If bone broth doesn't gel, is it worthless? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
Taedareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: FKA the "land of the free"
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I made two batches of bone broth from the same bones. The first time I cooked it on low (crock pot) for 10 hours and poured it off the next morning. Repeat process for second batch.

The first batch gelled like normal in the fridge but the second batch apparently isn't. Should I throw it away?
Taedareth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 08:00 PM
 
tempestjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh boy, I hope it doesn't mean the batch is bad, because I've eaten lots of stock that hasn't gelled.

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
tempestjewel is offline  
#3 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
Taedareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: FKA the "land of the free"
Posts: 2,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I'm sure it's not poisonous or anything... But I just wondered if it was nutritionally worthless due to lack of gelatin and minerals, maybe?
Taedareth is offline  
#4 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 10:40 PM
 
spiderdust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
It's lower in nutrients than the first batch, but it's not totally void of them. It's certainly more nutrient rich than water!

I usually just use bones once for making broth.

Mama to Munchkin  and Chickadee ...and co-parent to 3 additional bundles of energy!
spiderdust is offline  
#5 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 10:52 PM
 
tempestjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you reduce it, maybe then it would gel?

I didn't think un-gelled was poisoness But I often don't have broth gel even when I follow perfect directions and make it with a whole chicken fryer. I made my first batch of beef stock last night and am reducing it today so it will take less room to store. I hope IT gels!

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
tempestjewel is offline  
#6 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 10:55 PM
 
AsYouWish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in the dark without a sidewalk
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No stock I have ever made (both chicken & beef) has gelled. I'm following the directions in NT. Am I doing something wrong?
AsYouWish is offline  
#7 of 22 Old 09-19-2007, 11:01 PM
 
spiderdust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Not necessarily... maybe you need to simmer it longer so the protein is pulled from the collagen?

Mama to Munchkin  and Chickadee ...and co-parent to 3 additional bundles of energy!
spiderdust is offline  
#8 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 02:54 AM
 
tempestjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've simmered broths for over 24 hours from a whole fryer and it didn't gel. It was strong broth in flavor, but no gelling

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
tempestjewel is offline  
#9 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 03:25 AM
 
TwilightJoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've heard that bones from non-grass fed chickens don't gel as well.

Or you could try boiling it down more to see if it gels then. Maybe it was still too watery.

Hi, I'm TJ!  lady.gif | NMY Grad love.gif | Mama to DD 5/13 babygirl.gif

TwilightJoy is offline  
#10 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 03:59 AM
 
tempestjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightJoy View Post
I've heard that bones from non-grass fed chickens don't gel as well.

Or you could try boiling it down more to see if it gels then. Maybe it was still too watery.

Hmmm, it was supposed to be a pastured organic chicken. Maybe I'll try them from a different place. I way boiled down the beef broth I made today (reduced it from a huge stockpot to about 2 1/2 quarts). These are definitely from grass-fed cows, so hopefully I'll have a nice gel by morning!

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
tempestjewel is offline  
#11 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 04:25 AM
 
TwilightJoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tempestjewel View Post
Hmmm, it was supposed to be a pastured organic chicken. Maybe I'll try them from a different place. I way boiled down the beef broth I made today (reduced it from a huge stockpot to about 2 1/2 quarts). These are definitely from grass-fed cows, so hopefully I'll have a nice gel by morning!
Mine has always gelled... I say always, but I've only made broth 3 times.
Anyway, maybe you need something like this?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...23#post3942223
Quote:
NT recommends this gelatin:
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/4/pid/1054
I forget the reasons for using it over Knox Gelatine, but I know there were good ones.
I don't understand what it is, just that it helps broth gel.

Hi, I'm TJ!  lady.gif | NMY Grad love.gif | Mama to DD 5/13 babygirl.gif

TwilightJoy is offline  
#12 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 11:17 AM
 
AsYouWish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in the dark without a sidewalk
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightJoy View Post
I've heard that bones from non-grass fed chickens don't gel as well.

Or you could try boiling it down more to see if it gels then. Maybe it was still too watery.
The broths I've made have been from grass-fed creatures that I actually met. I also simmered it for 18-20 hours. So, I don't know. I'm starting some fresh chicken stock today, so maybe I will reduce it down this time and see how it goes. How do I use it for broth for soup, etc. if it has been reduced? Just combine it with water and heat it up?
AsYouWish is offline  
#13 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 11:24 AM
 
Tigeresse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Space Mountain
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My beef broth seems to gel really well but not my chicken broth. A friend told me to add chicken feet along with the bones so I just recently bought a bunch...we'll see what happens.

BTW, usually when I make beef broth I use raw soup and marrow bones, and when I make chicken, it comes from bones that have already been cooked. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Tigeresse is offline  
#14 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 12:25 PM
 
steph117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My chicken broth (from pastured chickens) has NEVER gelled - despite my sometimes adding up to 5 chicken feet, and simmering for more than 24 hours! I'm guessing it's just too much water. Though come to think of it, I HAVE tired the NT recipe's proportions, and that didn't work either. I've never tried reducing it, which I suspect would work.

My lamb broth, however - I called it lamb jell-o. It was completely solid & jiggly. It actually kinda freaked me out.
steph117 is offline  
#15 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 01:40 PM
 
pnutS4us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Diabetes--a grand new adventure
Posts: 404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The last batch of broth I made was from left over bones, and no gel--and they were organic birds and I cooked it for over 24 hours! Good flavor though. But, the time before, I used whole chicken and tons of gel.... hmmmm..... maybe next time, I will try mixing bones and meat.
pnutS4us is offline  
#16 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 02:04 PM
 
MamaLeslie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Big Smog, Canada
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have only made stock once, and I didn't simmer overnight even... and I got beautiful gelling. I dunno.
MamaLeslie is offline  
#17 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 04:15 PM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
The last time I made chicken broth, it didn't gel either. For me, the difference was the simmer time--I think I simmered it too long. Usually I don't go over 24hrs for chicken, but this time I was tired so I just left it in the oven an extra night and it ended up around the 36-hour mark. There were plenty of bones, and just enough water to cover them. My wild guess is that the extra heat/time broke down the proteins too far.

Before this last time, I've never had a problem with store chickens : gelling if I just put in enough water to cover the bones and no more (but I've never done a whole chicken, that seems like it would add lots of meat to take up the volume, instead of bones, so it seems like it would make gelling trickier).
tanyalynn is offline  
#18 of 22 Old 09-20-2007, 11:40 PM
 
tempestjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
The last time I made chicken broth, it didn't gel either. For me, the difference was the simmer time--I think I simmered it too long. Usually I don't go over 24hrs for chicken, but this time I was tired so I just left it in the oven an extra night and it ended up around the 36-hour mark. There were plenty of bones, and just enough water to cover them. My wild guess is that the extra heat/time broke down the proteins too far.

Hmmm, I wonder if simmering too long is my problem too? I reduced my beef stock from 5-6 quarts to about 1 1/2 quarts. It hadn't turned into a glaze yet, but the flavor is still very concentrated. However, after cooling, still no gelling

If the proteins are just broken down too much, they are still in the the stock though, right? I mean, the minerals don't evaporate with the water, right? In which case it'd still be nutritious even without gelling? I hope so. I tried to do a google search and didn't come up with much.

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
tempestjewel is offline  
#19 of 22 Old 09-21-2007, 02:14 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My guess is the minerals are still there and the proteins are sorta there, but not as available/in the best form--maybe it would be better if it really gelled, but I sure didn't throw out my batch that didn't gel. It was still tasty and I think good for us.
tanyalynn is offline  
#20 of 22 Old 09-21-2007, 04:18 PM
 
tempestjewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Okay, so how is this for strange... I froze almost all of the beef broth into ice cube trays last night, but I had more broth then trays so I stuck the extra broth in a bowl back in the fridge so I could freeze the rest this morning. And, low and behold, the broth left in the bowl GELLED. This broth is NO different then the stuff I froze- all from the same batch treated the same way. The only difference is that I froze some of it sooner then the stuff left in the fridge! I don't get it :

Naomi, mama to Faith (12/03) and Hannah (12/06) and Kai, a homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg on 5/15/10
tempestjewel is offline  
#21 of 22 Old 09-23-2007, 06:42 PM
 
Pilgrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here has been my experience, and I've made tons of chicken and beef broths. If I let my chicken stock go for about 4 hours, it gels perfectly. But I typically let it go for around 12-16 hours (my preferred flavor "spot.") If it goes this long, it never gels. I do believe the extra cooking breaks down the gelatin, but I also believe the longer cooking time pulls out more minerals, so the stock ends up with more minerals. I have no research to back this up, just seems logical to me.

Also, I make my chicken stock from leftover bones. I always do a roasted chicken first, and we eat the meat & pluck the bones, and then make stock with the carcasses. The pan drippings contain a lot of gelatin right there, so that's already some of the gelatin that has been pulled out of the carcass that is not included in my stock. I always save the pan drippings with the leftover chicken, and then add that back into whatever I make with the leftover chicken (usually soup.)

I usually do my beef stock for 48 hours, and it never gels. Again, I think it's due to cooking time. I'm positive that I am using the highest quality bones!
Pilgrim is offline  
#22 of 22 Old 09-23-2007, 08:06 PM
 
Leilalu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 7,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, what i really like to do about half the time, is to make chicken in the oven, then during the last 30 minutes or so, add some water to the pan and add rice. So, my kids like eating rice, but they are really getting all the good fats/gel from the chicken in the rice. Then we usually serve it with salad or greens.
I always add a piece or two of a citrus fruit like orange or lemon or even lime inside my chicken, with herbs and salt and olive oil.

I never thought too much about the gelling. I guess I figured we were getting the good stuff one way or another. I do seem to have more gelling when I put in a whole raw chicken though. Plus, it is easier to pull the meat off, and the meat is tasty. I always add a bit of vinegar too. I think it helps pull things out of the bones.

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
.
Leilalu is offline  
Reply

User Tag List



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off