Whole Foods/TF(like) Veg*ns - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have been debating for weeks over where to post this- Veg*n Living or TF. I finally decided because I'm not 100% behind TF I will post it here.

I feel a shift in my body, mind, and soul. And if that wasn't cheesy enough for you please read on I have wanted to become more whole and more inline with nature and her cycles (Not to mention my own. It really does come full circle...) for the past few weeks. I was on a whole foods vegan diet a few years back and felt WONDERFUL! Very centered and healthful. I would like to return to that although not on the vegan level.

The reason TF makes sense to me is not only the whole foods aspects but the way food is prepared and the stress placed on the importance of food directly from the source. I love this list of ideal sans the meat, of course.

http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/Die...delines-en.htm
Quote:
  1. Eat whole, fresh, unprocessed, natural foods.
  2. Eat only foods that will spoil, but eat them before they do.
  3. Eat naturally-raised proteins including fish, seafood,
    poultry, beef, lamb, game, organ meats and eggs.
  4. Eat whole, naturally-produced milk products, preferably
    raw milk and butter or fermented products such as whole
    yogurt, whole cheeses and fresh raw sour cream.
  5. Use only traditional fats and oils including butter and
    other animal fats, extra virgin olive oil, expeller expressed
    sesame and flax oil and the tropical oils – coconut
    and palm.
  6. Eat fresh fruits and vegetables, preferably organic, in
    salads and soups, or lightly steamed with raw butter
    (or the best butter you can find).
  7. Use whole grains and nuts that have been prepared by
    soaking, sprouting or sour leavening to begin to neutralize
    phytic acid and other anti-nutrients.
  8. Prepare homemade meat stocks from the bones of
    naturally raised chicken, beef, lamb or fish and
    use liberally in soups and sauces. Vegetable stocks
  9. Use herb teas and coffee substitutes.
  10. Use spring water or filtered water for cooking
    and drinking.
  11. Use unrefined Celtic sea salt and a variety of organic
    herbs & spices for food interest and appetite stimulation.
  12. Make your own salad dressing using raw vinegar and
    extra virgin olive oil.
  13. Use natural sweeteners in moderation, such as raw
    honey, maple syrup, Xylitol and the herb stevia.
  14. Use only unpasteurized wine or beer in strict moderation
    with meals.
  15. Cook only in glass (preferably), or good quality
    enamelware or stainless steel.
  16. Use only natural supplements.
  17. Get plenty of sleep, exercise and natural light.
  18. Think positive thoughts and minimize stress.
  19. Practice forgiveness.
I don't want to start a debate. I'm just interested in finding any like-minded veg*ns to share in the journey.
I'm not a fan of labels so IMO one doesn't have to be a TFer/NTer to still benefit from some of the practices same with veg*nisms.

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#2 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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I think I would fit in here! I have a mish-mash of nutrition/cookbooks that range from raw to vegan to TF. And many more from the library! But ultimately I feel best mostly vegetarian.
I had been pondering/praying for diet answers and one of my answers came to me clear as day that I need to start focusing on sprouts/indoor gardening. So I have been following that and finding great peace. And my digestion has been AWESOME! Seriously I was worried that I wouldn't do well, especially with the sprouted grains-but it is working so far. I'm avoiding wheat, but kamut is really nice. I'm saving my wheat for wheatgrass.

I do have a great pastured egg source right now, so that is our main animal food right now!
We also love juicing and green smoothies.
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#3 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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I can defintely get behind that list!!!

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#4 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 03:50 PM
 
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That list really speaks to me too. I understand exactly where you're at. Except I've been leaning more towards the meat rather than the eggs and dairy.

Food wise I've been vege for years and years, lean towards whole and simple foods, vegan and raw foods. But to eat enough of a variety of raw foods I'd have to eat a lot of foods from far away. That just didn't feel right. And I love goat cheese . And I wasn't super strict, I didn't check to see if the biscuits were pillsbury at my mil's house. I've been thinking more about macrobiotic philosophy lately and eating foods more from my surroundings, which would probably include meat since we have four seasons here. Unless I felt I could survive on apples and squash all winter, lol.

My naturopath recently diagnosed me with a dairy intolerance (not lactose intolerance, all dariy, even raw and goat's milk) and found a few issues with my heart and mentioned an enzyme in chicken that would be good for me (she didn't go so far to tell me that I should start eating meat, just mentioned the enzyme after I told her I wasn't opposed to eating meat if I needed to). So it's been on my mind a lot lately.
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#5 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i think that meat has it's time and place and it's functions. it wholeheartedly depends on where the individual is. for everything there is a season....

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#6 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 05:22 PM
 
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I fit in with your thread Dh laughs at me when I talk about eating more natural foods because I already eat better than anyone he knows. But, I have been trying to give up all packaged/processed foods (what little I usually buy still only has a couple of ingredients and are always organic/ ingredients I understand). I am also experimenting with fermenting and culturing. Oh, my kids and I are vegan, so that means none of the dairy/eggs/meat of course. We get our healthy fats mainly through avacados, coconut oil, and flax oil.

The sweetener thing has been a big switch in our house. I used to use only about 1/2-3/4 of the sugar called for in a recipe, and would usually use something like agave or at the very least "raw" sugar. Now, after going a month without any added sugars, the cookies my husband made the other night are absolutely disgusting to me. And, both of my kids gobbled up the birthday cake I made for ds's b-day last week that used only dates to sweeten it.

The big thing I want to work on (and I have asked this in the TF forum without much response) is how to prepare grains. I know they say they should be soaked and I think that sprouting is okay. But, when I want to make bread, there isn't enough water in the recipe to soak all of the flour. So, I'm stumped on that one. I tried doing a sourdough starter earlier in the month, which was a flop. So I have to try that again.

Anyway, I don't want to write a book... I'm gonna go back to the kids now. I'm glad to see this thread, though
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#7 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i have been wondering the same thing about soaked grains in bread recipes. i'm finding that there is so much i want to know about TF but can't find online anywhere. where i once said i boycott Sally Fallon i am beginning to feel like i *have* to buy her book if i want all the information i'm looking for. i might be able to find them in a couple of different books but why would i spend money on more than one book if it's all there especially when money is tight? i really am torn....

i have also tried to make a sourdough starter to no avail. *sigh* try try again, right? i really don't think there is a fool proof way of making a starter.

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#8 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 06:09 PM
 
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I'm so glad you started this thread!

I'm on the fence as to how I feel about eating animal products. I agree that they probably do serve a purpose at times, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary for health. So for health/environmental/ethical reasons, I'm not eating any animal products right now. The one animal food I might consider in the future is eggs because I feel they're the least harmful if from an ethical source, and I've got to eventually get B12 from somewhere (not too crazy about supplements in general).

As far as the other TF type things go, I love the idea of fermenting veggies and I absolutely adore kombucha. I've been trying to figure out the whole soaking grains thing...not totally sure if it's even necessary since I've read some positive things about phytates being antioxidants and having health benefits. : I don't really eat a lot of grains anyway - only some rice, a random bowl of oatmeal, and Ezekiel bread which is made from sprouted grains. I made a sourdough starter once and a few bricks, er, I mean loaves from it, but no one would eat them but me so I gave up. I'm trying to only eat real whole foods, lots of organic veggies, and very little processed stuff...which for me also includes oils.

I read NT, and I wasn't crazy about it. After reading many posts from people saying that the recipes aren't very good, I wouldn't spend the money to buy it.

I think I've written too much now. Thanks for starting this thread.
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#9 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 08:52 PM
 
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I also eat ezekiel bread and if you don't have the time , know how or desire I think it's a good compromise. I do not care to buy anything by Sally Fallon and from everything thing I've read it does seem a lot of her recipes suck.

I have a raw cook book that explains in detail how to sprout grains. It's packed away right now but it's by Ann Wigmore. I'm not sure it's even in print anymore, probably not. But I bet any good raw food cook book would have sprouting instructions.

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#10 of 151 Old 02-27-2008, 10:43 PM
 
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I love ezekiel bread I wouldn't send any money Sally Fallon's way either. Just knowing that she thinks breastmilk isn't adequate after 6 months is enough to turn me away, but I am also not impressed based on what I have read skimming the TF forum.

Sprouting grains is very easy. You rinse them (the whole thing of course.. wheat berries, buckwheat groats, etc). Soak them for about 24 hours (this varries a bit depending on the type). I put about 1 cup of wheat berries in a quart size mason jar. Then, you drain the water (put cheese cloth or a specially made plastic lid with holes over the top of the jar). Rinse until the water is clear. Leave at a downward angle so it can continue to drain. Let the sprouts grow Most grains only take a couple of days. You will want to rinse once a day.

It is soaking flour that I haven't figured out. I think what I am going to try is sprouting my wheat berries, then dehydrating them, and then grinding them in my flour mill.
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#11 of 151 Old 02-28-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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I can get into this. Packaged snacks are really my last hurdle. I don't eat them very often, but sometimes I just really want some crackers. I also feel like this would help me get to a healthy mindset about weight and eating as well.

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#12 of 151 Old 02-28-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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I like this thread. It makes me giggle a little because I don't really fit well into any label. I'm almost vegan, almost raw, almost TF, with some pretty significant diversions from the norm.

Some of our changes are relatively new and all have been reached gradually. Here's where we are now:

I am done eating meat of any kind. I won't buy it or cook it anymore, except for the occasional (once a month at most) salmon fillet. My partner and son occasionally eat meat when they're out and about but we will be educating our son about the reality of meat production and allowing him to make his own decisions.

I think raw dairy has its benefits but it is mostly out of my price range and I get a lot of calcium from my greens (especially smoothies!). I think 'regular' dairy is pretty much toxic. I make goats milk yogurt once a week and we all seem to tolerate that okay but it's mostly for my partner and our toddler.

I'm willing to eat fish once in a while and goat's milk cheese. We go through about a dozen eggs a week among the three of us (baby's pretty much just on breast milk, some bland fruits too).

I buy only organic fruits and vegetables and I eat raw until dinner- green smoothies, salads, and the like. Dinner is generally vegan, sometimes includes eggs (tonight is ratatouille with poached eggs, for example)

I use coconut and olive oils and sometimes a little butter to cook. I rarely buy packaged foods except for the occasional Lara bar or Blue Diamond Nut Thin crackers as a treat.

I love kombucha and I think fermented foods are very healthy. Big fan of kim chi.

Oh, and we're gluten free because my partner is allergic.

I really don't feel that restricted in my daily life, but when I write it all out here... I sound like a (raw organic) nut.



So...is this the thread for me?
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#13 of 151 Old 02-28-2008, 06:27 PM
 
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Oh, I also wanted to mention that I found a cool website yesterday that seems to resonate with most of my personal food preferences:

http://www.greensmoothiegirl.com

Here's her 'list': http://www.greensmoothiegirl.com/12-...od-eating.html

I'm thinking about subscribing. The price is right and she seems to be on the same path that I am drawn to.
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#14 of 151 Old 02-28-2008, 07:45 PM
 
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I like greensmoothiegirl too, I posted her link in TF once. Her conclusions are pretty close to my own, too. Except I like juicing greens as well as smoothies. and I sprout more.
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#15 of 151 Old 02-28-2008, 09:38 PM
 
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On my goodness, this thread is for me!!!!! I was wondering if there were more people out there!!!!

Right now we are mostly vegetarian, working toward veganism. But we eat a lot of processed junk as well. I've felt drawn to the many aspects of TF, but when it comes down to it, I do not want to eat the meat & eggs & cheese, drink the milk, etc. I also agree that these things have their place for certain people at certain times. But the thought of it....I just couldn't. So I've been kind of discouraged about the whole food issue. I'm excited now by this thread and hope to learn how to implement a TF vegan lifestyle.
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#16 of 151 Old 02-29-2008, 06:35 AM
 
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Anyone have any info/thoughts on traditional cultures that don't consume a lot of animal products? I know there isn't a truly vegan society, but I've read about some that eat mostly plant based diets. I'll have to do some research and post more about them. Any input anyone has regarding this would be great!

Here's a study on the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico who eat a diet based on 95% plant foods with eggs as the major non-plant food source. It's very interesting.
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#17 of 151 Old 02-29-2008, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I thiiiiink on the TF forum someone said something about the Swiss. Then there is the Crete/Mediterranean diet- there is some meat but not much. Something like fish and poultry once a week, red meat monthly or not at all. Lemme see if I can find some links...

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#18 of 151 Old 02-29-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
I thiiiiink on the TF forum someone said something about the Swiss. Then there is the Crete/Mediterranean diet- there is some meat but not much. Something like fish and poultry once a week, red meat monthly or not at all. Lemme see if I can find some links...
Thanks. I think the Crete/Mediterranean people are one of the groups I'm thinking of, too. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Okinawans relied mostly on plant foods with about 10% of their diet from animal sources, primarily fish. I'm not that interested in the Swiss because I believe they relied fairly heavily on dairy which isn't exactly what I'm looking for - ymmv, of course. There's some others that I read about in John Robbins' book "Healthy at 100"...I'm going to have to find my copy and do some reading.
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#19 of 151 Old 02-29-2008, 03:40 PM
 
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This thread is for me too!

I used to be vegan until I got pregnant and craved dairy. Now our family is vegetarian, with my DH occasionally eating raw fish. Like once a month or less. We do all raw dairy. I live a few houses down from a goat farm, and raw cow milk and butter as well as cheeses are easy to find here. (northern CA) I don't eat eggs but my son and DH do, and they are from chickens that live down the street as well.

We eat 95% whole foods, with the occasional bag of organic chips thrown in. We also try to eat seasonally and participate in a CSA from a local farm.
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#20 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 01:45 AM
 
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you DON'T need Fallon's book. Go for Full Moon Feast for a non preachy approach. it still has meat, but not anywhere near what NT has. It's far more spiritual too.
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#21 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 06:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
I thiiiiink on the TF forum someone said something about the Swiss.
That was probably because once upon a time, some mountain-dwelling Swiss villagers had a very long lifespan and it was presumably due to their consumption of pastured meat and raw dairy. There is and was absolutely nothing plant-based about the Swiss diet...trust me. Sigh.

The meat is still pastured and a lot of the cheese is still raw but they chug UHT milk by the liter and have started down the path of the SAD diet influence.

This is an interesting thread! We eat a lot of raw at home, and the grains we do eat are always soaked, and we also do eggs and a bit of raw cheese. I feel good eating like this, as long as I pay attention to proper food combining. It makes ALL the difference.

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#22 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 09:51 AM
 
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I need someone to explain to me why organic whole grains used in home baking are not healthy?
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#23 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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you DON'T need Fallon's book. Go for Full Moon Feast for a non preachy approach. it still has meat, but not anywhere near what NT has. It's far more spiritual too.
I LOOOOVE this book. I finished it within days of getting it (just a few days ago, actually) but she doesn't go enough into the "how to"s, ykwim?

But seriously everyone must get Full Moon Feasts. I just finished it and I'm going to read it again.

ETA- the author does talk about how her vegetarianism made her unhealthy but I was expecting more. Her srgument is weak. Basically her veg*nism made her so sick because she didn't eat enough fat. She even says she was afraid of fat and all that. If she still would have refrined from meat and tried adding more fats maybe more whole animal products she probably ould have been fine. But who knows. Everyone is different. My point is I don't think her problem was refraining from meat at all.
Also when she does talk about omnivorism vs. veg*nism she only talks on the Animal Rights/spiritual side not the health side which is what I wanted to see. I know it's taboo here but I actually agree with her on the AR/spiritual side. :
The thing that popped into my mind while reading it was even if traditional people's ate meat (which I'm sure they did) they didn't do it to the extent that modern society and people like Fallon are suggesting. In most areas there just wasn't enough meat, ykwim? It just isn't logical, IMO. So where I do believe traditional people's ate meat and thrived I don't believe they ate it for every meal every day (excepting in the winter, maybe). I think that eating it that way is a major problem whereas eating it maybe once a day or once every other day or what have you makes much more sense in the traditional sense and health wise. But that's just what I gather. And I have to point out that this is natural meat not the processed factory farmed crap.

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#24 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That was probably because once upon a time, some mountain-dwelling Swiss villagers had a very long lifespan and it was presumably due to their consumption of pastured meat and raw dairy. There is and was absolutely nothing plant-based about the Swiss diet...trust me. Sigh.

The meat is still pastured and a lot of the cheese is still raw but they chug UHT milk by the liter and have started down the path of the SAD diet influence.

This is an interesting thread! We eat a lot of raw at home, and the grains we do eat are always soaked, and we also do eggs and a bit of raw cheese. I feel good eating like this, as long as I pay attention to proper food combining. It makes ALL the difference.
Actually someone brought it up because from what WAP said in his book they didn't eat a lot of meat but instead a lot of dairy and grains. I haven't read his book so I don't know but in Full Moon Feasts from what the author said it sounds like that was the case in WAP work.

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#25 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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Ok, so to prove my point to myself that this is the way I need to be eating; last night I ate greasy Chinese food at my mom's and have had the worst stomach since. I think I need to print out the op's post and keep it with me at all times.
BTW, I beleive the author of FMF is a member of my CSA. I remember them writing about it in our weekly newsletter when the book came out. Unfortunately, they don't have it at my library.

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#26 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 02:02 PM
 
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I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
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#27 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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you take the good and leave the rest. WAP doesn't hold the monopoly on traditional foods, ykwim?

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#28 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 02:25 PM
 
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I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
traditional foods are simply foods that traditional peoples consumed. WAP is just a person that studied them and has little to nothing to do with WAPF. He was not a part of the organization, nor was he alive when it was formed.

Whether or not he existed or studied them there were ways people lived and ate. That is all I think of when I think TF. Real food, from the earth.
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#29 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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I can't get past this article enough to in any way ally myself with "traditional foods." http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/wasteland.html
I refuse to even read anything from that website these days. There is just so much written there that makes me and I won't subject myself to it anymore. I get the feeling that the WAPF has its own agenda which isn't necessarily what TF is really all about.
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#30 of 151 Old 03-01-2008, 03:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
The thing that popped into my mind while reading it was even if traditional people's ate meat (which I'm sure they did) they didn't do it to the extent that modern society and people like Fallon are suggesting. In most areas there just wasn't enough meat, ykwim? It just isn't logical, IMO. So where I do believe traditional people's ate meat and thrived I don't believe they ate it for every meal every day (excepting in the winter, maybe). I think that eating it that way is a major problem whereas eating it maybe once a day or once every other day or what have you makes much more sense in the traditional sense and health wise. But that's just what I gather. And I have to point out that this is natural meat not the processed factory farmed crap.
I think you're right that most people did not eat very much meat, especially in parts of the world where there is/was an abundance of plants to eat. There were, of course, certain groups of people who ate only meat or other animal products, too. I think that people can thrive on a wide range of diets, and that's good news for those of us who don't want to eat meat - it isn't totally necessary, as some people would like to have us believe (Fallon, etc.).
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