Another teeth (ECC) thread - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 08-11-2008, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This subject has been revisted over and over again, I know. BUT I just got back from the dentist and dd's teeth are TEN times worse than they were (and they were bad before). I'm panicking. Yes, taking deep breaths. Here are my questions. Hopefully someone can answer a few of them.

First, let me tell you the state of her teeth. She has had her two "big" (great terminology) teeth pulled from the bottom left (me looking at her), not the most recent (and farthest in the back) molar, but the two in front of that. They were both infected (at different times), and had to be pulled immediately. On the other side of the bottom the exact same two teeth are reaaaally bad. One is possibly salvageable, the other had rotted until it broke and all that is remaining is basically level with her gums (so the root) - though neither have or do hurt her. Her front bottom teeth are fine: she lost her first tooth a couple weeks ago and the permanent tooth is about 1/3 of the way grown in. The tooth next to it is also very loose with the permanent tooth peeking out from behind. Moving on to the top of her mouth: her 4 front teeth are rotted in what one dentist called "classic bottle mouth" (she has never touched a bottle, or drank anything besides breastmilk, water, and now raw milk when we can get it). He also recommended we just leave those teeth alone, since they would soon be falling out. The other teeth on her top have little cavities here and there, mostly in between teeth, or on the very top front, (where plaque collects).

This new dentist (finally found a pediatric in my town) has me signed up for an appointment in 3 weeks. He wants to do in office sedation (a cocktail) and do as many of the teeth as possible. He wants to pull the one that has broken (which I am A-OK with), try to fix the horribly rotted tooth next to it, seal the back two bottom molars (one has the beginnings of a cavity, which he wants to fix first), he wants to pull the top two front teeth, and try to salvage the two "bottle rot" teeth next to them. Then he wants to fix the little cavities here and there throughout her mouth. He also wants to add spacers to the bottom where teeth have been (and will be) pulled, so her molars in the back don't drift forward.

What do you guys think about this? Would you just go ahead and do it? All of that, of course, comes with a hefty price tag (and we're self-employed so pay for things with cash). Is there anything up there that you would say no to?

My next question: I am desperate to make this stop. My son has no cavities (and when my daughter was his age her teeth were already a mess), but his teeth grew in with the front two top and bottom with nice little lines of pits. He said they weren't cavities, but that I need to be super careful with them, or they could turn into cavities. I am willing to do WHATEVER necessary to get my kids' health in order to make this cycle stop. I understand that my daughter's teeth are most likely too far gone for much help. But to prevent any more damage, and protect her adult teeth as much as possible, is my biggest goal! I am also willing to be extreme in my measures to make sure and cover every basis (we used to be hardcore raw foodists - so I can handle extreme).

Here's the things I've come up with, that need to be done on a regular basis:

~Brushing 2-3 Xs per day with tooth soap (any advice on getting kids to like this? We've been using the baby Xylitol 'toothpaste", and when I bought the Hawaiian Punch tooth soap, they fought me tooth and nail for weeks before I finally gave up)
~Flossing once per day
~Trying out the Tooth Swish stuff I've been reading about, from the Tooth Soap company
~Getting bone broths into my kids 1-2 Xs per day (?)
~Getting the maximum safe dosage of HVCLO into both kids (anyone know what that is?) and butter oil
~Raw milk (and fermented raw dairy) liberally
~Wild fish and grassfed meat here and there (how much?)
~Eggs liberally, raw egg smoothies
~Loads of veggies
~I'm not sure on fruit, but we mostly stick to organic berries (frozen in smoothies) and apples


Anything else you've implemented and loved that I'm missing? I haven't figured out where to get organic organ meats (we live in a small town, with a tiny health food store), so I haven't figured out how to add this in, yet.

I welcome any comments, advice, whatever knowledge you guys have!

Thanks in advance,
Sarah

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#2 of 27 Old 08-11-2008, 11:05 PM
 
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It sounds like you are doing the right diet for your LOs. What about acidic foods? IT sounds like you are loading her up with good foods, so she probably isn't too hungry for other foods. The question I have is, how long have you been following this diet? If it hasn't been followed for very long, her teeth won't be doing any self-healing yet. So if you feel uncomfortable with all of the work (like the sealing), perhaps it is worth waiting on some of it and having her re-examined in a month or two.

A dentist once told me that I have matching bad spots on my 12-year molars. He suspected that I might have been sick during their formation to have those spots be in the exact same place. Therefore, if they developed cavities at any point, it wasn't a lack of good dental care that caused this. It is just a developmental thing. The same thing could be going on with your daughter's teeth (in which case, you or she didn't do anything to promote cavity formation).

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#3 of 27 Old 08-12-2008, 02:52 AM
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I know your frustration and panic. Both of my kids have had "defective" baby teeth, bad enamel when they erupt through the gums, which has developed into extensive decay in both. My second was born after I'd followed a TF diet for 4 years, and he's always had a great TF diet and dental hygiene, yet his teeth are just as bad as my oldest, and we are facing the decision of when to have treatment done.

You might want to think about supplementing with vit. K2. It's the only thing we haven't done among all these theories of healing or preventing decay with nutrition, although in theory we should be getting good amounts from food (grassfed dairy and fermented foods especially). It appears to be a key player in the tooth/bone issue, working with vitamins A and D in the area of mineral utilization. It's one of my what-ifs, as in what if I'd known about that when I was pregnant, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be going through this again. Our problem seems to be soft, weak baby tooth enamel that wears away in some spots before any actual decay is present, and then decay develops in those holes. It's all happened before the age of 3 in my kids' cases. Permanent teeth appear to be much better so far, in the case of my oldest (youngest too early to tell), so don't assume that your kids' dental issues will necessarily be life-long. I believe that the body may not always allocate a full complement of resources to make strong, durable baby tooth enamel, since they're not permanent and are therefore lower priority than other structures and organs that will not be shed.

There is no secret ingredient.
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#4 of 27 Old 08-12-2008, 03:03 AM
 
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xylitol
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#5 of 27 Old 08-12-2008, 11:27 AM
 
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My first son had lots of cavities (related to pregnancy issues), so I sealed my 2nd son's teeth as soon as they would let me.

Sara
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#6 of 27 Old 08-12-2008, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Mommas. I think it's true that it's just how the health of her teeth were/are to begin with, not necessarily environmental. I'm not saying there weren't some major things I could have done differently (such as just buckling down and getting her teeth fixed 2 years ago - general anesthesia scared me so much it's taken me two years, and two emergency tooth removals for me to finally be okay with sedation - though this guy does a sedation I can wrap my head around, moreso than the GA at the hospital - that still freaks me out), flossing might have helped, though not much, since it was only recently that she had teeth grow in that needed it, and nutrient dense animal products from a young age would have helped tremendously (we were vegan until 2 years ago)...and a lack of occasional junk binges being absent from that time period would have been nice.

We have been brushing with xylitol faithfully for over 2 years (maybe more than 3), and even used xylitol baby mouth wipes for a while. I think it helped my son's teeth from developing into what my daugher's teeth have become. But I think my daughter's teeth were already too decayed for the xylitol to stop the cavities.

Dang genes and modern food/lifestyle...:

Oh well, so here we are, and I think I'm becoming okay with what the dentist would like to do. The only thing that really makes me shudder is the removal of her two top front teeth. I know, I know... Pathetic, but it's definitely not going to enhance the look. As a kid, I used to judge families with kids who had horrible teeth. Now I get to feel the burn.

The one thing I didn't mention, that I remembered later (it was a lot of information to take in as he was telling me what he wanted to do)...apparently he wants to put an amalgam "crown" of sorts over the horribly rotted bottom "large" tooth (I really need to look up what all these little buggers are actually called). I do NOT want amalgam in her mouth, or anywhere near it. Anyone know what I can ask for instead? I know it will be more expensive, but I don't care. No metal for my baby, thanks.

Thanks for all your support!
Sarah

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#7 of 27 Old 08-13-2008, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Has anyone seen this?

http://www.yourreturn.org/Articles/E...ries_Cured.htm

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#8 of 27 Old 08-13-2008, 08:36 PM
 
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DS has horrible teeth, whith every factor I've heard about effecting tooth development against him (veg*n diet during pregnancy, "morning" sickness that was 24/7 for 8 mos of pregnancy, genetics- I had horrible teeth allegedly, night nursing-arguably).

We're commiting to xylitol (you need 6-8g a day for it to be effective) brushing once or twice won't get results, you need to have it in the mouth as much as possible to keep it alkaline and to continually fight plaque from sticking. Gum is the best xylitol strategy allegedly because it stays in the mouth the longest.

HVBO= High Vitamin Butter Oil. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is obtained by clearing (heating and removing the 'crud') butter from grass-fed cows that ate grass during the rapid-growing season i.e. spring and into early summer.

I've taken an icecube tray, filled with a TBSP of yogurt and a tsp. of CLO and frozen it to throw into smoothies from time to time.

I've also taken grass-fed butter, softened it, mixed with 1C. xylitol, put through a Playdough press, cut into candy sized pieces and freeze to make "butter candies" for DS.

His 2 main teeth for tooth decay ARE still decaying, but they're not infected yet and it's hard to say what they'd be like without using xylitol. The chance of benefits outway any risk involved if there is even one (aside from the financial aspect, but it's nothing compared to dental surgery).

There is also a sea weed you can eat that's supposed to help. I don't know much about it, but if you look into it, let us know!

Laurie, wife to guitar.gifDH (Aug/04), mom tobikenew.gifDS1 (Nov/05) and bfinfant.gifDS2 (June/12).

 

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#9 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 12:37 AM
 
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Have you seen this tooth cleaner from tropical traditions?: http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/teeth_cleaner.htm

Your kids should like this.....I get the mint and it has the same minty flavor as conventional toothpaste, but not spicy. My 3 yo liked it right away.


When you do find liver, puree it in your processor and add it to any ground beef meals you make......maybe start with 20% and see if you or they notice. Order from http://www.uswellnessmeats.com/ if you have to.

The only other thing that you didn't mention that I thought and I'm sure you've already thought about, is to make sure she's not getting a substantial amount of junk from somewhere outside the home. Even fruit juice, unsoaked grain products, etc.

Also, load her up on fat! If craving junk is an issue for her.

And a pp mentioned k2, but isn't that what's in butter oil?

Sounds like you're doing great. Keep faith in what you're doing for her. I agree with the pp on holding off just a few months of great nutrition to see if there is any sign of improvement.
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#10 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 03:05 AM
 
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As much as diet is involved what about probiotics? Because ultimately isn't bad bacteria what causes tooth decay in the first place? And correct me if I am wrong but xylitol kills bacteria good and bad? Maybe thats not such a good idea.... Maybe there is some probiotic drink you can get them to have? maybe make whey fermented soda's? The only downsides to probiotics though is they are acidic so you would need to rinse afterwards. Just speculating....
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#11 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 05:42 AM
 
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I keep seeing this thred when I can't respond, so I'll take my chance while I have it. But it's late, so I'll be brief.

Have you looked into the possibility of gluten intolerance/celiac? Tooth decay is a classic symptom of celiac. Ds had major problems, the dentist called it "bottle rot" and said it was from night nursing. It all stopped when we went GF. Obviously there are other reasons, too, but this is one to be considered as well.

As for where to find good meat, I see you live in S. Utah. We live in western NM and get our beef from Grassroots Meats in SW Colorado. They sell lamb, too. They will ship, and living so close (relatively speaking ), shipping shouldn't be too bad. So far, they've been able to keep shipping to below $1/lb. We live close enough that they can ship ground and it gets here the next day (rarely, it has taken an extra day, but the meat was still frozen).

Christie ~ proud Mama to : 5/01, and : 3/07; and proud wife to my since 1992. We have 13 and 2 : It's looking more and more like either a farm or a zoo around here.
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#12 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMommy View Post
Have you seen this tooth cleaner from tropical traditions?: http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/teeth_cleaner.htm

Your kids should like this.....I get the mint and it has the same minty flavor as conventional toothpaste, but not spicy. My 3 yo liked it right away.
This stuff looks great, thanks! I've been able to finally, after a nice long discussion about her teeth and what needs to happen, get my dd to brush with the mint flavored (mine) tooth soap (which is total shock, she was so anti-anything mint previously). BUT my 3 yr. old ds is the pickiest creature alive and the stuff you mentioned might work just perfect for him. Do you think it works as well as the tooth soap? Does it clean off the teeth sqeaky clean-like, too?

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#13 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristieB View Post
Have you looked into the possibility of gluten intolerance/celiac? Tooth decay is a classic symptom of celiac. Ds had major problems, the dentist called it "bottle rot" and said it was from night nursing. It all stopped when we went GF. Obviously there are other reasons, too, but this is one to be considered as well.
This is very interesting. I try to avoid wheat like crazy... We rarely eat bread....BUT I also realize that even small amounts once a week (crackers, or foods while eating out, etc.) could keep the healing process from doing much.

The only thing about this...is dd started getting cavities at younger than 18 months when we were raw vegan (she was as well), and she ate tons of dried fruit (we ate no grains). I suspect that between me being raised vegan and 99% vegan while pregnant with her and all the fruit she ate (without any fat to bolster it) while a toddler...that pretty much sums up her cavity issue. We didn't come to WAP/TF until ds was 1 and dd was 3-ish.

I will still remove all traces of G from her diet, tho, because I do feel like wheat can cause problems in most folks (overuse and such). So thanks for the great connection between GF and teeth!

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#14 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks to everyone else that responded. It has all been very useful information and I will incorporate as much of it as I can.

So here's my major question that I've been pondering for a couple days now.

Dd's teeth are not causing her any pain (which is surprising because they are so rotted - maybe, if nothing else, the dietery strategies are protecting her nerves). So, would the dental surgery cause her more problems long-term, OR would just leaving her mouth alone (and focus on hygeine and diet) do more long term damage...???

What do you guys think? I could sure take that $2,000 (surgery cost) and instead spend it on good quality foods and supplements and such!

In the "curing kids' cavities" website I posted before, the father mentions that his dd had a tooth that crumbled, and since they've completely revamped their diet and healed her teeth, that tooth is still a stump, but a nice hard, sturdy, "healthy" little stump. I have to wonder if that would be possible for my dd.

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#15 of 27 Old 08-14-2008, 11:54 PM
 
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Buy the book Cure Tooth Decay by Rami Nagel ASAP. He is the one godusjourney is talking about. www.curetoothdecay.com

Composite fillings are the alternative to amalgam.


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#16 of 27 Old 08-15-2008, 01:20 PM
 
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You mentioned in your OP that the dentist wanted to "seal" some of your dd's molars. Many times they have BPA in them. Just an FYI.
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#17 of 27 Old 08-15-2008, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Now I'm feeling like the surgery is a bad idea. I was feeling like a very negligent mother for not getting her teeth fixed...but maybe I wasn't...??? She has no pain (though that's not a guarantee that it will stay that way, since a number of the decaying areas are getting pretty close to nerves).

Here's a couple pictures and explanations (hopefully you can read them) of her teeth. What do you guys think? What would you do? Fix them surgically or just work on diet/environment and at least stall the decay?? I'm just worried about all the pain (drilling, pulling teeth, etc.), chemicals (sedation, fillings, sealings), and that it might be truly unnecessary.


http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...-15-08019b.jpg

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...-15-08017b.jpg

Thanks!

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#18 of 27 Old 08-15-2008, 10:20 PM
 
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I find it interesting from a Weston Price perspective that her palate is so nice and wide. Because what effects teeth nutritionally is also supposed to effect palate width as I understand it. There might be a clue there but I don't know what it is... ?

Could she be very vitamin D deficient? That has been shown to effect enamel formation in a big way. Recent studies have shown that bf'ing mamas transfer "enough" D if they are taking in 6,000 IU of D/day. Which is close to a traditional diet. Not sure how sun factors into this. But other studies on sun and vitamin D show that it is not sufficient as the only source.

Did her palate widen greatly since birth?

(Sorry I'm not helping much!)

Rami's book is very good but you seem to know most of it already. As far as the therapeutic doses of HVCLO and HVBO goes, I would do much more than the standard 1/2 tsp of CLO providing 5,000 IU of A and 500 IU of D for her age. If you all were vegan you are most assuredly deficient in A. I don't think you can OD on butter oil and the K2 it contains. Weston Price described giving a boy with bone and teeth deformities several spoonfuls of each a day?
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#19 of 27 Old 08-15-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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And as far as surgery goes, I would be conservative if it were my child but I would do it. I would make certain that the fillings had no mercury or BPA. No sealants. No fluoride. I would go with the anesthesia but make sure I detox with vitamin C right after, perhaps the liposomal version from LivOn Labs or if I could get a dr. to do a vit. C IV.
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#20 of 27 Old 08-15-2008, 11:00 PM
 
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The one thing I didn't mention, that I remembered later (it was a lot of information to take in as he was telling me what he wanted to do)...apparently he wants to put an amalgam "crown" of sorts over the horribly rotted bottom "large" tooth (I really need to look up what all these little buggers are actually called). I do NOT want amalgam in her mouth, or anywhere near it. Anyone know what I can ask for instead? I know it will be more expensive, but I don't care. No metal for my baby, thanks.

Thanks for all your support!
Sarah

Our DD (2 yrs) went under GA in the hospital in May. We opted for the hospital setting because we felt safer with an actual anesthesia team with constant monitoring and the ability to immediately counteract a bad reaction to the anesthesia. In our situation I'm so glad we did because the 'procedure' took over four hours and involved 5 root canals and four crowns. I cannot imagine that scenario under lesser sedation in the dentist's office.

The crowns are on her four upper front teeth. Three are composite and one is stainless steel, NOT amalgam. We live in a fairly proactive area in terms on toxics and I don't think our dentist (otherwise very mainstream) even offers amalgams. The stainless steel tooth has a white window on the front so that it appears 'normal' from a distance. Its her 'lucky' tooth.

BTW, I'm impressed with the $2,000 figure. We're paying the dentist almost $3,000 out of pocket (we went out of plan) and our hmo absorbed the over $20,000 in hospital costs.

You've probably already seen this article http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr.../cavities.html but I'll link it just in case. It really brought a lot of the pieces of the ECC puzzle together for me.

One thing that we do that makes me feel better, but may be pointless is rinsing DD's toothbrush in boiling water after each use. Since her 'procedure' when all decay was removed and the teeth were professionally cleaned we've been super careful about keeping her bacteria levels as low as possible. Of course, its all guess work but I think of it in terms of limiting transmission (I'm the carrier so I never share food or wet kisses with her) and fuel (keeping the sugars that the bacteria thrive on out of her mouth). And of course all the good nutrition you're already working on.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Oh, and the argument against composite crowns and fillings other than cost is that they are more fragile. DD lost one last weekend. It was a hot 2 minutes in the office to have it filled in and the cost of an office visit.
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#21 of 27 Old 08-15-2008, 11:41 PM
 
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Here is an old thread with some of our story. I was a critical care nurse for 17 years and I would not have conscious/deep sedation in office. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...l#post10519534

The risks of in office sedation are 10 times greater for an severe outcome in the pediatric population. Check the files of the VeryYoungKidsTeeth yahoogroup for information about sedation alternatives. I did find this reference: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1351462
http://www.frankfortregional.com/CPM...20sedation.pdf

But suffice it to say, that the dentist providing the anesthesia is only one qualified person to provide resuscitation in the event of an emergency. Their knowledge of pharmacological sedation requirements for multiple reconstructions, and their equipment for emergencies is significantly less than in an hospital dental operating room setting. Additionally, the duration of sedation for extensive reconstruction is a concern in an outpatient situation. This could potentially require multiple visits.

We chose to have it all done one time. Although, all of the cavity was not removed under the two caps and they want to remove both whole teeth! So, we are in the same place as we were only $8000 later, the whole anesthesia and most caps fall off within 5 years! The age of the child compared to the useful life of the tooth is a variable also.

Personally, for extensive dental care, under general anesthesia (deep sedation such that you can not respond to pain), I would find a dentist who does surgery at the local hospital for safety. Our insurance covered about 80% as major medical.

It was an emotional and mental struggle for me to consent to general anesthesia (in the hospital even) for our son. Frankly, on an outpatient basis there is no one to back up any emergencies except 911. The key to me was the Emergency care and monitoring absent in the office, as per the research and my actual evaluation. The catch with the hospital is whether they will give pre-sedation so that separation from you is gentle and non-traumatic, imo.

Keeping a patent airway (without full intubation), while doing extensive dental work in a small mouth was too big of a risk to me. And, our son required as extensive work as your daughter.

There is plenty of time. Research the options. Really, all that has changed is that you have more information. There is no urgency, as long as she is comfortable. Find the space where you are comfortable and make a decision from that place, not rushed and hurried, pressured or fearful.

There are many alternatives beyond all work/no work, do it now/don't do it. There are a myriad of options and resources and possibilities. BREATHE. one step at a time.


Pat

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#22 of 27 Old 08-16-2008, 08:34 PM
 
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Just as an FYI, it is my understanding that amalgam is most often used underneath the crowns, whether the crown is stainless or composite, does not matter. I have a missing crown (and a couple of others still in place) where the amalgam underneath is completely exposed. I called the dentist that did it and although my records were too old to check, they said that if it looks metallic, it is almost 100% likelihood amalgam made with mercury. You need to check to be sure what they are using.

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#23 of 27 Old 08-16-2008, 09:20 PM
 
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There are a lot of potential problems with so many products they can use in dentistry. The best way to avoid them (although not a guarantee) is to find a wholistic dentist, one who will not use amalgam, and who is open to whatever questions you have about options and about what is in different products.

My son had caps put on his front four top teeth when he was 2. We made sure they did not contain amalgam (not even underneath). We were present when the dental work was done. BUT, he started to have health problems soon after. Finally, we found out the material used has high levels of aluminum in it! Even though they were composites. He had to have all four teeth pulled when he was 4.

Whatever work you choose to have done, make sure you find out what is in the material(s) being used.



BTW, I'm glad you are aware of the dangers of gluten. And now that I know what your diet was when she first started having problems, gluten certainly wouldn't be a factor. With my son, he had trouble right after his first teeth emerged, and it only got worse, not matter how much we brushed. We never did give him sugar, juice, dried fruit, but it didn't seem to matter in terms of his teeth. Our son wasn't eating gluten grains until 2, but I was, and he was nursing (one of those embarassing things when I look back at it). As soon as we went GF, his teethe stopped decaying and the teeth started remineralizing. I'm sorry it's not such an "easy" solution for you. It does sound like your diet was a factor, just in a different way. And it sounds like you're on the right track.

Christie ~ proud Mama to : 5/01, and : 3/07; and proud wife to my since 1992. We have 13 and 2 : It's looking more and more like either a farm or a zoo around here.
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#24 of 27 Old 08-16-2008, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
I find it interesting from a Weston Price perspective that her palate is so nice and wide. Because what effects teeth nutritionally is also supposed to effect palate width as I understand it. There might be a clue there but I don't know what it is... ?
Both of my kids have wide, well-formed palates, and terrible enamel on baby teeth.

There is no secret ingredient.
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#25 of 27 Old 08-16-2008, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Not sure if I'll get a reply out to everyone's comments, but thank you, thank you for taking the time to give your advice and kind words. Even with some of the slightly conflicting advice, I see plenty of nuggets of truth and experience, and am going to be able to make a better decision based on this great discussion. So thank you!

As far as dd's wide jaw goes - her papa and all of his immediate family have very pronounced lower jaw bones and so I imagine she must have inherited this. Dh's wisdom teeth would have fit in his mouth (as to why he had to have them removed - I'll save for another rant). Maybe hers will be semi-healthy.

Thanks for the advice about in-office sedation. I can see the wisdom in not doing that. I thought it odd when I first called to ask about their procedures, because both the (more) natural dentist we had been working with in another town, and the pediatric dentist we had been working with BOTH said that she would need to go to a surgery center that they do not do it in their office. I've done Versed with her for pulling both of the infected teeth, and I was okay with that because she was conscious enough to look at me if I talked to her, but even that was very scary for me. I'll look into the surgery center idea, and I'll also consider waiting a few months more while I make a very informed choice.

Thanks so much again everyone. It's been a very informative thing, asking for everyone's advice.

Thanks,
Sarah

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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#26 of 27 Old 08-17-2008, 01:16 AM
 
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I've been following this thread because I have terrible teeth and I'm looking for information on healing my own tooth decay thru nutrition, and also my DS has some worrisome spots on his front teeth. We've gotten 100% better on his (and mine ) brushing, but I'm still worried about both our diets. One thing I'd like to do is start taking HVBO/CLO, I have both, but I absolutely can't stomach the smell of the HVBO and couldn't even gag down a tblsp mixed in with a cup of tomato juice. Do these (HVBO & CLO) really work well for tooth decay, and could anybody offer any ideas on how to take them? Also, I've suspected for a while a gluten intolerance in myself and DS, but never considered that might be a factor in our dental health. Are there any resources that talk about this?

OP- sorry for hijacking your thread, I just thought it might make more sense to post here than to start another thread about the same stuff.

Bookworm read.gif , computer geek geek.gif , and single mom wild.gif to DS blahblah.gifbouncy.gif (11/06)
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#27 of 27 Old 08-17-2008, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hijack away! I know there is a huge long discussion that was going on for many months a while back about what was working for everyone re: tooth decay. If I can't find it, someone else will I'm sure.

As far as HVCLO and butter oil goes, I've put a serving of each (I have the pre-mixed kind) in a cup for each of us taking it, then filled the cup with orange juice, mixed it really good with a fork, and drank it super-duper fast with a straw. Can't taste a thing - though, I'll warn you not to smell it (it's deceivingly disgusting, imho). My 3 yr. old still doesn't realize anything is in the cup other than orange juice (and the weird way I'm standing there saying "hurry, drink!") - and he's a super picky eater. My 5 yr. old noticed, but I just tell her to drink reallllly fast and that her body with love her for drinking it. You get to the bottom and the oil is starting to separate, but if you mix it with the straw or pour a tiny bit more juice in the cup, you're good to go.

As far as gluten goes - from what I understand, basically anything attached to the digestive/eating process can hurt any part of the organs associated with it - so teeth included. Gluten intolerance also could be inhibiting proper digestion, so therefore you're not getting the vit/min you need, which then strips your teeth of their necessary nutrients. I'm sure there are other angles, but theres a couple that could probably be true. I myself haven't dealt with gluten intolerance (I generally don't do too well with grains, but they don't make me violently ill or anything), but I know folks who do, from mild to severe, and I can see how it could affect teeth. Maybe someone with experience has better things to point you towards.

HTH! Good luck!

Sarah, wife to dh, mama to dd 1/07/03 and ds 3/30/05
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