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#31 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:00 PM
 
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Their cream is $12.00 a quart.
1 quart of cream will give you a pound of butter, and like a pintish of buttermilk.
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#32 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The other farm is 62.00 a share and that share gets you one gallon a week. It's a one time share fee though. So you would need to double the share fee if you wanted to gallons a week and so on. But you only pay it once. Then there is a fee of 21.50 a month for care of the cows (milk), for one gallon of milk. You double it for 2 gallons and so on...the price per gallon worked out to be about 5.38 a gallon, which is great! She also stated that she would be able to provide cream when it is available.

But again, there is the long drive to get the milk. So we would have to go at least twice a month and freeze the milk.

J.
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#33 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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1 quart of milk will give you a pound of butter, and like a pintish of buttermilk.
I was told that you needed the cream for butter, not milk...is that not correct?

J.
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#34 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:16 PM
 
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I was told that you needed the cream for butter, not milk...is that not correct?

J.
oops that was a typo by me
Yes you need cream, whole cream and not half and half, to make butter.
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#35 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:19 PM
 
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A friend at work here mentioned something, in addition to the food safety training we always check the cleaning procedures for the equipment. And what chemicals do they use for the cleaning. And during the visit would you be able to look at the cleaning records.
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#36 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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I found interesting reading on herd shares -- what not to do primarily. This dairy is not set up in the recommended fashion, though that would not get the share owner in trouble, just possibly the dairy owner.

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#37 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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Honestly, I woudn't buy from ANYONE would be offended by my asking questions. That's just a part of customer service!! YOU are the customer.

However, my farmer too often feels she needs to clarify that farm work is hard work. And I KNOW it is!! I think that they feel naturally defensive, becasue of the nature of their product and it's bad name. (raw milk) My farmer although busy took the time to talk to me personally and through emails and I feel great about her. I wouldn't buy her milk if I didn't.

Regardless, if anyone is put off by a few (or even alot of) questions, then I would be learly of them.
K
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#38 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 09:08 PM
 
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that's really expensive for butter!! I'd just make your own from the milk and use the leftover skimmed milk to make something else or to bake with or soemthing
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#39 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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that's really expensive for butter!! I'd just make your own from the milk and use the leftover skimmed milk to make something else or to bake with or soemthing
You need cream right.....?

The cream is 12.00 a quart...is that a lot?

Also, does anyone else freeze their raw milk?

J.
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#40 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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1) Do you have health inspections, if so, by whom and how often? Have you ever had any problems with your inspections?

2) What are your standards with the cleanliness of the farm and where the cows sleep, are milked and where milk is stored? I have read that the most important aspect of a raw milk dairy farm (aside from the feed) is their cleanliness and handling.

3) How often will I be able to get cream for butter (estimated)?

4) When you test your milk, what bacteria do you test for and who tests the milk? Have you ever had any problems with the results?

57) How many cows do you own and how many cow leases (members) do you have?

6) Is there any difference in with the milk after it has been frozen, since I live so far away? Is it possible to only come one to two times a month and freeze what we need?

7) Has your herd been tested for TB and Brucellosis? If so, results?

8) Are the teats of the cows cleaned with an iodine solution before milking? If not, how are they cleaned and prepared for milking?

9) Is the milk kept in chilled stainless steal tanks?

10) What do the cows feed on....mostly grassy pasture without spray and organic hay I assume... How much grain do they get in a day and what type (is it organic)?

11) Are you organic certified? If so, with whom?

12) How many people work on your farm? Are they all family or outside employees as well?

13) Do you enjoy your business?

14) How long have you been in the business?

15) Are you open to visits? What are your hours for visitation?

J.
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#41 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe it would just be better to get a cow, lol. I live on almost an acre, are there ordinances against that LOL.

J.
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#42 of 54 Old 10-03-2008, 11:01 PM
 
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Seriously, get a mini milking goat. I would SO do that if I lived on an acre. Grass fed goat milk tastes alot like cows milk to me, and it's got to be cheaper than the $80 I'm spending on grassfed cows milk. Plus they mow grass! :
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#43 of 54 Old 10-04-2008, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Does goats milk have the same healthy properties as raw cow's milk?

J.
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#44 of 54 Old 10-04-2008, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can you buy miniature dairy cows for milk consumption?
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#45 of 54 Old 10-04-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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Can you buy miniature dairy cows for milk consumption?
That's actually what we're looking at, but we are a year or two out. We have a friend who could do AI, so we wouldn't have to take the show on the road for bulls.

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#46 of 54 Old 10-04-2008, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by festivefeet View Post
Does goats milk have the same healthy properties as raw cow's milk?

J.
We have two miniature goats. They are Nigerian Dwarfs which is the miniatre breed that is meant for milking (you can also buy miniatures of large breeds which are a cross between a Nigerian and a larger breed like LaMancha). They are pretty small, like dog size. We keep them in a pen that is 32 X 32. They do not eat the grass or weeds in their pen because they are picky. Because they are in such a small place we have to suppliment with grains to keep them milking. They can give up to 1/2 gallon a day each. We milk two, you need two goats because they are herd animals, but you can have one doe and one whether (castrated male) and they will be happy. You do not want a doe and a buck or your milk will taste awful. Ours cost around $15/month to keep. They eat one bale of hay a month, get 1lb of grain mix (1 part corn, one part oats, one part black oil sunflower seeds) at each milking and drink about 2 gallons of water/day apiece. I like to cut branches and briars to give them as treats, they also like the apples that fall on the ground.
They're easy to leash train and some people take them on walks on a regular basis.
Our goats will have paid for themselves in a year because goats milk is very expensive in our area and because our does are proven to throw triplets. They need to be bred once a year usually to keep them in milk. In our area female kids sell for around 200 and males around 100, whethers 50.
As for nutrition, goats milk is more nutritious and easier to digest than cows milk. It is often used in place of formula or breastmilk for babies. My LO is allergic to cows milk which is why we got the goats and he does just fine on goats milk.
You do need to check with your city or county to see if you can keep animals. Ours are illegal and the city knows but noone cares.
If you have any more questions feel free to PM me!
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#47 of 54 Old 10-05-2008, 08:42 AM
 
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Also, the one question I asked, that the realmilk.com site suggested, is if they dip the teats of the cow into an iodine solution before milking. Her answer to that was no. Not sure if this a great concern?

J.
I haven't read the rest of this thread but had to reply to this.

I don't know what realmilk.com is, but I had dairy goats for years and you don't want to dip in iodine before milking! That's bad news for the consumers of the milk.

What you want is someone who washes the udder if hand milking, or the teats if machine milking, with mild soap then rinses before milking.

Then AFTER milking, teat dipping (with iodine or another teat dip) is good for the animal. It prevents bacterial migration and lessens the chances of mastitis. However, it is about like asking whether a nursing mother washes or dips her nipples after nursing. There is a sphincter there which also prevents bacterial migration.

Teat dipping doesn't really affect the consumer of the milk.

And you do NOT need 'mini' dairy goats if you only have an acre. You can certainly have a single regular sized dairy goat if you give her most of your yard. If you contact dairy goat breeders and ask specifically about goats who are being bullied in the herd, or who are extremely shy by nature and don't interact as part of the herd very much, you can get a goat who can be happier as a solo goat than as part of a herd (even as a herd of two animals).

She will benefit from a bit more interaction than just throwing some hay at her and milking her, but she won't be high demand like some animals are. In fact, in my experience (I've usually gotten these type of goats, and French Alpine is my favorite breed), they just blossom without any herd pressure. They are sensitive souls and really love not having to compete. In each case, my breeder's large, happy herd is far more demanding (each goat that is) than is the wallflower in a solitary situation. But you really have to make sure that you have a wallflower. Normally, goats DO need a herd in order to be happy and well adjusted.

ETA: There are numerous studies which suggest that goat's milk is healthier for humans than is cow's milk, all other things like pasteurization, homogenization and care of animals being equal.

Goats do NOT mow lawns unless you are not feeding them enough hay. A milking goat requires a good alfalfa hay as well as a good grain ration to support her health. Natural goats do not produce more milk than is needed to feed their young, and you have to make that up to her. They are browsers, just like deer. That means that they will happily eat tree branches, shrubs and vines but do not like to eat grass. Especially the grass down near the ground. And if you do force your goat to eat that way, expect lots of parasites.

Oh, and breed choice is a very personal thing, but my full size French Alpines (which are some of the largest dairy goats) ate 1 bale of good alfalfa hay per month, on the dot, and a lb of good grain mix (I used wetCOB mixed with calf starter) per day per goat, and gave almost 2 gallons of milk apiece. I'm all about value, plus I really like the temperament of that breed (very strong willed, research breed temperaments and get out there to meet various breeds- a state fair is a good place to do so).
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#48 of 54 Old 10-05-2008, 10:02 AM
 
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Okay. I've read the rest of the thread now. First, I want to say that I applaud you, OP, for researching, reading, investigating. That is never a bad thing, and is very important in something like this.

My opinion is, you should call your county and find out what animals you're zoned for.

Barring getting your own, you should go with the dairy that tests less frequently but is more friendly.

That is not who I would go with, but it is who I think you will be happier with

The email which you quoted here did not sound angry or harsh or impatient to me, but I believe you about the others. I thought it sounded very patient. To be honest (and I'm trying to be as gentle as possible, given my foot-in-mouth tendencies, I don't think you did anything wrong), if I were her I'd be feeling a little hesitant also. Not because of the number of questions, but because you seem to be, um, very non-trusting in combination with it sounding like your questions are coming from elsewhere (and not a very good source).

I would be hesitant because I would be afraid that if you, and especially if your whole family, were to get ill from some other source like say a viral flu... that you may attempt to blame the dairy first. Because, you know, raw milk is hazardous (I'm very sorry, but objectively that is how you come across).

It wouldn't be the questions, nor the number of them, but the tone that would make me think twice.

Some of those questions come across as uneducated on the subject (but earnest, trying to become educated about this, and that's always a good thing of course) at best, and probably miseducated. That is dangerous in such a highly controversial issue.

And please accept this as the objective, nonjudgmental, nonflaming reply that is meant.

I'm just thinking of how I would feel about a potential client (as a midwife) who asked me things like whether I wash my hands or take regular showers. Or whether I, I don't know... do an APGAR assessment when the mom is 6 cm dilated? I would think hard about accepting that client because it feels like a potential lawsuit waiting to happen, you know?

Oh, and a very good reason for NOT teat-dipping after milking is if you are not overmilking with machines and inattentive or not enough attendants, and the teat dips that are effective tend to be very drying.

Here is my old milking technique:

Bring goat up to milking stand. I only had one or two goats at a time, and I kept my milking stand near my house for convenience but that is irrelevant.

After goat has put her head through, close stanchion and give her grain portion to her.

Wipe udder, belly and teats with warm water.

Wash all above mentioned areas with mild soap/warm water solution, very thoroughly.

Rinse very well with warm water.

Dry.

Place impeccably sterilized, glass or stainless milking vessel under goat. Milk into it.

For my first couple of years, I religiously teat-dipped with iodine. I had a goat who got terrible mastitis (and it is no fun, as a nursing mother, injecting abx into the teat with a syringe, let me tell you).

I later gave up the teat dip, instead I gave her a good splash with good clean water and frequently I didn't even do that after milking. I never had a goat get mastitis.

Connection? Probably not. But I don't think that there is any reason, when humanely milking an animal, that teat dipping afterward is necessary.

JMO.
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#49 of 54 Old 10-06-2008, 12:14 PM
 
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I agree with Seven Veils-- she said what I was thinking.

mom to one glorious sweetpea born 10/18/2007.

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#50 of 54 Old 10-06-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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Thank you Seven Veils. That is very good information, and very well put.
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#51 of 54 Old 10-06-2008, 06:54 PM
 
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Wow... Seven veils answered it well enough I erased my response...

I think its great that they are offering raw milk... You are very very lucky! It is actually illegal for us to purchase it were I am. I grew up with the options of raw milk, and loved how good it was, and how I felt. I hope this becomes offered again in the stores one day.
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#52 of 54 Old 10-07-2008, 02:47 PM
 
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I would not get milk from them. When I called our dairy they gave me a farm tour and answered all of the questions that you asked and more without us asking a single thing. They also have an extensive testing program. As an owner you should be able to see all paper work and results if you want. As for TB, I live in michigan and we have had cases of bovine TB in deer and a few cows. I would not get milk from cows not tested it is just too risky. We also pay 45/month for 2 gal/ week-they don't separate the cream.
I raised goats as a kid I would go that route if you can commit to it, just make sure that you get stock from a good breeder and that they are CAE and Jhonnes free.
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#53 of 54 Old 10-07-2008, 05:04 PM
 
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SevenVeils is probably dead-on, yet I can't really blame the OP either. Consumers are encouraged by the movement to ask questions. I seems like many of the questions are inspired by realmilk material. The farmer in question links to WAPF and has a webpage. I go back to my original comment that they should have a FAQ on these sorts of issues.

It is absolutely true that there are no guarantees of "safe" milk, pretty much like any other raw food (and non-raw). Regular testing is no guarantee and I would buy from Tabitha, the non-tester, if she was a neighbor.

Amanda

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#54 of 54 Old 10-07-2008, 05:37 PM
 
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The government tests many and most foods we consume. That certainly doesn't make me feel "safe" or confident. The crap they think is "FDA approved" is scary. Raw milk from someone who cares for cows, certainly is doing everything they can to provide a safe product, according to their best intentions. Same with producers of "safe", FDA approved homogenized, pasteurized whatever type of milk. We all have to choose what we trust.

Me, I'd trust a real farmer woman's idea of "safe" before the FDA, any day.


Pat

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