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-   -   breastmilk isn't vegan (http://www.mothering.com/forum/366-vegetarian-vegan/226536-breastmilk-isn-t-vegan.html)

rastamama 12-14-2004 09:21 PM

: I need help.

This is the second time I have been told my daughter isn't vegan because she breastfeeds both times i just thought the person was an idiot and didn't really argue, but i guess i need a good comeback, because it seems to be a problem for people to understand. any good comebacks or quick responses to keep on hand would be great. what would you mamma's say?

tia

momto l&a 12-14-2004 09:25 PM

Your feeding your dd the very best food she could have and they think formula would be better so she can be vegan!?

no smart come backs just your right, they are idiots!

nak

BinahYeteirah 12-14-2004 09:30 PM

Maybe ask if the person thinks you are an animal (Like, "What!?! Are you saying I'm an animal!?"). If they say "no", then tell them that your dd isn't eating an "animal product". Maybe that's not a very good comeback since I can see people starting a discussion about whether humans are animals, etc. and that isn't really relevent. You give the bm freely, so obviously you are not infringing on "animal rights". People are weird.

Meiri 12-14-2004 09:44 PM

We are what we eat, correct? Therefor, since you are Vegan, your milk is vegan milk. No animal products went into it, only whatever you are eating.

Look at them like they have just sprouted another head and in all seriousness ask how feeding her something known to be less healthy is good when part of the point of being vegan is to be healthy.

Another possibility along the lines of what Binah Yeteirah said: Are you as the mother mammal not allowed to voluntarily feed your own baby your own milk? Look really confused when you ask them that one.

Alternatively, tell them they are idiots. Speak truth to stupidity.

iamama 12-14-2004 09:47 PM

Say,. I'm willing to risk it.

ETA: while rolling eyes

Simplicity 12-14-2004 10:28 PM

Honestly, I think anyone who says that is trying to get under your skin and get a reaction from you. I'd just look at them and say, "don't be an idiot". And that's the end of it.

And if they don't understand it, I'd probably educate them instead of coming back with a witty comeback. If they're willing to throw out something like that they better be willing to learn more.

tboroson 12-15-2004 02:46 AM

Are you being challenged by other vegans who are questioning your dedication, or by non-veg*n people who are looking for ways to mock you? Either way, fornicate 'em

moondiapers 12-15-2004 03:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rastamama
: I need help.

This is the second time I have been told my daughter isn't vegan because she breastfeeds both times i just thought the person was an idiot and didn't really argue, but i guess i need a good comeback, because it seems to be a problem for people to understand. any good comebacks or quick responses to keep on hand would be great. what would you mamma's say?

tia
I guess I've never thought of breastmilk as vegan because we are animals, therefore it is an animal product. However, it's the only animal product your child needs And once they have weaned they can be vegan.

Maybe a good comeback would be.."ofcourse she isn't vegan, she doesn't eat food yet"

I dunno, I've never encountered anyone that cared one way or another wether or not breastmilk is vegan.


-Heather

moondiapers 12-15-2004 03:06 AM

ooops, I just saw your child's age in your siggie so I guess my comeback won't work, sorry

mamajama 12-15-2004 03:27 AM

It sounds like more of a support and advocacy issue. It sounds to me like this person is undermining breastfeeding. My witty retort would be (dripping with disdain of course) "That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard." End of conversation.

amethystrse 12-15-2004 03:28 AM

: I have to be honest. I used to be one of those people who thought that and I still wonder it. I mean, I think of humans as animals in the sense that we're mamals and we're living creatures and whatnot. Any kind of milk, human or not, has animal proteins. But, there's one big difference...

Human milk is meant for humans! And as a mother it is totally 100% natural for you to give your child milk from your own body. The same with every other mamal on this planet. There are even vegan primates who give their babies bm. Does that mean that the animal who is naturally vegan is only so after they stop drinking their mother's milk?

IMO anyone who tries to make a stink about it is just trying to get on your nerves or something. Do you really care what people want to label you or your children? That's all it is. A label. A word. If someone wants to say your child isn't vegan because she drinks bm oh well. I personally would just roll my eyes and continue on. Why add fuel to a fire? Afterall, it's only semantics (sp?).

kaydee 12-15-2004 04:12 AM

Ugh. That's just stupid. : And I'd say so. I'd maybe also ask, "What's your point?" to whoever is saying that.

kama'aina mama 12-15-2004 05:00 AM

That's a pure distortion of a definition. It's like claiming that someone born without hands isn't a human because they don't have an opposable thumb.

Your milk is not a dairy product. You are not in any way exploited against your will to provide milk to your DD. It's a pointless and specious arguement. These people are trying to push your buttons. Don't let them.

amyandelle 12-15-2004 05:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiri
We are what we eat, correct? Therefor, since you are Vegan, your milk is vegan milk. No animal products went into it, only whatever you are eating.

Look at them like they have just sprouted another head and in all seriousness ask how feeding her something known to be less healthy is good when part of the point of being vegan is to be healthy.

Another possibility along the lines of what Binah Yeteirah said: Are you as the mother mammal not allowed to voluntarily feed your own baby your own milk? Look really confused when you ask them that one.

Alternatively, tell them they are idiots. Speak truth to stupidity.
ITA!!!

BinahYeteirah 12-15-2004 06:13 AM

Tell the idiot that a vegan not breastfeeding because it "isn't vegan" is the equivalent of vegans trying to prevent animals from nursing their young or trying to stop predatory animals from hunting each other. It just doesn't make any sense. I can envision a future utopia in which all animals will be a peace with one another (the lion with the lamb, etc.), but I can't envision a utopia without breastfeeding.

I read in The Sunfood Diet that mother's breastmilk is the most karmically positive food available for humans. Even if one does agee with *all* the author's ideas (it is written from a vegan raw foodist's perspective), this point makes perfect sense to me. Breastmilk is not only given freely, it is given with love and contact that is nourishing in itself.

In any case, it is probably not worth your time to say any of this. Just say, "That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard," as mamajamma recommended.

captain optimism 12-15-2004 08:15 AM

I read in the Vegetarian Resource Group's Simply Vegan that ALL vegan babies should be breastfed as long as possible.

I had no idea there were people foolish enough to assert that breastmilk was not a part of a vegan diet.

love2all 12-15-2004 10:49 AM

OMG---

some people are idiots

QueenSheba'sMom 12-15-2004 10:58 AM

ITA, human milk is for human babies.

otherwise, animal milk is *absolutely* not vegan and is very exploitative.

but human milk is a natural bodily fluid that belongs to the baby. it's the extension of the transition from pregnancy. the milk belongs to baby as much as it does to you. it is a very essential part of the baby's further development.

when they're in utero they live off of you, too. is that vegan? puhhhleeeaaase.

you share a body for a while. even after they're born.

lanolin, like lansinoh, on the other hand, is not vegan.

root*children 12-15-2004 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
That's a pure distortion of a definition. It's like claiming that someone born without hands isn't a human because they don't have an opposable thumb.

Your milk is not a dairy product. You are not in any way exploited against your will to provide milk to your DD. It's a pointless and specious arguement. These people are trying to push your buttons. Don't let them.

sheesh. some people just wanna pick fights, huh? ideeeeeots.

rastamama 12-17-2004 08:55 PM

Thanks Mammas

for all the ideas, i have been challenged both by a vegan and a non vegan and i think both times they were trying to belittle me. trying to make me seem like a hypocryte or something, but i know i'm doing the best for my daughter so who cares about thier hangups right? just wanted a few ideas of snappy comebacks, i like " that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard"

and thanks for the links!

Charles Baudelaire 12-17-2004 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rastamama
: I need help.

This is the second time I have been told my daughter isn't vegan because she breastfeeds both times i just thought the person was an idiot and didn't really argue, but i guess i need a good comeback, because it seems to be a problem for people to understand. any good comebacks or quick responses to keep on hand would be great. what would you mamma's say?

tia
How about, "Oh, guess you're right."

Whether you agree or don't, what are they going to come back with? Nothin' that I can think of.

Good for you, Tia. Basically, who cares what idiots say?

saritabeth 12-17-2004 09:01 PM

Im sorry, that is just the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I would just moo at them

FoxintheSnow 12-17-2004 09:02 PM

people say the dumbest things!

AngelBee 12-17-2004 09:02 PM

How dumb can people be?????????? Seriously, that is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard!

root*children 12-18-2004 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by saritabeth
I would just moo at them
:LOL :LOL :LOL

PikkuMyy 12-18-2004 06:59 PM

Yes, this is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard from meat-eaters, although I haven't heard it myself. As for the vegan who was saying it to you, as her/him "What would you like me to do? Feed my baby on cow's milk?"

candiland 12-18-2004 07:22 PM

Actually, "vegans" do not eat OTHER species' meats and fluids. You can eat breastmilk, placenta, - heck, ass, for all I care! - and it's still vegan.

Charles Baudelaire 12-18-2004 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by candiland
Actually, "vegans" do not eat OTHER species' meats and fluids. You can eat breastmilk, placenta, - heck, ass, for all I care! - and it's still vegan.
MMMM. Ass!

shaper 12-18-2004 10:26 PM

nak

my dad is ALWAYS teasing w/the breastmilk vegan thing........ it gets so tired, really. but he has a real dorky sense of humour so i just tell him it wasnt funny the first time

melissa

Ruthla 12-20-2004 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by candiland
Actually, "vegans" do not eat OTHER species' meats and fluids. You can eat breastmilk, placenta, - heck, ass, for all I care! - and it's still vegan.
Are you saying that somebody could be a vegan cannibal?


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