Did your frequent night waker/nurser eventually start STTN w/out nightweaning? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 10-08-2009, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not at the point of nightweaning because 1) I think my DD is too young and I want her to be verbal before we even think of going there, and 2) while somedays I feel done I think I still have some juice left in me to keep at it. My DD *can* go back to sleep on her own and she's been doing it more frequently lately, but we're still averaging 6+ night wakings that include nursing and if she *does* go back to sleep without nursing it's usually for a very short amount of time and then she wakes again wanting to nurse.

My ultimate goal would be to never nightwean her, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it so I've set a goal of re-evaluating at 18 months. I'm just looking for some support or success stories of LOs who were terrible sleepers or all night nursers growing out of it or eventually STTN WITHOUT having to nightwean them. And if they did, were they all much older, like 3 or so? That seems a very long way away for this sleep deprived Mama.

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#2 of 27 Old 10-08-2009, 05:36 PM
 
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It's so tiring, isn't it? My ds1 was like yours, and I did end up nightweaning at 22 months. It improved the nights somewhat, and since then things have gradually improved to a point where he STTN most of the time now (at 6, lol). But it has been years since he needed our help to go back to sleep. From about age two and a half or three he would start out in his own bed and just come to ours and go back to sleep.
With ds2 we had lots of trouble with nursing, and he weaned altogether well before 12 months. Overall he was a much better sleeper, but if it's related, who knows?
All in all, I agree with you that it's early for nightweaning, but if things get too hard on you, it might help (to a degree).
Wishing you peaceful nights!

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#3 of 27 Old 10-08-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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#4 of 27 Old 10-08-2009, 06:37 PM
 
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I nursed DS1 until he was 3 but nightweaned him at 18 months because I couldn't stand it. When he would go thru growth spurts he'd nurse every hour, sometimes every 30 minutes! He slept MUCH better after nightweaning. Honestly, I think that's the dirty secret of b'feeding and cosleeping--everyone I've ever talked to about it says their LO slept better once they night weaned.

check out the Jay Gordon method for when you're ready--very gentle.
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#5 of 27 Old 10-08-2009, 06:50 PM
 
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I didn't really night wean, and he STTN on his own around age 2. The night wakings slowed down around then. I would give him water if he asked for it, and ask him to go back to sleep.. if he got fussy and demanded to nurse we would.

I didn't really set any limits on nursing at all until about 18 m. He self-weaned at about 2 and a half.
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#6 of 27 Old 10-08-2009, 06:57 PM
 
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Not yet, but I'm hopeful! I had to nightwean DS (@ age 3) and DD (just before she turned 2) to get even a 3 hour stretch... and they were BOTH nursing at night every 2 hours at least until I nightweaned DS. I'm fairly certain I just learned to live without sleep during that time.

I'm hoping I'll luck out and this babe will like sleep

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#7 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 10:21 AM
 
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I'm subscribing because I'd also really like to know this. DS is 21 months and has weeks where he barely nurses at night and then weeks like this last one where he nurses like a newborn all night. I'm on the fence about night-weaning and hoping he'll just grow out of it himself. Kids do that, right? Before they start school even? Maybe?

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#8 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 10:24 AM
 
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Mine didn't. I nightweaned her at 18 months.

Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
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#9 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 03:14 PM
 
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#10 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 04:16 PM
 
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I nightweaned at 2.75. She was waking very often before I nightweaned her...so it wasn't going to happen on its own.

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#11 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ugh, last night was rough! I have to admit, I wish I was getting different answers! I'm not a big fan of the Mama I become in the middle of the night when DD is waking every 15-30 min and pinching and kicking and crawling all over me.

For you that nightweaned when your kiddos were still waking frequently, how did they take it? Do you think it helped that they were verbal and you were able to explain what was going on? Was there still a lot of crying or did they just accept the "boobies are sleeping" scenario?

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#12 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 05:28 PM
 
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Honestly, I think that's the dirty secret of b'feeding and cosleeping--everyone I've ever talked to about it says their LO slept better once they night weaned.
I totally disagree with this statement. Around 18 months (give or take several months) they just need to nurse more. Part of this is an increased need for immunity as they are venturing further away from 'home base' and part of this is because they are SO busy during the day that they make up the difference at night.

I think there is a correlation between night weaning and better sleep because that is generally the phase that leads people to night wean, but their children would have outgrown the frequent nursing at night anyway.

I also think that often a difficulty getting your child to sleep for longer stretches can be a sign that they are ready for a change in their sleep patterns (shorter, earlier nap, different sleeping place, different sleep routine, less stimulation later in the day, etc). Or that other strategies could come BEFORE nursing so they gradually learn to fall asleep in different ways.

I have 4 kids and they all are very different sleepers. My eldest didn't sleep much or well at all. He still is a terrible sleeper at age 8. He takes that from me as I am a terrible sleeper at 33 (and I was never breastfed, just bottle propped from birth with formula and pablum!). Ds2 is 6 and he has slept for up to 14 hours a night from BIRTH. Dd1 is 4 and she is a busy girl day and night. She went through some really strange night waking phases, but she never really nursed at night past 17 months. Dd2 is 2 and wakes once to nurse then goes right back to sleep. She was waking a few times a month or so ago, and nursing all night a few months before that. It has been gradual.

I don't nightwean mine, but I do change how we deal with nightwaking as they get older (just like everything else changes SLOWLY and GRADUALLY as they get older). I wouldn't try to deal with night nursing in a toddler the same way I would with a newborn, they are at different stages and need different things from me. All of mine did start sleeping in longer stretches at some point in the toddler years and it hasn't been effortless on my part. But it has never included night weaning as that just wasn't an option I was willing to consider.

Good luck, sleep is such an important thing for all parties


 

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#13 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 08:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Amber Lion View Post
For you that nightweaned when your kiddos were still waking frequently, how did they take it? Do you think it helped that they were verbal and you were able to explain what was going on? Was there still a lot of crying or did they just accept the "boobies are sleeping" scenario?
I'll be honest, she was not impressed for about 4 or 5 days. It wasn't sadness, she was pissed off. I know her cries, and these were angry cries. I was sympathetic, gentle, and firm, and because she took a pacifier too I had that as a backup. If she didn't take a pacifier, I'm sure it would have been a lot worse. When she was teething, I would give her teething tabs and a half dose of Motrin before bedtime, and then have another batch ready to go around 2am...neither the teething tabs or the Motrin did anything on their own, but combined they worked REALLY well. I know Motrin isn't a real popular thing around here, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.

My son, and this was before I found MDC, easily nightweaned at 10 months (still daytime nursed obviously), which perhaps not coincidentally was when we *started* full time cosleeping with him. He was healthy, thriving, attached, and it happened without much issue. He had only been waking once or twice at night at that point and one night I tried just holding him with his pacifier and he was OK with it, and there were no tears and he continued to cosleep with us until...well, he still sneaks in some mornings at 5am and he's 5-3/4!

I think it really, really depends a LOT on the kid, their temperament and personality. Good luck to you - I remember those days...er, nights.

Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
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#14 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 09:11 PM
 
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I nightweaned DD around 20 months-ish tho it took awhile to complete it - I stopped earlier nursings, and let her keep the ones that were after 1am, then after 3 am, and then cut out some more, til we were done. Each time tho, after a few nights she'd sleep through a stretch when she used to wake up. It seemed to be the only way. We did have a few backtracks due to colds or whatever IIRC. She weaned for good about a month ago at 3.75 years old, and I think she'd still be night nursing (and I'd still not be sleeping) if we hadn't deliberately night weaned.
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#15 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 09:34 PM
 
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My dd was waking up very frequently, and I nightweaned at 24 months. It was really really easy, took two nights, involved no tears, and she STTN from then on. I think timing might be part of it - easier if you time it right, maybe. But no, she woke up every hour or two until that point, so it did require the nightweaning to change that.
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#16 of 27 Old 10-09-2009, 10:09 PM
 
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By nightweaning, do you mean a deliberate process of working with your child to disallow nursing at night? Because a baby can't exactly always sleep all the way through the night, AND nurse in the middle of the night. STTN full-time IS also nightweaned.


I don't think breastfeeding is inextricably tied to night-waking. My dd did seven-hour stretches from the first night she was home from the hospital, and she was ebf. We only had night-waking episodes once the school year started again and I was back to work full-time; she was a HUGE reverse-cycler. Night weaning for us was a very slow, gentle work in progress, but I did intentionally night wean around her second birthday (as a school year was coming to a close and I would be home with her for 2 1/2 months.) Even now, nearly six months later, if she really desperately wants to nurse at 2 in the morning, we do, but it's rare, and she usually falls asleep after nursing now (only occasionally while nursing), and sleeps for a solid 10 hours or more. If she wakes, she doesn't usually need to nurse back to sleep anymore.

If we hadn't nightweaned, I'm certain she'd still be nursing a couple of times during the night.
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#17 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 08:17 AM
 
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Is it possible that there are food allergies in play here? My dd was a frequent night waker/nurser until I eliminated all her allergens from my diet and then she started STTN and is now a great sleeper. She was waking as many as a dz times a night and was almost 2 at the time, so totally not normal for her age.

Beth wife to Tom and mommy to Therese 11/4/04 Anna Mary 6/15/07 and Veronica 10/20/09
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#18 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 08:19 AM
 
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Yes, just around her 2cnd birthday. Hope that helps!

grateful Mama to DD May '06 and DS May '09
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#19 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 08:54 AM
 
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With my DS2, who was a TERRIBLE sleeper from birth and nursed on cue day and night, he did not sleep well at night until he was night weaned at 20 mo. (just like eeeevveryone said; and I purposely don't tell those ppl the correlation bc I think the pressure to night wean with a fussy sleeper is sort of rediculous as a blanket statement). I had to do it bc of a medical reason I was having; each night he woke and SCREAMED in Daddy's arms till he exhausted himself, for about a week and a half. It was terrible terrible terrible. I would not have done it unless I HAD to. But I have to be truthful; he did start sleeping better pretty immediately. He is 25 mo now and sleeps GREAT. We are able to still night nurse during illness and such without him demanding it on a typical night. When he stopped nursing and started sleeping, he also started being willing to sleep in his own space & sleeping well there.

My DS1 was a fine to good sleeper through babyhood (weaned by 6 mo)--at 1year he started having sleeping troubles (many night wakings, unable to be comforted, etc.) He was a fussy sleeper from about 1 y/o to at least three.

I have a friend who nightweaned according to the Jay Gordon plan (bc she had a child who woke several times at night to nurse and had a lot of trouble sleeping alone, or even if he wasn't actually touching her...I'm sure you guys know the drill! :P) at about 15 mo maybe??...and her child is still wakes several times a night needing to be settled back down and still comes into bed with them (child is 2 y o).

So there are my anecdotal stories of three different kids with sleep 'problems' (in quotations for a reason) with different experiences with nursing and night weaning and three different results. IMO, there are worse things than having to wake up a couple times a night to nurse a kiddo back to sleep. There is always the possiblity that your kid will still wake up and you will actually have to get out of bed and read, sing, walk with them, staying away for hour/s because you no longer have the advantage of being able to just nurse them back down.

BRB...
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#20 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 09:15 AM
 
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Ok, I am back. OP, I read your first post over again. I want to mention that it doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach. With my DS2, he used to sit straight up screaming in the night, sometimes as often as every 45 min. Exhausting. He did have food allergies, but these were under control by abt 12 mo. He had an undiagnosed UTI for a while and was sleeping terribly and losing weight; that was the height of his poor sleeping as a toddler. Once we figured that out he was sleeping a little better... I am also suspicious that he may have been having reflux bc of the way he was acting when he woke up (from sound asleep to screaming bloody murder sitting straight up in bed)...and bc as an infant he used to only sleep if he was upright.

SO, though the abrupt nightweaning made a big difference, it was really a process where other things made a difference too (def. look into allergens if you can) and as he got older, it got easier. At about 15 mo I stopped offering the boob automatically at every single waking. I started trying to work with him and see if he could settle himself back down (we co slept so he was right beside me in the bed) with a whine or two, or if he wanted to cuddle, or have a drink of water or have me rub his back and say shhhh shhh. This prob. cut the night nursings in half, which prob brought us to night nursing only maybe 4 times a night. That is an idea you may be able to try in a couple of months, trying to gently redirect and if she really needs the boob, then give her the boob. From your siggy she is still fairly young, though believe me, I KNOW it is hard for us mamas to not sleep well!!!
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#21 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama View Post
I totally disagree with this statement. Around 18 months (give or take several months) they just need to nurse more. Part of this is an increased need for immunity as they are venturing further away from 'home base' and part of this is because they are SO busy during the day that they make up the difference at night.

I think there is a correlation between night weaning and better sleep because that is generally the phase that leads people to night wean, but their children would have outgrown the frequent nursing at night anyway.

I also think that often a difficulty getting your child to sleep for longer stretches can be a sign that they are ready for a change in their sleep patterns (shorter, earlier nap, different sleeping place, different sleep routine, less stimulation later in the day, etc). Or that other strategies could come BEFORE nursing so they gradually learn to fall asleep in different ways.

I have 4 kids and they all are very different sleepers. My eldest didn't sleep much or well at all. He still is a terrible sleeper at age 8. He takes that from me as I am a terrible sleeper at 33 (and I was never breastfed, just bottle propped from birth with formula and pablum!). Ds2 is 6 and he has slept for up to 14 hours a night from BIRTH. Dd1 is 4 and she is a busy girl day and night. She went through some really strange night waking phases, but she never really nursed at night past 17 months. Dd2 is 2 and wakes once to nurse then goes right back to sleep. She was waking a few times a month or so ago, and nursing all night a few months before that. It has been gradual.

I don't nightwean mine, but I do change how we deal with nightwaking as they get older (just like everything else changes SLOWLY and GRADUALLY as they get older). I wouldn't try to deal with night nursing in a toddler the same way I would with a newborn, they are at different stages and need different things from me. All of mine did start sleeping in longer stretches at some point in the toddler years and it hasn't been effortless on my part. But it has never included night weaning as that just wasn't an option I was willing to consider.

Good luck, sleep is such an important thing for all parties
Thanks for this. I have an 18mo DD and I needed to hear this. She's gone from sleeping for a five hour stretch to waking every hour. It's exhausting and it really helps to be reminded of the reasons behind this behavior.

Very much appreciated....you have no idea...

GOOD moms let their kids lick the beaters. GREAT moms turn off the mixer first!
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#22 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 02:33 PM
 
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No problem! I forget this myself with every child It is hard to see it from their perspective and to remember that they are still really babies who still need us at 2am AND 3am AND 4am.....

Thankfully it passes. And then they are big and don't need you in the same way. Then you look back at those days with fondness It doesn't seem like such a big deal after all.


 

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#23 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 06:27 PM
 
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Yes!!! Sometimes.

My son nursed every 1-2 hours every night and I was sooo nervous about nightweaning, because he loves he "ma milk" so much. But almost exactly when he turned two, he just started sleeping through the night 3-4 nights a week, and nurses only once the other nights. I did nothing to bring about this change of behavior--- I think his 2 year molars coming in made a huge difference.
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#24 of 27 Old 10-10-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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I'm sorry, but no, mine didn't. Sleeping through/mostly through the night corresponded EXACTLY with weaning for both of them. With dd it was at exactly 2 years old, we started to limit nursing, and she started STTN, but we did continue to nurse during the day for another 6 months.
With ds, i hit a WALL, and i knew from prior experience with dd, that it woudl only get worse, and I woudl get more bitter, and resentful, and loathing of my child, if we didn't start to limit nursing, so we started limiting at 18 months. Shortly thereafter, he started sleeping more, and now at 21 months, he is STTN, maybe waking once for water. It'ds hard to tell "normal" since we've been sick a lot lately.

Sorry..not the answer you wanted, i know.

CPST
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#25 of 27 Old 10-11-2009, 02:02 PM
 
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#26 of 27 Old 10-11-2009, 06:28 PM
 
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subbing...op, are you me? i could have written that word for word. although this week we have had slightly longer stretches of sleep. i'm hopeful, but also expect many more ups and downs.

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
Her signature would be: Sleep is for the Weak
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#27 of 27 Old 10-12-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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My DD is 27 months and started STTN (6-8 hour stretches) around 22? months without any structured nightweaning. I feel like a brand new person.

She just naturally started sleeping longer and longer stretches.

Now, she will wake up to nurse a few times a night every once in a while but nothing like she used.

I really think it will happen for almost everyone, if you can just wait it out.

And for sure, around 18 months DD was up what seemed like every hour.

R~Mama to my sweet A 7//07 & bubbly Z 3/12

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