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inconditus 09-11-2013 06:09 AM

DH is increasingly becoming a fan of the CIO method. Sometimes when I leave him to watch DD while I'm showering/making dinner etc. I hear her screaming and find her in the pack n play while he is on his tablet playing a game. I then pick her up and hand her back to him to continue what i was doing or just grumble and walk with her leaving whatever unfinished. 


Bedtime isn't his thing, since he always goes to sleep hours after us but he keeps suggesting I put her down and let her fall asleep. We bedshare so he says it's completely different than traditional CIO. I do see the logic of this that there is a difference between throwing her in a separate room and letting her cry herself to sleep vs. both of us laying down and if she gets fussy/wants to play stay laying down in bed even if she cries until she's asleep. 


I considered it last night when it was 11pm and she just refused to sleep. The only thing she wanted was to be walked around the house. I was getting very frustrated since we normally go to bed around 9pm.  Eventually she fell asleep in bed with me after the 6th time going through our bedtime ritual: put on music, change diaper, turn of light, lay down, tuck in & snuggle up offering boob. 


edit: she's 2 months old

mamazee 09-11-2013 08:55 AM

I don't think it's crying it out to lie down next to a crying baby in bed. They're snuggled up and being loved, not being left to cry alone. I had a colicky baby and spent many nights and many hours lying next to a crying baby. There wasn't any way to stop her crying. And some babies seem to need to cry a bit before they'll fall asleep. Crying next to a loving parent isn't the same as being alone.

Screaming in the pack-and-play is something that would bother me, but I would feel fine having a crying baby lie next to me until she fell asleep. Babies cry and I don't think crying is in and of itself a problem. Being alone during it is, especially since they don't have a sense of object permanence.

Hopefully some other parents will chime in with their thoughts.

mamaofthree 09-11-2013 02:14 PM

yeah, she is 2 months old. that is waaaay to young to be crying herself to sleep. if she likes to be rocked or walked... what is the reason it can not be done? and crying while your parent is next to you, BUT not giving you want you need is still cio. 

being a parent is hard arse work and it doesn't end at 9 pm, it is a 24/7 job. i would have a sit down with DH and explain that leaving a 2 month old to cry while he plays video games is unacceptable, seriously. her needs come before his wants to check out and play games. get a sling and he can wear her while he walks around and plays video games if he can't stop playing them to care for his child, and take turns at night. if she wants to nurse you take the shift, if she just wants to walk then he does. 

mamazee 09-11-2013 03:14 PM

Babies with colic cry no matter what. And 2 months is a common time for babies to have colic. Holding a baby or snuggling with a baby who is crying isn't CIO. CIO means trying to train a child to sleep alone by leaving them alone to sleep despite their cries. It doesn't mean snuggling up with a crying baby. If you're not feeding a hungry baby or if there is a solution for the crying, then I'd agree that it's CIO, but if the baby is crying and just cries despite a dry diaper, doesn't want to nurse, you've tried more/less warmth, the baby is physically healthy, has healthy poops, etc., then the baby might just be a baby who cries a lot.

However leaving a crying baby alone in a pack and play while you play video games is leaving them alone to cry and is CIO.

sageowl 09-13-2013 11:11 PM

Two months is a tough stage...I remember having to walk my kids down to sleep at that in going outside and walking for at least half an hour in the dark. Totally worked, plus it helped me get back in shape faster. Got a bit easier a few months later when that evening crying thing goes away on its own.

sillysapling 09-16-2013 01:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)

I would have snapped at the pack n play/video games thing. NOT acceptable. Doing work? Ok, not good, but if you've got a colicky baby and have tried EVERYTHING, sometimes you just have to get things done. Video games? NOT a thing you "just have to get done" while 2 month old baby cries!


I often go to bed early, and we tend to bedshare, but when I went to bed early- my partner would take care of the baby because, hello, trying to sleep doesn't mesh with taking care of a baby. If LO wasn't already down somewhere else, I'd try taking him to bed- but with the understanding that I'd call for my partner if the baby was refusing to sleep/needed something/etc.


Your husband seems to be justifying lazy parenting with "CIO".

ananas 09-16-2013 03:15 PM

I think you might be mistaking "CIO" with "being lazy and not wanting to do anything"...I would have got mad at your partner, not only because the baby was laying there screaming, but because it seems like he didn't want to watch her so instead he just...didn't?


Also, if she is colicky, it's not CIO to have her in bed next to you while she cries. But if she likes to walk around have you tried "wearing" her down? Moby wraps are great for this, you could bundle her up nice and tight against you and do your evening routine with her against you and she will most likely fall asleep.

michelleepotter 09-17-2013 10:07 AM

I don't think either of those things is CIO. Leaving the baby to scream in the playpen while he plays video games is not the same as trying to teach her to go to sleep independently by letting her fuss herself to sleep; it's just ignoring her. Even someone who believes in and advocates CIO would see that as lazy and selfish.

Snuggling a baby in bed while she cries is not CIO either. If you've met / checked all of her needs, and can't find any reason she's crying except needing to be comforted, and you are comforting her, then you are doing all you can.
after the 6th time going through our bedtime ritual: put on music, change diaper, turn of light, lay down, tuck in & snuggle up offering boob.

Personally, I don't see how this is accomplishing anything at all. If her diaper is dry, changing it again is doing nothing but wasting a diaper. If she's not hungry, there's no reason to keep offering the breast. (Unless maybe you think she was just too hysterical to eat, and now she's calmed down enough to try.) There's no reason to turn the music off just to put it back on, turn on the light just to turn it back off, or get out of bed just so you can get back in. There's comfort in ritual, but doing the ritual over and over for two hours isn't going to signify "bedtime" if doing it the first time didn't.

A better solution would be to add in something like PP have suggested, like putting her in a wrap and taking her for a walk first. Or a warm bath with lavender. Or just snuggling her in bed until she calms down. Sometimes babies just cry. If you have met their needs, and you are sure there isn't something wrong (like fever, constipation, skin caught in a zipper, etc.), it is ok to just hold them and offer comfort until they calm down.

Nightwish 09-18-2013 01:20 AM

I don't think he is snuggling with the baby, from op's post, he just lays her down and ignores her, which, for a 2 month old, incapable to move, can be the same as cio. I can imagine my babies at that age if I just put them down in my bed and then just ignore them, or had no physical contact with them, they would have freaked out.

michelleepotter 09-18-2013 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post

I don't think he is snuggling with the baby, from op's post, he just lays her down and ignores her, which, for a 2 month old, incapable to move, can be the same as cio. I can imagine my babies at that age if I just put them down in my bed and then just ignore them, or had no physical contact with them, they would have freaked out.

Maybe I read it wrong. It was my impression that he isn't putting the baby to bed at all, but making suggestions for how Mom should do it.

motherhendoula 09-18-2013 05:21 AM

two months old is WAY TOO YOUNG to expect a baby to soothe herself to sleep - in my opinion its also way too young to have a set schedule with her yet!  It sounds like your husband is quite immature - a crying newborn ....yes she is a newborn!  - needs comforting.  You people are all she knows of this world - your touch, your smell, your milk - thats it - thats all she wants.  Give it to her -   Playing a video game while baby cries is ridiculous.   Newborns want to be held all the time - that will change - and you will miss these days!  

inconditus 09-18-2013 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by michelleepotter View Post

Maybe I read it wrong. It was my impression that he isn't putting the baby to bed at all, but making suggestions for how Mom should do it.


Yes that's it. 

Thanks for the responses. I had a talk with H about how he doesn't like to watch her and I don't like it but at least we are on the same page. Yesterday I didn't ask him for help at all and he felt I was "being catty" and "not letting him hold her." I just can't win :irked
I don't expect her to be on a schedule, per say, but I would ASSume that if she's hasn't napped in several hours and has been yawning constantly and cranky it wouldn't take from 7pm-2am to get her down to bed. I feel like I'm doing something wrong but it helps a lot to know that it's just her age and not me. I think I need to stop listening to people's suggestions about how it's crucial to have her on a routine and a schedule for her development or whatever. I've started taking a nap with her in the middle of the day and that's helped my sanity a lot. 

sillysapling 09-18-2013 11:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
An overtired baby can be impossible to get down. They're too busy crying about how tired they are to sleep! I keep hearing that at some point you can overstimulate them to the point that they just conk out, but I've never been able to. LO constantly fights sleep, always has. We'll spend hours encouraging him to get down, pointing out every yawn and rubbly eye and saying "You're tired, you need to sleep". I don't have any real suggestions. Every time we have a routine that works and he gets on a schedule, a few weeks later it stops working. Just keep trying.

I've stopped listening to people about routines and schedules. My mom got me and the infant she fostered to sleep through the night at 2 months and keeps pushing about my baby being on a schedule and sleeping through the night. Almost 5 months and he still has no interest in doing so. Everyone in the house is happier if we can accept that this baby is going at his own rate. I know she means well, my life would be SO much easier if I could get at least 5 uninterrupted hours every night (8 hours would be paradise!), it's just not in the cards.

Naps are very, very good. I'm sorry your husband isn't more helpful with the baby. Good luck!

sahmmie 09-20-2013 09:21 PM

She may be overtired when you start the bedtime routine (not that two month old babies need a scheduled bedtime). It may work to start being very quiet, soothing, etc with her an hour or more before you think she's tired because a baby who is not overtired is easier to soothe and falls asleep more easily as well. For instance, I remember with my babies that anytime after 6 pm I'd feed them in a darkened room, keep the tv off or very low, avoid stimulating them too much, etc.


It's awful that your H doesn't help you with the baby. I was married to a man like that and I reared three children completely alone despite being married. I hope it's not quite that bad for you.

kneadymama 09-20-2013 09:44 PM

Men don't have (conceive, grow, birth, nurse) children for a reason. There, I said it. 

I hope this gives you some clarity as to the different roles you will play as parents. Unless you are one of the lucky ones that got a really rare bird. 

Just my two cents and the more I began to see things this way, the easier my marriage became.


Oh, and I 100% agree about her being overtired. She is still figuring out how the heck to fall asleep and needs you, or someone else, to rock her ( or do whatever it is that you think she naturally falls asleep to). If you have had a enough, putting her in a safe place until regrouped is not CIO. CIO is a training method.

cynthiamoon 10-11-2013 07:03 AM

FWIW-- I think walking and rocking to sleep are the most efficient wys we get our baby to sleep. I sometimes hate it when it's going on 15mins of bouncing around and she is still waking up when I put her down, but that's when I call my husband and say "your turn" and I lay down until ether she falls asleep for him or he gets tired and it's my turn again. Thankfully those marathon sessions are rare!

sageowl 10-11-2013 10:34 AM

Yeah, 2 mos is waaaay too early for a that age you need to just roll with it and do what you can to encourage relaxation.

MaggieLC 10-13-2013 06:22 PM

I agree to simply ignore ALL "advice" about "schedules, routines, planned bedtimes, etc." because nobody has told your baby about these things so she doesn't know, and even if she did, she isn't capable of understanding "It's dark, we're not going to continue Day Time Parenting because it's past our bedtime." THROW your old "bed time" out the window, Baby's the Boss now. :nod


Your DH sounds like he really needs to grow up a lot. Playing video games while the baby cries is not acceptable, nor is it a mature thing to do. Either have a really strong talk with him, have him read a few good infant care books (like, basically, anything by Drs. Sears) and if he continues to play the stupid games and act like a child, treat him like a child and "ground" him from the darn games. This should NOT be necessary with an adult, but he isn't acting like an adult. He's a parent, for heaven's sake! Did he think it was going to be easy? Did he pick up a book or watch a darn thing about Attachment and Baby Care while you were pregnant.


As for the whole "what is CIO" thing. I'm hearing a LOT of trying too hard, overwrought perambulations about what "is" CIO what "isn't" CIO etc. There is NO need for all this intellectualizing stuff. if the baby is crying and the parents haven't done everything possible to calm the baby down  and have stopped comforting the baby, then the baby.... is..... Parents don't have to have a plan or a "schedule" to practice CIO, all it takes is to not take care of the baby and do everything possible to calm the baby (including doing things BEFORE the crying starts to head off the worst of the crying)   and let the baby know you are there to be practicing CIO.


I've had colicky kids, I do doula care and LC visits with Colicky Babies regularly,  taking care of Fussy Babies is a full time job, round the clock, night and day, always looking for hunger, loneliness, discomfort cues before the baby gets overstimulated, and doing everything you can to cut the crying off at the pass. Yes, the baby may still cry but if the baby know YOU are there and still doing things to comfort her that should work.


Letting a baby cry while someone plays video games: CIO? Of course. Letting a baby scream in your bed because "it's our bedtime" and doing nothing to continue to comfort the baby, CIO? Well, if you've given up on strategies or are just letting her cry in your bed because "it's out bedtime." Yep. Is the baby Then, yes. Some babies have to work off some over stimulation, but that takes the form of fussing and a lot of moving interspersed with some crying, and usually cluster feeding, and your walking the floors and keeping up movement most of the time. But that still requires a mom's full time presence and attention.  IMO, a baby who is full scale screaming should never be put down, not even in mom and dad's bed. I mean, nobody is going to sleep in this scenario, and the baby certainly isn't "learning" anything, so why bother?


All our children were "Fussy" with probably at least two of them having actual "colic." I learned to keep the house low key and quiet, day AND night reducing stimulation constantly.  I bought black out shades for the bedrooms, I learned we had to give up "our bedtime" (I think I realized that before our first baby was even born) we gave up even trying to go out on some days (especially after an especially challenging night.) This is temporary. Usually by 16 weeks or earlier, this will all be a memory. Your baby will still need you night and day, but the period of 2 to 12 weeks is usually the most intense and frustrating at least until you have a three year old.... then until you have teens..... so it never really ends.


I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of parents just agree there aren't any shortcuts.... and the baby doesn't understand the concept of a "bedtime" and at least until this really overstimulated stage is over, the "rituals" are more for you than for her.  The naps in the afternoon will SAVE YOU, I guarantee it. Adjust your "bedtime" for when the baby finally goes down to sleep. She may only sleep an hour or two, but that's what babies this age do. But, your partner needs to grow up a lot. I don't know what you can do about that. His whining that you "won't let him hold the baby" when his past behavior dictates that he's just going to put her down as soon as she makes some noise and play a darn video game tells us a lot about his lack of completely understanding his need for mature behavior. I don't do this to my husband (I don't have to) but if my DH acted like this I'd either 1) not leave the baby with him at all. or 2) take the video games with YOU when you go out. If he's insisting on acting like a child, he can be treated like one. And you may let him know that when women have to treat their men like children their sex drives die because people aren't sexually attracted to their own children. (This is actually proven by research, Word to all the video gaming dads out there! :irked )


I KNOW it's frustrating. You'll get through it and not be worse for wear if absolutely NO CIO is being used at all so you won't need to question it.  It really doesn't make parenting "easier." Why even use a "strategy" that you have to ask, "Is this CIO?" If you're know the answer. It's probably yes. You don't need to do anything that you would even question as CIO to parent well.


You'll get through this. You'll feel better about it in the end if you give your baby everything she needs, when she needs it, realizing that needs and wants are the same thing at this age.


Good luck and Blessings. This stage will soon be over. Do what she needs and you'll never question yourself now or later. :Hug 

heather626 02-17-2014 11:39 AM

As a breastfeeding mom, at 2 months I laid down to nap with baby daily.  There's no way to know if you're going to get 8 hours at night or 3 hours at night.  I think your husband's going through that man-insecurity of not being sure how to please baby.  Untill my husband could sucessfully put the baby to sleep, I got alot of "She just wants you".  Once he got in there & found his own way to make/keep her happy, he was proud of his skills & eager to try.

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