"12 hours at 12 weeks" -- WTF?? - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-23-2009, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so I went to a mommy's group today. By and large, these women are on the opposite side of the spectrum from AP, and I've never connected with them much on parenting stuff, but I needed an excuse to get out of the house. Anyway, I thought I'd heard it all...UNTIL!

The woman sitting next to me started talking about something she was doing with her daughter that she read about in a book, called "12 hours at 12 weeks" or something. It is -- you guessed it -- a technique for training your 12-week-old to sleep 12 hour stretches.

How is it done? Wait for it...

You feed the baby every 4 hours during the day so that "she gets used to being hungry, and it doesn't wake her up at night."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is, I have compassion and understanding for women who get seduced by this stuff. To be honest, my first response to this wasn't horror...it was: "12 HOURS!?! SIGN ME UP!" Then after I processed it for about 30 seconds: Horror. Then I did the math: That's FOUR FEEDINGS in a 24-hour period for a 12-week-old infant!!!!!!!!!! I eat more frequently than that!!!!!! Triple horror.

I was at a loss for words, and the best I could do was: "I'd be worried about my milk supply." To which the woman answered, "I don't think your milk supply has anything to do with how often you feed the baby."

O rly?

Once I got home, a question occurred to me that I really wish I'd asked: What in god's name are you supposed to do when your baby starts crying because she's hungry before the 4 hours is up? The only answer I can possibly imagine is: Let her cry, because there will be no stopping a hungry baby from crying without feeding her. So it's like CIO, all day long, for sleep AND eating.

This woman's baby is wee tiny tiny, I'd guess somewhere around the 20th percentile for her age, and every time I've seen her she's been asleep the whole time, which is what I would do, too, if I were starving to death.

Seriously, shouldn't this be illegal?

Has anyone else heard of this?
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:41 PM
 
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http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Twe.../9780525949596

there's the book...
all i can think is OMG!
how on earth could this have ever been consitered a good idea.

the only was i can really figure this working is the baby becomes lethargic and sleeps deeply from not eating enough and crying all day.

This is just disgusting.


i could really see this setting a child up for over eating and a wonky metabolism as they grow.



If this was done with a breastfed child u'd sooo end up with supply issues.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:45 PM
 
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That's completely horrifying and disgusting. And really sad. It makes me so sad to hear about women who are so far removed from their instincts that they can't see what they're doing to their babies. I hope you say something to that woman - this is a situation where that baby is actually in harm's way, and that woman really needs to be told/shown that what she's doing is not healthy or acceptable in any way. Can you email her some literature about how often babies of that age actually need to feed?

I really hate any and every baby care book that claims to have some kind of solution for all babies. There's no such thing! Every baby is different and every mom needs to just tune out the noise around them and focus on getting to know THEIR baby and what s/he needs, and then respond to it. It's so simple!

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Old 04-23-2009, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, you know, as an inexperienced mom, I've gotten tossed about in the wind a bit by all the varying parenting books out there: Do this! No, do that! No, do the complete opposite thing! It's enough to make your head spin. 3 months into the adventure, I'd say that one thing I've learned is to IMMEDIATELY throw away anything that makes a claim like, "AND IT WORKS! EVERY TIME, FOR EVERY BABY!"

Also anything that is guaranteed to make my baby do nothing but cry and fall asleep exhausted from crying. Criminy.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:54 PM
 
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I have an acquaintance that used this technique. Her dd has slept through the night, but her milk supply plummeted and she ended up using formula.

SAHM to Chloe«- 6/2008 (10 lbs, 5 oz), Hannah- 9/2010 (9 lbs, 12 oz), Liam- 2/2013 (9 lbs, 6 oz)

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh yeah, I should also mention that this woman's daughter is ALREADY sleeping a 7-8 hour stretch, but it's the "wrong" 7-8 hours for mom's schedule (7:00 PM to 2:00 or 3:00 AM -- coincidentally the exact 7-8 hour stretch my daughter sleeps most nights, and for which I thank my lucky stars).
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:08 PM
 
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I would be happy for a 4 or 5 hour stretch at 10 months, but alas, it is not so.... I just figure my dd will nurse when she needs to.

It seems so unnatural to go that long without eating, and not using nursing as a way to help calm the lo?????

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:12 PM
 
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OMG - I just read the book review and I want to puke! This woman is called a "guru"!!!!! I think it's disgusting as well, and I want to write a letter - or something! It is so easy for new mamas to get caught up in all this crap, but this seems harmful and abusive to me My kiddos are 5 and 9 and I still don't get a good nights sleep, but that doesn't mean I'm going to starve them and make them cry all day to try and "train" them to sleep!!!

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:20 PM
 
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Oh man that's awful. I wouldn't want my 12 MONTH old baby going 12 hours without nursing!!!!!!

CPST & mom

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rachel616 View Post
I really hate any and every baby care book that claims to have some kind of solution for all babies. There's no such thing! Every baby is different and every mom needs to just tune out the noise around them and focus on getting to know THEIR baby and what s/he needs, and then respond to it. It's so simple!

ITA! I'm all about sleep for babies, but that seems counterintuitive to me - a baby needs x amount of food for their own little selves to grow...if you feed them LESS during the day - they will be HUNGRIER at night, yk? I was always of the mind set, if they don't get the OZ they need during the day - they'll get them at night...so if you want a sleeping baby at night, you better make sure you are ON it during the day!!!! And some babies just CAN'T get enough during the day - so there will BE no 12 hour stretches. And some can - I've been lucky enough to have 2 (so far watch this third one will have me up all night!!!) that SLEEP. (and not because I fed them every FOUR hours during the day!!!!!!)

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Old 04-23-2009, 11:38 PM
 
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"gets used to being hungry?" Oh, that is awful!!! I agree, it's sad that people read stuff like that and believe it. When my baby was 12 weeks old, I sure didn't know it was normal for babies not to sleep through the night! And she did do the 3-month good sleeping (6-ish hours a few times) and I thought we'd be good to go from there!!

That's sad, too, about "the wrong 7-8 hour stretch" I would take a stretch of 4-5 hours at any time!!

My babe is in the 20th percentile, but I feed her and always have when she is hungry!

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Old 04-23-2009, 11:48 PM
 
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LOL, I can't imagine my 4 year old sleeping for a 12 hour stretch!!!

(of course, I'm one of those crazy, permissive, co-sleeping hippie moms....)
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:23 AM
 
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was the first emoticon that came to mind, though there are many others that are appropriate. Coherent thoughts are escaping me. Sheesh.

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Old 04-24-2009, 03:13 PM
 
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(nak)

when I first heard of this and read the reviews online at barnes n noble, I have to admit I was saying to myself "maybe it's good to follow some of the advice if it makes for good sleeping habits in the future".

It seems to me that most of us APers have sleep problems that are hard to resolve.

Though I could never starve my baby by feeding him only every 4 hours, and I will never let my baby CIO, I was thinking maybe there are some techniques we could glean from the book?

Then I heard about the baby who stays in his crib for twelve hours whether awake or not. Who doesn't cry when he's hungry because he is used to being hungry. You can pretty much teach someone to sit back and take anything as long as they are used to it. Being in a crib for 12 hours is not normal. Babies are meant to be held and cuddled. Im not sure I really want my baby to experience being "pent up" and just sitting back and taking it...

I like my little sleep fighter - he has a personality, he's not being "forced" into the mold. I like it when he complains because he is uncomfortable. Or when he squeals because he is excited. I don't want the typical "take whatever comes" baby. My ds is human, he has feelings and needs and he should be taught to express those needs.

So they can keep their books and their methods of forcing babies into adult schedules and timetables. And I will keep my very happy, original, full of personality, sleep fighting baby. Well hopefully the sleep fighting goes away....

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Old 04-24-2009, 03:24 PM
 
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darn I was thinking this was going to be another thread about the 4 month sleep regression. Y'know, "my LO slept for 12 hours straight at 12 weeks, but now is waking every hour, what's wrong?"

No help on how to talk to people like that since my first reaction was "are you stupid?? that sounds abusive.." which is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Maybe "that sounds dangerous, have you talked to your child's doctor about that?"
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Old 04-24-2009, 03:39 PM
 
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I'm SOOO glad people on this mothering board agree with me on this - b/c on my babycenter DDC there are TONS of people like - why won't my baby sleep - and the response is that they NEED to CIO so that they learn how to sleep. Oh yeah, and people complaining about how they're babies wake up for a 6am feeding and so they have to get up.

I guess any sleep I get doesn't count b/c my parents didn't let me CIO when I was a baby and I never learned how to sleep at night :

I will admit though that sometimes I get a little jealous that they get uninterupted sleep at night : Especially after last night when my baby didn't sleep at all and only wanted to nurse. I think he is reverse cycling - which would be ok except that I'm HOME ALL DAY!!!!
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:58 PM
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This makes me so sad. That poor little baby.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:08 PM
 
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ha, you're lucky to get 12 hours at 12 months!

but don't worry, by 12 years a lot of them will be doing 12 hours easy and pushing for more!

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Old 04-24-2009, 07:12 PM
 
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i could really see this setting a child up for over eating and a wonky metabolism as they grow.
yeah, I was thinking that, too. Same idea as those with anorexia or bulemia metabolism will make up for the fact that the body is starving by slowing down, causing weight issues later in life.

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Old 04-24-2009, 09:37 PM
 
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It seems to me that most of us APers have sleep problems that are hard to resolve.
I dont believe that this is really true only for APers, I think this is true for all parents. It might seem more pronounced in APers for these reasons though...

I believe that a) a great deal of parent wont admit in public the issues that they have because they think that it makes them bad parents to have a kid that is older than 4 weeks old and doesnt STTN and b) harsh sleep training methods are being used which may seem to make a child sleep well because the poor child gets disheartened after a while... but this typically does not last.

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Old 04-24-2009, 09:42 PM
 
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I'm still waiting for 12 hours!

Katherine, SAHM to 2 little princes
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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I dont believe that this is really true only for APers, I think this is true for all parents. It might seem more pronounced in APers for these reasons though...

I believe that a) a great deal of parent wont admit in public the issues that they have because they think that it makes them bad parents to have a kid that is older than 4 weeks old and doesnt STTN and b) harsh sleep training methods are being used which may seem to make a child sleep well because the poor child gets disheartened after a while... but this typically does not last.

Yes, I do know quite a bit of non-apers who tell me things such as "my lo was sttn and now he's up at 3 every morning" So I guess the fact that the CIO works for a while and then they regress would make it seem as if the child is sttn.

Also, another reason that may make it seem like the child is sttn could be that because we co-sleep, we know every little move our babies make. We wake when they wake... or sometimes even snort... So it seems as if our babies are waking more often, when in reality a baby in a crib is waking just as many times, but it is not being noticed by the parents..

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Old 04-25-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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That's one of the most heartbreaking things I think I've read in a really long time.
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Old 04-25-2009, 03:58 PM
 
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I think the book should first recommend that the parents "get used to being hungry" and see how much they like it! Even in an adult, there's a profound difference between choosing to fast or diet, and being hungry because you just can't get food, no matter how much you might want it. I've been hungry a little like that (run short of food backpacking), and it wasn't much fun. Imagine what it would be like if you were an infant! And it was every day!
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:01 PM
 
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What a hideous concept. I look at parenting this way: if something is targetted at improving my quality of life, it's probably not worth my time; if something is targetted at improving my baby's quality of life, it's worth taking a look at. Once I became a mother, "all me all the time" got thrown out of the window. Anything I do is done for my daughter, to keep her happy, healthy, and secure. I don't care if I wake up every three hours during the night, because feeding her trumps my desire to sleep a little longer. Period.
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:04 PM
 
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I think the book should first recommend that the parents "get used to being hungry" and see how much they like it! Even in an adult, there's a profound difference between choosing to fast or diet, and being hungry because you just can't get food, no matter how much you might want it. I've been hungry a little like that (run short of food backpacking), and it wasn't much fun. Imagine what it would be like if you were an infant! And it was every day!
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Very true!
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:14 PM
 
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This is truly horrible. Do you happen to know what pediatrician she uses? I was thinking if you knew that, you could talk to the office and make them aware of this book. You could probably do this with pediatricians, actually. Is there any kind of formal statement against this book by another group?

I just read a review that said: The people who think this is a strange concept... most adults don't eat druing the night nor do most children so not eating for 12 hours isn't too big a deal. I have 4 children and they all have gone 12 hours by the time they were 12 weeks old and they are not food deprived by any means. They were never low percentage for weight.


I cannot believe someone would compare a 12 week old baby with an adult or older child. And being in the low percentile is not the only danger. Their children may end up on the opposite end of the spectrum, as their bodies adapt to a lower calorie environment and become adept at conserving energy and storing what they get.
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:41 PM
 
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If anyone were tell their dr. their baby only fed 4 times a day at 12weeks..esp EBzm the dr. would have to wonder. Even formula fed babies eat more frequently than that. That book is worse than Babywise. It make Ezzo look like a Saint!

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Old 04-25-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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WTH..........Wow....: I can't even find words to explain my thoughts right now
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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ITA! I'm all about sleep for babies, but that seems counterintuitive to me - a baby needs x amount of food for their own little selves to grow...if you feed them LESS during the day - they will be HUNGRIER at night, yk? I was always of the mind set, if they don't get the OZ they need during the day - they'll get them at night...so if you want a sleeping baby at night, you better make sure you are ON it during the day!!!! And some babies just CAN'T get enough during the day - so there will BE no 12 hour stretches. And some can - I've been lucky enough to have 2 (so far watch this third one will have me up all night!!!) that SLEEP. (and not because I fed them every FOUR hours during the day!!!!!!)
That is my DS. He eats all his calories during the day and will easily sleep 7-8 hrs at night. He did this on his own though. No force on my part. Granted it is great to be able to sleep at night, but not at the expense of your LO!

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