Vegans are harming their kids? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 32 Old 02-21-2005, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you seen this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4282257.stm

Quote:
Putting children on strict vegan diets is "unethical" and could harm their development, a US scientist has argued.
Lindsay Allen, of the US Agricultural Research Service, attacked parents who insisted their children lived by the maxim "meat is murder".
Animal source foods have some nutrients not found anywhere else, she told a Washington science conference.
Wonder how all those Hindus in India manage to survive all these years

mind you, I'm a carnivore myself, but this seems silly.

(sorry if this should be elsewhere, move it if needed )

nothing more to say I guess :
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#2 of 32 Old 02-21-2005, 09:45 PM
 
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man i hope my mil doesnt hear/see this
ill never be able to have her over for dinner again,...........hmmm maybe i should tell her
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#3 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 11:51 AM
 
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im here and i have issues with this...

ok so i will admit the title of the thread got me heated b4 i read... :LOL

that article is BS.... i sooo hate close minded individuals...

i can show you lots of vegan mamas prepregnancy, postpregnancy, and raising beautiful wonderful healthy vegan children.... my dd doesnt consume animal products...

personally i would say its more unethical to feed a child something with hormones, toxins, and drugs in it....

im vegetarian... do i attack meat eaters for their lifestyle.. umm no go ahead its your life.. so why cant ppl leave us alone... i am soo sick of seeing these articles...

and yes im aware their are ppl attacking meat eaters out there.. but im sorry anti-vegetarianim is more widely seen.. at least for me it has been..

and will someone get the terms straight...

veganism is a lifestyle not jus a diet... (No leather, fur, gelatin etc)
strict vegeterianism -- no animal products in diet...

ok im done... yeah yeah im cranky today... and this will be or probably should be moved to good eating... but im not a mod so who knows... :LOL

Seperated, Cape Dress Wearing, Covered, Conservative Mennonite Mama to big girl K.
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#4 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 11:54 AM
 
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Here's another article with some good rebuttals...

And from here

Quote:
The British Dietetic Association said the study looked at impoverished, rural children with a poor background diet low in essential nutrients such as zinc, B12 and iron, and its findings were not applicable to vegan children in the developed world.
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#5 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 12:14 PM
 
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The 544 children studied had been raised on diets chiefly consisting of starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples lacking these micronutrients.
I somehow doubt that this diet is typical of most vegans. How can this study be taken seriously?

And calpurnia, your link doesn't work! Can you fix it? I'm interested in that article.
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#6 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 12:18 PM
 
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the study was conducted in a poor African community
ok so source and study is sooo unreliable.. we wont even go there...

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#7 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 12:25 PM
 
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Well I am sure you know my opinion...... As a long-time vegan that has a totally vegan family including during pregnancy, I think this is bs. Dd is very healthy (healthier than all of her little friends) and is right on track for developement and growth. I hate crap like this. Why do people feel they need to judge? Sure there are unhealthy kids on every kind of diet imaginable. Look at the SAD kids. Tell me that most American kids eating what normal kids do do not eat starchy diets. Can we say french fries? Something my vegan kid has never had?

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#8 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to add that I hope you guys don't think I agreed with the article, I posted last night while hurrying to put dd to sleep, so I may have ended up being a bit vague :
It just seemed somewhat worrying from the NFL point of view since it's more ammo for those that want to attack all those wierd hippy mamas out there

Quote:
veganism is a lifestyle not jus a diet... (No leather, fur, gelatin etc)
tricia80, didn't really realise that (I thought no egg or milk vegetarians were vegans) and I know Hindus aren't really vegans (they eat milk but not eggs) but I really didn't mean to annoy you

I know the study was way off and totally irrelevant to developed world vegans (and even to most 3rd world vegans/vegetarians) but it was being quoted by a scientist in the US government service (I think?) and seemed to being applied to US and Western lifestyle vegans so it seemed like it might be of concern (if for example you try to insist on vegan menu options in school etc).

btw yoopervegan what's bad about french fries? (an honest question, I'm just curious)

hope I'm not too disjointed sounding, been in and out a dozen times with dd

nothing more to say I guess :
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#9 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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What a horrible article. First off, I have a couple vegan friends who are raising their children in the vegan lifestyle. They are smart,very active, playful, outgoing, and happy children. They show no signs of being "developmentally retarded".

In fact, the study shows results in a way that is not close to what they eat. It's not like they live poorly off of beans and corn. They eat a well balanced meal of many food options and that can make alot of difference.
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#10 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 08:22 PM
 
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for my dd, with her current eating patterns, i don't think a vegan diet would be best for her. She won't eat any veggies besides corn, won't even try them, despite her mommy's begging. she's not really fond of soy stuff either, and i have concerns about too much soy in her diet anyway. so since she would never sit down and eat a bowl of rice and beans, or a big plate of greens, I am glad that she drinks milk and eats yogurt and cheese and eats meat. I have a feeling she will be at least vegetarian at some point, i was for years, but i hope that at that point she will be more open to eating veggies.
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#11 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 09:52 PM
 
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Moving this to Nutrition and Good Eating...
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#12 of 32 Old 02-22-2005, 11:50 PM
 
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My husband has been on the horn on this like crazy. So far he has gotten about 100 people to write letters, including nutritionists.

Mother of 3, welcomed a new baby girl July 2011

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#13 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 07:05 AM
 
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Corn and beans, with the addition of oil (what one of the study groups was fed) is hardly a definition of a vegan diet - these elements could be part of any diet. Presumably the study is aimed at scaring impressionable people into eating meat/eating more meat.
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#14 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 08:54 AM
 
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I havn't read the article.

But, I can see that conceivably a vegan who does not know enough about proper nutrition (every vegan I've known has been very concientious - but surely not every last one is) could "harm their child".

I did. And I'm only a vegetarian. My ex-exclusively bf dd developed or was born with a very severe B12 deficiency, which during the 7 weeks we spent in hospital at 11.5mo was put down to my diet
B12 is only found in animal sources (except mushroom, but only if they are dirty - from animal sources), and while I did consume some dairy & eggs, clearly it was not enough.
I did supplement intermittantly, never very good at remembering daily. I honestly had no idea how vital it was for us.

We are still researching the problem we've had with the B12 deficiency, it's very confusing for us. One source will say it's my fault, and other sources say it was not...

How do vegans ensure their kids recieve enough B12? (I've not known any actually with children).
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#15 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 09:25 AM
 
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i wonder who funded the study?
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#16 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 10:08 AM
 
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I think that it's a dreadful study and so unethical. That researcher could have reached into her own pocket and bought those children multivit&mineral tablets and then measured their improvement. Plenty of studies have been done on dietary requirements - that's where they get the "recommended daily amounts." No one is advocated a corn, "vegetable oil", and bean diet. To deprive those children just to bash some Western vegans over the head is awful.

And if they are really trying to figure out how best to feed children in poor countries, they can try adjusting the trade rules and giving more and better aid - not try and figure out what's the least possible amount of food they can funtion on.
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#17 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mama ganoush
for my dd, with her current eating patterns, i don't think a vegan diet would be best for her. She won't eat any veggies besides corn, won't even try them, despite her mommy's begging. she's not really fond of soy stuff either, and i have concerns about too much soy in her diet anyway. so since she would never sit down and eat a bowl of rice and beans, or a big plate of greens, I am glad that she drinks milk and eats yogurt and cheese and eats meat. I have a feeling she will be at least vegetarian at some point, i was for years, but i hope that at that point she will be more open to eating veggies.
Mama, you're argument for why your dd couldn't be vegan is the very one I use for why my ds (who won't eat any veggie "straight") can be vegan. :LOL I always say, even if I fed him meat and dairy, he still wouldn't be getting his veggies! Seriously though, he eats a number of foods containing veggies, plenty of fruits, whole grains, a very well-balanced vegan diet.
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#18 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 12:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seven_lux
I did. And I'm only a vegetarian. My ex-exclusively bf dd developed or was born with a very severe B12 deficiency, which during the 7 weeks we spent in hospital at 11.5mo was put down to my diet
B12 is only found in animal sources (except mushroom, but only if they are dirty - from animal sources), and while I did consume some dairy & eggs, clearly it was not enough.
I did supplement intermittantly, never very good at remembering daily. I honestly had no idea how vital it was for us.

We are still researching the problem we've had with the B12 deficiency, it's very confusing for us. One source will say it's my fault, and other sources say it was not...

How do vegans ensure their kids recieve enough B12? (I've not known any actually with children).
I've "heard" that some people have trouble absorbing b12 (whether they're vegan, omni, etc.). But as a mom to a vegan 5yo, I relied on him receiving enough b12 through my breastmilk for the first two years of life (but we didn't stop bf at 2!!!). We use some b-12 fortified soy and rice milk, very occasionally fortified cereal, and a b12 tablet 3 times a week. Animals don't "make" b12; they get it from eating things that contain bacteria. In our super-clean culture, humans no longer obtain enough b12 from this source.
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#19 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 08:33 PM
 
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Hi! I'm Julie, and this is the first time I'm posting. Full disclosure: I'm vegan, had a vegan pregnancy, have a vegan husband, and twin healthy vegan 3-year-old girls.

I got a newsletter from vegsourse.com with the following information:

Hello VegSourcers --

1) National Cattlemen's Beef Association pays for sadistic anti-vegan "study"

You may have heard about a study claiming that feeding a vegan diet to children is tantamount to "child abuse." What you may not have heard is that the "study" was paid for by the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. What's more the study itself was depraved and showed no regard for human life. Like Nazis experimenting on captives, the Cattle industry manipulated very slightly the diets of starving African children -- not to benefit the children but to try to produce some "scientific finding" which justifies meat-eating.

You can read the full story here:

http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/ncbs_vegan_study.htm

After you do, consider writing your Congressional representatives and demanding that that the USDA and meat industry stop experimenting on young, starving children, and ask for an investigation. You can find your representatives contact info here:

http://www.house.gov/writerep/
http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm


Just thought you'd like to know!

Julie, mom to my beautiful twin girls twins.gif

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#20 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 09:11 PM
 
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This is funded by the American Cattlemens association. need I say more.
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#21 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 09:55 PM
 
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As a vegan mom i find this article laughable. My son was not born with a low birth weight, but 7lbs 13 ozs. Vegan children get B-12 from B-12 vitamins, fortified foods, nutritional yeast, Red Star T-6635+.
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#22 of 32 Old 02-23-2005, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hmmm, well THAT explains a lot (the funders I mean)

nothing more to say I guess :
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#23 of 32 Old 02-24-2005, 09:29 AM
 
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Just a weird b12 thought. My neighbor was telling me that veggie children often get b12 by mouthing things, and that the mouthing does not necessarily stop as they get older. We have b12 in our saliva, and by relicking it and dirty surface that we have been in contact with, we pick up some b12.
I had never heard that mushrooms are a source of b12, and I am curious where you got that info. Finally, to have proper b12 assimulated into your body, you need to have folate, which you can only from green veggies. How come they did not give those poor vegan kids a salad; seems like restaurants always give them to me as their vegetarian option.
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#24 of 32 Old 02-24-2005, 11:59 AM
 
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Ive read that b12 is found in soil and we dont get it from veggies because we wash them. I get my b12 from nutritional yeast.

Mother of 3, welcomed a new baby girl July 2011

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#25 of 32 Old 02-24-2005, 01:19 PM
 
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Quote:
This is funded by the American Cattlemens association. need I say more.
Nope. You'd think that with all the money they're making from selling factory farmed animals that they'd actually fund some proper research.
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#26 of 32 Old 02-24-2005, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
This is funded by the American Cattlemens association. need I say more.

I was JUST about to post that.



Bah humbug.
:
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#27 of 32 Old 02-24-2005, 03:01 PM
 
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It's all hogwash (pun intended)!


We are a vegetarian family. (My husband and daughter are strict vegetarians and my son and myself eat dairy occasionally). I was strictly vegan for ten years though, and my ten yo daughter has been vegan since (before) conception and the amount of times she's been sick in her life I can count on one hand (other than occasional, minor congestion). She excels in everything she does scholastically and physically, so...

Yes, I think it's possible to be a (super) healthy vegan child!

Those "studies" are just based on a movement to scare you into thinking you *must* be dependant on the products of those businesses which funded the studies.
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#28 of 32 Old 02-24-2005, 03:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokerama
Ive read that b12 is found in soil and we dont get it from veggies because we wash them. I get my b12 from nutritional yeast.
yes that is one of the things mentioned in the article for which i posted the url
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#29 of 32 Old 02-25-2005, 12:39 PM
 
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Yes- nutritional yeast on everything in this vegan family of 5. All my kids are very healthy and were so at birth- and I have been vegan for years....
the crap they try to pass off as TRUTH
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#30 of 32 Old 02-25-2005, 05:33 PM
 
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Please do not rely on just nutritional yeast for your b12. It is not an adequate source.

Quote:
From Alex Hershaft, PhD, President of FARM:

For the last few months, I was feeling sluggish, had to lie down a couple of times a day, found it difficult to work evenings and to exercise for long periods. Under Michael Klaper, MD's guidance, I was taking protein powder, creatine, testosterone, nystatin, etc., all to no avail. I was taking nutritional yeast every day, so I knew it wasn't B12 deficiency.

Then, one day, I came across your B12 article [Vitamin B12: Are you Getting It?] by sheer accident. I wasn't going to read the whole thing, but I glanced through it and was struck by your insistence that none of the usual sources are adequate. I still didn't believe it, but I had some old B12 pills in the fridge, so I popped one.

The effect was almost immediate and remarkable. I have been taking them almost every day, my stamina and energy level are up, and I feel middle-aged again instead of a tired old man.
Read the entire article entitled "Vitamin B12: Are You Getting It?" over at VeganHealth.org http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/
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