What do you think -- "almost" organic? - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-26-2007, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Now that I can't get raw milk (without hours and hours of driving), I'm looking into my other options. I was at the grocery store with the biggest organic selection around here (that I know of) and my choices were pasteurized, homogenized, certified organic cow's (cows'?) milk, or pasteurized, non-homogenized, "natural" goat's milk. I went with the goat's milk (my youngest has eczema, and it has been getting worse since we stopped with the raw and have been using "regular" store milk, though it might also be the heat, I have no idea), even though it wasn't certified organic (despite being in the organic section). I went to their website, and here is their explanation about not being certified organic. I'm in Ontario, Canada, and I have heard that the process to be certified is very difficult and expensive before, so I feel they're being truthful about that. But what about the rest of the stuff? My concerns are mostly growth hormones and pesticides anyway (since pasteurization is a moot point here), and I'm assuming that if they are off antibiotics before the milk is used again, it's not going to be an issue in my milk. I probably don't have many other options anyway, so my question is mostly out of curiosity. I wasn't sure if all of the "almost as good as organic" was a common line used by companies to sell their product, or if it sounds reasonable.

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Old 05-26-2007, 12:13 PM
 
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I've seen labels like that before in the grocery store, such as "naturally raised" meat. To me the milk sounds as good as any other that you can get in Ontario. They say on their website that it's free of hormones, pesticides, and antibiotics.

It's really such a shame though that it's illegal to sell raw milk here. I feel like you when I go shopping; there really aren't any good choices.

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Old 05-27-2007, 02:39 PM
 
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I'm in Alberta and I feel the same way... no raw milk here, either. And I wonder what I'm doing to my dd by giving her pasteurized. Sorry - no answers - it's a tough choice, either way. We chose goat's milk, like the one you're describing, for a while but dd became very constipated. Don't know if it's true but someone told me goat's milk could be the problem. Of course, she was learning to potty at the time. But we haven't switched back, possibly because to me the idea of goat milk is icky. Shouldn't be.

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Old 05-27-2007, 03:02 PM
 
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Brisen, when I was out shopping yesterday I picked up some of that brand of goat's milk, just to try it. I've never tried goat's milk before and I like the idea that it isn't homogonized. I was surprised to find that it really doesn't taste different at all--it just tastes like milk.

All this thinking about milk, and last night I had a dream that I obtained a black and white milk cow and put her in our backyard. A guy from the newspaper came to take pictures and then tried to take her away because it's obviously not allowed in the city to have a cow in your back yard. I argued with him until he went away. I milked a whole bucket full, took the milk inside to put it in the fridge and when I came back outside my beautiful cow was gone. It was a very upsetting dream.

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Old 05-27-2007, 05:30 PM
 
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can you ladies tell me about raw milk in canada? we are moving to toronto next year and were hoping to continue to get raw milk up there.
thanks!
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:24 PM
 
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can you ladies tell me about raw milk in canada? we are moving to toronto next year and were hoping to continue to get raw milk up there.
thanks!
Raw milk is unfortunately highly illegal in Canada. Pretty much as illegal as pot, actually. There are HUGE fines - the kind that would pretty much kill a small farm - if a farmer is caught even GIVING raw milk to anyone. Theoretically, that could even include his children, if they do not actually own the cow. (Yes, really.)

There are probably rebel farmers somewhere that will provide you with raw milk. But finding them is NOT easy. I ask anywhere and everywhere and I have yet to find a supply. (I'm not in Ontario, but my area has a lot of dairy farms.)

It's stupid. I hate the raw milk regulations here. You CAN get raw milk cheese though, in most of the grocery stores.

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Old 05-28-2007, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info, everyone.

Dillpicklechip -- how close to the expiry date is your milk? I bought mine on Fri and the date on it is Mon, and I'm finding small chunks in it now. But I'm not sure if that has to do with it not being homogenized... I've heard that goat's milk will sometimes separate, but this stuff is centrifuged and then cream is added back in, so I'm not sure how that affects it. I don't usually drink milk straight, but the kids do, and they haven't said anything about it tasting differently, so I dont' know if it's souring. I'm a bit wary of it because the President's Choice organic milk always seemed to be sour a few days before its expiry date, and I could never find milk that was very far from that date... arg.

Prairiemother -- one of my kids is prone to constipation, I'll keep an eye on that. He is my biggest milk drinker... I was actually kind of hoping that the milk might taste different, so he would drink less of it.

brookescott88 -- I'm in Toronto. There was a farmer a couple of hours from us who was selling raw milk, but he stopped after another farmer ran into legal problems (though the other farmer was much more public about it and was delivering milk, which breaks more laws, I believe). It isn't illegal to purchase raw milk, though, so the farmer is the only one taking the risk (which I've always felt uneasy about). When I lived a few hours west of Toronto, there was another farmer selling raw, organic milk, and around Guelph there seems to be more sources for it. I've actually found that people who ask around (I have a friend in Brampton who is very dedicated to drinking & providing her family with raw dairy) usually find a source, sooner or later. But you might have to drive a few hours. I also have heard of people who cross the border to buy milk in the US. There seems to be a growing demand for it here, and where there is a demand, there will be a supply.

I believe that even cow-shares, which are used to get around laws against selling raw milk, are illegal here, but I'm not completely sure about that. It's really crazy. But the homeschooling laws are great!

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Old 05-28-2007, 01:47 AM
 
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I've found that the President's Choice organic milk tastes sour a lot too! I buy the Organic Meadows milk at the same store.

My goat's milk had a date of June 5th, so it was pretty fresh when I bought it. There were no chunks at all.

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Old 05-28-2007, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's rather disappointing, considering how PC seems to be pretty good with making organic stuff available in a more mainstream store. I kept giving the PC brand another chance because it was cheaper, but I might have tossed enough milk that the Organic Meadows would have been cheaper anyway.

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Old 05-28-2007, 10:15 AM
 
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wow i am suprised how stringent the law is!
i wonder if there is any legislation up....well the homeschooling laws are better! i will keep my ears open. we don't have much. my boys refuse it outright but i prefer to have raw in the house rather than fussed with milk.
thanks!
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.naturalmilk.org/

Info on raw milk & efforts to legalize it in Ontario

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Old 05-29-2007, 06:59 PM
 
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thanks!
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:12 AM
 
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Brisen, you mentioned you bought President's Choice products...I just wanted to mention that I bought some PC cheddar cheese yesterday and I just noticed this morning when I went to make my egg sandwich that the cheese is made with raw milk! I didn't think that was legal in Canada.

The cheese smelled and tasted REALLY sour though...I wonder if this is this normal for raw cheese, or is it just something particular to this brand (as their milk tastes kind of sour too?).

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Old 06-02-2007, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yup, their cheese is made with raw milk. It's legal in cheese and (I think) yoghurt, just not with actual milk. Sigh.

I also believe that their (not organic) cultured butter is made with raw milk. At least, everything else that is made with milk usually specifies "pasteurized," but the cultured butter doesn't. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. I wonder if the wording in the law has something about raw milk products being OK if they're cultured, since that's what they all have in common.

I bought goat milk again, and the date on it was June 12. We're on the second gallon, and so far, no chunkiness. So nice to avoid going to Loblaws more than once a week -- I always end up spending way more money than I intend.

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Old 06-02-2007, 08:56 PM
 
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Have you bought their cheese, and if so did it smell sour? I'm still not sure if my cheese is supposed to be so sour just because it's made with unpasteurized milk. The date is in October though.

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Old 06-02-2007, 10:04 PM
 
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I just wanted to point out that goats milk is naturally homogenized, so its not something they are really leaving out.... Sucks that you cant get it though. I get raw goats milk here and I love it.
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:58 AM
 
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I don't know about PC brand cheese but I just wanted to point out that all the truly raw cheese I have got smells and tastes more sour than pasteurized cheese.

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Old 06-03-2007, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Dill, I didn't notice that it was sour or tasted like it was bad, but it was definitely stronger than the usual cheddar you get. I just figured it was more like how cheese was supposed to taste.

momtosimon -- yeah, that's one of the reasons why I want to get goat's milk; it doesn't need homogenization, and I think that the effect that artificial homogenization has on cow's milk is very unhealthy, whereas the natural homogenization that goat's milk has is handled fine by our bodies. I know my wording might have made it sound like this particular brand of goat's milk was non-homogenized, but I was just pointing out the differences between the cow and goat milk. Of course, goat milk will always have the advantage of not being homogenized, but I still figured I would throw it in there as one of the advantages.

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Old 06-03-2007, 11:32 AM
 
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I don't know about PC brand cheese but I just wanted to point out that all the truly raw cheese I have got smells and tastes more sour than pasteurized cheese.
Okay, I guess it's fine then. It's just something new that I have to get used to. I'm not really that much of a cheese lover anyway, so strong cheese just seems really...strong to me.

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Old 06-03-2007, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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They have mozzarella, I think... that might be milder.

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Old 06-03-2007, 02:25 PM
 
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I have a suspicion that the PC raw milk cheeses are rebranded L'Ancestre cheeses, which I buy in non-Superstore grocery stores. If that's the case, the mozzarella isn't actually made with raw milk, although it's still pretty tasty mozzarella.

We buy the medium cheddar and we really like it. I prefer the aged strong cheddar (I'm a stinky cheese kind of gal) but the little one likes the medium better.

I think Canada's cheese laws are similar to the US, where raw milk cheese is only permitted to be sold if it's aged more than 60 days. Mozzarella isn't.

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Old 03-18-2014, 06:08 AM
 
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I don't get why you would continue to give your child milk if he has eczema which worsens when you give him milk.

Milk is such an unnecessary product to consume. Organic or non organic, pasteurized or non pasteurized, clearly your child's body is saying this food is toxic to me!

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Old 03-18-2014, 11:17 PM
 
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non-homogenized milk needs to be shaken, that's why you saw chunks. It's just bits of cream that have separated. It doesn't mean it's sour. 


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