Have you all seen this innovation in bread making??!! - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 189 Old 11-25-2006, 05:22 PM
 
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Yitlan- Thank you sooo much for posting this recipe! I just pulled my first loaf out of the oven, and it is hands down the best bread I have ever made! Over half of it is gone already.

I posted a pic and some of the details on my blog. If anyone wants to check it out just click the link in my sig line!
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#62 of 189 Old 11-25-2006, 07:09 PM
 
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Your's looks great Hibou! I just had to post also that I loved your Halloween dinner!

Deb
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#63 of 189 Old 11-25-2006, 07:23 PM
 
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Your's looks great Hibou! I just had to post also that I loved your Halloween dinner!

Deb
thanks!
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#64 of 189 Old 11-28-2006, 07:06 PM
 
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Okay, I just had to post one more pic!
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#65 of 189 Old 11-28-2006, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow! looks great everyone. I can't believe how consistently good mine has been turning out. I've been doing an almost 24 hour water/kefir mix and it's been absolutely fantastic. Yum!

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#66 of 189 Old 11-28-2006, 07:17 PM
 
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I'm glad you did! I'm making this today and the crock container idea is perfect!
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#67 of 189 Old 11-28-2006, 07:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by yitlan View Post
I can't believe how consistently good mine has been turning out. I've been doing an almost 24 hour water/kefir mix and it's been absolutely fantastic. Yum!

I let my last loaf soak for probably 36 hours (we got stranded in a snowstorm in the city and couldn't make it home!)- so I had started it Sunday afternoon, and just finished it at 3 o'clock today (tuesday). Just goes to show how forgiving this recipe is!

Oh, and while we were stranded (stayed at my inlaws) my MIL gave me 2 brand new stoneware casserole dishes with lids- so now I can make several loaves at a time!
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#68 of 189 Old 11-28-2006, 10:58 PM
 
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I made it again because my DH was out of town when I did the first one and he didn't believe me when I said it was better than the artisan bakery's. He's a beliver now! I'm gonna use the crocks from my crockpots too because I saw someone had made hoagie rolls with her dough and thought that was a great idea.


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#69 of 189 Old 11-29-2006, 02:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by yitlan View Post
Wow! looks great everyone. I can't believe how consistently good mine has been turning out. I've been doing an almost 24 hour water/kefir mix and it's been absolutely fantastic. Yum!
yitlan,

What's your water/kefir ratio? Also, did you have to increase the amount of yeast? Thanks!

myCelia
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#70 of 189 Old 11-29-2006, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yitlan,
What's your water/kefir ratio? Also, did you have to increase the amount of yeast? Thanks!
myCelia
I have done half kefir/half water (so approx 3/4 cup, give or take) of each without affecting flavor at all. You could probably do more kefir with no problem, but that's what I've done so far. And no increase in the yeast.

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#71 of 189 Old 11-29-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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Has anyone tried doubling this recipe yet? Any hints? I made a triple batch of dough today. Will bake it tomorrow.
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#72 of 189 Old 11-29-2006, 08:52 PM
 
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I doubled it. It turned out okay, but getting it into the pot wasn't quite so graceful. It kind of rises out not up on the towel, so, it was much wider than the pot. I thought next time I tried it, I would try to let it rise in the bowl again (similar sized bowl to pot). Maybe the towel in the bowl? Though, if going the bowl route, it might not stick as bad as to the towel, but then, the towel lets you guide the dough with your hand into the pot--but lemme tell ya, there wasn't a whole lot of guiding going on with that big blob of dough. I was just glad to get it in the pot. Still tasted fine, though. Maybe a little denser than my first batch, but still moist and fluffy.
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#73 of 189 Old 11-30-2006, 12:13 PM
 
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I just found this thread!

I lloooove the recipe (which I had seen on nytimes sometime back). We have been making this bread at leat 10 times by now and can't get enough of it.

1.5cups seems almost too much, so I use 1.25-1.3 cups usually. The warmer the kitchen, the less time it needs to rise. I don't use plastic wrap at all for the 15min rise, but just let it sit on the counter, covered with a kitchen towl.

Also I have been experimenting quite a bit and made variations on the original recipe:

*I have added herbs, like ramson or in another batch a mixture of parsley, nettles, oregano and more, both was really nice.

*Also I have added malt, which added a nice flavour.

*I have substituted the liquid with milk, partially yogurt, beer (did not rise as well, but tasted great).

*I have substitude half a cup of white flour with whole weat, and it was great.

*I had double the recipe, but just baked two breads instead of one.

*Regarding baking - I don't have a form with a closed lid, so I used a pie form an just put another metal springform on top, which worked fine.


My conclusions are: get creative, be experimental - the dough/recipe is really forgiving, and even if it might not rise well, it still tastes great (and is soo much cheaper than buying artesian bread and easier than many other knead intensive bread recipes).

Next thing I will try the sourdough variation!
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#74 of 189 Old 11-30-2006, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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*I have added herbs, like ramson or in another batch a mixture of parsley, nettles, oregano and more, both was really nice.
At what stage do you do this? Do you have to do anything else differently when you add herbs?

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#75 of 189 Old 11-30-2006, 01:06 PM
 
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At what stage do you do this? Do you have to do anything else differently when you add herbs?
I add at the first stage with the dry ingredients before adding the water. I added about 2-3 teaspoons. The more the greener the bread will be
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#76 of 189 Old 11-30-2006, 01:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Merilin View Post
I just found this thread!

I lloooove the recipe (which I had seen on nytimes sometime back). We have been making this bread at leat 10 times by now and can't get enough of it.

1.5cups seems almost too much, so I use 1.25-1.3 cups usually. The warmer the kitchen, the less time it needs to rise. I don't use plastic wrap at all for the 15min rise, but just let it sit on the counter, covered with a kitchen towl.

Also I have been experimenting quite a bit and made variations on the original recipe:

*I have added herbs, like ramson or in another batch a mixture of parsley, nettles, oregano and more, both was really nice.

*Also I have added malt, which added a nice flavour.

*I have substituted the liquid with milk, partially yogurt, beer (did not rise as well, but tasted great).

*I have substitude half a cup of white flour with whole weat, and it was great.

*I had double the recipe, but just baked two breads instead of one.

*Regarding baking - I don't have a form with a closed lid, so I used a pie form an just put another metal springform on top, which worked fine.


My conclusions are: get creative, be experimental - the dough/recipe is really forgiving, and even if it might not rise well, it still tastes great (and is soo much cheaper than buying artesian bread and easier than many other knead intensive bread recipes).

Next thing I will try the sourdough variation!
Those are great ideas!! I love the herb one!

Deb
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#77 of 189 Old 11-30-2006, 02:16 PM
 
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I thought next time I tried it, I would try to let it rise in the bowl again (similar sized bowl to pot). Maybe the towel in the bowl?
The first time I made it, I let it rise in a bowl on a sheet of waxed paper. It worked really well, and transferred nicely. I have been using the waxed paper dusted with flour rather than a tea towel.

Anyways, I just finished my triple batch. For the second "rising" I divided it into 3 loaves. It turned out great. The only problem was that my new free stoneware was too shallow: , so 2 of the loaves have little "dips" on their tops, which doesn't look as nice. I will have to start looking at second hand stores. I was also thinking I might buy one of those deep enamel pots that you use for camping, but they are a little more expensive.
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#78 of 189 Old 11-30-2006, 04:30 PM
 
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It doesn't have to be enameled. I baked mine in a regular cast iron pot.
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#79 of 189 Old 12-07-2006, 03:23 PM
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There's an update article now: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/di...=1&oref=slogin

BTW, my hubby has made 4 loaves now with this method, all different, all amazingly wonderful. He did sourdough 100% whole wheat, yeasted 100% white spelt, and two that were yeasted 50/50 white spelt and wholegrain hard white wheat flour, one with only water as liquid and one with half fil mjolk (a cultured milk, similar to kefir) as liquid. The first two (the sourdough and the white spelt) didn't rise all that well, we think because they were a bit too wet and their vessels a bit too large in diameter, but they tasted fabulous. The second two rose beautifully, he adjusted for those two factors (dough consistency and vessel size). When we get more sprouted flour, we're going to try it with that and see what happens, and continue experimenting with the recipe with 100% whole grain (with the occasional white loaf thrown in there for a junk food fix, it was soooooo good!). He's using a silicone mat under the bread instead of a towel, it slides right off cleanly.

Is anyone else fascinated with the cultural implications of what seems to be the evolution of a new way of making bread? I know it's built on the methods and knowledge of others, Jim Lahey probably didn't exactly invent the whole thing, but it seems like a blossoming of a new way of thinking about something that humans have been doing for thousands of years. I find it very interesting to consider that concept in relation to subjects other than bread-making.

The one problem I see with this method is that it's causing me to eat way too much bread.

There is no secret ingredient.
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#80 of 189 Old 12-12-2006, 11:08 AM
 
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This is the best bread! I've made it three times already and each time it turns out wonderfully. What I have learned with my 50/50 water/kefir mod. is that the 14 hour rise was the best. 12 hours was alright, but 18 hours resulted in a flatter bread, although it still tasted great.

I'm wondering if the difference with the amount of rise was due to the timing or the freshness of my kefir. With the 14-hour bread, I used day-old kefir. The 18-hour bread had week-old kefir.

myCelia
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#81 of 189 Old 12-12-2006, 01:42 PM
 
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Is anyone else fascinated with the cultural implications of what seems to be the evolution of a new way of making bread? I know it's built on the methods and knowledge of others, Jim Lahey probably didn't exactly invent the whole thing, but it seems like a blossoming of a new way of thinking about something that humans have been doing for thousands of years. I find it very interesting to consider that concept in relation to subjects other than bread-making.

The one problem I see with this method is that it's causing me to eat way too much bread.
Yes, we seem to be eating more bread too.

To be honest, I am a little "uncomfortable" about the idea that this could be an evolution in breadmaking. I can't put my finger on why. I just keep thinking, nah, it has to have been done before. Am I just in denial?
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#82 of 189 Old 12-12-2006, 10:40 PM
 
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It's in one of my cookbooks, the author calls it the yeast starter method. I've had the cookbook for years.
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#83 of 189 Old 12-13-2006, 02:27 PM
 
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The innovations is that he through out the bread maker!!! I have been making bread in a bowl with a wooden spoon for years and people I know are always thinking it is difficult. "But a breadmaker is so easy." But a breadmaker makes bread that does not taste as good, the crumb is not as good, and the process does not touch your soul!

This "innovation" allows people to make bread like ancestors did. Put whole foods on the table without a machine.

And if it take putting the label "innovation" on it, I am all for it!

Plus it makes really good artisan bread
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#84 of 189 Old 12-13-2006, 05:22 PM
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I've seen plenty of recipes for yeast-starter, long-rise breads, but what is different with this method from any I knew of before was keeping the dough so wet, not kneading at all, using only time to develop the gluten, and baking it so wet, in a covered pot and then uncovered. Like I said, I'm sure the guy in the NYT article didn't invent this, but I think it's great he's put together the pieces and got it out there for so many people. This seems outside what has been the standard homemade bread paradigm (not talking about bread machines), and not the same as "commercial" artisan bread methods that are baked in steam-injected ovens and not in covered pots. I know a lot of people who bake bread at home, and none of them knew of a recipe that put all these pieces together in this way for the home baker. Someone mentioned a similar recipe is in CookWise, but I have that book and can't find any bread recipe that involves such a wet dough, no kneading, cooking covered for part of the time. Provacativa, what cookbook do you have that has a recipe like this?

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#85 of 189 Old 12-13-2006, 07:48 PM
 
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I'm excited to try this recipe. I mixed it up (the first steps) and its not THAT wet, I mean its wetter than normal bread dough but it does still hold a ball shape. Is that okay?

Has anyone had to tinker with the water to flour ratio when using fresh ground whole wheat?
should it be wetter?
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#86 of 189 Old 12-13-2006, 10:57 PM
 
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Ditto on having heard of long-rise low yeast breads. From what I can tell, I think there are two separate "innovations" here. The first is the covered pot--but that's just mimicking a bread oven, I think. That's why we're getting that artisan-worthy crust. I suspect you could make a traditional loaf, maybe with a bit more water so as to get some good steam, and cook it enclosed and get the same results.

The other innovation, however, is the no-kneading aspect. And that I have never heard of. I get a little freaked, too, thinking that so many eons of human history have gone by without anyone figuring this out.
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#87 of 189 Old 12-14-2006, 03:25 AM
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The other innovation, however, is the no-kneading aspect. And that I have never heard of. I get a little freaked, too, thinking that so many eons of human history have gone by without anyone figuring this out.
I'm sure other people must have had it figured out (the no kneading part, letting time develop the gluten exclusively), but the fact that such an easy and flexible method of making really outstanding bread hasn't been at the top of the list in the home-baking consciousness is what gets me. Even if this exact same procedure has been published in books or whatnot, why the heck hasn't it been more well known? I mean, something that makes a superior loaf of bread of the chewy yet tender and moist crumb and crackly, golden crust variety, that is so absurdly easy to make at home with common tools, should have been trumpted from the rooftops at some point, wouldn't you think? Has this method been in widespread traditional use by home bakers in other countries, and it's just us here in the Wonderbread US who've had our heads in the sand? (I mean the whole thing, not just the long-rise part.) It is a little bit freaky, and an interesting comment on our society at least, and probably on humanity in general.

Has anyone tried it yet with sprouted flour?

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#88 of 189 Old 12-14-2006, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Has anyone tried it yet with sprouted flour?
No. The sprouted flour I buy costs so much more and if I'm just going to be soaking it anyway..... But it might be worth a try for experiment's sake. Anyone else?

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#89 of 189 Old 12-14-2006, 03:29 PM
 
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I have two loaves started and can't wait until tomorrow to see how they turn out!

The first loaf is 100% whole wheat. The second loaf is 1/3 wheat flour, 2/3 unbleached flour with rosemary, basil, thyme and oregano added. I'm going to put a bit of garlic powder and parmesan on top when I bake it.

My pot is an 8-inch round cast iron dutch oven.
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I'm excited to try this recipe. I mixed it up (the first steps) and its not THAT wet, I mean its wetter than normal bread dough but it does still hold a ball shape. Is that okay?

Has anyone had to tinker with the water to flour ratio when using fresh ground whole wheat?
should it be wetter?
I'm curious about this as well. My SIL brought me some fresh ground flour from a water-powered mill that they visited recently (they grind the flour as you watch) and the whole wheat loaf I made wasn't nearly as wet as the one using unbleached flour.

Jessica, wife of Marc and Momma to Nikolai (7) and Nathaniel (6).  Expecting Olivia in August! 

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#90 of 189 Old 12-14-2006, 03:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NettleSongMama View Post
I'm excited to try this recipe. I mixed it up (the first steps) and its not THAT wet, I mean its wetter than normal bread dough but it does still hold a ball shape. Is that okay?

Has anyone had to tinker with the water to flour ratio when using fresh ground whole wheat?
should it be wetter?

Mine usually holds it's shape sorta. At first I expected a gooey mess, but it's more like really sticky dough.

I have been really un-precise with my measuring and this bread turns out every time.
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