how much cultured/fermented food do you eat each day? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 03-28-2007, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i really want to up my intake of cultured and fermented foods, so that i can pass on good gut flora to my new babe. so i'm wondering how much fermented foods should i aim for each day? with each meal? and is a spoonful of fermented condiment enough?

right now i drink about a pint of kombucha every day. i occasionally eat homemade raw yogurt, raw cheese a few times a week, occasional creme fraiche, occasional fermented salsa. i made some fermented ketchup last week and have eaten it and bubbies pickles with nieman ranch hotdogs 3 times since then. i also made some fermented apricot butter which i've eaten a few times on soaked muffins or hot cereal.

does drinking raw milk or eating raw icecream count? i know they do have probiotics in them. the week following a milk delivery (which happens every three weeks) i drink quite a bit of raw milk, then the rest of it goes into other things. maybe i should try making raw frozen yogurt instead. with the hot weather starting, this would be an easy way to get the yogurt in.

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#2 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 12:30 AM
 
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I'm trying to eat more fermented foods, too. My appetite for probiotics is really sporadic. The last few days I've been eating tons of yogurt, but usually I'm not that into yogurt. Other times, I try to eat a few fermented, homemade pickles. And sometimes we have miso soup. But I'd like to consume way more than this. I don't really know how much fermented food is ideal for each day. Maybe someone else knows? Is cheese considered a probiotic food?
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#3 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 01:04 AM
 
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This is something I am working on too, though I do not know the ideal am amount. I drink water kefirs and kombucha right now. I have about 1/2-1 quart of water kefir spead out over a day and sometimes kombucha. I would like to start having fermented veggies with at least 2 meals a day. I really need the enzymes and probiotics.

I can't do dairy, but I try and only serve fermented dairy to dh and ds. That way we are maximizing the nutrition of the milk. They really like 24 hour yogurt. Milk Kefir is great for preg because of the B-vitamins.

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#4 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 01:50 AM
 
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I have raw kefir in my morning smoothie. Sometimes I drink a glass of raw yogurt with a meal, or else I use cheese on my salads. I usually use a little lactofermented veggies (maybe 2 tablespoons worth) with lunch and dinner, or else I drink some kombucha or beet kvass.
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#5 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 02:16 AM
 
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I eat 1/4 cup or more of fermented veggies or fruits with two out of three daily meals. I also drink milk kefir in my a.m. smoothies, and then water kefir sodas sporadically. I, too, probably drink a quart or more of kombucha per day. And I eat quite a bit of yogurt and homemade sour cream and buttermilk. So quite a fair amount of fermented foods. I can really tell a difference, in fact, when I don't have them -- in the way I feel, my energy levels, my ability to handle stress, etc.
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#6 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 11:30 AM
 
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not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know what kind of meals are most important to serve fermented foods during?
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#7 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 01:38 PM
 
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We eat yogurt/kefir like crazy, and love buttermilk, saurkraut, any fermented veggies....we are Polish and our diet is a lot fermented stuff anyways
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#8 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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When I was expecting our first child, we were making and eating a lot of fermented foods... kombucha, raw milk kefir, cultured butter, sauerkraut, beet kvass, kimchi, and so on. I tried to make sure to have at least one fermented food with every meal. I also took Primal Defense (Jordan Rubin's probiotic) for a couple of months. And did all the other NT things like virgin coconut oil, bone broth, etc.

Her digestion was still messed up, pretty much from birth. : Or before birth, maybe... she was very active in utero, which I've since heard is a sign of food sensitivities. I'm sure it didn't help that I received IV penicillin during labor, but I supplemented both of us with bifidus powder for a couple of weeks afterward, and it didn't seem to "take" at all. Based on what I've read and experienced since then, I tend to doubt that the antibiotics were the main culprit. It seems more likely that she just inherited some sort of digestive or immune weirdness from me. It's probably nutritional in origin... but, as the Pottenger's Cats study showed, these things often take more than one generation to show up, and more than one generation to fix.

My son has a stronger digestion (though still not the greatest), even though, when I was expecting him, I only ate fermented foods "to taste," which wasn't a whole lot... mainly yogurt made from pasteurized milk, with a little store-bought raw sauerkraut.

I don't mean to be a downer... by all means, enjoy your fermented foods... but bear in mind that there are no guarantees, no matter how much you eat. IMO, the "ideal" amount is whatever makes you feel the best.
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#9 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 06:42 PM
 
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Keep in mind that it is actually possible to eat "too many" fermented/cultured foods. I was trying to eat a ton of fermented foods/beverages to get rid of a candida overgrowth...I was drinking 16-32 oz of water kefirs, 6-8 oz of kombucha, 4-8 oz of beet kvass, and eating a small amount of fermented foods with each meals...then a lot of my candida symptoms that had gone away on a candida diet started coming back. I found out that fermented/cultured foods (with the exception of yogurt) are high in a food chemical called amines, which your liver has to detox. Everyone has a different tolerance for amines, along with a finite capacity to detox them. So...if you start noticing problems after increasing your consumption of fermented foods/beverages, you may be taking in too many amines. Amines can cause a range of symptoms, including digestive problems, itching, brain fog, insomnia, and heart palpitations.
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#10 of 16 Old 04-01-2007, 07:33 PM
 
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Yes, we discovered recently that certain amines are bad news for our family.

Another thing to note is that unpasteurized butter will only stay fresh for a limited time. Once it gets to that cheesy, "cultured" stage, it's likely to be somewhat rancid. Same goes for raw cream, e.g. when it turns sour after several days in the fridge. Again, everyone has a different tolerance for rancidity. It's hard on the liver -- but then again, your body naturally produces all kinds of liver toxins, just as part of being alive, and the organ is constantly regenerating itself. How much you can handle will depend on your genetic background, as well as overall nutritional and health status.

(As a side note, this is why I think most "detox" programs miss the boat. If you're very depleted in the nutrients needed for the detoxification process, you're going to feel toxic no matter how "pure" your diet and environment are, because you can't even get rid of the endogenous toxins. And if you react to this by going on a very restricted diet, in an attempt to "clean house," you can end up making things a lot worse.)

Regarding dairy foods, we find we do best when we buy them very fresh and then culture them quickly, rather than just letting them sit out and get funky on their own. No "bog butter" for us... despite our Irish heritage.
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#11 of 16 Old 04-09-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryCeleste View Post
I'm sure it didn't help that I received IV penicillin during labor, but I supplemented both of us with bifidus powder for a couple of weeks afterward, and it didn't seem to "take" at all. Based on what I've read and experienced since then, I tend to doubt that the antibiotics were the main culprit.
I don't doubt that there could be multiple factors with your child's digestion/ immune system but I just wanted to share that I just read the BEST article in Midwifery Today about the GBS protocols. I'm assuming that's what you had antibiotics for but the reason for the antibiotics is irrelevant. Just the fact that you did have them.

When I was in midwifery school - these protocols were the subject of my main project and the Midwifery Today article confirmed everything I had suspected. Antibiotics during pregnancy/labor can have many bad effects - one being that, when the mother's gut flora is wiped out - the baby does not get colonized with the appropriate flora from the mother's intestinal tract. Instead the baby will get colonized with whatever the predominant flora is at that time - after antibiotics it could be yeast overgrowth. The first flora that are colonized in the baby will tend to always be the most prevalent regardless of attempts to recolonize with healthy flora - DON"T GET ME WRONG - never stop trying to rebuild good flora! Anyways the article went on to talk about fermented foods for rebuilding flora and for use during pregnancy. There are LOTS of other sequalae being seen from the use of prophylactic antibiotics in pregnancy including a rise in peanut allergy (may be other causes as well of course), and a rise in antibiotic resistant infections in children among others. If you want a copy of the article - I will mail it to you. I don't think it is available online unless you subscribe.

Warmly
Jen
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#12 of 16 Old 04-09-2007, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenquin View Post
Antibiotics during pregnancy/labor can have many bad effects - one being that, when the mother's gut flora is wiped out - the baby does not get colonized with the appropriate flora from the mother's intestinal tract. Instead the baby will get colonized with whatever the predominant flora is at that time - after antibiotics it could be yeast overgrowth. The first flora that are colonized in the baby will tend to always be the most prevalent regardless of attempts to recolonize with healthy flora - DON"T GET ME WRONG - never stop trying to rebuild good flora!
i would love to read this article. i didn't take any antibiotics during preg/labor. but did take them for a few weeks right before getting pregnant. and at the time i didn't know much about rebuilding good flora. i took a bottle of acidophilus/etc right afterwards and ate a bunch of (store bought, but atleast from a local grassfed dairy) yogurt through out my preg, but that was it. so is my ds doomed to candida problems his whole life?

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#13 of 16 Old 04-11-2007, 09:15 PM
 
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I would love to read the article too.

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#14 of 16 Old 04-12-2007, 12:25 AM
 
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I will try to figure out a way that I can scan the article and send it as an attachment.... Several people want to see it and, although I don't mind mailing it, I can see where some would be wary to share their address.

Jen
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#15 of 16 Old 04-12-2007, 07:02 AM
 
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I would love to read that article too. If you could pm it to me or if that's not possible, I'll PM you my email addy. Thanks.

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#16 of 16 Old 05-03-2007, 04:02 PM
 
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Hi All:

Sorry for the delay - I have been very busy. I did get a copy of the article from the author in Word. Anyone who would like a copy can email me privately with your email addy and I will happily send it along. There were 3 who already asked but I can't seem to figure out how I can forward it to you. I'm technically challenged, I just need the addresses and I can send it as an attachment.

Warmly
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