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Old 04-16-2004, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok so i have seen some ppl post that they are new vegetarians or vegans... I have been vegan under a year but wow the knowledge in nutrition i have gained has been incredible...

so heres an idea...


What are some of the vegetarians/vegans having issues or need help with? Questions? Finding local people? etc...

Anything new vegetarians/vegans want to know and see if the ones who have been on this lifestyle longer can help out...

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Old 04-17-2004, 01:12 AM
 
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Ooh! Good thread idea!

I have only been a vegetarian for about 14 months and really, really close to vegan for 8 months.
I'm still relying way too heavily on the pre-packaged Boca burgers and Morningstar Chik'N Nuggets and Corn Dogs and things of that nature. I'm not a very good cook and being the only veg*n in my house, it's hard for me to put very much effort into my meals.
I'm still pretty intimidated by tofu (I don't know why!).
We also live in a very rural area. A rural area that worships pork and beef. We don't have a natural food store and I recently noticed that the Vegetarian section at our Wal-Mart has been replaced by the Atkin's section. Nice! :
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, it's not easy for me to be a vegan at all. It's really hard sometimes. But I still love it. I know it's the right decision for me and the world I live in. I'm trying to get better at it. I really hope that more people will open their hearts and minds to a compassionate lifestyle and make it a little easier on me and the animals!
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:48 AM
 
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Hi,guys! Wanted to introduce myself- I'm Jamie, have been a vegetarian for 15 years, just recently turned vegan. Just wanted to give you encouragement...sometimes it's tough to stick with it, but it's soooo worth it. And, don't worry, it DOES get easier with time
I relied on the Boca, Morningstar stuff for a long time, too- it sure makes life convenient! But I've realized that I need to overstep my comfort zone and learn to eat foods more in their natural form...so, I'm eating alot more raw fruits and veggies, along with learning to cook more grains, soups, etc. I'm enjoying eating a whole lot more Cooking vegan/veggie meals is not as hard or as scary as it may seem. LOL.
There are ALOT of really good cookbooks out there, some even specifically for 20 minutes- and -under- meals for those on the go. I check out many from my local library. I have one I'm reading right now, as a matter of fact, by John Robbins, titled May All Be Fed- it's awesome!! Almost 200 pages of vegan friendly recipes, everything from breakfast to dessert. Yummy
If you guys have any questions, I would be happy to help- anytime! Good luck, and God bless!

JAMIE


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Old 04-22-2004, 02:53 AM
 
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Oh! About the tofu thing...I know what you mean Have you ever tried tempeh?? It's wonderful- much better than tofu, in my opinion. It's easy to prepare, and goes great on a sandwich!! A little tomato, avocado, nayonaise.....YUUUMMMM

JAMIE


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Old 04-22-2004, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok we cant be shy here....


I saw lots of posts of new vegans who said they had questions... well lets see some posted... :LOL

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Old 04-22-2004, 04:22 PM
 
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Yup--that would be me.

I've only been a vegetarian since Feb!! I am doing lacto/ovo and am not really having any problems with that (other than the fact that DH is missing meat a bit, but he's doing OK). Never was a big meat person, so I haven't really missed it at all.

I am a pretty good cook & have been checking out cookbooks from the library.

Here are my questions:

1.) What is a guideline for nutrition for being a L/O veg? I have a pretty fair knowledge about nutrition in general, but want someone to tell me the score for veggies. I mean, I am not at ALL sure that I am getting enough protien. And where should it come from? Sorry I am rambling, but do you get my question? Talk to me like I am 5. Really.

2). I have been a subscriber to Cooking Light for almost 10 years. I truly love the magazine & it often has good veggie, recipies. However, i am thinking that it probably isn't worth it for me to get it now, as there are tons of meat recipies, too. What are some really good Veg. magazines? I am looking for a recipe-heavy magazine.
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Old 04-22-2004, 05:11 PM
 
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QueetheBee...

Protein is not difficult to obtain on any diet (unless you were a fruitarian). Protein is found in all foods including fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains, legumes, and even dairy products. Protein will not be the issue.

Calcium is of much greater concern for veg*ans because if you eat dairy products, the high animal protein content will actually leach calcium from your bones as your kidneys try to find a way to deal with proteins your body was not designed to process. To flush out those foreign proteins, the kidneys use calcium from your body. So, watch the calcium!

Vegetarian Times is very recipe oriented. Veggie Life is too.

And there are a lot of free recipe hubs on the internet. One of my favorites is www.vegweb.com.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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and see what happens...an experienced vegan assists a new vegetarian....


Ahhh aint life grand...




any more ?'s


Erin pretty much covered everything... and also make sure if ur lacto/ovo ur not using dairy to compensate for meat... dairy should still be limited... cuz of the leaching calcium...

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Old 04-23-2004, 05:24 PM
 
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1.) What is a guideline for nutrition for being a L/O veg? I have a pretty fair knowledge about nutrition in general, but want someone to tell me the score for veggies. I mean, I am not at ALL sure that I am getting enough protien. And where should it come from? Sorry I am rambling, but do you get my question? Talk to me like I am 5. Really.

2). I have been a subscriber to Cooking Light for almost 10 years. I truly love the magazine & it often has good veggie, recipies. However, i am thinking that it probably isn't worth it for me to get it now, as there are tons of meat recipies, too. What are some really good Veg. magazines? I am looking for a recipe-heavy magazine. [/B][/QUOTE]

**1. You should check out the vegsource.com board. Joann Stepaniak runs a vegan living board there as well as Bryann Clark (hers is new vegetarians board) and they're both super cookbook authors as well. They can provide the nut'l facts for you!
**2. Vegetarian Times is great for ovo/lacto recips. MANY recipes.

Kimberley
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Old 04-23-2004, 05:57 PM
 
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The tip that's been most helpful to me is to plan your meals around the vegetables, then add whatever protein goes well w/your veggies.

Don't forget nuts and beans (canned ones are convenient--rinse thoroughly to get rid of the gas-causing stuff) as protein sources.

My favorite convenience food is marinated tofu. Slice up a whole pack of tofu (or the leftovers after making some other recipe), make a sauce, and put them together in a container that seals tightly and doesn't leave a lot of air above the food. This will keep for a week or two (depending on the sauce) in the refrigerator. For a quick meal, heat some of the tofu w/leftover rice, or use it cold as a topping for spinach salad. My favorite sauce is 2 parts soy sauce, 1 part apple cider vinegar, garlic, ginger, and a little honey.

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Old 04-23-2004, 06:57 PM
 
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Hi! I've been veggie for 12 years and am now going more vegan. I do eat eggs though, as my brother has pet ducks that lay eggs all the time. Either they lay there going to waste (unfertilized), or someone eats them.

I, too, ate a lot of prepackaged veggie foods for a long time. I'm trying to cook more now with staples and produce.
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Old 04-24-2004, 08:25 PM
 
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I've been vegetarian for fifteen years, sometimes eating fish, but I think I want to try vegan. The only other time I tried was when I was first pregnant with my dd, needless to say, that didn't last long. So, now that dd has been joined with ds and dh, who probably won't be too keen on the vegan idea, how can I fit it in without cooking a whole different meal for myself?

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Old 04-28-2004, 06:58 PM
 
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I have hesitated posting on this thread, as I do not wish to start a food fight. But I feel that this is of extreme importance. Speaking as a former long-term vegan (5 years), the best advice I can give to any veg*n, new or old, is to please please please ensure that you are getting EFA's. Also, if you are extremely strict whole foods like I was (i.e., no packaged foods, only whole grains, strictly organic), please find a good source of supplementation like a whole foods vitamin/mineral supplement to add to your diet. Since I did not have any fortified foods, I think that I was not getting enough vitamin D in my diet (I live in a cloudy northern climate, you might not have a problem in sunnier areas, also L-O vegs would probably be okay too). Also, please please please soak your whole grains and beans overnight before cooking them to neutralize phytic acid, which inhibits mineral absorption. I am suspecting that this was part of the cause of my mineral deficiencies.

On the EFA and nutrition issue, please listen to Dr. Michael Greger's online talk about optimum vegetarian nutrition. He is a vegan doctor so you can be assured that this is not sponsored by a meat or dairy interest, and also his site is hosted by VegSource. He found in studies that documented death statistics for vegetarians and vegans as compared to omnivores and found no difference in mortality rates for veg*ns as omnis. This was a very large study that followed 8,000 veg*ns for 18 years. There was also no difference in the cancer death rate, fatal stroke rate, and fatal heart disease rate. The most disturbing finding though, was that veg*ns had a 50% greater risk of dying from degenerative brain diseases. So please, please, please get your EFA's. http://www.veganmd.org/talks

Best of luck to all of you! As far as diets go, I still think that veg*ns are usually better off than the SAD dieters (as long as you're not a junk food veg*n).
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:12 PM
 
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Well I was just about to announce my intentions to vegan (already veg) and lose this stubborn baby weight, but now I'm kinda freaked! So, are you saying veganism is unhealthy, or healthy as long as you do it right? I would still appreciate some inspiration, recipies, knowledge on the vegan front tho. Thanks.

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Old 04-28-2004, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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veganism is quite healthy.... you must like everybody else does eat properly.... eating a poor vegan diet is jus as bad as the sad diet.... eat lots of varied foods such as nuts, seeds, beans, legumes, grains, etc... www.vegfamily.com is great for info for you and your vegan family and www.veganforum.com has lots of vegan info... altho lacking since we are still recovering after a virus hit...

i have many sites that are great for people transitioning to veganism and i will post them.. but right now dd is bugging for a drink.. i shall be back...

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Old 04-28-2004, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Vegan FAQ

Veganism in a nutshell (good info)

Goveg.com

Factsheets

Farm Sanctuary Vegan Info

PCRM VEGAN INFO


I will update more soon... i lost my last list due to the fact i had shutdown my internet explorer... :mad so i want to save it now...

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Old 04-28-2004, 10:25 PM
 
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I am a bit time constrained at the moment, but will try to post some links to studies that show a vegan diet is not going to kill you soon .

I, personally, have been vegan for a little over 15 yrs & was o/l vegi for 3 years prior to that. I never relied too heavily on convenience food b/c there didn't seem to be much vegan convenience food 15 yrs ago & I was a teenager, so I just ate a lot of sandwiches, etc. !

It truly is not that hard to eat a healthy vegan diet - the ADA wouldn't have issued a statement that a vegan diet is perfectly healthy for all ages if it were so difficult to do. I tend to find that you get the most scary comments from former vegis, so don't be too worried!
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:56 PM
 
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Thank you so much ladies for the links and reassurance, I know you all are busy.

Mama to 3:
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isosmom
Well I was just about to announce my intentions to vegan (already veg) and lose this stubborn baby weight, but now I'm kinda freaked! So, are you saying veganism is unhealthy, or healthy as long as you do it right? I would still appreciate some inspiration, recipies, knowledge on the vegan front tho. Thanks.
I think any extreme diet like only protein or strict veganism is not healthy for the long term. I think that as a short term thing, veganism can be good for cleansing. Some people I've heard can make it work for the long term. I was not one of those people, and I feel really bad about the damage that I may have done to my child being vegan while pregnant and lactating. DD developed tooth decay, her teeth are coming in crooked, and she had eczema until we started changing our diet and adding in EFA's. Thankfully though, she is in relatively good health otherwise, and at least her ears don't stick out (which is a sign of prenatal nutritional deficiency, as well as the crooked teeth thing). And the tooth decay has now stopped progressing.

I wish that I had know a few things while I was vegan, especially about the EFA's, and I feel that I would have been better off. I wish that someone would have pointed me to the Vegan MD, because maybe I would have listened to a vegan source. I wish I would have known how important Vitamin D was if you weren't supplementing and especially being in a cloudy climate. I wish I wish I wish. But I was intent on following dogma instead of my heart.

To those of you who can make it work for the long term, three cheers to you! And I mean that sincerely. I still eat strictly vegan outside of the home because I can't trust anyone else's animal sources. I at one point made my daughter's shoes out of hemp twine because I did not want to buy leather and synthetic is also offensive to me as well. I am a non-vegan vegan.

I would recommend doing the research yourself and making your own decisions from there. Basing all your beliefs solely on pro-vegan sites is like asking the dairy council why you should drink milk. Check out both sides, listen to your body, and go with what works for you. Best of luck!
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:12 PM
 
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[QUOTE=toraji]I feel really bad about the damage that I may have done to my child being vegan while pregnant and lactating. DD developed tooth decay, her teeth are coming in crooked, and she had eczema until we started changing our diet and adding in EFA's. Thankfully though, she is in relatively good health otherwise, and at least her ears don't stick out (which is a sign of prenatal nutritional deficiency, as well as the crooked teeth thing). And the tooth decay has now stopped progressing.[QUOTE]

For every story like this, you can find one just the opposite. A good friend of mine was omnivorious while pg with her older dd & went vegan when her little girl was almost 4. Her daughter suffered from severe eczema, rashes & poor health until they went vegan. Since becoming vegan, her dd is very healthy & has beautiful skin. Whenever she eats meat or dairy, she breaks out in rashes.

Toraj- I am curious where you got the info that prenatal nutritional deficiency causes crooked teeth, eczema, and ears that stick out. I hope that this doesn't sound mean, but I have never seen any studies that show anything like that, and I am curious if you have some actual studies.

Because I am curious, I searched the National Library of Medicine's online database of medical articles. It is pretty comprehensive & can be found at:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&itool=toolbar

Re teeth and prenatal nutritional deficiencies, I only found a few studies done on rats that found that protein energy malnutrition during the prenatal period could result in poor tooth enamel in the infant rat.

Re eczema & prenatal nutritional deficiencies, I found nothing. I also tried searching for skin & prenatal nutrition - it turned up things on vitamin D deficiencies in dark skinned women and such, but nothing relevant to skin problems in an infant who was born to a mother with poor nutritional status during pregnancy.

Re ear formation & prenatal nutrition, again there was nothing.

I am very skeptical of suggestions that veganism causes nutritional deficiencies unless you are eating junk or a very limited diet. Both of my girls weighed in at well over 8 lbs at birth - I was vegan for 10 yrs before my 1st pg & all through pg & lactation. They are very healthy girls.

I am not basing my beliefs on vegan sources. The American Dietetic Assn is not a vegan organization - I worked in the Food Science Dept. at a research university for a while &, believe me, dieticians don't go out of their way to promote vegan diets! I also have a Masters degree in Public Health, and again was not indoctrinated in vegetarian philosophy in school. The ADA abstract is, as follows:

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Approximately 2.5% of adults in the United States and 4% of adults in Canada follow vegetarian diets. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat, fish, or fowl. Interest in vegetarianism appears to be increasing, with many restaurants and college foodservices offering vegetarian meals routinely. Substantial growth in sales of foods attractive to vegetarians has occurred, and these foods appear in many supermarkets. This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids, and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Although a number of federally funded and institutional feeding programs can accommodate vegetarians, few have foods suitable for vegans at this time. Because of the variability of dietary practices among vegetarians, individual assessment of dietary intakes of vegetarians is required. Dietetics professionals have a responsibility to support and encourage those who express an interest in consuming a vegetarian diet. They can play key roles in educating vegetarian clients about food sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and any dietary modifications that may be necessary to meet individual needs. Menu planning for vegetarians can be simplified by use of a food guide that specifies food groups and serving sizes. J Am Diet Assoc. 2003;103:748-765.

The entire statement can be found at:

http://www.eatright.org/Public/Gover...s/92_17084.cfm
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Old 04-30-2004, 01:14 AM
 
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I have had an improvement of health since becoming vegan. I make sure to take my EFAs every day and take a supplement made for vegans a few times a week. I had all of my nutritional levels tested a few years ago, which were all perfectly normal, and saw a nutritionists who said my diet was fine and recommended some good food sources of EFAs like putting pumpkin seeds into salad, etc. When we are ready to have children, I will have a vegan pregnancy, nursing, and raise my children vegan. It really isn't hard to make sure you are getting the right amounts of everything as long as you are aware of the needs and levels in food and eat a healthy, balanced diet. With children, you simply need to know how children's nutritional needs differ from adults and how to meet those needs with vegan foods. When we get that far, I will make sure that I plan my children's meals to meet their needs until they are old enough to just eat whatever I make for the family. There are quite a few books to help with vegan adult nutrition as well as pregnancy and childhood.

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Old 04-30-2004, 01:46 AM
 
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First off, let me emphasize that I am very happy for anyone who can make a strict vegan diet work for them. I wanted it to work for me. But it did not. So please don't take this as an attack, ok?

ChristaN, I am so glad to hear about your friend's dd's health improvements. Eczema is such a horrible thing to deal with, I can totally sympathize. Was she eating conventional meat/dairy? That stuff, as we have all heard before, is not so good for you. Animals fed their natural diet and their products consumed in a whole state (i.e. not pasteurized or homogenized milk) do not give the problems that the factory farmed (even traditional organic) stuff. More info about this here: http://www.eatwild.com/

Quote:
Toraj- I am curious where you got the info that prenatal nutritional deficiency causes crooked teeth, eczema, and ears that stick out. I hope that this doesn't sound mean, but I have never seen any studies that show anything like that, and I am curious if you have some actual studies.
If you read my last post carefully, you will see that I did not link prenatal nutrition deficiency to eczema. I have a suspicion that since I was lacking in EFA's, that may have contributed to the eczema. But that's all I have, a suspicion, so that's why I did not connect it concretely.

On the ears that stick out and crooked teeth, look at the pictures in _Nutrition and Physical Degeneration_ by Weston A. Price. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you've been bombarded with this before. But please keep in mind that the Weston A. Price Foundation is the work of Sally Fallon etc. who are responsible for the book Nourishing Traditions. This book, as a friend of mine says, is only one interpretation of Price's work. WAPF has some great things to say about nutrition, but I disagree with their high amounts of animal products recommended and their militant tone. The book by Price is his actual work studying native tribes in perfect health, and what happens as soon as poor nutrition is introduced. The pictures are amazing. People with wide, strong faces that give birth to children with rampant dental decay, narrow jaws, and ears that stick out, all because of their diet. If you read it with an open mind, and acknowledge Price's biases (he was really into cow butter, and did not mention much about vegetation in the native diets), there is some good info in there.

Also, Dr. Stanley Bass (big Natural Hygienist guru) has info on his site about the dangers of strict vegan diets here:http://www.drbass.com/generations.html
That is a link to a snippet of the full article that you can download. It is an interview with a doctor who studied 3 generations of strict Natural Hygienists and the problems that ensued.

Chet Day also has good info on his site about veganism:
http://chetday.com/vegetarianarticles.htm

And as I have mentioned before, an omni diet is not the magical cure-all diet either. Plenty of nutritionally deficient people have been born to omni parents. My half-sister-in-law is one of them, her parents were junk food omnis. She looks deathly ill most of the time and her ears stick out like twin stop signs. Her teeth are riddled with cavities, too.

Quote:
I am very skeptical of suggestions that veganism causes nutritional deficiencies unless you are eating junk or a very limited diet. Both of my girls weighed in at well over 8 lbs at birth - I was vegan for 10 yrs before my 1st pg & all through pg & lactation. They are very healthy girls.
I was exceedingly strict about my veganism, completely whole foods, everything made from scratch including tempeh and tofu, nut milk, freshly ground flours, etc. I did not eat any packaged foods (and thus no fortified foods). I made sure to eat plenty of fruits and veggies. I ate plenty of nuts, grains, and beans. I ate huge portions. I did not "cheat" at all. I think my problem was that with my whole foods attitude, I felt that supplementation was unnatural. After all, why rely on a little pill for nutrients when it's better to eat the whole food, right? And my diet should have been plenty sufficient to cover all my bases, because I believed what everyone said about vegan diets being healthy even through pregnancy/lactation instead of listening to my body. I did make an exception for B12, which I got from nutritional yeast. And later during the pregnancy, I got a bit worried after reading about possible problems with vegan diets and started doing a little supplementation with a vegan multi-vit/mineral. But I felt healthy, I rode my recumbent bike up until 3 weeks before I gave birth, my baby was born at home after a 7 hour fairly easy natural labor, and she was a healthy 8 1/2 pounds. I did not notice any problems until after a few months of lactation, and started ignoring the problems in myself. Then noticed DD's teeth coming in crooked, and then the tooth decay. That's when I started heavily questioning my diet.

If you are interested, I can post some of my food journal entries when I was trying to figure out what was causing her eczema. I would love your input as to if you can see where I was deficient, especially with your nutrition research background. BTW, I made my statement warning about basing beliefs on pro-veg sources b/c those were the links that were posted to reassure isomom when I made my earlier post.

Like I said before, my girl was very healthy besides the crooked teeth and the decay. But since changing our diet I have noticed a major difference in myself, my husband's, and especially DD's health and mental abilities. That is just my experience though, YMMV.
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Old 04-30-2004, 04:58 PM
 
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Toraji,
Your experience resembles mine regarding whole foods veganism.
There should be a support group for folks like us. I used to make my own miso, tempeh, natto and tofu. A vitamin pill never entered my mouth for the same reasons you listed. I thought I had every nutrient covered.

I used to joke to dh that the only way veganism works is to consume packaged fortified foods (of which we never consumed since everything was made from scratch- still is but we are no longer vegan).
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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Toraji,

I did look at the sites that you linked. The Dr. Bass link was entirely an interview telling a circumstancial story of one family that developed illnesses that they attributed to their vegan diet. It contains no scientific studies that show vegan diets to cause the problems that they describe.

The Chet Day site appears, at a brief glance, to have some religious basis which always makes me a bit hesitant about whether concerns are based on someone's belief about what God wants us to eat. That aside, the only true studies that I saw linked were very small (e.g. - 2 babies whose vegan moms had B-12 deficiencies & thus caused health problems for the babies). None of the studies directly seemed to say that vegan diets were unhealthy, just that if you consume no sources of B-12, you or your kids can get sick. Since most soy milk, cold cereals, etc. are now fortified w/ B-12, & our B-12 requirements are so low, this should not be a concern unless you eat no packaged foods at all, no vitamins & no nutritional yeast.

I must admit that I do think it to be a bit rude for omnivores to post a series of warnings about how unhealthy a vegan diet is &/or how difficult it is to follow healthfully on a thread that is designed to help new vegis. Vegiemom got slammed for responding to a thread about raising rabbits for food with a different vegi perspective. How is this different?

If you started a thread about organic meat & asked for advice on the best meats to support your health, would it not irritate you if I started posting about how meat is unhealthy & you & your children will suffer terrible consequences from eating it (unless you are one of the few lucky individuals who can get away with such a deficient diet)? Can't vegetarians support one another with healthy eating ideas without having non-vegetarians trying to scare the new vegis out of this diet?
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Christa I totally agree ... well said... i am kinda get sick of all the veg threads that are now being hijacked and then ends up turning into a veg vs omni debate... I think now do the vegetables feel pain is an ongoing debate for veg vs omni which has nothing to do with the question at hand... oh well...

Cant we all jus get along

Seperated, Cape Dress Wearing, Covered, Conservative Mennonite Mama to big girl K.
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Old 05-01-2004, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I got this really cool informational package today in the mail.. i ordered it a few days ago... its awesome has lots of info... including nutritional info and guildines etc... and in an easy format to understand...

Vegan Outreach Starter Pack (this is what i ordered and lots of great info)

Vegan Outreach This site is awesome has lots of info.. i hope some of the new vegans/vegetarians find it useful...

i hope the new vegans/vegetarians order this starter pack... its great...

Seperated, Cape Dress Wearing, Covered, Conservative Mennonite Mama to big girl K.
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Old 05-01-2004, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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does anyone want info on EFA's.... or have any other specific questions if anyone has been scared by a vegan diet...

Seperated, Cape Dress Wearing, Covered, Conservative Mennonite Mama to big girl K.
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:38 PM
 
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I have started a new thread with my responses to the above points. My apologies for further disrupting this thread.
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Old 05-01-2004, 01:09 PM
 
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Don't ya think? A place where we can support one anothers lives and questions and convictions in raising and maintaning a vegetarian family?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricia80
Christa I totally agree ... well said... i am kinda get sick of all the veg threads that are now being hijacked and then ends up turning into a veg vs omni debate... I think now do the vegetables feel pain is an ongoing debate for veg vs omni which has nothing to do with the question at hand... oh well...

Cant we all jus get along
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Old 05-01-2004, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yes i believe these debates need to be squashed and if a person asks for vegetarian/vegan only info or what not then those only need to respond... and not former vegs who arent unless they are not vegan bashing or such... if they feel they need to let the person know there experience then maybe pm them... i dunno know.. im glad i have my vegan only forums i belong to... :LOL

Seperated, Cape Dress Wearing, Covered, Conservative Mennonite Mama to big girl K.
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