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#61 of 96 Old 11-17-2008, 09:49 PM
 
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OMG I look at people's faces almost everyday

Gotta run now but will be back to post pics my 5 year old round face boy! I was thinking I needed to update our palate story thread anyways. *And* he wants to be "a farmer with a fine red tractor" when he grows up.

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Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere View Post
nak

OK I read through this entire thread and I still have no clue what you all are talking about!
How does eating TF change hte palate/face shape and why does it matter? Any links I can go through?

thx
See this thread and the WAPF link in my sig.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=617414
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#62 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 03:49 AM
 
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what do you guys think of ds teeth?

http://http://i387.photobucket.com/a...Jacobteeth.jpg

when he shuts his mouth his bottom teeth are behind his top teeth, but he likes to jut his bottom jaw forward alot -making faces. i worry about this because i had an underbite. he is doing it in this photo.

i didn't find tf till after ds was born. but grew up ala adele davis and so ate a pretty healthy diet growing up and during my preg (i did flirt with low fat for awhile preconceiving, but loved butter too much to really stick with it). dd doesn't have any teeth yet, but i'll try to find a picture of her that shows her gums. im not sure since she doesn't have any teeth, but i think her palate is wider than ds's.
let's try that link again
http://http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/o...Jacobteeth.jpg

ok here's a pic with him smiling normally...
http://http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/o...acobteeth2.jpg

and here is dd...
http://http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/o...urenteeth2.jpg

mama to DS born 9/7/05, DD born 8/20/07, DS born 9/4/10 and DS born 11/26/13


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#63 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 04:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gardenmommy View Post
I think that that huge growth spurt in the teenage years is an excellent time to focus on nutritionally speaking. I've heard it said that the only other time the human body goes through more change is prenatally. Everything is changing, brain, bone growth, hormones, etc. It seems that you could do a world of good by focusing on the diet during those years. It is a shame that so many parents seem to forget about nutrition and allow their teens to just eat junk (after all, all teens drink soda and eat junk, right? It's a normal part of being an adolescent). I am hoping that having grown up on "real food", my DC will appreciate the difference in how they feel when they consume junk.
and i was just worried about feeding my kids right for the first 7years, now i have to keep it up through their teens too?

i hadn't thought about it before, but i ate pretty rotten as a teen. cold cereal or no breakfast, mnm's for lunch, and then a good dinner.

mama to DS born 9/7/05, DD born 8/20/07, DS born 9/4/10 and DS born 11/26/13


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#64 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 10:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Vaquitita View Post
Does this shirt have a triceratops on it? My DS has a shirt like that! I love it!

His teeth look good, some good space in between, but it's hard to see the overall shape of his face since he's smiling so big.
Your girl has a very nice face shape! They are a couple of cuties!
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#65 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 11:24 AM
 
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See this thread and the WAPF link in my sig.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=617414
I found this link in that thread that was interesting and quite reassuring. It says that with good nutrition some of the problems caused by bad nutrition during pregnancy and in the mothers earlier life can be corrected. Not completly but its still a relief to those of us who discovered tf later!

I shudder to think about my diet when I was a teenager. : I hope that I can keep my kids eating good food and drinking thier raw milk. Perhaps I can start disapproving of it when they hit puberty....

Ruth, mum to B (9), P (8) and T (5)

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#66 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 01:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoddessKristie View Post
Does this shirt have a triceratops on it? My DS has a shirt like that! I love it!

His teeth look good, some good space in between, but it's hard to see the overall shape of his face since he's smiling so big.
Your girl has a very nice face shape! They are a couple of cuties!
yes it does have a triceratops, he loved those pj's.

is he smiling that big? well, here's a pic of ds not smiling for comparison
http://http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/o...acobteeth4.jpg
to me, they both seem to have pretty square faces. though dd has a longer head overall, which she inherited from dh (though his was much worse as a baby than hers, he was a preemie)

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#67 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 03:14 PM
 
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Gosh, he is so cute! His face does look pretty square. His chin is a bit narrow, but it looks like his face is square from the top to the bottom of his jaw. He's so cute!
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#68 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 05:46 PM
 
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I’ll play from the other side. My kids have significant vitamin and mineral deficiencies (thanks Mom), and they actually have very differently shaped faces—my daughter is the spitting image of my husband while my son looks more like me when I was little, and they show the deficiencies in very different ways.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32570993@N06/?saved=1

For my daughter, I think the tells are her nose/nostrils that are a bit narrow and some pointiness to her chin. It’s interesting that many of her teeth have reasonable gaps, but some are crowded and it’s not in a symmetric fashion.

My son has a different shaped face and more deficiencies overall. His jawline and chin are very heart-shaped. I don’t think chins are supposed to be pointy at all, from the healthy photos I’ve seen on the WAPF and PPNF site, and his is very pronounced. It’s a little hard to see, but his bottom front teeth actually form a v pointing back toward his tongue. But I don’t think his nose is narrow, and his teeth are symmetric—a bit tight in the top front, and very tight in the bottom, but symmetric.

I’m supplementing up the wazoo to see if this can slowly change over the coming years. I guess in a decade, I’ll know!
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#69 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 09:50 PM
 
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OOH...can someone tell me if the shape of my DS's face is okay or not? I ate horribly when pregnant with him and am trying to overcome that now...it took me forever to even get pregnant with him because I was vegan for several years before TTC.

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...82/t_=41069382


this picture shows me with him...I have a horribly long face and had a lot of teeth removed and spaces made as a child, thank you mom for smoking while pregnant, eating badly and not breastfeeding me!

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...82/t_=41069382

Mama to 2 sweet gorgeous children, a 4-year-old DS and a 1-year-old DD.
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#70 of 96 Old 11-18-2008, 11:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
It’s a little hard to see, but his bottom front teeth actually form a v pointing back toward his tongue.
My DD too!

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#71 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 12:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Vaquitita View Post

Your kids are adorable! I think his teeth look great, with good room. But I'm not an expert. They both look like they have great facial structure.
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#72 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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This is an interesting discussion. I looked at the photos of everyone's kids, but honestly, I find it hard to tell about the wideness of a face. It's easier to judge by teeth spacing, I think.

My parents have slightly crowded teeth on the bottom only. I have bottom crowding, and slight crowding on top (never had braces though, and had space for all wisdom teeth). DS's baby teeth look a bit too tight to me. He has small spaces between all teeth except the two front teeth, which are so tightly packed I need to floss them once a day!

My parents both grew up in England on farms during and after WWII. They had raw milk, raw honey and fresh, organic food, but ... after the war, lots of sugar and white flour too (Dad had white bread and jam for breakfast). Unfortunately, they raised me on a fairly processed food diet.

On the bright side, DS is Japanese and grew up on a fairly traditional diet, and has great bone structure (not all Japanese do) and perfectly aligned teeth.

Anyway, now we are living in Nigeria, and I have to say, 99% of Nigerians have the most amazing, beautifully aligned teeth. Some people even have extra spacing -- it's common to see people with a gap between their two front teeth. And the kids -- well, again 99% have wide spaces between their baby teeth -- way wider than my DS! I googled a photo which looks pretty typical.

http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/im...f%20Bauchi.jpg

Globetrotting mama to DS (9) and DD (6)
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#73 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 10:57 AM
 
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Anyway, now we are living in Nigeria, and I have to say, 99% of Nigerians have the most amazing, beautifully aligned teeth. Some people even have extra spacing -- it's common to see people with a gap between their two front teeth. And the kids -- well, again 99% have wide spaces between their baby teeth -- way wider than my DS! I googled a photo which looks pretty typical.

http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/im...f%20Bauchi.jpg
That's what I've noticed, too! When we watched the Olympics, and when we sometimes watch international soccer... or just anytime we see Nigerians on TV, they have gorgeous faces. What do they eat? I know it's horribly "typical American" of me to lump the people of Africa together, but... I've always been under the impression that pretty much the entire continent is poor and there's not much food. Is Nigeria doing pretty well? Or do they just eat the right things?

It's weird, but it has already become so "normal" to have crooked teeth. Like of COURSE a child will need braces. Don't they all? Of COURSE you'll need to have your wisdom teeth pulled. Doesn't everyone? So sad...

SAHM of Kayla (11/98) Hunter (8/03) Jo (1/04) : Jared (2/05) Camelia (12/07) Hope/Chance (11/08) and Jack (12/09)
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#74 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 11:11 AM
 
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This thread is bringing back memories of being in school. The secondary school I went too took a mixture of kids from the town and the outlying villages. You could usually tell from looking at them which kids lived on farms and which didn't - they had different looking faces and were stockier. I can only think on one exception which was a friend of mine who was raised on raw milk and had terrible teeth.
It is market day today in my town and walking around looking at faces was very interesting! There were quite a few beautifuly square/round faces but they were all on much older people. I wonder if it will still be possible to spot the farm kids when my kids are in secondary school?! Kids around here were studied and the ones who lived on farms and had drunk raw milk were found to be healthier. What surprised me was that drinking raw milk was more protective against allergies and asthma than breastfeeding. Wierd!

Ruth, mum to B (9), P (8) and T (5)

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#75 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wagamama View Post
I googled a photo which looks pretty typical.

http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/im...f%20Bauchi.jpg
I'd be interested in seeing his bottom teeth (not like we can with an anonymous photo) because his chin is really pointy. Not nearly as bad as my son, but to me not really like the photos on the WAPF and PPNF sites either.
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#76 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 02:20 PM
 
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Your kids are adorable! I think his teeth look great, with good room. But I'm not an expert. They both look like they have great facial structure.

Thank you. I think they're gorgeous, but I may be a bit biased.

i was looking at the healthy babies here: http://http://www.westonaprice.org/children/babies.html
unless it's real obvious, i have a hard time telling about babies. the toddlers and older are easier.

now that we've reassured ourselves that our babies are looking good- now comes the real test, keeping it up through childhood and teenagehood so they can keep the good bone structure they started with!

mama to DS born 9/7/05, DD born 8/20/07, DS born 9/4/10 and DS born 11/26/13


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#77 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 03:45 PM
 
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My DD too!
In addition to the detox-related vitamins and minerals I'm supplementing (my amalgams and decades of pathetic eating are our main problems), I'm giving pretty hefty doses of hvclo and Thorne's K2. It's hard to be sure, but I think the V is less than it was when he was 18mos when I took him to the dentist for what turned out to be plaque in the V teeth.
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#78 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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such a funny thread!

i am so jealous of one of my neighbors teeth and bone structure. wide hips and shoulders and perfect teeth and sqare jaw. i never checked out chins though, my dd1 has a super wide face and both my dds ahve nicely spaced straigt teeth but there are always other things to overcome. important to remember that how they turn out is a combination of factors.
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#79 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 06:39 PM
 
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The following letter was written to all my family this morning.
I had to share it with everyone here.

Also, for those worried if their children will continue to follow good nutrition through the teen years and beyond, make sure to teach them the science behind eating the Weston A Price way. Show them the physical differences!!
Get them in the kitchen too, and start teaching them to cook. Even a 5 year old can start with simple things.
They will retain this information far better.
Yes, they will cheat in their teen years, but their own bodies will give them resounding feedback!

"Steve and I have been taking a single dose of the High Vitamin Cod Liver Oil/ Butter Oil blend for about 5 weeks now. This particualr blend comes from www.drrons.com.
The reason we switched to this brand, is because of what the high vitamin butter oil does for teeth.
It has been used succesfully to reverse tooth decay. Weston A Price discovered this many years ago, and the foundation along with Dr. Ron has continued to recommend its use due to the full success rate that they have observed.
So, here is my story.
I had braces in high school. The result being that I ended up with several large fillings in my molars.
One of the molars was rather weakened. The tooth had a thin wall on the outside.
About 4 years ago, an area big enough for my the tip of my tongue to fit into broke off.
It has never bothered me, so I have left it alone.
I also have 2 or 3 small cavities on the other side, that I was planning on getting filled, until I found out about the blend.
SO........2 nights ago, as I tend to do off and on, I went to check on my broken tooth, just to make sure nothing was caught in it, and of all things, the hole had shrunk by nearly half!
Now, we knew it would rebuild the cavity "tissue", or whatever its called, but this is incredible!
Upon further examination, the entire tooth has thickened up. Its no longer thin around the edges.
This is not supposed to happen, or so we have been told!
Can you imagine how much we are saving in dental bills!!!!!!
And by the way, my cavities are improving.
One reason I think its working so fast, is because we drink so much raw milk as well, so the calcium is readily available to my teeth as well as my bones.
Oh yes, don't believe that thing about the body not being able to take in calcium to rebuild bones when you are an adult. Raw milk blows that myth out of the water."

Paula, wife to Steve, mother hen to 38 , busy doing : TTC after 6
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#80 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
In addition to the detox-related vitamins and minerals I'm supplementing (my amalgams and decades of pathetic eating are our main problems), I'm giving pretty hefty doses of hvclo and Thorne's K2. It's hard to be sure, but I think the V is less than it was when he was 18mos when I took him to the dentist for what turned out to be plaque in the V teeth.
So the K2 is instead of the BO? What do you see as the advantage over BO? What do you consider to be hefty doses?





Has anyone here taken any "beauty" classes, like hair/makeup/modeling? This thread is reminding me of some that I took, and how they always emphasize that Oval is the ideal shape, followed by Oblong and Heart shapes (with some tricks to fool the eye into seeing them as Oval). But the dreaded Round and Square face shapes are the least desirable (or "beautiful) shapes and basically frowned upon. And of course you must use special techniques to "correct" them.

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#81 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 11:06 PM
 
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So the K2 is instead of the BO? What do you see as the advantage over BO? What do you consider to be hefty doses?
I'm using Thorne's K2 for several reasons: cost (per mg K2), easy to administer (high doses with just 1 drop and a very mild flavor) and (figured this one out after I'd already started) my son gets nosebleeds from even moderate (WAPF) dosages of CLO unless I give him a _lot_ of K2.

I've gone to 2x the WAPF doses for CLO at times, briefly higher, I've wavered around on how high I should go for how long. Based on illnesses when he was a baby, I figured out he was _really_ A deficient (used it to clear up an illness--not good given it's a fat-soluble vitamin). For my daughter I give 2 drops of K2 per day (1 AM, 1 PM) which is 2mg per day, which I'm guessing is plenty for her. My son gets more; the nosebleed thing runs in my family, me, my mom, several aunts and my grandmother, so something is just odd. Someday I will keep reading and figure it out.

It's always interesting how threads overlap... pages 28 and 29 in the My Research: CSS c-section syndrome causing allergies in the Allergies forum is, right now, talking about anterior and posterior tongue ties and how anterior tt (the one in the front under the tongue) is related to the V in the teeth, and both being related to nutritional deficiencies in mom, esp A and folate. And how it can be related to other problems, digestive and otherwise.
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#82 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 11:57 PM
 
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there is an add on my screen for a multi without vitamin K!
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#83 of 96 Old 11-19-2008, 11:58 PM
 
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Very interesting! I know I was deficient in folate, as DD has a pilonidal dimple--basically the mildest form of spina bifida type defect. She also has cradle cap, and I have keratosis pilaris, which IIRC might both be linked to vit A. I think I've shared this with you before, but I know I'm deficient in zinc based on prematurely gray hair, and of course I was on hbc for a long time, so...there you go.

Good to know about the K2. I have no idea how I'm going to get DD to start taking CLO again, as she stopped cooperating with it a long time ago. So, I'm glad to hear there is a work-around for the BO at least. I guess my question about it is -- is it WAPF-approved? If not, does that bother you? (I think I may remember you commenting about this on another thread a while back, but just want to make sure.) Thanks!!

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#84 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 12:16 AM
 
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Leila - i have read abt grey hair being reversable with hydrochloric acid supplementation.

tanya - what is do you buy for CLO, since you have looked at it from the $price$ (not Price) perspective?
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#85 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 12:32 AM
 
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Very interesting! I know I was deficient in folate, as DD has a pilonidal dimple--basically the mildest form of spina bifida type defect. She also has cradle cap, and I have keratosis pilaris, which IIRC might both be linked to vit A. I think I've shared this with you before, but I know I'm deficient in zinc based on prematurely gray hair, and of course I was on hbc for a long time, so...there you go.

Good to know about the K2. I have no idea how I'm going to get DD to start taking CLO again, as she stopped cooperating with it a long time ago. So, I'm glad to hear there is a work-around for the BO at least. I guess my question about it is -- is it WAPF-approved? If not, does that bother you? (I think I may remember you commenting about this on another thread a while back, but just want to make sure.) Thanks!!
I've seen cradle cap being related to yeast and biotin. Not sure if that's always the case, but my daughter got cradle cap when she was about a year and a half old and things were really stressful, and just recently (she's almost 5 now) she's been getting yeasty-looking poop with our move and a long vacation and stuff... so I've started wondering if there was a lower-level yeast issue all along, and I only really notice it when it flares.

Is it WAPF-approved? Probably not. I am intensely grateful to Weston Price and to the folks at the WAP Foundation, I wouldn't have twigged to fat-soluble vitamins on my own, nor to the methods of increasing overall nutrition in our food. But I am mostly driven by wanting to get results for my kids. The old thread in the Vaccination archives, the Nutrition/Immunology one, spoke to me in many ways--that I need to look at lots of different nutrients (so far I've just looked at vitamins and minerals, but there's a lot more in food that I am pretty ignorant of, things like specific amino acids) and figure out what _we_ need. I feel like I can see my family degenerating--my grandmother to my mom to me to my kids, and I'm completely willing to supplement to maximize my kids' potential.

I'm sorta ticked at the WAPF for their insistence that everything should be done with food. I mean--so many really unhealthy people end up finding real truth with Price's ideas, but when you get this messed up, it's just not realistic to fix as much as could be fixed (given that many of us are trying to help our kids who are already manifesting problems that took a couple generations to build) in a reasonable timeframe.

That was way the heck more than you wanted, sorry. I'm conflicted because there's so much of value at the WAPF but I think so many underlying messages that are holding people back.
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#86 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 12:39 AM
 
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tanya - what is do you buy for CLO, since you have looked at it from the $price$ (not Price) perspective?
At the moment I have lots of bottles of blue ice cinnamon tingle because I bought a case back when things were more stable. Now that our finances are (temporarily, please be temporary!) not looking good, when we need more I'm going to look into twinlabs (and hope some of their flavors are ok to the kids). But I'd skimp on other stuff before this, I think--I think one of the reasons my son is barely getting sick this fall (vs constant illness in the past) is that his vitamin D levels are finally reasonable, so I want both the D and the A. I've never looked into a separate A and D, to see if that could be more economical--I bet it could. I may look into that--and that hadn't occurred to me til now, so thank you.
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#87 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 12:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gilamama View Post
there is an add on my screen for a multi without vitamin K!
That's hilarious, I'm seeing lots of ads for k-12 schools.

ETA: http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...941070&page=28

This is the thread I mentioned above (just so I don't have to serial post any worse!).
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#88 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 12:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by leila1213 View Post
I think I've shared this with you before, but I know I'm deficient in zinc based on prematurely gray hair, and of course I was on hbc for a long time, so...there you go.
I remember we talked about this, but then didn't you try the oral zinc tally test and it was icky-tasting? Maybe you were in this thread, but a bit ago someone (I think firefaery) mentioned that that doesn't work with some heavy metal toxic people. It worked for me--the zinc sulfate was better than local tapwater, and I really was very zinc deficient (maybe still am, still supplementing). Was it possibly lead-related? Or lead-involved, maybe (with other things)? Heck, maybe you were part of that discussion, I remember it struck me that the zinc deficiency test isn't as fool-proof as I'd thought. Not sure how/where you went with the zinc thing, so thought I'd mention it.
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#89 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 12:56 AM
 
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it goes round and round. Low HCl is also linked to a lack of zinc as you can't produce HCl without adequate zinc stores. It always comes back to the big picture thing. And If the taste test didn't work I am wondering if it isn't metals in general but copper specifically affects that...zinc balances copper but if you are so low that the levels of copper are toxic does that skew the taste test? There needs to be more research on this! Noone seems to know.
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#90 of 96 Old 11-20-2008, 01:37 AM
 
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I did do the zinc sulfate and it does taste like really good water at first, then gets a metallic taste. The bottle says a delay indicates deficiency, so that's what I'm going with. I just haven't been that motivated to take it regularly for some reason.

The HCl is interesting. Sounds kind of scary though!

I'm sure we are low in copper as well.

Tanya, I agree with your take on the WAPF-supplementing thing, but somehow I always get talked down from it by my chapter leader. GAPS is her bible, which I haven't gotten through yet. Have you read that?

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