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Old 10-13-2009, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There have been a few posts over the last month or so that I’ve really been able to relate to. You know, the breaking point posts. I was wondering how those mamas were doing. Any changes? Any progress?

DS is going to be one on October 24. He sleeps worse now than he did as a newborn. At 3 months he was going 4 and 5 hours consistently. Now the longest I get is 2 hours and that’s not even every night. Plus we usually have an hour or so long wakeful period around 3. He nurses 6-10 times a night. He only drinks 9 or 10 oz of pumped milk during the day while I am at work. I am a mess. My marriage is suffering, my work is suffering, and my older DS is suffering. I can’t remember what day of the week it is half the time…

As I was up last night, (for the 5th or so time) I was thinking that I have to make a change. Now. I am feeling too angry and resentful and it’s not healthy for me or DS. I was literally crying and begging DS to go to sleep…(which of course, freaked him out and caused him to stay awake longer…) So my plan is to try night weaning this weekend. It may help us, or it may be so horrific I abandon it by Sunday. Who knows. But I do know I need to change this, and it can’t be worse than now, right? Maybe I’ll start a new post about our night weaning adventure on Friday. I have a feeling I’ll need the support
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:05 PM
 
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Oh mama, a big hug to you! My DS will be one this coming Monday and like yours have been sleeping worse compared to when he was younger. He used to nurse, pop off and turn away to sleep. I got a full night's rest that way but now, he would stay awake for up to 2 hours or more, crying, fussing, scratching, etc...

I've spent many nights crying in anger and resentment. I'm angry at him, angry at myself, and angry for being angry.

I started night weaning a few weeks ago without following anything really strict. He gave me a few 5-6 hour stretches and I was over the moon. But now... sigh... I'm too tired to even think. I'm thinking of using a pacifier... I've made it one whole year without and now I want to use it!

I feel like a failure. Like I've been too ignorant and naive. Most mums I know have babies who are sleeping through the night and can't believe that I'm still nursing that much. They think I'm dumb for co-sleeping and not using cio. DS is so separation sensitive that he would only be left with me or DH. We get no breaks and have no close family around to help.

So here you go mamas... my pity party! Yet there are so many things to be thankful for. Oh so many!!! His smiles, his laughter, his confidence, his soft huggable little body. A roof over my head, food on the table, husband who loves me, a God who has promised to never leave nor forsake me.

Thanks for reading and yes, we're not alone!

Love Jesus, love husband and love DS1 (10/08) & DS2 (12/10) kid.gif
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:15 PM
 
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I'm with you. DD just turned one Sunday and my first thought was yes we can nightwean! Then the booger had to get sick so we're waiting until that's over. How are you going to do it?

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Old 10-13-2009, 05:21 PM
 
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Great thread!

I (and my DH actually) get a lot of comfort from reading other's posts on here. Like PP, my DS was a pretty good sleeper until five months when we started on the 1-2 hour wakings. We've had some good stints over the last 4 months (well, a couple of days here and there) but there seems no rhyme or reason to why one night he does okay and the next is a wreck. I've tried elimination diets, I've tried NCSS, I've tried earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, more naps, less naps etc etc!!!!

I have days when I'm depressed about it, and I don't use that word lightly. I've had nights when I've cried and cried and cried.

I just don't see how we could have done anything differently and from reading other posts, I think our babies probably have a lot in common. I have a moderately high needs baby who has done everything early - crawled by 5 months, 8 teeth by 7 months, he's about to walk now at 9 months. We co-sleep because our DS demanded it and we occasionally try the crib and it's an awful night.

I am resigned to thinking he just isn't ready to learn to sleep by himself yet (even though he used to!!).

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Old 10-13-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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I dont have a lot of time to post right now, but count me in!! We are having a really rough time right now with molars coming in.. not that we have ever had a good time with sleeping! on a normal night he wakes hourly.. I am tired. so so so tired.

But like a PP said, there are so many things to be thankful for.. He is a beautiful, smart, curious, active, confident, eager, exploring, sweet little boy and we are lucky he is ours. Just wanted to post a pic.. cuz.. I like to brag on my boy!!

Catie belly.gif- Happy wife to Aaron stillheart.gif(01.05), mama to Liambikenew.gif(08.08), and Ian jammin.gif (11.10)! homebirth.jpgnocirc.giffamilybed1.gif and joy.gif due Feb 2013 with blessing #3!

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Old 10-13-2009, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks mamas! I'm gettin' a warm and fuzzy feeling from this thread and I need it!

Catie, your son is adorable! It's so hard to be angry when we have so much to be grateful for, I know. I'll be back later, still at work!
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by coleybug View Post
Plus we usually have an hour or so long wakeful period around 3.
Just re-reading the posts and we have often have this wakeful period at 3am too! What is it about 3am I wonder??

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Old 10-14-2009, 09:28 AM
 
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for you ladies!

As I am writing this she just woke up an hour after I put her down so I had to run in and nurse her quickly. I've got maybe another hour or 2 until the next one. sigh.

Our sleep issues also started at around 6 months old, she was a 2 time a night-er until then...sniff, those were the days...I also think our babies have a lot in common. DD is a medium-high needs who has done everything earlier than most. We should do a poll on that, or someone should study it or something!!

Luckily, we are not as bad as we have been. I guess this is actually good compared to a few months ago. She is still an hourly-2hourly waker right now and most of the time she will pop herself off and turn over. But we just hit 1 year on Saturday and I'm ready for longer stretches and think she should be too. I am scared to night wean though, she gets maaaaad if I deny her 'na-na' when she still wants it. I have successfully told her "No more" randomly in the middle of the night and she has immediately turned over quietly... but it doesn't always work and she will get worked up really quickly.

Then the other thing is, I am worried that she still needs to eat at night. I know they say she shouldn't at this age but she doesn't eat THAT much solids and she is a 'slender' little thing and I don't want her losing any weight or anything.

I hope we can all help each other in here, I get a lot out of reading others posts who are going through the same things.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm with you. DD just turned one Sunday and my first thought was yes we can nightwean! Then the booger had to get sick so we're waiting until that's over. How are you going to do it?
Gordon method. Modified as I need to. Do a search for Dr. Jay Gordon, it's a very gentle way and caters to co-sleeping families as well.

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Then the other thing is, I am worried that she still needs to eat at night. I know they say she shouldn't at this age but she doesn't eat THAT much solids and she is a 'slender' little thing and I don't want her losing any weight or anything.
DS is smaller too. And not big into solids. My problem is like reverse cycling. He's nursing soooo much at night that he's only drinking 9 or 10 oz during the day! So I'm hoping by cutting back at night, he will take in more during the day. I've read (and my ped agreed) that bulking them up during the day doesn't make them cut back at night. *Cutting back* at night makes them take more during the day.

for all of us! We are so strong, aren't we??? We are all doing a great job! As I like to say at 3 am, "It won't be like this forever. You *will* sleep again."

I would say DS is medium needs…definitely clingier than my first DS. But unlike my first DS, he is not very verbal *at all*. Like I said, he will be one on the 24th and the only “word” he has is “ya-ya”.

Anyway, dare I say last night was marginally better? Did he read this message board? Maybe he’s worried b/c I said I’m gonna night wean!
The only difference last night was I gave him a half dose of Motrin for his teeth. He nursed to sleep and slept 2.5 hours.

I don’t know what it is about the 3 am wake up. Last night was from about 3:20 to 4 am. Not bad compared to other nights.

In the last week I’ve decided to try to do some things for me to help…drinking lots more water, cutting out sugar/flour (as mentioned by hrsmom), taking my prenatals plus a Vit D supplement, probiotics, cutting almost all caffiene.

I’ve also discovered that DS is allergic to dairy. He breaks out in hives if he is given any dairy. I wonder if my dairy consumption affects him…I’m going to give up as dairy and see if it makes any difference.

At this point, I am still going to try to night wean starting Friday. Heck, a month ago he would not sleep in his crib at all, and now he starts out there for about 2 hours and sometimes ends up there after the 3 am wake up. Another mantra I learned here "It will never happen if I don't try."

mamas!
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:03 PM
 
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LeoneLover13 I'm so glad to see you're doing a bit better!! I was so worried about you. It sounded SO rough for you every 30 minutes, man that's tough.

Coleybug - we had a better night too! And the night before. Bizarre huh? He also napped for TWO hours this morning and he is the king of catnaps. I have NO idea what caused these changes. Maybe he was just exhausted? Actually, we gave him motrin about 5pm yesterday because he was so fussy and seemed in pain, maybe that helped? Maybe he's teething again? I can't see anything. It's such a guessing game isn't it?

Oh DS, how I love you, but why won't you sleep??!!

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Old 10-14-2009, 09:26 PM
 
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hi louisep & everyone

not much to add; just wanted to say i'm following this thread. & will be listening in on the nightweaning stories. i'm gonna google Jay Gordon now.

DD 12/08
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:44 PM
 
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i am a recent poster as such..

just wanted to let you all know i will be following this thread and hope we can support one another.

my son is 7.5 mos, is usually good natured but is having an awful sleep time the past few weeks. it has been up and down from birth through the past 6-7 mos, but this is a whole new level. he was usually getting at least one good 3-5 hour stretch in between 1 month of age and 6 mos of age, and now the longest seems to be 1-2 hours.. and most days, no naps except in arms while in motion and attached to my breast, or am learning to do a woven wrap and the ergo back carry so i can at least do something like study without a big bulge hindering me in front, if my brain is functional enough (which it has not been lately, but what are you gonna do)

i have definitely gotten to that edge this past weekend where i literally threw all my son's cloth diapers and toys and things into a bunch of reusable grocery bags, put him in the carseat, and took him to grandma's for a night- i never thought i would do that with a babe his age, it felt like a failure, but i was out of options, and i realize logically it was healthier and safer for us both even though emotionally it is hard for me to think about, i know i got a good night's rest and he was safe with loving family members and that is okay, it has to be.

i ordered "no cry sleep solution" and it arrived today, have started trying to acclimate him to short playtimes/naptimes in the playpen so it is not associated with being a bad/sad place, and hope to start reading/implementing ncss. also ordered amber for teething as his toppers are starting to come in and i think that is a part of it. and since several friends have shared experience/concern with allergies or gut issues i have cut out the few solids i introduced. i noticed yesterday/today he is getting another awful yeast rash on his bum to top everything else off so i will be going back on the probiotics tonight or tomorrow, and him too, and hoping that little by little things improve.. but my schoolwork is definitely suffering as is my sanity. like louisep said, it's just a (majorly stressful) guessing game, but the past couple days, with additional help and slightly better nights, have given me enough sanity back to feel like i can start taking small steps towards implementing solutions and working on it at least..

i have been so lucky to have several friends and family really step up, as a solo parent i really needed (and continue to need it) now more than ever, i feel like everything is hitting really hard right now. i know logically it will get better but i feel sometimes like it will never end and like i just want to go hide somewhere and cry (and SLEEP for goddess sake).

i have today committed to reverse the bad habit i have created, where i stay up and waste time and let him sleep at the breast for hours on end simply because i so psychologically dread trying to set him down alone, or transfer both him and i into lying in our bed, and thus waking him and starting all over again.. but i have to do it.. which is why i am off to give it a go, cross your fingers, may be back in .4 seconds or less, this is attempt number two so far tonight but he did not nap today so i figure he is definitely tired and if i start early maybe will work before he gets too overtired?? i know have to keep trying. anyone have luck w/ sleep logs and/or food logs, finding patterns or causes, i think that is the basis of the ncss approach? or is it just a wait it out thing? i guess it varies, but would be nice to hear from those who have been there, although i think this thread should obviously serve as supporting one another and checking in too- but i for one would welcome additional opinions and ideas and solutions, here or maybe via pm, whatever seems preferable, on this whole freaking sleep thing. maybe i will start my own thread here on our specific issues so this one can stay a support thread, is that OP's intent? just lmk, don't want to take it over but this is new to me, whereas it sounds like some of you mamas have been dealing with this for a long time (please tell me it ends!? sometime? ever? lol)

hang in there mamas.. Off to try to get us into bed....

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:46 PM
 
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Thanks Louisep...it was really rough there for a few months. But hopefully that gives you all hope that it will get at least a little better!

Another thing they all seem to have in common is that they are all really hard teethers. DD gets in so much pain sometimes that even motrin won't help.

That is an interesting thought coleybug, it makes sense. DD doesn't eat that much during the day now it's a lot more at night. I guess "it'll never happen if I don't try" I have been gently trying the jay gordon method. But a much slower progression. I'm just picking a few times a night where I tell her 'no more', or just don't give her the boob and she has been giving up after 30 seconds or so. But then she'll try again a few mins later. And I'm progressively doing it more and more each night until, hopefully, she won't ask for it anymore.

Love this thread already!
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:43 AM
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Just re-reading the posts and we have often have this wakeful period at 3am too! What is it about 3am I wonder??
We are up at 3 AM too! We should do a chat at 3 AM thread. Mine wakes up to poop about that time every night and then doesn't go back to sleep for a while. We were up last night from 4:30 til 6. DS was up at 7, so... not much sleep for us.

A friend recently told me when I asked about the 3 AM thing that babies KNOW that 3 AM is the time that everyone should be asleep. Some people go to bed at 2 AM, and some people are up at 4 AM for work, so 3 AM is the best time to universally disturb the family. It must be evolutionary.

Hugs to all you mamas who are sleep deprived. I'm right there with you. My DD has slept nominally better the last 3 nights, but I have been so worried about stuff going on with other things that I am not sleeping very well anyway. *Sigh* Someday we will all get a good night's rest. At least DD is cheery at 3 AM. DS was always screamy when he was up in the middle of the night.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:40 AM
 
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Well that was a colossal failure. Started trying as my son was exhausted (no nap today, as sometimes happens) and fell asleep nursing around 8. Tried to put him down around 8:25, woke, nursed, posted here above, back in around maybe 9:30 my time to put him down, woke, nursed and walked, down again at 9:45. Finally, success. Slept for one hour 5 min. right next to him in the bed but not with him latched on which is a huge success in my book, and 10:50 he again woke, screaming, thrashing, nursing, stopping, latching unlatching, repositioning, I'd get him to sleep then he would scream again, nothing works. Repeat ad nauseum until 12:20, for an hour and a half doing this, and now we are just up because there was no point in trying anymore. Now he seems fine romping around, and I gave him a cold teething thingie from the fridge to chew but he didn't really want it, but he seemed so uncomfortable in the bed!?

I am making a snack and contemplating what and whether to give him some sort of medicine for teething because I am thinking that is a part of this. I don' t think I really have anything in the house though and I don't want to drive to the 24 hour pharmacy so far away and sleep deprived.. so idk.

He also seemed like he was both cold/hot, because he gets sweaty really easily but then he was kinda chilly, like a cold sweat almost? I know that a mild fever can go with teething, and if he is anything like me he probably cannot regulate his temp very well, many a night I feel the same, so I had him loose in a onesie and socks to start, tried a tight warm swaddle, belly massage seemed to help some, wouldn't potty but passed some gas so I think his tummy is bothering him too since the belly massaging and pushing his legs up seemed to help, he actually fell asleep with me jiggling him and holding him down on the bed in the dark room with his legs pushed up like that, but I could only do that so long, so after 10-15 minutes of that I tried wedging a blanket around him to keep his legs somewhat in that position and he woke right up and screamed and thrashed some more. Seemed like he was exhausted and uncomfortable and just could not get comfortable or sleep normally. I cannot decide if he is fighting sleep or if sleep is fighting him and what all else is contributing to this, I don't know what to do.

I have to wake up in six and a half hours and I don't think I will be sleeping anytime soon, not looking forward to another day of insanity and feeling awful and drinking coffee with caffeine (which I had stopped drinking for over 2 years and through pregnancy and nursing, just the past few days it is my new habit, which I am sure is not helping matters)

It's like you can have one or two ok nights, 4-6 hours of decent sleep and think, ok I can do this, and one f'ing night like this throws you right back over that edge of resentment and lack of ability to function and second guessing everything.

so basically i got absolutely nothing done today and i need to sleep. does it have to be this hard?


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Old 10-15-2009, 03:56 AM
 
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and the thing that kills me is, even at the times in the past when we've had stages of frequent night waking, it hasn't been like this, it's been like, ok nurse groggily for 2 minutes and go back to sleep, not like need to get out of bed and pace and screaming baby and seeming like he is in pain or whatnot- it was like, i could deal with every hour or two wakings if they were like that, easy short wakings just to assure that mama was right next to him or for a quick sip of milk, but this is entirely different. *sigh*

to other mamas in this boat. its no fun.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:04 AM
 
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Mama_Gaia-

I think we have all been there. That one night that just kills you and you don't think you can do it anymore, you're just done. Then they make it easier for a little while, build your spirits and tolerance back up just to knock it back down again a few days later.

IT WILL GET BETTER!

As far as what's going on with your LO, it definitely sounds like teething to me. Especially since it's only when he's in bed, that's what my DD does. The pain gets much worse when they lay down so I half dose her with motrin and lay her on her boppy to sleep, just so her head is slightly elevated.

Good luck today and tonight, I hope you have a better one!
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:32 AM
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Hugs, Mama_Gaia. It sounds like teething to me too. The screaming, pacing, trying everything you can think of when your brain can't think of very much of anything sounds all too familiar to me. My DS was a miserable sleeper, and there were many nights where I wondered what the heck I was doing. It will get lots better, I promise.

Well, we were up at 6 again. I know it's not that early, but I had bad insomnia last night worrying about my DS and thinking about some other stuff. I am normally a very heavy sleeper and do not have any sleep problems, so I have no coping mechanism for insomnia. I just get angry, which makes me more awake . DD woke up 4 times last night to pee and had to switch sides a few times before going back down. She was also clawing at my boob all night. Gotta cut those darn fingernails again! Up at 6 AM to poop. It's like clockwork. Oh well, at least it wasn't 4 AM to poop.

DS has been having some trouble sleeping lately, but DH is in with him, so I don't hear much about it, just that it was a bad/ok night. He just wakes up a lot before someone comes to bed with him, mostly.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's like you can have one or two ok nights, 4-6 hours of decent sleep and think, ok I can do this, and one f'ing night like this throws you right back over that edge of resentment and lack of ability to function and second guessing everything.
I was mulling this last night. Because I've had 2 decent nights, I feel so much better...able to formulate a plan...my stress level is low, not angry, not short tempered. I feel good about attempting to night wean this weekend b/c I feel like I have something in the "reserves". But one horrid night (like the night I had when I wrote the original post) and you are at the bottom again. I went back and reread my original post and I can *hear* the frustration and despair. I feel for you mama, because I *know* the despair and hopeless feeling. But I agree with LeoneLover13, might be teeth. My DS likes to chew on frozen binkies during the day. He won't take one at night, but during the day he seems soothed by them. I've also used Hylands with some improvement, but they are lactose based and I hesitate now that I've discovered DS has a dairy allergy. Have you ever tried Gripe Water? It's a ginger and fennel liquid that has stomach soothing properties. I used it with my first DS for colic and it helped. And keep telling yourself IT WILL NOT BE LIKE THIS FOREVER!!!

I wish I had advice for any of us. I feel like I have tried EVERYTHING with varying success. Teething tablets, Motrin, swaddling, not swaddling, white noise, yoga ball (huge success), Gripe Water, sleeping on me, sleeping in the crib, nightlight, dark room, etc...

I think my issue is DS wakes and can't go back to sleep alone. So he sits up and cries until I swoop in and either bounce (yoga ball) or nurse him back to sleep. I guess he's waking between sleep cycles? Why else would he wake every hour or two?
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:30 PM
 
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Your son sounds like my DD. She just turned a year and is up every two hours at night as well. At three months she was sleeping six hour stretches and I thought that I finally had a kid who would sleep well. All that changed within a few weeks when she started teething. I give her Hyland's Teething tablets and gave her Tylenol one night, but it didn't make a difference.

On a good night I get one or two three hour stretches, but it's rare. I half heartedly started trying to night wean, but I'm not sure if it will make a difference given all the teething. Poor baby only has two teeth so we're going to be dealing with this for a long time I'm afraid. At least she does usually go right back to sleep after nursing.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:27 PM
 
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Last night was a colossal, traumatizing failure and now I am swimming in guilt

I decided last night was the first of the next 4 to start nightweaning. I took parts of Jay Gordons method and was cutting out nursing from 11pm when I went to bed until 5/6am when DH gets home from working nights.
She went to bed at 830pm with a half dose of motrin because she is teething, woke at 915 to nurse back to sleep, and again at 11pm. She woke at midnight again and that was the one I decided to stop.
It was pure hell...she cried all the time we spent in the bed, anytime I laid down with her. As soon as I would get up and she was on my shoulder, she stopped, would fall asleep, the second I tried to lay her down se woke and cried and cried and cried. 10 mins into it I remembered someone post in here that you can't give in because then everything you just did affirms if they cry that long they will get what they want. So I spent the next hour and half refusing to give in, crying myself, rocking, walking bouncing, trying to lay down, shushing..she finally fell asleep from me shushing really loud next to her ear for 20 mins. But then she was tossing, turning, groaning, whining, crying and throwing herself all over the bed like she was incredibly uncomfortable...so I gave in...arg...she nursed for a few mins popped off and turned over, threw herself around a little and fell asleep. She didn't wake again until after DH got home and I nursed her every few hours again.

Now I am experiencing so much guilt from making her go through so much and just giving in, or letting her cry so hard and all she needed was a quick nurse because she was hurting...and all I can think of is her raised stress levels last night and how she probably can't figure out what she did wrong and why I wouldn't let her nurse...

I don't know what to do now, if I should continue trying to wean, try something different, or just wait.

I am so sorry DD...
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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I don't think your DD will remember and she will be just fine. Don't beat yourself up.

I don't know anything about night weaning so defer to others (& maybe post a new thread?) but perhaps you need to shelve it for awhile? You said she is sleeping a bit better, so if you're feeling better too, maybe you can handle the night nursing a bit longer? Not sure, but just wanted to say try not to worry about last night.

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Old 10-16-2009, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Leone - this was my night exactly! Except I *wasn't* trying to NW yet!! I was letting him nurse all he wanted and he STILL did exactly what your DD did. Even the at same time...he was up from midnight to 2:10 am. He kept rolling around my bed, fussing, crying etc. Up on my shoulder he’d fall asleep in a minute or two, but the second I tried to put him down, whether on my bed or in his crib, he’d cry. I felt terrible b/c I was losing my patience after the first hour or so.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you didn’t do any harm by trying to NW your DD. Gordon says they will be pretty ticked off the first couple of nights. Ticked, but not scared or hurt. You were there with her. She was not alone. Did you communicate to her that she could nurse later? I’m sorry, I don’t remember how old you said your DD is. But let’s back up a sec…does she normally nurse completely to sleep? If so then you “nurse her short” for a couple of nights. Don’t let her fall completely asleep latched, KWIM? Take it slower. Or scrap it and try again in a month. And don’t beat yourself up! It's going to get better, it has to!

I have intentions of beginning NW tonight, but I have a pinched nerve in my left shoulder today and I don't know if I can deal with the physical demand on my body tonight. I already told DH I was going to do it, and he's agreed to take DS tomorrow morning for a couple of hours so I can rest. I'm going to start a new thread about our NW adventure. How far I get, who knows!
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:26 AM
 
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My DS is almost 9 months and has never been a good sleeper. Just recently he has started sleeping for 2-3 hours in the evening which allows me time by myself. This is a huge accomplishment. Before this he would maybe sleep 30minutes and then he wouldn't go back to sleep so he'd just stay up until I went to bed. Through the rest of the night his chunks of sleep gradually get smaller as the morning approaches 3 hours, then 2, then every hour, until finally I give up and we get out of bed.

I don't usually get too angry at night. I've accepted that we will all sleep better if I just give in and nurse rather than try and fight it. (He's still too young to night wean - I may 'fight it' it a bit more when he's a year old). But the hardest part is hearing of other babies who sleep through the night. Which seems like every baby I know IRL. I get so angry and jealous. Which is awful, I know. Especially when they assume that our problems are due to cosleeping. Ugh...

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Old 10-16-2009, 02:14 PM
 
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I want to join!

My DS is almost 9 months and has never been a good sleeper. Just recently he has started sleeping for 2-3 hours in the evening which allows me time by myself. This is a huge accomplishment. Before this he would maybe sleep 30minutes and then he wouldn't go back to sleep so he'd just stay up until I went to bed. Through the rest of the night his chunks of sleep gradually get smaller as the morning approaches 3 hours, then 2, then every hour, until finally I give up and we get out of bed.

I don't usually get too angry at night. I've accepted that we will all sleep better if I just give in and nurse rather than try and fight it. (He's still too young to night wean - I may 'fight it' it a bit more when he's a year old). But the hardest part is hearing of other babies who sleep through the night. Which seems like every baby I know IRL. I get so angry and jealous. Which is awful, I know. Especially when they assume that our problems are due to cosleeping. Ugh...
Welcome! You sound just like me - except I rarely get the 2-3 hours up front anymore. We also get the decreasing amounts of sleep as the night goes on - I wonder what that is about.

And, oh my god, the jealousy thing of other babies and parents who can actually go out for the night and have a sitter. I just don't talk about sleep with them anymore and truly, I don't even socialize with many of those friends anymore. They don't get it and just offer insulting advice or give me pity I don't want. Sigh.

That's why this thread is so great! We know we're not alone and for us, these sleep patterns are normal and we'll all get through it. (Although as I just took an hour to get DS down for what is sure to be a 45 minute nap, I feel at my wits end!).

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Old 10-16-2009, 07:07 PM
 
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On a good night I get one or two three hour stretches, but it's rare. I half heartedly started trying to night wean, but I'm not sure if it will make a difference given all the teething. Poor baby only has two teeth so we're going to be dealing with this for a long time I'm afraid. At least she does usually go right back to sleep after nursing.
Yeah.. my son at 7.5 mos seems to young to nightwean entirely.. but I don't know.. he gets so angry/upset/sad that I can't not give him what he wants if I know that nursing will fix it (it won't always, he is still uncomfortable)

He also has only 2 teeth so out of 20 freaking teeth I am not optiminstic. Eeesh.


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Old 10-16-2009, 09:43 PM
 
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Leone- Hang in there- it is a process, one step forwards and two steps back it seems, but you just have to keep trying and do what you can tolerably do, and don't feel like a failure if you have to step back for a few days or even weeks and try again some other time. Hang in there!!

Well as for our night last night-- where to begin.. I took a prescribed benzodiazepine medication (valium) and i know it goes through breastmilk and causes sedation in babies at times (is that supposed to be bad?? i didn't think so.. his doc and my midwife both prescribed/ok'ed it for occasional use anyways, so if if that was a side benefit i am not complaining ) and whatever happened we actually both got some sleep. i cannot decide if that is good or bad. but i got around 5 1/2 hours of sleep which hallelujah i am happy with, at least as happy as i can be, i will take what i can get. i am sure you can all relate. after the night before i needed to not have another night from he!!

and our day-- unfortunately this morning a family friend came from 10-11:45 before she had to go to work p/t, to help out, and i wanted to take an hour nap but DS was being loud playing and the cats were scratching my bedroom door and i couldn't get comfortable so ended up reading more from NCSS and socializing with this long time family friend (I used to babysit her kids years ago!) which was nice although i am mad i did not get to nap).

Then, I had promised a friend who is very very pregnant, due shortly, and has a toddler too and a bunch of school stuff too, just a very full plate but also a very supportive husband, so I went to Whole Foods and brought her lunch and groceries and we caught up a bit (see, I am the sleep deprived insane one who needs help and I still cannot let go of my instinct to feel like I am supposed to be the one helping other people lol, but it was good, like I said last night was not awful I guess and I was happy to see her and help out and make sure she had good food, and I recall a now close friend (who I met on here! Yay MDC!) brought me groceries when I first brought B home from nicu, so I guess I paid it forward, since I had the afternoon free and a WF gift card to spend, though I probably should have used it for my own groceries, so it goes, it feels good to do what you can and i felt alright during the day today after a somewhat decent amt of sleep last night)

Then I was going to have a friend with a daughter close in age come over to trade off watching the babes so we could each have an hour or two to sleep/study and she flaked on me (hope she is ok, still have not been able to reach her, but i think she just flaked which sucked because i really needed to sleep and/or study and would liked for my son to have playtime w/ another kiddo and tire him out) and then my mom came over just as ds fell asleep nursing in my arms, so I put him down, and asked my mom to stay ten minutes following me setting him on the bed, because I had a feeling he wouldn't stay asleep, he rarely does, sucks sucks sucks, and she said no! and was all cranky and just left, and said call me if he wakes and i will come back... so of course he wakes 30 seconds after she pulls out of the lot, and I was not about to call her and make her drive back here again and be pissed at me (and him) and waste gas etc. so I didn't want to deal with that.. and so I tried nursing him down but he was awake then, so now we are up..

I really don't know, I am starting to feel all crying/frustrated/tired again and just want to nap, one or both of us, and I don't want to call my mom back for the third time (she tries stopping by once before since she was driving by and she missed us by like 5 minutes) and then the second time was when he fell asleep and I attempted to transfer him to the bed, I was going to join him as soon as I had a snack and of course the little (censored) aka loving sweet precious baby decided to wake and not go back to sleep. So. It is 6:30 and we are up. He never naps. Never. Except in sling/arms and I am trying to BREAK that habit. but I don't know if i should. Once you get to that breaking point/edge, it is so easy to get back to it, the littlest thing or one rough night or lack of nap or stressful situation and it is back to the insanity.

Is it true that the less sleep they get, the worse they sleep, and the less the continue to get, like slef-perpetuating cycle?? that if they don't get the sleep they need (like she says in NCSS, it can vary slightly but on average it is pretty close across the board) Because it says in the book that for 6 mos. they need 3-4 hours in naps and 12-13 hours at night and at 9 months they need 2 1/2-4 hours in naps and 11 1/2-12 1/2 at night or something like that (my son is right in the middle, 7.5 mos) and he has been getting like 5-8 hours at night average, and a lot of his sleep I am not sleeping which is where a big part of the issue lies too because I have to bounce/nurse/etc. to get him to sleep and then i dread trying to put him down and start at square one.. and not really napping either except brief in arms naps or in the car naps for anywhere from a few minutes to an hour, he has never been a napper though really as much, either he would take one really long nap (2-3 hours) or not nap at all except dozing in arms/in sling.. but this is insanity.

but yeah he gets nowhere near that amount listed in NCSS (and of course i get even less), and he does seem tired but just wakes right the frick up. See this is awful I am starting to feel awful again and last night was supposed to be a "good" night, I guess i should be grateful for that compared to what it could be.

I do not want to introduce any new allergens and we are vegan so do not want to try the teething tablets, but are there any other teething remedies i could/should try that might help and then i could at least see if that made a difference or rule that out? i think that is a part of it at least, as some of you are saying, i just don't know why it affects him so much at sleep/night and not when he is playing or whatnot, maybe because there is no other stimuli to distract him? I do think it could play a big part in it.

i do think a lot of it is also gut too- his rash has cleared (chin/face rash/eczema)and the yeast (bottom/scrotum) is almost gone, since cutting out solids (although honestly it is not like we were doing solids daily, we were doing mostly baby-led weaning, whole fruits and veggies, and he didn't seem to even eat much, like maybe a teaspoon or two of whatever, mostly peaches and yams, a little bit of banana and avocado and whole wheat bread crumb to taste but really just played with it, and watermelon, but just played with that and licked it.. idk. But also we switched to sposies for a couple days now until I can disinfect his cloth diaper stash from yeast, and have been using the Diaper Rash and Thrush cream from mother love like i said so i don't know if just that is clearing it or if it is the solids or something in my milk and the other issues are just now making the issue known?? so confused, keep second guessing and i don't know how i will ever know what is right/true or how to fix it.

I may have to look into more allergy info i guess.. Because his EC has suffered, he basically never pooped his diapers before and the other night he was up from 3-5 am, pooped 3 diapers and pottied/pooped in his potty a bit too and seemed super uncomfortable, and it is seeming like there are green stringy things in there on occasion but i cannot figure out a pattern, and the smell is becoming really strong and offensive where it was mild before, and thicker consistency, and i had a friend look at a poop (haha i know, she is great for putting up with such things) and she said it was not normal in her experience and the color seemed greenish tinged/off and there was some mucous) but being my 1st kid i had nothing to compare too except knowing it was different than his prior poops.. but then he also went thru a phase where he had really really foamy airy poops which cannot be good either but not for some time, i just don't know, no rhyme or reason, i just want him not to be in pain and to SLEEP for goddess sake).. but yeah like i said too some of this is just exacerbated but not new entirely, yeast for example, he had his 1st yeast infection within his first few weeks, and i no longer use their chemically prescriptions as the mother love salve works much better and seems much healthier for his sensitive regions without all the chems, but i need to figure out doth what do do in the long term and also what is causing this in the short term, the past say 3 weeks, although he has never been a great sleeper, he at least had nights where he would go reasonably long stretches or without needing constant motion/constant/nursing.. i do think the contant nursing is not hunger or milk supply but relieving the pressure from teething so i think i do need to address that..

anyway, just brainstorming out loud, blabbing and trying to get these scattered thoughts in writing, maybe just for me to make some coherent sense of them or have a record of them before i forget (NCSS is all about keeping diaries of babies sleep patterns from what i have ascertained thus far) if others have input or can benefit from some of these ideas being thrown around then that is cool too..

i want to go to sleep (don;t we all!!) hang in there mamas and keep us posted, here's wishing all the mamas with sleep issues, and the babes too, a comfortable and restful night, making some sort of progress...

i will also keep you all posted on NCSS, as i read it and maybe implement the strategies.. but if this is not simple habits or sleep problems and there are physical pains underlying it which i think is at least part of it i have to start there. i have thought of calling his doctor but am ambivalent--

have any of you talked to docs about sleep issues or other issues? at least the health issues i would bring up, and the impact on sleep lately? he is a family practice doc, i really do like and trust him, but unsure where that could lead and don't need one more piece of chaos in this puzzle...


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Old 10-16-2009, 10:10 PM
 
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Just a couple of quick answers - yes, I do believe in the baby needs sleep to be able to sleep rule. Which sucks for all of us! Do you think your baby only gets a maximum of 8 hours sleep a night? I bet he gets more than that.

Also, I wanted to say it's definitely worth ruling out medical causes. Look on the allergy forum for elimination diets. They're hard to do. In the end, I stuck just to the least allergenic foods - you can find a list on Dr Sears website. It didn't help sleep but my DS is allergic to dairy. It may help you so worth a go! It is tough though.

Kudos to you mama, I have no idea how you manage to study at all.

PS My Pedi is useless with the sleep thing - she told me to keep the room dark and quiet - duh!

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Old 10-16-2009, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My DS only napped in the carrier or in arms until 10 months or so. Don't fight it if that what works. Now at almost 12 months he will nap in the crib or on the sofa.

I agree with Louisep about allergies. Worth looking into.

There are other teething products that you could try. Hylands makes a gel that is not lactose based. I'm going to try Boirons Camilia liquid.

Hang in their mama. This shall pass!
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:53 PM
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Mama_Gaia, look into the food allergies, but I know blips in EC and rashes are both common symptoms of teething.

We had the most awesome night last night (sarcasm). DD wouldn't go down alone (this is her MO these days, about 2 mo now of not getting one. single. second without SOMEONE needing me) and she didn't get asleep "enough" for me to move to the bed and stop rocking and craning my neck at the computer until about 11:30. She woke up 4-5 times before 2:30 when she was up for good until 4 fing AM. She went back to sleep until 7:30, when DS, who had gone to bed at 10:30 the night before, came and jumped on us in our bed.

Luckily for me, however, my insomnia has faded since we're getting the ball rolling on some of DS's issues that I have been worrying myself sick over. Today was an all around better day and I don't feel as tired, even though I should. Weird, huh?

Right now we're at it again though. DD went down at 6:45, DS at 7, DD woke up just as I left the room putting DS down, then we rocked in the chair long enough for her to go to sleep, just in time for DS to wake up to pee. Now she is up for good. Probably another 9:30-10:00 bedtime for her, hoping that DS doesn't wake up anymore.

It is DH's "night off", of which I am supposed to get 2 to his 1 since the kids have been so needy lately. What usually ends up happening is that both kids decide that they will be little terrors when I have planned my time off and the whole thing gets rescheduled so that I can miss it again next week. I need a break.

Leone, sorry to hear about the NW failure. I'm pretty sure your DD is fine. We NW DS at 19 mo, but it absolutely would never have worked if I hadn't gotten him used to the idea that he could actually achieve sleep without nursing. That meant learning to go to sleep initially without nursing. We rocked and sang songs and bounced, etc., and he cried some, but it wasn't so horrible. After we did that for, I think, 3 weeks, I started working on cutting out the nighttime nursing. It's all a little blurry to me because I was pregnant at the time and feeling absolutely desperate because my nipples were on fire when he nursed.

*Sigh*, looks like DD might be ready for bed sooner.
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