs refined anything? Nice to be here to get more info from you smart gals.
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#7 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 10:53 PM
 
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We are just as strict, if not moreso, about our food choices as we were when we were Vegan and Veg.

We don't eat any non-organic animal products. When we eat at restaurants we typically eat vegan or macro. Dd eats the same as us. I will never be cool with her eating processed foods. That includes all processed foods to a certain degree.

We are really committed to eating from scratch and that includes when we eat out. Rarely do we eat at chain restaurants, opting for locally owned and operated places that support local growers and offer organic choices.

When we eat at people's houses we try to eat as simply as we can. We potluck a lot, even with family. Plus our friends and family prepare simple foods and we are lucky enough to have people around us who eat very much the same and are committed to organics as we are.

If someone has a really different food philosophy and/or eats really differently from us then we focus on having time with them that doesn't involve eating a meal together.

I try not to get overwhelmed by the prospect of eating away from home and away from our comfort zone. There are certain things I can't comprise on. Non-organic animal products, white sugar products, store bought condiments and processed foods, foods with trans-fats, etc. But if someone has prepared a meal from scratch such as veggie chilli, I am not going to worry about whether they soaked the beans or not since I can digest them without distress either way, soaked or not.

I hope this helps a little! I kind of went on a tangent!!

In a nutshell, the concerns that I had for the environment while I was eating within a vegan diet have not changed. If anything they have amblified and become more dynamic. What finally got me to eat meat, other than fish was my experience last Christmas. My dh and I had been eating fish for about 5 years. My folks wanted to make us Christmas dinner and bought a wild salmon since we are opposed to farmed. I was surprised they could find wild salmon in our land locked province at christmas time and they said it was from China.

China?!?!

I thought to myself, what is more sustainable... A fish shipped from China or a pasture raised turkey that is ethically butchered to which I will make stock and create several meals from. That is raised and butchered 90 minutes from where I live and that lives an organic life on farm roaming free.

We had turkey that year!!
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#8 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We posted at the same time...great story mountain mom!
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#9 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 11:39 PM
 
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subscribing...

We have successfully done three NT dinners this week, although I can't say the kids have ate a lot of it. I'm still getting whines for cereal in the morning despite the offers of pancakes, waffles, eggs etc. But it's getting less. I'm not sure about the whole going out thing either. I try to choose simple foods but it isn't always easy. Luckily dp and I agree we'd rather spend the money on a good organic chicken than a crappy $5 pizza from down the street.

Oh and we're getting raw milk for the first time next week after some diligent searching. We're pretty excited to say the least.
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#10 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 11:50 PM
 
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From previous month's thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
So going by that, nothing above 116? I wonder what the 180 number is...more precisely how they measure it? I have been reading that you start loosing enzymes (in veggies and things) around 115-but they never give an upper limit. It's very interesting-to me at least
180 means all pathogenic bacteria and enzymes are killed. How they measure what?
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#11 of 422 Old 03-01-2006, 11:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
Does stock provide B-12? It seems like it should, but I don't know for sure
This article says there is evidence it's destoyed by boiling
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...itaminb12.html
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#12 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 12:04 AM
 
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My favorite parts about N&PD...

Yes it makes me wonder so much more and completely frustrates me that there are not hordes of scientists testing these findings for the last 70 years!!

Of course my fave is the whole nostril/jaw thing which totally FASCINATES me!

For example, how can my good friend who is a white bread vegetarian have 2 kids with great wide palates but pinched nostrils? And I get a round nostil wide face boy with spacing issues on his bottom teeth? (Actually DS got DH's wide face and my small mouth and chin I think.) I'm horrible lately with peering intently at people's faces...

The connections made between birth defects and vitamin/mineral deficiencies is extraordinary. And mental deficiencies as well. I'll never ever look at food the same way again.

It also makes me want to be part of a modern team that goes into schools and teaches WAP nutrition and shows slides. Remember those stories, I loved that too.
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#13 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 12:11 AM
 
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Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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#14 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 12:18 AM
 
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Jane, I'm into dental arches.
Oh, I also thought that the lack of crime and mental problems is telling, too. Nutrition is just so important!

Firefaery, if you are thinking about doing a raw diet, why not add raw dairy and eggs to cover the bases? I've thought about doing that before, but I always get hung up on all the vegetables that are so much better cooked. I admit, I've gotten sucked into the raw craze at times. I don't know about the b-12 in those things, but you could always add in raw liver.
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#15 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 12:41 AM
 
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well today was day one of my makers diet journey. went pretty well except for a few sneaked m&ms from my dd. The rest of my day was mostly veggies, lentils and some organic beef for dinner.
For tomorrow I have some lentils soaking and some almonds drying in the oven.Im glad I had my microwave so that I could soak everything today and not have my dd get into all of it. I also am going to have my first goat milk kefir tomorrow.
I have a question about the really raw honey. I just got some for the first time. the honeycomb and stuff on top...do you eat it or scoop it off and get rid of it?
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#16 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 12:50 AM
 
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oh man--i'm already behind this month!

i am worried about traveling too. i'm already planning a grocery list of essential purchaseable nonperishable things we can get a friend to pick up for us (from a wholefoods) for a trip we're making in may. she'll think i'm carzy, be she's used to that so she'll do it. but part of that trip is a wedding. and more than the three hour drive to the wedding with girls who hate restrictions of any sort (especially car seats), or making it through the church ceremony with twin toddlers, i'm dreading how i'll feel after eating the dinner at the wedding.

i never liked to eat out much anyway; now i won't. however, there is a nice 98% organic restaurant my dad's taking us to sunday if i can get reservations. (i don't think it's difficult; i just keep forgetting to call). i am ecited for this like i have never been about a restaurant in my life. cooler than eating at the real mama leoni's in ny as a pre-teenager. i am such a dork. but i cannot eat outside of my house now almost anywhere else. i'm going to order liver if they have it to see if i can stand it. dh will eat it (i think) if it's too much. he is loving this "diet"; he misses ixe xream so i buy him organic choc bars sometimes, but that's about all our cheating. oh, and still waiting on raw milk........

JaneS--i stare at people's faces on the subway all the time, trying to guess their diets.......
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#17 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have no problem doing raw eggs or liver...I just have to figure out how to do them! I make aioli-but that's a teeny tiny use of egg. How else can I incorporate it? The liver sketches me out a bit, but my nutritionist is really for it as long as it's from an organic pastured animal. I have access to that, so I can try it. I did cook some (in the dumplings!) but I'd prefer it raw if I can find a way. I did raw milk for a bit. Even raw yogurt, we just don't tolerate it at all. Raw works for me because there are NO veggies that taste better cooked to me. One of my favorite salads is a raw kale and cabbage salad. MMMMMMMMM.

I eat the honeycomb.

Jane: thanks for the link. I had a feeling. I was wondering how they measure the enzyme content? Don't really need an answer, just wondering out loud... And I think that would be a great program! And I feel the same about the birth defects. It's so sad and scary
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#18 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 02:48 AM
 
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Does anyone have any thoughts on what to do with chicken jello? There is always so much left after I make a chicken, and it seems wrong to throw it away.
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#19 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 03:19 AM
 
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2babybees...I thought I'd share this recipe that was posted on the local WAP chapter yahoo group I go on. It's for her original NT-ized cereal recipe:

DIANE’S OATMEAL CEREAL

5 cups oatmeal + 4 cups hot filtered water
5 tbsp yogurt
½ cup coconut oil
¼ cup butter
¾ cup honey
fruit(s) of choice (4-5 very ripe bananas, 2 cups raisins, etc)
crispy nuts of choice, chopped
cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg to taste

Mix water, oatmeal, and yogurt in bowl; cover and let sit @ room temperature for 24 hours; Blend in remaining ingredients with your hands after soaking; Spread ¼ inch thick in two jelly roll pans lined with parchment paper; place in 200 degree oven and cook 6-12 hours or until crisp; Cool; break into bite-size pieces, store in airtight container at room temperature.

Serve with cold milk or over yoghurt.


It looks absolutely awesome. I haven't made it yet but plan to soon. Doesn't it sound yummy?

Firefaery, raw eggs or egg yolk you can add to any kind of smoothie you may eat or any veggie/fruit juices even. For the raw liver, have you tried a Pottenger Liver Cocktail or Raw Liver Drink from NT? Let me know if you need the recipes for those.

As far as eating out or at family's house etc, I tend to cave under the social pressure. I really try to stick with whatever is offered that is the better choice...which usually sends up being salad or fruit. I'm also always lugging a that usually has some organic fruits and veggies, nuts, half gallon of raw milk or some kefir, pastured eggs, etc. Between what they offer and what I have I can usually do okay.

I am making NT ketchup for the first time. I used kefir whey in it. My milk grains that I've been reviving have started making decent kefir after about 5 days. It was just a small amount and I'm increasing the milk with the current batch...but I had enough to strain and have a little tiny bit of kefir cheese and enough whey for the ketchup.

I'm having so much fun with my milk and water kefir grains. I can't wait until the milk grains start kicking up production to make enough kefir for daily smoothies. I'm loving the water grains, I've been trying different things with them. I really love putting them in straight apple juice, it's been my fav so far. I've tried grape and I didn't like it too well. I tried the cream soda recipe from EFLF and didn't like it either. Orange juice is pretty good, I mixed some with water, lemon slices and star anise. I'm becoming a kefir maniac

 

 
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#20 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd love the recipes. Thanks for such a speedy reply!
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#21 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 10:05 AM
 
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Subbing!

I am not as good at it as Mountain Mom, but I try to do the same thing when eating away from home. I will eat vegan when I am unsure about the food.

April best of luck with the ketchup! I made the mayonnaise last week and it's delicious! I am going to make curried chicken salad with it over the weekend.

I made a double batch of ginger carrots. I have to say they are my favorite right now.
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#22 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 02:10 PM
 
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Subbing.

Momma to the monkeys three
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#23 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 02:34 PM
 
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So how many of you have ever had a $200 grocery bill for the month?

How much do you all spend on groceries?

We are really trying to keep our grocery bill less than $200 a week and I saw a thread in mindful home management where there were a few users that are spending $200 a MONTH on food and that includes a family that has two teenage boys!

I am on a mission now. So how much do you all spend?
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#24 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 02:41 PM
 
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I spend about 300-400 a month for two adults. I used to spend about 30-50 a week but that was on conventional products with very few organics.

DH and I are students and we live on a limited quarterly budget but we cut other places and keep the lion's share of flex money for food. We cut entertainment, eating out and frivilous expenses (I literally had a latte factor).
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#25 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 03:04 PM
 
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Yooper: congrats on the name change!

To be quite honest, after my diet change I still ate vegan out of the house. Did that for a loooong time. Then after that, I started including fish with the reasoning that it was easier to find wild fish than pastured animal product since we live on the coast, and would try to stay wild caught though sometimes at family gatherings and potlucks I was not sure if it was farmed or not (at restaurants you can pretty much just ask if it is wild or not). This is pretty much how it has stayed since then. In moments of desperation I have slid to organic but not pastured animal products, though I don't eat non-pastured eggs as I find them to taste disgusting. Since I have cut out most grains, beans, and dairy it's been a rough ride staying vegan while eating out.

I will admit that it is definitely difficult to keep those restrictions in place. I found it easiest to tell people to just stick to fish and veggies. Though that does not work so well if you live inland, in that case I'd probably just stay vegan while eating out unless I knew of a place that used pastured animal products. We are still quite strict on packaged and processed foods as well.

re: kids and food
We have done our best to tell DD that things like store ice cream and candy are just plain junk (we do make our own homemade ice cream, cultured and low-sugar of course). And we mean it, with great conviction in our voices, and we don't eat them ourselves when DD is not looking. We have explained the difference between food that makes healthy bodies and food that makes people sick, and she is pretty good about not wanting to eat junk food. Also since we don't keep a lot of sugar in the house she is not used to really sugary foods and if she does get a bit of birthday cake then she will usually only eat a few bites and then leave it. So for some things we will under no circumstances let her eat (like candy) with reasons why, and other things like homemade birthday cakes at friend's houses we let her self-regulate, also with the warning that it's probably a bit too sweet. There is no way she will ever eat Lunchables or fast food with my knowledge.

MountainMom: ITA!
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#26 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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$150 a week, but it's a struggle. We have no money and no savings, but this is what's important to us. We won't own a home anytime soon, but we hopefully won't be needing doctors either!
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#27 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 03:58 PM
 
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toraji-I would love your recipe for ice cream. we have made it before, but it was loaded with sugar. It would be great to make it this summer again (without so much sugar)

We probably spend around $150 a week for 2 adults and 2 kids (the other child is still all mommy milk)
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#28 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 04:10 PM
 
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I have a question for those that have soaked/dried nuts. If you dry them and they are still a little soggy in the middle, does that mean they need to dry longer, or is that how they are supposed to be? Some of mine were and some werent. this is the first time I have done it but wasnt sure how they were supposed to turn out. It sounded like in the NT book that they would be crispy throughout.

BTW it was almonds that I soaked/dried
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#29 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 04:35 PM
 
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$100 or less per week, but we raised our own beef, so I'm not buying any of that in the store.

Re: crispy nuts...I just dehydrate the heck out of them until they're crispy all the way through.

Momma to the monkeys three
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#30 of 422 Old 03-02-2006, 05:01 PM
 
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firefaery here are those recipes:

Pottenger Liver Cocktail
Makes 1 cup

1 small chunk pasture-fed beef or lamb liver, frozen at least 14 days
4-6oz tomato juice
dash of tabasco sauce
squeeze of lime juice
1 TBS whey

Grate liver finely to obtain about 1-2 tsps. Mix with tomato juice, whey and seasonings. Drink immediately.

Raw Liver Drink
Makes 1 cup

1/4 pound raw beef liver, frozen at least 14 days
1/2 cup cold water
pinch sea salt
juice of 1 lime
1/2 cup freshly squeezed orange juice
1 tsp sucanat (optional)
1 TBS whey

Enjoy

 

 
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