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#1 of 62 Old 06-24-2009, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just don't think I can let my 6 month old cry. However, I need sleep! He wakes up every 2 hours and is not always hungry. Does CIO teach them to self soothe or does it teach them to not bother crying because their needs won't get met? I know 3 people who have done it with their kids under 1 year old and it has worked.
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#2 of 62 Old 06-24-2009, 10:33 PM
 
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This board doesn't allow discussions on the merits of CIO.

6 months is just a crappy sleep period. There's a lot of motor development, a growth spurts, their bodies are just buzzing with *stuff* going on. They really can't help themselves.

IMO 6 months is too young to CIO. I'm not opposed to some gentle tough love with older kids, but at 6 months they are really just babies who need mommy or daddy.

Look for alternatives. Get a sitter to come and give you nap. Alternate nights with your partner.

I also had a lot of luck with the cosleeper. Many nights DD just needed a little rock or her paci replaced and she was fine. Due to the motor stuff, I spent many nights sleeping with a hand on her legs to keep her from kicking herself awake.

If you don't have a cosleeper, you can sidecar a crib very easily, but having baby within arm's reach helps with the sleeping ime.

Also, are you still swaddling? They sell medium and large swaddle blankets. Try that as well.

Good luck! It's hard. The sleep deprivation is so hard core the first year. Babies are not made for sleeping, they really aren't. Even parents who CIO are up due to developmental sleep disruptions.

I do not believe it is safe to ignore a crying baby because you never know if they are sick or hurt or have a fever. Responsibly, parents need to check on their kids when they are crying, they can't just ignore it and sleep through it Some of the CIO stuff I hear sometimes leads me to wonder if some parents are completely ignoring their babies, which is not cool!

If you want to work on improving sleep habits, do try to put your baby to bed drowsy but awake and let them drift off on their own. That should help them get back to sleep when they wake in the middle of the night.

Introducing a lovey may help as well.

Now I have to run, my DD is crying and not having a good night herself.

Hang in there. Don't try to change the baby, they have no control,focus on changing something you can actually control.

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#3 of 62 Old 06-24-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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CIO will have very different effects on different kids. Some will get quiet (the jury's out on *why* they get quiet - either they fall asleep or they're traumatized into silence). Some will scream so the rescue choppers can hear them. What it means when CIO "works" is also a funny question. Sometimes it means the kid went to sleep. Sometimes it means the parent did. And different parents mean different things by it. Some mean "I put her in her crib, and when I checked back in ten minutes, she was snoozing." Some mean "I shut the door and walked away."

Bottom line: you have a six month-old, and you are getting desperate for some sleep. I am so sorry, mama. This part can be just awful. We did some things that I think helped -
- We were still swaddling at 6 mos. It helped him get to sleep, and re-swaddling (since he always got out) helped him get back to sleep.
- We started co-sleeping at around this stage (less getting up and going places = more sleep).
- DS started teething around this stage, and teething medicine really saved our lives.
- We made the middle of the night booooring. No singing, no stories, just reapply teething medicine (if it had been long enough), check the diaper, offer the breast. Minimal light and interaction.

In terms of your sleep: if you're home, nap when the baby does. If not, get major help on weekends. When DS was this age, DH would take him yard-saling on Saturday mornings, or I'd bring him to my parents' house, and they'd fuss over him while I slept in their guest room. If you can work it out so you and DH alternate nights, that's great. Alternatively, you can split things up in shifts (but this is much harder if you breastfeed). I can't say enough good things about co-sleeping in this regard - you don't have to get up, you don't have to go anywhere, the LO barely has time to get a fuss going before a parent can respond, and after a while, many mamas find that they can nurse in their sleep.
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#4 of 62 Old 06-25-2009, 08:52 AM
 
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it WILL get better. and you will be so happy you stuck with your instincts and didn't let your baby cry. my dd was a horrible sleeper and i was sleep deprived for about 7 months. every baby is different so it's tough to say when your lo will start sleeping better, but my dd sleeps through the night pretty much every night at 10 months old and i think it's because she knows she's safe and secure and i'll always be there to give her what she needs. hang in there! you're doing great.

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#5 of 62 Old 06-25-2009, 09:23 PM
 
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CIO teaches them not to bother crying because no one will come. It also causes brain damage. Babies cry, you need to respond every time. I know it can be frustrating when you see other parents have an "easier" baby because they do something like CIO but really YOUR baby is the lucky one. It will get better. How do you know he's not hungry when he wakes up?

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#6 of 62 Old 06-25-2009, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tell me more about how it causes brain damage. I know he is not hungry because he doesn't want to eat Thanks for all your help!
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#7 of 62 Old 06-25-2009, 10:18 PM
 
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Here's one article for you!

Kelly , mama to 4yo and 1yo ,
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#8 of 62 Old 06-25-2009, 11:23 PM
 
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My DH and I are having the same problem, and tempted by CIO, simply because we don't know what else to try. DD is 6 months and completely dependent on us to fall asleep. She's also extremely sensitive to being moved, so for a while we were waiting until she was deep asleep (20-30 minutes) before trying to put her down -- and even then she would often wake up, and you'd have to start all over again. Now, we're trying to put her down as soon as she falls asleep, in order to start transitioning her to being able to be put in her crib sleepy but not asleep. Sometimes this works, but often she will wake up immediately, and instead of crying, she'll want to play. There is absolutely no way to get her back to sleep when she wants to play, and we're completely at a loss as to what to do.

Co-sleeping doesn't work. We did it for a few months, and liked it, but she started failing to go back to sleep after breastfeeding, so we'd have to get up and rock her in the other room anyway.

Swaddling doesn't work. It worked great when she would stay in it. She's been able to bust out of it -- the velcro SwaddleMe blankets and the layered Miracle Blanket -- for months now, almost immediately. She's always been really strong.

Feeding doesn't work. She's like the only baby on the planet who is not made sleepy by eating. It almost always energizes her. If she is really hungry, she will let you know, so we do still feed her overnight most nights, but usually she is not hungry, just wants to be held.

I'm really frustrated by this, but DH is even more so, because he's the primary caregiver. It's exhausting to him to have to take care of her all day, with very little break because she doesn't nap long on her own, and then be up half the night. It's making him resentful of her.

I've read The No Cry Sleep Solution, and we've tried a number of things from it, so we're at a loss as to what else we can do, other than let her cry...
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#9 of 62 Old 06-25-2009, 11:47 PM
 
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Well, there are babies who need to cry before sleeping, but not in a CIO kind of way. It's more of a stress/frustration release cry. Some babies get overstimulated by rocking, patting, talking, etc. Have you tried laying baby down when baby's drowsing, and just sitting or standing nearby and seeing what happens? Obviously, if baby is getting distressed, then comfort it, but sometimes they fuss and whine for a few minutes, then go to sleep. My younger one does this in the car. It starts by incessant babbling, then whining, then crying, then sleeping.

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#10 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 12:05 AM
 
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My daughter has been a pretty awful sleeper from birth, and I have to say... it comes in waves. Sometimes things are good, sometimes, horrible. Even now, at 2.5. (She does usually sleep through now, but getting her to bed is... eeeeks! Not always... phases.) Looking back it always seemed to change up once I reached the maximum of what I could bear.

Most parents who CIO wind up having to do it again and again, because these things DO go in phases, and sleepless nights will happen again. Something to consider.

Try to get as much help as you can, and sleep as much as you can.
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#11 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 12:11 AM
 
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I do daycare for kids who have CIOed and have also seen the results of it with many of my friends' kids.

I do not believe that it teaches kids to self-soothe. I believe it teaches them to give up, and that bedtime is a time to feel stressed out.

My evidence is that all 3 of my kids will lay in their beds and quietly talk to themselves, read, hum, or fiddle if they can't fall asleep. If they want me, they call me and ask for a drink, an answer to whatever they were thinking about, or sometimes a snuggle, or a rock. But they also usually don't get up, and then usually, they fall asleep pretty quickly. Doesn't that sound wonderful? Doesn't that sound like self-soothing? It is! Wonderful and self-soothing!

But...my friends who have CIOed have almost all had to resort to locking their kids in their room when they get big enough to get out of their cribs, and then had to endure their child banging on the door and screaming and bawling for their parents. And then, when they go anywhere they can't get them to go to sleep because they can't lock them up. And then, if they resort to co-sleeping or "comforting" their kids to sleep during illness or travel, they have to retrain their kids. If their kids were really learning to self-soothe, it doesn't seem like all that would be necessary, you know? It seems to me like they're giving up, and then if there is the slightest inclination on their parents' parts to give them what they need at bedtime and during the night, they jump at the chance.
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#12 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 12:33 AM
 
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Wow! This discussion is just what I need right now! My third baby is 7 months old and I was determined from her birth day that she was going to be a better sleeper than my first 2 kids. So I put her down drowsy and tried really hard to not nurse when I was sure she wasn't hungry. And she was a good sleeper....for a while. She would go to sleep in her own bed and was starting to sleep loooong stretches. And now it is all bunk. Seriously, you would think that I had been nursing her to sleep her whole life and staying with her for every nap and every moment of the night she's sleeping. She is having a tough time and really needs me a lot more. So I'm co-sleeping all night again, nursing during the night again and as much as my back can handle it, she naps in the sling again. Quite the reversion. My conclusion is that it doesn't matter what sleep associations or self soothing skills she had--for right now she just needs me. I look forward to the day when I can have 5 or even 8 hours of sleep at one time but I don't really expect it to be soon.

That said, I think I will give the No Cry Sleep Solution a try again. I've read the book but I've never actually written down a plan and carefully reevaluated every 10 days to see what progress we've made. Can anyone share experiences you've had with approaching the method in the regimented way the author suggests?
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#13 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 01:26 AM
 
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Babies are babies. By definition they need mama. CIO is never okay. Never.

They are little for such a short time. Sleep with them, sleep while they nurse, cuddle them while they let you. Before you know it they'll be too big to cuddle.

-Angela
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#14 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 02:13 AM
 
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What Alegna said.

If baby is up at 5, I am up at 5, if baby wakes up just as I am going to bed, then I am up until she goes back to sleep again. She is generally a good sleeper (Goes to sleep at 5-6pm, has a couple of night time feeds and wakes up at 5-6 am), however, there are occasions when she gets a bit head crazy and starts waking up at all different hours and not sleeping etc.

Sometimes I have found, that for whatever reason, there are some nights she will go to sleep fine and then wake up within a couple of hours SCREAMING, nothing I do stops it, but she calms down eventually and goes back to sleep.

Sometimes, she simply will not go to sleep and is just screaming and I simply have to keep thinking about what will work whether it is rocking, breastfeeding etc or simply holding her while she cries. She is very mobile (nearly 8 months and cruising) and she wants to be up and doing everything her sisters are doing or just up and into everything.

I coslept with my eldest 2, no CIO, responded to every time they cried during the night and I have no problems with them at night time. DD2 can be awke until 9pm (they go up at 6pm for story time, snack and bed time drink, 7pm is lights out) but she doesn't come down stairs, she just stays up there and fiddles, looks at a book etc. If DD1 is awake longer than usual then they will often just talk to each other and if either wants anything, they just call down to us. I have been over friends houses and the kids are constantly up and down the stairs, shouting, screaming etc and those kids were brought up with CIO and no co sleeping (cos CIO is so great and really works and cosleeping is so bad and creating a rod for your own back lol).

People are ALWAYS amazed by our daughters night time behaviour, unless baby is being a bit off, we generally, from 7pm have an incredibly quiet house, the important thing though, is there was no trauma involved for the children or us, it was just gentleness that got us here and a desire for night times to be comfortable for both children and adults.
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#15 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 02:14 AM
 
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Just to add, my kiddlies are 5, 3 and baby is nearly 8 months.
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#16 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 02:38 AM
 
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zomigi, it sounds like you know what works for your little one--holding her while she sleeps. We did that for a time with both of our kids and they gradually don't need it. Why co-sleeping didn't work for you is confusing.

Overall, gentle nighttime parenting creates an environment where going to sleep is OK and loving and safe. It requires nurturing at a time when we're tired and want a break. But it gets easier and as children mature, they need less from us at night.

So do what you need to do to get through each night and that changes a lot during the first year and a half.
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#17 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 02:46 AM
 
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The way I see it, DD is a special person who deserves love and respect. I wouldn't close the door and ignore my DH if he was crying and screaming. And I won't do it to DD either.

I'm not saying this is the problem for every mom but anytime a mom complains to me about their LO not sleeping well...I find out they are expected to go to bed at some g-d awful early time and expected to sleep for 11 hours straight. AND they have 2-3 or even 4 naps during the day. I know infants need sleep. But honestly?

"Oh, his bedtime is at 6PM"

"I put her to bed at 6:15 every night"

"Mommy and Daddy need their alone time so the twins go down at 5:30"

Now, I hope I don't step on any toes b/c my motto is if it works don't mess it up. But if it ain't working...maybe try to put your baby to sleep when you actually go to sleep....or at least when it gets dark out...that might help!

My personal experience is that DD's needs fluctuate. Right now she needs a lot of sleep. She is falling asleep around 10pm and waking up around 10am. A month ago she was sleeping closer to 11pm and waking at 8:36am on the dot. Babies follow their bodies and do what they need to do. They don't obey outside influence. They don't need to get up early for a job or stay up late for a tv show. Unless you think a specific event knocked your baby off kilter, there's a reason he's waking up.

Do you have a partner who can help? Is your son co-sleeping?

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#18 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 03:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
"Oh, his bedtime is at 6PM"

"I put her to bed at 6:15 every night"

"Mommy and Daddy need their alone time so the twins go down at 5:30"
Man, those folks must think I'm a terrible parent, seeing as my 9.5mo isn't in bed till 10 or 11 many nights! And he's STILL up at the crack of dawn with *gasp* only 2 naps!

And no, he almost never STTN. He usually wakes 1-3 times, often with an hour long or longer crying jag because he has eczema and it's uncomfortable.

But you know what? When he's up, my husband or I are up comforting him. It's parents. It's our job. No one said it was easy. And yeah, sometimes I want to slam my head into a wall. That's life. The CIO "method" is just justification for not doing your job as a parent.

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#19 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 03:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Babies are babies. By definition they need mama. CIO is never okay. Never.

They are little for such a short time. Sleep with them, sleep while they nurse, cuddle them while they let you. Before you know it they'll be too big to cuddle.

-Angela
this

Quote:
Originally Posted by frontierpsych View Post

But you know what? When he's up, my husband or I are up comforting him. It's parents. It's our job. No one said it was easy. And yeah, sometimes I want to slam my head into a wall. That's life. The CIO "method" is just justification for not doing your job as a parent.
and this.

It goes so quickly. Even if you have 1-2 yrs of nights where you don't get a full night of uninterupted sleep, you'll be okay. Your baby, however, if left to CIO may not be okay!! I found that co-sleeping and learning to fall back asleep while they nursed made night-time parenting much easier than it would have been if I was fully waking up and walking down the hall every 2 hrs when they awoke.

6 mos is very little still. While some babies do sleep through the night at that age (my first did) most babies don't. But it won't be forever. Promise.

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#20 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 05:06 AM
 
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Man, those folks must think I'm a terrible parent, seeing as my 9.5mo isn't in bed till 10 or 11 many nights! And he's STILL up at the crack of dawn with *gasp* only 2 naps!

And no, he almost never STTN. He usually wakes 1-3 times, often with an hour long or longer crying jag because he has eczema and it's uncomfortable.

But you know what? When he's up, my husband or I are up comforting him. It's parents. It's our job. No one said it was easy. And yeah, sometimes I want to slam my head into a wall. That's life. The CIO "method" is just justification for not doing your job as a parent.
Even though my 3rd DD is happy to sleep from 5-5 or 6-6, my first DD wouldn't sleep until 10 or 11 at night but would sleep through until the morning.

Its definitely finding what works for your baby, experiment until you find something. If what works for the baby isn't working for you then you can, gradually and gently tweak things but it does take time and patience.
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#21 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 05:49 AM
 
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Tell me more about how it causes brain damage. I know he is not hungry because he doesn't want to eat Thanks for all your help!
When a baby cries the stress hormone cortisol is released, this is the same stress hormone found in you or I or anyone in situations in which we find difficult, in babies because all the energy the baby has is redirected to crying - calling for help - then the energy is used to protect the baby and not to stimulate brain development and growth, a child who is cuddled in beside mum and dad is a reassured and happy child, who is more confident and trustworthy of his/her parents abilities to respond to them and therefore the energy which is not wasted on crying is channelled elsewhere. Find the sleeping solution which works for you, co-sleeping, side-car-ing whatever ... take all clocks away from the bedroom with the incessant tick tick, only consider real waking up if you have to actually get out of bed etc. Maybe you could consider co-sleeping an investment for the future.

If your baby isn't hungry then isn't it reassuring to you, the parent, that your baby is calling for you and needing you - the sucking need is just as important as the actual nutrition a baby can receive from the breast, at this age they are so helpless, (anthropologically we, the human race, are born 9 months premature) you are the only ones who can give them what they need, I have noticed so much in today's society that to show love or affection to a child/baby is, in some cases, strictly forbidden, the new mother out with her baby in the pushchair, so many times I've seen such kind gestures and faces, her hand stretches out to touch, but she hesitates, rarely does the mother feel that she has the right to touch her baby, you do, pick the baby up carry her in your arms, sleep with your child, watch your little one sleeping listen to their soft breathing and heart beating, touch your baby's hand and kiss it, genuine love and caring is all your baby needs, a few more hours of being able to profit from your child's presence is a gift, did you realise what an important person you are? and you know you really are important both you and your partner, profit from this wonderful bonding time together and you'll never regret it.

Sorry got on to my alittle there, but its just a sore point that I hear many people discuss the pros and cons of CIO, I can see only the cons!!

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#22 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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Well just as soon as you get super frustrated about sleeping, lo and behold, she sleeps from 11:30 pm to 6:30 am! I know we'll probably be right back to a horrible night again tonight, but it's nice to have some good ones thrown in there when you really need them.

One of my main problems is that DH is really frustrated and isn't totally on board with avoiding CIO. It's hard when both parents aren't in complete agreement. Don't get me wrong -- he's into the attachment parenting stuff to about the same degree as I am, generally. But it's hard for him to completely ignore his upbringing which taught him that babies cry to manipulate you, you spoil them by responding to them, etc. And it's hard for him to ignore the myriad of people who tell us that we have to let our DD cry herself to sleep, including the pediatrician. We know a *ton* of people with babies but don't know a single person who hasn't done CIO. If we could find someone who could actually share their experience of getting their baby to learn to sleep on its own without having to cry, he and I would feel a lot better, I think.

Another hard thing is I'm so unsure of myself -- I don't know if I am making it worse or not. If I didn't let her nap as much during the day, would she sleep better at night? But what am I supposed to do when she's fussing or crying and obviously tired?

Thanks for the encouragement and not being judgmental. Being on this forum usually depresses me, because it's full of people with 2 year olds who still aren't sleeping through the night. :-) But I know that's not a representative sample, since otherwise they wouldn't be on this forum! Must remember that.
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#23 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 10:44 AM
 
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Part of what helped me and my husband really not give in to the temptation of CIO the MANY times when our AWFUL sleeper oldest daughter would get us to the point where we wanted to just give up was remembering that it is not the baby who is in the wrong... it is us. Many of our culture's expectations that a child needs to STTN without nursing or STTN at all before the age of 2 or 3 is flawed. We cannot truly expect a child to sleep more than a couple of hours at a certain age... and it is good. It is biological because they need to eat more often and they do not go into deep sleep, this is a survival instinct... not a flaw in their design or a fault in our parenting.

This is truly normal.

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#24 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 12:46 PM
 
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Mine doesn't CIO, I hate CIO and oppose it.

HOWEVER, sometimes when my son wakes in the middle of the night, I don't pick him up. Sometimes he just makes a few "uck, uck" kind of noises and sucks his hand and goes right back to sleep. This IMO is a great thing- he knows how to go back to sleep. But, if he actually starts to cry or do that breathing thing they do right before they cry, I pick him up, hug and kiss him, sing to him, cuddle him, and offer him the breast. I bring him to bed with me... and nurse him, then try again, or if I fall asleep, he just bed shares with me. This rarely happens to us these days- he's doing 7 hour stretches, and last night he did 9!

I don't have a set bedtime for him. He's only three months old! But even so, I intend to let him sleep when he's tired. If I put him down and he isn't ready, I never ever would just leave him screaming. Aside from thinking it's cruel, it activates my anxiety disorder. My very biology is opposed to CIO.
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#25 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 09:12 PM
 
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Babies are babies. By definition they need mama. CIO is never okay. Never.

They are little for such a short time. Sleep with them, sleep while they nurse, cuddle them while they let you. Before you know it they'll be too big to cuddle.

-Angela
This is pretty much what I tell people when they ask my opinion on CIO, extended bfing, and responding to my babies when they are cry in general.

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#26 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 10:11 PM
 
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When a baby cries the stress hormone cortisol is released, this is the same stress hormone found in you or I or anyone in situations in which we find difficult, in babies because all the energy the baby has is redirected to crying - calling for help - then the energy is used to protect the baby and not to stimulate brain development and growth, a child who is cuddled in beside mum and dad is a reassured and happy child, who is more confident and trustworthy of his/her parents abilities to respond to them and therefore the energy which is not wasted on crying is channelled elsewhere. Find the sleeping solution which works for you, co-sleeping, side-car-ing whatever ... take all clocks away from the bedroom with the incessant tick tick, only consider real waking up if you have to actually get out of bed etc. Maybe you could consider co-sleeping an investment for the future.

If your baby isn't hungry then isn't it reassuring to you, the parent, that your baby is calling for you and needing you - the sucking need is just as important as the actual nutrition a baby can receive from the breast, at this age they are so helpless, (anthropologically we, the human race, are born 9 months premature) you are the only ones who can give them what they need, I have noticed so much in today's society that to show love or affection to a child/baby is, in some cases, strictly forbidden, the new mother out with her baby in the pushchair, so many times I've seen such kind gestures and faces, her hand stretches out to touch, but she hesitates, rarely does the mother feel that she has the right to touch her baby, you do, pick the baby up carry her in your arms, sleep with your child, watch your little one sleeping listen to their soft breathing and heart beating, touch your baby's hand and kiss it, genuine love and caring is all your baby needs, a few more hours of being able to profit from your child's presence is a gift, did you realise what an important person you are? and you know you really are important both you and your partner, profit from this wonderful bonding time together and you'll never regret it.

Sorry got on to my alittle there, but its just a sore point that I hear many people discuss the pros and cons of CIO, I can see only the cons!!
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#27 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 10:22 PM
 
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i think 6 mos is a rough time. thats probably when we stopped trying to put DS to bed. he hangs out with us and we hold him and cuddle and such while we watch a movie or w/e and he will fall asleep. sometimes i will go lay in bed with him and listen to books on tape (i get bored laying in a dark room with my half asleep toddler )
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#28 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 11:31 PM
 
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LET your baby nap during the day!!!!

The more my baby naps the BETTER he sleeps at night. When your child is sleepy, let her sleep JMO
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#29 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 11:34 PM
 
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LET your baby nap during the day!!!!

The more my baby naps the BETTER he sleeps at night. When your child is sleepy, let her sleep JMO
this is true to.. ds naps for at least 2 hrs during the day... sometimes more.
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#30 of 62 Old 06-26-2009, 11:37 PM
 
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LET your baby nap during the day!!!!

The more my baby naps the BETTER he sleeps at night. When your child is sleepy, let her sleep JMO
yeah, DS sleeps better if he's had some decent naps.

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