Have you all seen this innovation in bread making??!! - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-09-2006, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The article with photos:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/di...tml?ref=dining

OK, I found a step-by-step guide!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/di...gg&oref=slogin
Apparently the links are no longer valid. To see recipe, here's the post:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=1#post6577205


So, do you all think we can use regular (meaning unsoaked, unsprouted) flour for this? Is this enough fermentation? I am not a baker and making my own bread is something I haven't seen fit to do yet (except in my bread maker with sprouted flour). But this maybe I could do!

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:50 PM
 
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that looks great! though i'd like to convert it to using a sourdough starter instead of the yeast...

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Old 11-09-2006, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An expert sourdough baker in my chapter is going to try this with sourdough. If I hear how it goes for her, I'll report back. I'm trying it with spelt first and we'll see how it goes.

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Old 11-09-2006, 06:21 PM
 
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The web addresses aren't working for me. Is there someone who can get the pages up that can tinyurl it? Or is there a name of the technique that I can search for...
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, I edited the URLs. Not sure what happened there. See if that works or google "Jim Lahey bread" to find these.

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Old 11-09-2006, 06:39 PM
 
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The addresses work now just fine - I had tried cutting and pasting but something was a little bit wonky. Thanks!
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:01 PM
 
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I was thinking of posting this very same thing. I haven't had much success witn sourdough but I thought I would give this recipe a try. I am curious as to other's experiences with this recipe.
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have a batch soaking now, but an avid baker in my group says soaking it in kefir/yogurt/buttermilk instead of water would also work. So that would help in case anyone feels the fermentation isn't enough to neutralize the phytates. I'll bake mine tomorrow and let you know how it turns out.

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Old 11-09-2006, 09:57 PM
 
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if it's soaked for 24 hours, would it matter that there was yeast instead of sourdough? I thought the bad thing about yeast is that it was fast and so there was no fermentation? I have NEVER made bread and so have no idea what I'm talking about. Sourdough intimidates me, so I really WANT this to be just as good. I wonder if you could leave this bread even longer than 24 hours, and it would be even better...
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Old 11-09-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kbchavez View Post
if it's soaked for 24 hours, would it matter that there was yeast instead of sourdough?
I was thinking the same thing.

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Old 11-09-2006, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by kbchavez View Post
if it's soaked for 24 hours, would it matter that there was yeast instead of sourdough?
I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean would the negative effects of yeast be negated by the soaking and fermenting? I really don't know the science behind it all, so I'm reluctant to answer. The amount of yeast is quite small compared to most other recipes (esp. the bread machine recipes) and we don't have yeast issues here, so it's worth a try for us to get easy, fresh bread!

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Old 11-10-2006, 02:19 AM
 
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One of my favorite cookbooks, Cookwise, has a similar recipe. The author, Shirley Corriher, also says that whey interferes with yeast, so you might need more, and that the high acid environment of a kefir soak or similar would also inhibit the baker's yeast s. cervisae (not sure how to spell that).
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, so far my dough is rather liquidy. I'm not able to form it into a ball. I poured it on the counter and it went everywhere! So, I scooped it up and beat it a few times in lieu of "folding over." Could be because it wasn't warm all night in my house. We had a warm day yesterday. It's been more than 18 hours, too. So I'm going to let it sit awhile and watch it. I definitely can't shape it into a ball right now! There's the update.

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Old 11-10-2006, 01:46 PM
 
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:02 PM
 
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this is intriguing.

the phytates should be broken down

sorry, sick boy on lap. need emoticon for that

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Old 11-10-2006, 03:28 PM
 
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it says in the recipe to use a 6 qt pot. I have a 4 1/2 qt. le creuset. Think this will work? I suppose I could try to make a smaller loaf. Those pots are expensive, so I don't want to buy another one just for bread... YKWIM?
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:33 PM
 
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I did make this bread. Baked it last night. It is a very nice plain artisan type bread. The flavor REALLY depends on the quality of the flour. Also, with the humidity I live with, I would cut the water back 1/4-1/2 cup. The dough was the consitency of VERY thick pancake batter.

The bread itself (what came off the cloth which I could bake ) was very moist and nicely golden. The crust crackled as it cooled. The crumb was nicely porous with large holes, very artisan style. It was a nice way to bake when I do not have professional steam.

I have a 6 quart Le Crueset but the 4 1/2 quart should work fine.

I am going to try it next with sourdough. It is what we have been enjoying the most at home.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Also, with the humidity I live with, I would cut the water back 1/4-1/2 cup. The dough was the consitency of VERY thick pancake batter.
Yes, I just called my bread expert friend to find out why my dough is so thin. Exactly like you describe. She said it probably started out too watery to begin with and she suggested I add flour and some more salt and let it sit out more to ferment. Like most things traditional, the first steps seem to be experiments!

Thanks for sharing your results ladywolf! Sounds quite yummy!

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Old 11-10-2006, 03:46 PM
 
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:34 PM
 
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I was thinking that more salt would be good, 2 teaspoons per loaf like most artisan breads.
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Old 11-11-2006, 02:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I made my first loaf. After adding flour and salt and letting it sit for a bit, but not as long as recommended by my friend, I did see it rise some and baked it up. It came up flat (I did want to let it sit longer, but won't have time to deal with it tomorrow), but GOOD. I also only had a flat stoneware thing to bake it in. I will try it in something smaller or divide it between bread pans.

So, despite being flat, the pluses: great texture, great crust, great taste. Dh LOVES it and he's the bread guy around here. So.....I am definitely going to try again this weekend and keep experimenting!

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Old 11-11-2006, 02:16 PM
 
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I wish I could count.

Dh and I are taking a picnic lunch to share with a friend and his children. His wife has been with his baby whose been in the hospital for 9 mos! Anyway, I thought fresh baked bread would be a yummy addition (the kind of thing their mom used to do but obviously can't).

Well, I thought I would bake it early tommorow morning before mass, so I threw it together this morning. That equals 24 hours, not 18. In 18 it will be VERY early--like 2 am-ish.

So, would you ladies recommend I go the shorter 12 hours, a full 24, or set the alarm?
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Old 11-11-2006, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would gamble on 24 being OK, but that's just me. And you'd still have to give it 2 hours to rise some before baking, so factor that in.

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Old 11-11-2006, 07:06 PM
 
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I would gamble on 24 being OK, but that's just me. And you'd still have to give it 2 hours to rise some before baking, so factor that in.
Yes, I would let it go longer - especially if you can set it in a cooler spot (the yeast won't be as active then).
This is totally fascinating! I'm going to try a loaf as soon as I can!!
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Old 11-11-2006, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, this time I'm using a different flour (another spelt, but fresher) and the dough is MUCH thicker than yesterday. Not watery at all. In fact, I feel like it SHOULD be more watery. So we'll see!

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Old 11-12-2006, 03:04 PM
 
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Update on my second loaf:

I decided to make the bread this time with sourdough starter. So I replaced the yeast in the recipe with about 1 C. of starter. I added 2 teaspoons of salt and cut the water back to 1 1/4 C.

I actually let the dough rise for 23 hours.

At the folding stage, the dough was MUCH easier to handle and still had the bubbly look that is talked about in the article.

I let it rise two more hours and baked as directed.

This is the prettiest artisan loaf I have ever made. It looks perfect, brown with the crackling crust and the "exploded" top.

The flavor is excellent. It is very similar to a San Francisco sourdough loaf.

This is now a definite keeper recipe. I may try it with my chocolate sourdough adaption.
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Old 11-12-2006, 03:23 PM
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ladywolf, did you use wholegrain flour for the sourdough version?

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Old 11-12-2006, 06:38 PM
 
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OK I just put mine on the table to rest for 15min. What are you using if you don't have plastic wrap. I put in in a glass bowl with a lid for the 18hr sit and I've put a plastic store bag over it for this 15min sit. Any ideas??


ETA Also I'm using a receiving blanket rather than a towel b/c I don't have any that aren't terry. I'll let you know how that works out. :

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Old 11-12-2006, 09:30 PM
 
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I may try it with my chocolate sourdough adaption.
Chocolate sourdough? Oh, drool.

I'm about up for another bread baking session so I think I'll try this tomorrow. I'll report back on my strategy and results.
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Old 11-12-2006, 09:46 PM
 
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Mine's just OK. It didn't rise much so it's kinda flat and heavy. DH wants to dip it in olive oil.

Anyhow, for my first bread ever I'm happy. Gonna try again soon.

Lori, mom to Elise 6/06, Ivy 4/08 and pos.gif 12/11
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