TF isn't making us any healthier - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is a continual source of frustration to me...I am not any healthier overall than I was when I ate the SAD, and DD, who's been TF her whole life, is less healthy than her peers. Her baby teeth are more crowded than I've ever seen in a kid, she has tons of food intolerances, and she catches every illness that comes around. Since I weaned her 9 months ago she's been sick at least 8 times, between colds, the flu, and stomach bugs. So much for a healthy diet, extended BF'ing, and no vaxing making for healthier kids

I do believe TF is the best way to eat, but sometimes I don't feel like it's worth the effort since I'm not seeing any health benefits for either of us. That's one of DH's big beefs, too, that it's a lot of work, hassle, and expense and doesn't seem to be doing any good.

This is mostly a vent, but I'm curious if there are other TF kids out there who get sick all the time. DD's already GF & dairy-free other than butter, and I don't think she's reacting to any foods now, so I'm really at a loss to explain why she gets sick so often.
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#2 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 02:31 PM
 
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for us, the things that make the biggest difference healthwise are:

NO sugars of any kind
NO white flour/etc
Supplement with probiotics for the whole family

You could probably look into other immune support in addition to probiotics, but that would be my first suggestion. My son's only had a sniffly nose 3 times in his life, and has been on probiotics almost from birth, which we initially started b/c we were dealing with thrush/yeast with nursing....
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#3 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 02:39 PM
 
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I'm curious how TF you are. Are you grinding your own grains and soaking/fermenting them? Eating fermented foods every day, taking HVCLO and BO? We're nowhere near being completely TF, but I just wondered what exactly you do on a daily basis.
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#4 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DD's been on probiotics since she was 8 months old. She doesn't do fermented anything, I do off and on. I've never seen any positive benefits from ferments, probiotics work much better IME. Yes, we do grind our own grains and soak them, eat pastured meat, healthy fats, etc. We're probably 95% TF although I can't afford and/or find pastured butter and eggs. We don't eat much sugar for the most part, I bake a lot but use a small amount of rapadura/sucanat or sorghum syrup and then use stevia for the rest of the sweetener. We take vitamin A from fish oil and a good absorbable D3 supplement instead of CLO as DD doesn't tolerate it. I don't think BO is a TF necessity, it's more of a (very expensive) supplement to take if you're trying to accomplish something particular.
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#5 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 03:02 PM
 
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Hmm. She's not getting raw milk of any kind (human or another mammal) and she has crowded teeth- maybe she's not getting enough minerals? Will she drink bone broths? If I had a toddler who couldn't tolerate milk and whom I wasn't able to BF, I'd try to get the child to drink bone broths in a sippy cup the way may kids drink milk.

It's also possible, of course, that TF IS keeping her healthier, and she'd be even sicker than she is now without your efforts. And while you're not feeling "better since giving up the SAD" you've also been pg and nursing during this time. Perhaps you'd have developed nutritional deficiencies by now (and resultant illnesses, such as depression) if you'd stayed on the SAD.

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#6 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 04:24 PM
 
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What are SAD, HVCLO and BO?
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#7 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 04:29 PM
 
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It does sound like you would like to accomplish a few things in particular: strengthen your dd's immune system and improve her dental development. I'd look at those two since you mentioned them as specific things you are dissatisfied with, and see if your TF efforts are assertively targeted at supporting those goals, and whether you feel you need to adjust things or look elsewhere for more support in those areas if necessary.
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#8 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 04:51 PM
 
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Are you sure she's tolerating butter? Just that you say she's dairy free except for that, and she's still getting sick, it makes me wonder...

I'm back and forth with how TF I am. We do pastured meats and cage-free eggs, can't do dairy, gluten-free (so no grains that need soaking), fish oil/CLO, probiotics, saurkraut, yogurt, etc. But my kids are vaccinated. DD2 and DS both have intolerances. DD1 who eats whatever she feels like (including gluten, ice cream, butter, sugar) actually catches more viruses than the other two. DD2 doesn't actually get that many viruses. I'm doing it more for long-term health benefits. All my kids are going to need braces but DH had to have braces twice because his family has a lot of teeth and small jaws (palate expanders all around). And his family ate very healthy growing up. I think overall his family was much healthier than mine (we ate pretty grossly -- mac & cheese, tv dinners, icky stuff). You do have to take family histories into consideration. You can't expect to turn something around in a couple years, at least I'm not looking at it that way, because it would be too depressing!!

My grandparents lived to be 97 and 99, eating butter and gravy and real food, my grandfather having a huge garden until his death, and eating a ton of fresh vegetables (and canned what they didn't eat fresh) and until late in life eating their own meats. And that is what I'm using as my guide to good health.

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#9 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 05:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
It's also possible, of course, that TF IS keeping her healthier, and she'd be even sicker than she is now without your efforts. And while you're not feeling "better since giving up the SAD" you've also been pg and nursing during this time. Perhaps you'd have developed nutritional deficiencies by now (and resultant illnesses, such as depression) if you'd stayed on the SAD.
: tbh that's what my gut feeling is on the issue as well.
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#10 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 05:10 PM
 
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Have you thought about going grain free? That made a huge difference for my health. I am mostly TF but I don't tolerate grains well at all, and I think it causes my body to not absorb nutrients. It could be that there's something keeping your DD from absorbing the nutrients in the food. Grains, even soaked, just aren't good for some people.
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#11 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 05:31 PM
 
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Ugh, that does sound really frustrating. Spending all the money and time preparing healthful foods, and then seeing your child have all the same problems as her peers.

If minerals are a problem, maybe some ConcenTrace could help. It's inexpensive and super easy to add to drinks and foods (flavorless unless you add too much). Someone here said she had great success with healing dental caries by adding ConcenTrace to EVERYTHING her family ate for about a year. I think they were also doing CLO, but didn't use BO because of the expense.
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#12 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 05:46 PM
 
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What's concentrace?
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#13 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 06:10 PM
 
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SAD = Standard American Diet (white flour, white sugar, high fructose corn syrup, chemically laden processed dead foods, etc.....)

HVCLO = High vitamin cod liver oil (more potent than "regular" cod liver oil)

BO = Butter oil, literally made from the oil in butter from cows that ate grass(great in combination with cod liver oil to reverse tooth decay, among other things)

Concentrace = trace mineral drops you can add to your water or drink with juice (contains primarily magnesium, chloride, sodium, potassium sulfate and boron along with many others listed in the ingredients list)
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#14 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It does sound like you would like to accomplish a few things in particular: strengthen your dd's immune system and improve her dental development. I'd look at those two since you mentioned them as specific things you are dissatisfied with, and see if your TF efforts are assertively targeted at supporting those goals, and whether you feel you need to adjust things or look elsewhere for more support in those areas if necessary.
I spent a good year and a half researching and trying all sorts of stuff to try to widen DD's palate, and as far as I can tell her teeth are just as crowded at almost 3 as they were when she was one. I don't think there's anything else I can do nutrition-wise to correct that.
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#15 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you thought about going grain free? That made a huge difference for my health. I am mostly TF but I don't tolerate grains well at all, and I think it causes my body to not absorb nutrients. It could be that there's something keeping your DD from absorbing the nutrients in the food. Grains, even soaked, just aren't good for some people.
I've done grain free at various times and it doesn't seem to make any difference. I actually feel better if I eat grains as I have trouble getting enough to eat otherwise. DD doesn't have very many foods and she'd probably starve if I didn't give her grains.
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#16 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you sure she's tolerating butter? Just that you say she's dairy free except for that, and she's still getting sick, it makes me wonder...
We ate butter for several months before I weaned her and she didn't get sick then. We ate ghee for several months before we tried butter and I didn't notice any differences in her when we started the butter. She didn't get sick during her dairy trials, either, even though she was clearly reacting to dairy.
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#17 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe I'll try Concentrace some time...it's about the only thing I haven't tried! And maybe I'll try doing more bone broths and see how she tolerates them. She loves "soup" (any sort of liquid in a dish) so I'm sure she'd be thrilled to have more of it.
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#18 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 07:38 PM
 
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What about adding back mama's milk? Ds came down with whooping cough within months of weaning. I truly think it makes a huge difference!


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#19 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 07:44 PM
 
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Maybe I'll try Concentrace some time...it's about the only thing I haven't tried! And maybe I'll try doing more bone broths and see how she tolerates them. She loves "soup" (any sort of liquid in a dish) so I'm sure she'd be thrilled to have more of it.
I think these are both great ideas. Let us know how it goes, mama!

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#20 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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I'm sorry, caedmyn. I know you've worked hard over the years. Definitely try the bone broth. It's the season anyway, so there's no loss.

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#21 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 08:19 PM
 
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I'm sorry, caedmyn. I know you've worked hard over the years. Definitely try the bone broth. It's the season anyway, so there's no loss.

Amanda

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#22 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 08:32 PM
 
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To me, it really sounds like you've got something else going on. Good eating can only get you so far if you've got an underlying problem. Ours is heavy metals, I'm sure there are lots and lots of others out there, I don't know as much about the others. Something like a hair test would be simple and not overly expensive ($75-ish from DDI if you call Direct Lab Services and mention the autism-mercury yahoo group) to look into that specifically.

Since you've got problems with things like salicylates and amines (am I remembering that correctly?) that sounds like a detoxification problem, and I'd look into other detoxification-type problems (ours is also basically detoxification but I don't know if it can manifest like it has for you). And/or maybe something odd in how your bodies work that uses those specific detoxification pathways--maybe you need a lot of something in a way that's just different from most people (similar to pyroluria and zinc).

TF/Price would not be getting the results that we are with supplements. I really think we need good foods, but without our supplements, I don't think we'd really be getting better, just maybe treading water. And I agree with the previous posters that things would likely be worse without TF.
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#23 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 09:31 PM
 
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Hey Caedmyn--

Remember me? Do you do sea salt/epsom salt/baking soda (one or all) baths?

We were gluten and dairy free (soy free anti-candida etc) for almost two years. After dd3 was born (what a fabulous healthy babe--at 9 months she weighs more than the twins did at 2 years--tho she does have mild allergies), the girls, still nursing, were fabulous for awhile, but then got sick and deteriorated into heavy adhd symptoms. Up at 4.30am til 8pm, kicking themselves to sleep; violent; incontinent; no energy;all kinds of sensory isues; it was awful. That's when I tried FAILSAFE--did you try that? It is completely at odds with NT; I had canola oil in my home. After two and a half horrible months on that, we could tolerate gluten and dairy again. (After we got down to four foods, I said "$*&^ it," and made some oatmeal in the house. And we were no worse--better it seemed.) I don't know if I recommend that diet, but it is very interesting. Be careful with the broths if you're sensitive to amines. I know that people used to bathe "sickly" children in bone broth--dead sea salts would be similar, right?

I've come to believe that these issues with our children are primarily a problem of impaired nutrition (we all know that), and that our various deficiencies lead to our unique issues (compounded by added toxins, vaccines, etc). Even after we could "tolerate" gluten and dairy, my girls didn't have solid stools. I'd been seeing a homeopath for almost two years, and while he helped me, still no solid poops for the girls. I've done some research into homeopathy and knew he had the right remedies (dd1 is hyoscamus and dd2 is lycopodium, for the most part). Anyway, I fired him but used his remedy types, putting the girls on very high potencies. right now were on LM5s, 3 times a day. I feel we need carcinosin as an intermediary because their remedies don't stick. Bottom line: solid poop for a month!!!!!!!! (I want to post in health and healing but haven't had time.) Noy only solid poop, but DD1 no longer spikes fevers, dd2's wounds/scratches actually heal now; i'm getting hugs and kisses. My children are healthier. We're not done, but the difference is amazing. Something has to happen to help the body assimilate the food you put in. For us, it was homeopathy. I also know some people have had success with herbs.

I know how hard and how long you've been working. If you want me to help you find a remedy, just email me.

Could she be cal carb? Most homeopaths won't go to high potencies; the lower ones just aggravated my girls. Amy Lansky's _The Impossible Cure_ gave me the dosing ideas....

Gotta run so dh can check election info!

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#24 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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Nicolena, when you mentioned the remedies not sticking. I had a homeopath for dd who I think got the right remedy. & gave it once at 1M. It worked like a charm for about a week. Then she ( the homeopath ) sort of lost the plot & misread her notes & sent her MMR remedy ( even tho dd has never been vaxed ) & it kinda went downhill from there so I stopped seeing her as it was too much $s for those sorts of mistakes. It was incredibly frustrating. There are no other homeopaths who are any better where I live. I can't find that book in our library so can you maybe expand on the dosage thing? You can PM me if you don't want to take the thread too much off topic.
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#25 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 09:59 PM
 
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I dont know if someone already mentioned it, but could you have gluten or dairy allergies?

ETA, never mind
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#26 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What about adding back mama's milk? Ds came down with whooping cough within months of weaning. I truly think it makes a huge difference!


Pat
The underlying problem isn't going to be fixed just because I nurse her longer, it'd just show back up once she stopped nursing. Anyhow, as of the last few times I tried several months ago she's not interested anymore, and I can't go back to the restricted diet I had when nursing her. It was too hard on me mentally.
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#27 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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nicolena--hi again Glad to hear your DD3 is healthier than your other two and that the twins are doing better. I sure hope this babe is healthier than DD!

DD is largely Failsafe although she actually has a pretty good amine tolerance, but not a very high salicylate tolerance. I don't think it's incompatible with NT, at least not if you can tolerate some amines--after the elimination diet I started soaking everything and I use high oleic sunflower oil & butter for cooking/baking, stuff like that. I just used ghee for everything during the elimination diet and used maple syrup as a sweetener and didn't soak grains/legumes.

Anyhow, I have tried one homeopath which didn't seem to help her. I'll send you a PM, I would be interested in trying to find a remedy for her. I have to be very careful what I feed her (like no legumes or whole grains, although the same grains ground into flour are fine) or she gets mushy poops, and she still hasn't "outgrown" any of her food intolerances, in fact she now reacts to oats and she didn't used to. She does get an epsom salt bath about once a week to get magnesium into her. I used to do them more frequently but they didn't seem to make any difference.
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#28 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 11:24 PM
 
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I just realized I sorta missed a whole half of what you were asking--illness. We've done illnesses. My son (2.5yo now) gets sick relatively normally most of the year, but from the start of October to late Dec or mid Jan, last year and the year before, he's been sick almost constantly--like, we get about 4 or 5 days totally healthy each fall/early winter season. Funny thing--the first year (he was 6-8mos old) he was in daycare, but the next year (18-20mo) he was still nursing and now home with me (I'm no longer employed) and it was the same--no improvement in the number/intensity/duration of illnesses. :

It's possible this year will be different, we've only had 1 mild stomach bug so far. I think the biggies for us are: zinc (I supplement a lot), vit D (CLO wasn't enough, I got him out in the sun this summer and I think that really helped) and maybe part/much of it is that _I'm_ finally doing better, physically and mentally/emotionally and I think there's a spillover effect onto him.
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#29 of 80 Old 11-04-2008, 11:57 PM
 
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Although my TF kids have robust health, I still have issues I'm working on. Ayurveda gave me a lot of insight... my practitioner explained I have a hot dry constitution and need sweet, lubricating foods- grains & dairy- but that meat was too heavy for my constitution more than once per day (can have all the bb I want) and fermented foods (including hard raw cheese) were sour which is drying, to avoid. And honestly I hate sour tastes so it has worked for me- I just do primal defense instead of ferments. And I have to avoid "hot"- even spices I wouldn't have considered hot like basil, orgeano, garlic... in favor of cooling- peppermint, dill, fennel, mint.... dh loves hot and spicy so it was a big change to switch to my cooling, lubricating diet but I thought this complemented my TF knowledge and helped me suit my particular needs.

Weston Price Foundation is working with a homeopath- Joette- who we really like and got our kids through scarlet fever without drugs, very quickly. She also mentioned to me some "bowel remedies"- nosodes made from the unhealthy bacteria that flourish in the bowels of those who took antibiotics back when they first became popular- to antidote irregular stools in patients who have been on a lot of abx. Not sure if this helps or confuses... so many options in the natural health world- but figured it might stimulate a new concept of how to make TF work for you and compensate for your pre-TF years?
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#30 of 80 Old 11-05-2008, 08:51 AM
 
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The amount of time and effort you have put into achieving health and wellness for your dd should never be underestimated. Perhaps you cannot see the changes you have made for her, but they are there...they are there for your future grandchildren, they are there for your dd's peers (they are being influenced by your changes, too), they are there for your community, for this world...I know it sounds corny, but you are doing so much not only for your dd, but for everyone and everything around you...

You are a wonderful mother, so loving and dedicated, and inspiring to so many of us. Please do not give up...know that you are on the right path, that you are doing what is right in your heart. Enjoy your family, eat what makes you feel nourished and trust that you are doing what is right.

I will pray for you and your dear family...

Hugs.
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