What health problems does kefir cause? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 54 Old 10-27-2007, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
Taedareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: FKA the "land of the free"
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by quietserena View Post
Yogurt doesn't fizz so hopefully no explosions.
But yeah, all the storebought kefir I ever had always had the live bacteria label.
The kind we bought came in a cardboard carton and said it contained live acidophilus and other cultures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammaarah View Post
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
I know the perfect book for you! It's called The Maker's Diet, by Jordan Rubin. In fact, it was by reading this book that I first learned about Nourishing Traditions (it includes some quotes from NT). Jordan Rubin had severe Crohn's disease for a couple of years and tried EVERYTHING to treat it. There is a photograph of him in the book, taken during that time. He literally looks like a skeleton draped in skin. When he started researching traditional nutrition (specifically the diet of the ancient Israelites because he is a Messianic Jew), drinking kefir and eating other traditional foods, he was completely cured. It's an excellent book and I highly recommend it!
Taedareth is offline  
#32 of 54 Old 10-28-2007, 11:13 PM
 
desertpenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the desert
Posts: 2,088
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
My understanding of Crohn's Disease is that it is stress-induced.
while i think stress is definitely a factor, i believe Crohn's is entirely multifactorial. my fil had gut damage from the start (was allergic to a bazillion things as a child, still is but denies that he has allergies.) i think gluten is a culprit as well.

dreads.gif and my man mischievous.gif. Momma to ds1 (11-'04) blahblah.gif, ds2 (8-'08) hammer.gif, dd (3-'12) orngtongue.gif, and Mr Blue, Chiyo, and Fireball, our 3 cat.gifnovaxnocirc.gif intactlact.gif uc.jpg

desertpenguin is offline  
#33 of 54 Old 10-28-2007, 11:16 PM
 
desertpenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the desert
Posts: 2,088
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammaarah View Post
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
if she's having a bad reaction to kefir, she probably still has too much gut damage and the milk proteins are getting into her bloodstream (i'm assuming) thus causing the negative reaction. glutamine is supposed to be good in helping to heal the gut...avoiding gluten and milk/milk products, finding out if there are any true food allergies or sensitivities and eliminating those foods, etc will all go a long way. i would wander over to the healing the gut thread and see what other good info they have over there. ah, she might also want to do a candida cleanse, if candida is an issue for her as well. candida causes gut damage.

dreads.gif and my man mischievous.gif. Momma to ds1 (11-'04) blahblah.gif, ds2 (8-'08) hammer.gif, dd (3-'12) orngtongue.gif, and Mr Blue, Chiyo, and Fireball, our 3 cat.gifnovaxnocirc.gif intactlact.gif uc.jpg

desertpenguin is offline  
#34 of 54 Old 10-29-2007, 12:30 AM
 
NoTiGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammaarah View Post
I'd love to hear about any nutritional cure. My friend has tried everything allopathic medicine has to offer, including a major surgical revision of her digestive system and has also tried traditional Chinese medicine, the advice of a naturopath, and a bazillion different dietary remedies. She eats very healthy food and her Crohn's is considered in remission, but her system is still very delicate. Anyway, I didn't want to diss the glories of kefir and I know the store stuff is not the same as stuff you make, but I did want to mention that my friend, who has this issue, had a bad reaction to kefir and she's the only person I've known who reported any trouble with it.
One nutritional aid I have heard of is aloe... more specifically the mucoligenouspolisaccaride (Sp?) in it that helps heal the mucosal lining of the intestines.. theres alot of low quality ones out there but one that is reputable is supposedly called Digestinol
NoTiGG is offline  
#35 of 54 Old 10-29-2007, 11:27 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry for not making direct quotes, I just can't get the darn quote feature to work. :

I was very ill with ulcerative colitis for five years. Very ill. The last doc I saw was a lady who is recommended as the top doc in the country for women and IBD issues at the University of Chicago. Her recommendation was to take meds that I was not comfortable with or to have surgery and remove my colon. This was in March.

Every doc I saw all said the same thing. Food is not the cause of IBD's and eating healthy is great, but it won't cure anything. Stress as a cause was brought up many times over. Who has a stress free life? No one. IMO, this is another way of saying that your mind is causing this disease.

Since ds began eating solids, he would complain of tummy aches and rarely had a solid bm. As one suffering terribly with UC, this frightened the living hell out of me. Could I have passed on this terrible disease to my sweet little boy? Dd had problems too, but not as severely as ds. I brought them in to be seen and all of it was brushed off. On to what? Just that kids get the runs. :

After reading and reading, we switched to raw milk. Wonderful, organic raw milk straight from the farm. There seemed to be some improvement for all of us. Things didn't get 'all better', but they weren't worse. As time went on, I became more frustrated and nearly horrified at the sight of my little boy crying on the toilet daily and having no answers for him. Meanwhile, I was doing a dance trying to hold my own back until he could he off the toilet. Dd began hiding when she had 'squishy' bm's and started lying about them. :

How could this be? We were eating organic fruits and veggies, no junk food, sprouted grains, organic chicken, wild salmon, raw milk, raw milk kefir, raw milk yogurt. I became beyond the point of anal about chemicals in my house. We installed an RO filter and had well water. It was out of control. My health spiraled down quicker than ever, along with my weight. I lost 25 pounds in 2 months and was eating everything in sight. Ds was in so much pain and dd was using upstairs bathrooms in hopes that no one would notice.

I went to a specialist. They demanded that I take Flagyl. I was weak. Very weak. I just wanted to be better. I took it. I took two doses and landed in the ER. This may be TMI for some, but I almost had to have a transfusion because I lost so much blood. I refused it and immediately quit the antibiotics. Slowly I regained what I lost from the antibiotics, but didn't get any better than that. Then the worst came. I couldn't hardly even walk up the stairs or just to the kitchen from the living room. My parents were over one day and looked at me in horror. They were scared. Very scared. I just wanted to sleep. I couldn't move anymore.

My dad took me in the next morning. Testing was done. I had C-difficile. Bad. The severly weakened state I was in when I had seen the other doc months prior and took the antibiotics left me wide open for it. They sent me home. Due to allergies, I only had one possible antibiotic to use for this. My mom was crying, my dad speechless and dh was just horrified. They think I had this for three, maybe four months. The kids and I stayed at my parents house for nearly two weeks while I slowly recovered.

It was after this that I went to the U of Chicago. During all of this, I spent a lot of time reading. Lots and lots. I decided to take the kids off of wheat. We saw some improvement. Dd seemed to be fine then. Ds and myself, not so much. I took out gluten on a whim, even though I was refused gluten testing twice. Because, ya know, IBD's aren't related to diet. It was like magic. We all had probably about a 90% improvement.

I still noticed that there seemed to be some issues when we had dairy, even raw. Through other reading, I found that in a damaged gut, the proteins from dairy can be mistaken by the body as gluten. We cut it out for a while and reintroduced it with no problems.

Eating healthy is different for everyone. I did everything 'right', according to the books, but that was not right for us. It's been eight months since I have taken any meds. My back and my bones are trashed from years of steroids. I was told by two different doctors that my only option was to have my entire colon removed. I was told that it was stress that did this to me. I was told that it was normal for ds and dd to have diarrhea. Kids get things. I nearly died from c-difficile. Ds couldn't go a day without tears on the toilet. I couldn't seem to go a week without bleeding or my own gut wrenching pain.

Today, I am 29 and my children are 6 and 4. We are officially gluten free, and still cannot find anyone who will admit that five years of torture for us was as simple as testing for celiac, except for our homeopath. I have gotten into arguments with docs who want to know why I am not taking prednisone anymore. One told me, "It's not related. You better keep your fingers crossed that this fluke keeps up, or you will be having surgery."

I realize that I probably wrote waaaaay too much here. I hope that it can help someone though. I have a friend who gave up and had her colon removed a year and a half ago. She's still dealing with complications. She still hasn't had any allergy testing done either.
petitpois likes this.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#36 of 54 Old 10-29-2007, 03:49 PM
 
ramlita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: eating pesto in Vermont
Posts: 3,011
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I learned a lot.
Glad you're getting better!

DIYer mama to DD 11/00 and DS 6/05- both intact, naturally!
...missing Mothering Magazine...
 
ramlita is offline  
#37 of 54 Old 10-29-2007, 04:37 PM
 
~PurityLake~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, US
Posts: 6,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post

I was very ill with ulcerative colitis for five years.
I lost 25 pounds in 2 months and was eating everything in sight.
Ds was in so much pain and dd was using upstairs bathrooms in hopes that no one would no
I had C-difficile. The severely weakened state I was in when I had seen the other doc months prior and took the antibiotics left me wide open for it.
I nearly died from c-difficile.
Ds couldn't go a day without tears on the toilet.
I couldn't seem to go a week without bleeding or my own gut wrenching pain.
still cannot find anyone who will admit that five years of torture for us was as simple as testing for celiac, except for our homeopath.
I've never heard of Celiac.
What is it?
I wonder if my mom has that.
She was diagnosed with Chron's Disease and thinks she is lactose intolerant.

Katreena, peace.gif 39 year old Alaskan treehugger.gif Mama to 1 hearts.gif and 1 lady.gif gd.gif
 
 
 
 

~PurityLake~ is offline  
#38 of 54 Old 10-29-2007, 07:49 PM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
I've never heard of Celiac.
What is it?
I wonder if my mom has that.
She was diagnosed with Chron's Disease and thinks she is lactose intolerant.
Celiac is a gluten intolerance.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#39 of 54 Old 10-29-2007, 09:21 PM
 
Flowergirl~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Down Under
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by quietserena View Post
Yogurt doesn't fizz so hopefully no explosions.

But yeah, all the storebought kefir I ever had always had the live bacteria label.
Maybe they add acidophilus or yogurt bacteria after pasteurizing the store bought kefir milk? Bacteria that doesn't cause fizz.

tayndrewsmama, thanks for sharing. My own story is very similar to yours so I'll keep it short. My health have gone up and down for the last 10+ yrs but I became severely ill for about 1 yr. Long story. Did elimination diet, excluded wheat, soy, dairy, gluten, chocolate, coffee etc from my diet. Drastic changes occurred esp from going gluten free. Kept this up for 8 months to allow gut to heal. Reintroduced dairy no problem. Still gluten free and soy free ( with the occasional soy sauce, tamari and sushi that sometimes cause the runs .

I agree that the gluten causes havoc in the gut and dairy intolerance may occur because the gut confuses the milk proteins with gluten. I never bothered to go for celiac testing. I believe the tests are too unreliable. The proof is in the pudding: avoid gluten.

I don't think there is anything wrong with raw milk kefir, it is just that some people have a compromised gut.
Flowergirl~ is offline  
#40 of 54 Old 10-30-2007, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
Taedareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: FKA the "land of the free"
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow! Ladies, thanks for sharing. You really answered my question. And now that I think about it, this sounds familiar. I have a friend who suffered terribly from gluten intolerance before she finally went to a doc who was familiar with Celiac's and did the simple test to check for it. So she did the research on how to avoid gluten (hard, if you're not cooking everything from scratch) and went gluten-free, with excellent results. But she couldn't tolerate dairy and thought she was lactose-intolerant. After her gut healed (took a year or more) she suddenly could drink milk again without any problems. I thought maybe that was an isolated incident, but after reading the above I can see it's not uncommon. Thanks again
Taedareth is offline  
#41 of 54 Old 10-30-2007, 10:28 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is highly frustrating that there seems to be such a lack of knowledge of celiac in today's medical professionals.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#42 of 54 Old 10-30-2007, 10:44 AM
 
krankedyann's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Buried in recipes in Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There's a difference between celiac and gluten intolerance. Celiac is an auto-immune response to gluten in the diet. Gluten intolerance is a food allergy. Two different responses to the same food protein.

KerryAnn @ CookingTF dot com - Nutrient dense foods your kids will LOVE!  Real Food Cooking School and Lactofermentation Classes now live! Use coupon code "CTF" for 20% off.

krankedyann is offline  
#43 of 54 Old 10-30-2007, 10:48 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am sorry, but an intolerance is not the same as an allergy. I'll have to explain later though. I have to run out for a while.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#44 of 54 Old 10-30-2007, 11:48 PM
 
tsume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in through the out door
Posts: 1,523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EENS View Post


You just wait - it's coming! My 83 yo fil shocked, I mean absolutely stunned a doctor a few weeks ago by stating that he was on absolutely NO medication. After double and triple-checking his charts, they still didn't believe him.

As for the kefir warning, I've never seen that before and I have no idea why it would be on there.
My husband's granddad turns 93 in a week and he takes no medication. He takes his vitamins, cod liver oil and a few other supplements. No meds at all.
tsume is offline  
#45 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 10:27 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Gluten allergy vs. gluten intolerance

Allergies and intolerances are both reactions by your immune system, but those reactions are completely different.

http://www.foodintol.com/allergyorintolerance.asp

Quote:
To clarify:

Food allergy is a rather fast response (minutes) by the body’s immune system to a perceived invader. Signs or symptoms are typically immediate, dramatic and visible: coughing, sneezing, vomiting, migraines, watering eyes, rashes, swelling tissue, hives – or in severe cases an anaphylactic shock which requires emergency intervention. However other symptoms like the gastro-intestinal responses nausea, vomiting and diarrhea can be delayed for hours or even days.
Food intolerance on the other hand is rather slow onset reaction, hours, days or even weeks. It is an inability to process a particular food. It is also thought to be an immune system response. The gastro-intestinal tract in some people is simply unable to produce appropriate enzymes for normal chemical breakdown. The food passes through unprocessed, or lingers in the gut fermenting producing excess ‘gas’. In some cases protein fragments rupture the lining of the intestine allowing foreign particles into the bloodstream
Determining between gluten intolerant, non-celiac gluten intolerant and celiac is much harder. There is widespread proof that the so-called "golden standard" in celiac testing isn't very accurate and produces a lot of false negatives. The Gluten Connection by Shari Lierberman is something that I wish everyone would read. For those who cannot, here is another page to peruse http://www.foodintol.com/celiac.asp
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#46 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 10:29 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry about the messy quotes and links. I have been having a lot of problems getting things to work here for a while. Must be because I don't have a paid sub.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#47 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 10:35 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To the OP, FWIW, when I google kefir and health problems, this thread is at the top of the page. There didn't seem to be anything following it that talked about health problems from kefir, just about health problems from 'dead' foods.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#48 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 10:41 AM
 
krankedyann's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Buried in recipes in Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post
Determining between gluten intolerant, non-celiac gluten intolerant
Please clarify what you mean by this, as you're either gluten intolerant or celiac, I've never heard of a third classification.

I was trying to differentiate that celiac and gluten intolerant are not the same thing. They're mediated by completely different mechanisms. I understand that allergy and food intolerances are completely different, but it's the easiest way to explain it to people who are beginning to understand it or people who don't care much to learn the difference. I've dealt with too many people who have the 'oh, it's an intolerance, you can have just a little' mentality that I now explain it as an allergy so people get it, accurate or not.

KerryAnn @ CookingTF dot com - Nutrient dense foods your kids will LOVE!  Real Food Cooking School and Lactofermentation Classes now live! Use coupon code "CTF" for 20% off.

krankedyann is offline  
#49 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 11:36 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You should be able to find that in those links, or on that site. I don't really know the best way to explain it without copying word for word out of the book I have and I am just not comfortable doing that here. The best I can figure is that the NCGI is something new. I don't really know where it came from. That doesn't help, does it? Unless I am misunderstanding what I am reading...
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#50 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 11:38 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Too funny. I am in the process of trying to figure out what's up with my PP account to sub to your menu mailer. I also forgot to mention that I completely agree with resorting to saying it's an allergy to those around who just don't 'get it'.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#51 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 11:45 AM
 
krankedyann's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Buried in recipes in Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll check into the book. Three classifications don't make sense to me, because either you're celiac or you're not, and all celiacs are 'gluten intolerant.'

So many people don't understand food issues- I often get frustrated and explain it like this- 'what peanuts does to his throat, gluten does to my intestine.' That gets people to understand it's not something you can cheat on, even though it's not technically a correct analogy.

KerryAnn @ CookingTF dot com - Nutrient dense foods your kids will LOVE!  Real Food Cooking School and Lactofermentation Classes now live! Use coupon code "CTF" for 20% off.

krankedyann is offline  
#52 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 04:44 PM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
FWIW, I'll throw in my guess about the kefir warning. I think it has to do with the low possibility that if a person is immune-compromised, bacteria may leak from their gut into their bloodstream more easily, and adding bacteria could be seen as an additional risk. A friend whose baby was born by C-section asked their ped about supplementing with a probiotic and was told to wait til the baby was older, and I think this was the concern. That said, it still seems like kefir is a good way to improve immune function, that part seems more proven than any theoretical risk.
tanyalynn is offline  
#53 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
Taedareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: FKA the "land of the free"
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To the people discussing Celiac's vs. gluten intolerance, here's what I have to contribute:

I asked DH's naturopathic specialist (the one who suggested he might have a gluten problem and got him tested for it) what the difference is between those two terms. She said that since many practitioners are just now learning about gluten issues, the terms to describe this condition are not precisely defined, and as of now both terms mean the same thing. She said sometimes people use "Celiac's disease" to describe a person who demonstrates a severe reaction and "gluten intolerant" to describe a person with a less noticeable reaction, but in reality both people's bodies have the same problem.
Taedareth is offline  
#54 of 54 Old 10-31-2007, 06:30 PM
 
Ammaarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
nak but thank you all for the info on chron's...I'll pass it on.
Ammaarah is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off