baby center babies vs some of our babies? - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-03-2004, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I generally read only this mothering.com forum. Occasionally, I do check-out the babycenter.com threads but find, for the most part, I don't seem to occupy the same "head space" as many of the baby center.com participants.

I don't know if I'm breaking any forum rules here .... I hope not. ... I 'm not trying to start any flaming or arguments. I am just so curious. Why do I read all sorts of literature from La Leche, articles and posts on this site, kelly.com etc. - all saying it's normal and okay to have your baby and toddler wake through out the night. YET, when I read the "expert" medical doctors on babycenter.com or the messages on the bulletin boards or even talk with most of my friends who are moms or my medical doctor or my mother-in-law, for goodness sake - THEY ALL seem think a baby should be sleeping 8 hours straight, the sooner the better. And, why do so many people on babycenter.com seem to have children who sleep in such long stretches. I just don't understand why I have a one year old son who rarely sleeps longer than 2 hours and often less than 1 hour. La Leche says this is normal. Yet, my friend's kids both slept at 6 weeks of age for 10 hours straight! This girl friend would not know how to cope with my son!

Anyway, I hope I'm making sense. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I just don't understand how there is such a dramatic difference in opinion and sleeping patterns. Maybe this is a stupid question. Just wondering what I can say to my MIL next time she tells me my son should be sleeping for 12 hours straight!
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Old 06-03-2004, 11:42 PM
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i think a lot of the conventional sleep beliefs are based on the old methods that promoted getting babies independant asap for the convenience of the parents. you know, those theories that if you hold the baby too much or (GASP) sleep with baby, they will never learn to be independant and will depend on you forever.

while i believe a lot of what they have about total sleep needs, i put little stock in their theories about now much sleep a baby should get before waking.

i have a 6 month old and this is my theory... no one sleeps "thru the night". we all wake at intervals throughout the night, resettle ourselves and go back to sleep. most of the time we don't even realize we do this b/c we've learned to do it without waking fully. babies aren't born with this skill and when they wake they are unable to get back to sleep without some kind of aid (nursing, rocking, etc). eventually, they all learn, but like any developmental milestone (like rolling, sitting, crawling, walking, etc) they reach it at different times.

the "sleep training" parents do, like CIO, is an attempt to accelerate it.

jmo, of course, my dd is only 6 mo, so what do i know, except that i haven't had a full night's rest since the second trimester! LOL
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Old 06-03-2004, 11:53 PM
 
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People always ask me if my DD (6 months) is sleeping thru the night. I agree with the PP, I don't think most babies truly sleep thru the night, the real question is, do they go thru the night without "disturbing" their parents!! So, do we as AP mothers respond to our children in a loving way, and help them get resettled, versus others who may wait and see if the baby will eventually cry or fuss, and resettle himself without bugging the parents? I used to get really hung up on this issue, and wondered why my daughter did not sleep thru the night. She actually did sleep all the way thru from 8 wks to 12 wks, but that quit when I went back to work! Now she SOMETIMES sleeps thru, but now she's teething, so that' s another issue. It doesn't help when her Pedi is constantly askimg her father and I about her sleeping habits, and basically inferring that we are creating a monster my letting her nurse on demand at night, and sleep in our bed. We were told we would be still sleeping with a 3 year old if we didn't get her out of our bed now! My DH (bless his heart!), called me at work hours after the appt and said "so what if she's still with us when she's 3!! (hurray hubby!). So, I just don't buy into the sleep myth any more. Our babies need us as much at night as during the day, and by golly, that's all there is to it!

Wife to Hank , Mommy to Gabriella 6.5 yrs Anthony 28 monthsand 3 angels wait for me in Heaven Praying to be a Proverbs 31 woman!!
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Old 06-04-2004, 11:53 AM
 
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It's very simple.

There is a very sad LACK of good solid studies on cosleeping that don't START OUT with the premise that the longer baby sleeps without waking, the better.

These "scientists" have never questioned that basic assumption. What if it ISN'T normal for a baby to sleep through the night? Under what conditions has "normal" sleep been measured? (answer: babies who sleep isolated in cribs and often separate rooms, most of whom were formula fed, and most of who were sleep trained - CIO - from the get-go).

James McKenna is one of the few to document night time behaviour in infants who have routinely coslept since birth and are exclusively breastfed. This has been the normal standard for thousands and thousands of years. Therefore THIS represents the TRUE norm for infant sleep.

The fact that our society is woefully unequipped to deal with that, doesn't make it any less normal, or even less desirable.

The effects of nightwaking vs sleeping through the night are almost universally determined in light of how they affect the PARENTS. There are hardly any studies that look at what the effects are on the baby. They measure stress, exhaustion, and sleep deprivation on the parents, then blame excesses on the baby instead of looking to the parents' own environment (does the mother have any support? is the father away long hours? is there extended family around? support? etc).

I absolutely believe that many kids can be trained to sleep through the night by using CIO. But I don't believe it is at all in their best interests.

Besides, it is estimated by most "sleep experts" (especially the real sleep training CIO ones) that up to 30% of American babies have "sleep disorders" or "sleep issues". Well, we all know that intentional cosleepers do NOT make up 30% of the population (estimates are around 7 to 8%) so obviously crib-sleeping, sleep trained, babies are just as prone to "sleep issues" as cosleeping kids, but people so readily dismiss that.

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Old 06-04-2004, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Piglet68
It's very simple.



The effects of nightwaking vs sleeping through the night are almost universally determined in light of how they affect the PARENTS. There are hardly any studies that look at what the effects are on the baby. They measure stress, exhaustion, and sleep deprivation on the parents, then blame excesses on the baby instead of looking to the parents' own environment (does the mother have any support? is the father away long hours? is there extended family around? support? etc).

I absolutely believe that many kids can be trained to sleep through the night by using CIO. But I don't believe it is at all in their best interests.

.
ITA with Piglet! Especially the above.

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Old 06-04-2004, 01:34 PM
 
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It's strange because people always ask me if my baby sleeps through the night, I say yes, because he does. But we co-sleep, I wake a couple times (everytime) when he moves, he does nurse -sometimes- at night, I just don't think of this as a problem. I am happy, I don't feel sleep deprived. So this is my definition of "sleeping through the night". maybe it's not the same definition as a babycenter mom (I belong to their march'04 board and I think it's safe to say 90% of women ff their babies) they also let their babies CIO, (women ask "when" they can start when their babes ARE 6 WEEKS OLD...) how awful.

In my opinion, and I am going to risk sounding mean and discriminatory, but people at MDC are much more educated and informed. This is why we don't EXPECT our kids to sleep through the night when they are so young. Because they were never supposed to. Most moms at babycenter (the ones that I met, anyway) had their kids, loved being pg, loved the baby showers, the gifts, baby stuff, but when baby was born, they got hom and went "ok baby, time to be independent and stop bothering me. I feel like getting my life back"

If you post at babycenter (whoever does) please note I am NOT talking about you or EVERYONE at babycenter.com, just the people I met at the board I -used to- post in.
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Old 06-04-2004, 01:41 PM
 
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(Nothing really to add to above posters....ITA on all points)

To reply to the Mom/MIL comment: I've wondered if our parents think that babies should be sleeping longer stretches because they were told to put their kids on their tummies to sleep. Babies sleep much more soundly on their tummies.

(I read somewhere that the reason that tummy sleeping and SIDS are related is that some babies may sleep so soundly that they are unable to rouse themselves when something goes wrong. This can't explain all SIDS deaths, but maybe a chunck of them...)
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Old 06-04-2004, 01:49 PM
 
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When Deek was a baby his doctor told me that sleeping thru the night was defined as after a baby wakes the first time and settles back to sleep, usually at around 11pm or midnight until 5 or 6 in the morning. So basically he was asking if my son got one good 6 hour stretch of sleep in there.

I have only ever had one friend who's baby slept longer periods that that at one stretch and we always kind of raised our eyebrows at them. They would feed the baby 2 full bottles in a row and then put her to bed. Never even really checked on her or anything.
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Old 06-04-2004, 03:10 PM
 
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So is the concensus here that CIO is the reason for ALL those other babies I hear about who are such great sleepers? Because I've wondered about this, too. I have friends who don't CIO and acquaintances (don't really know well enough to ask) whose babies all are great sleepers. I'm talking kids who naturally fall asleep at 7pm and sleep for 12 hours. You couldn't define paradise any better than that for me right now!

Now, I know that mine who woke up repeatedly till 2 1/2 and my current up-every-two-hours 16mo are only doing what babies do. But is it all babies? I know I've asked myself why other parents got lucky with kids who sleep through the night while I'm still sleep deprived.
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Old 06-04-2004, 03:21 PM
 
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Babycenter is a huge forum so I think it depends on the board you visit. There are many great Moms who frequently post and share in that community as well I regularly post on the CIO debate board so yes I know exactly what you are referring to. All of their sleep experts advocate CIO so what does that tell you, they also offer some twisted advice about vomitting and head banging/rocking. If you enjoy a good debate regarding the risk in CIO than please check it out.
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Old 06-04-2004, 03:34 PM
 
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just a question... when you say your babes wake a lot at night. what do they do?
do they want to play? nurse? be rocked/walked to sleep?

My baby sleeps most of the time for a full 8 hour stretch. we cosleep so he maybe awakens a couple times but I don't. I am a light sleeper, though, I would think I'd wake if he did. Sometimes he wants to nurse at night. He doesn't cry or anything, he just starts moving, I assume he wants to eat and nurse him.
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Old 06-04-2004, 03:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
In my opinion, and I am going to risk sounding mean and discriminatory, but people at MDC are much more educated and informed. This is why we don't EXPECT our kids to sleep through the night when they are so young. Because they were never supposed to. Most moms at babycenter (the ones that I met, anyway) had their kids, loved being pg, loved the baby showers, the gifts, baby stuff, but when baby was born, they got hom and went "ok baby, time to be independent and stop bothering me. I feel like getting my life back"

If you post at babycenter (whoever does) please note I am NOT talking about you or EVERYONE at babycenter.com, just the people I met at the board I -used to- post in.

Yes, I agree. I post at BC and I have found this to be the case on many of the boards, but as Quillian said - it depends upon the board!


Hi Quillain! Do you 'regonize' me? I host at BC!


Oh, I wanted to add that my new baby does sleep for a good long strech at night, but his older bro didn't until he was much older. All babies are different!

Sarah : , mama to Lucas (8) , Ryan (5) : , Andrew (1yr) , and someone new : due early Dec.
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Old 06-04-2004, 05:02 PM
 
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My baby rarely ever "woke up" at night. She would stir, root for the breast, take it and nurse, then pop off when she fell asleep. I was only partly awake for these feedings, and could never remeber exactly how many times I fed her, come morning, lol. I kept meaning to write it down, just for curiosity's sake, but at the time I was not feeling like disturbing myself.

I think loving-my-babies also makes a good point. It depends on how you define "sleep problems". If your baby is in a crib down the hall and wakes five times a night, then you will have a problem. But if your baby is right beside you and just stirs until they get a boob, and you barely wake up...well, no problem!

It also depends on your expectations (b/c "sleep problems" are defined differently in different cultures) and also what sort of life you lead. If you are a SAHM with a good support network of family and friends you might have it easier than a mom who starts work at 7 am, works a 10 hour day, then comes home and tends to house and baby...both of you may have kids who wake frequently, but the one with support and a flexible schedule has a better chance of finding extra sleep/nap time than the other.

Finally, I wanted to say that I liked the comment about how excited everyone is when they are pregnant, decorating the nursery, and picking out crib fabrics...but after the babymoon is over, they want baby to disturb their lives as minimally as possible. Baby needs to be held all the time? Well, who has time for that? I've got step dance class and a casserole recipe to make, blah blah blah...so let baby cry in his bouncy seat until he gets used to it. Etc, Etc....One mama on my old board weaned to formula after 6 months of BFing b/c she "wanted her body back" (no nursing problems, no sleeping problems). Good lord, is a year or so too much to ask for your children?

I will just never understand such women. Not saying they are evil...I just don't understand them at all.

PS - please don't lets launch an invasion at babycenter. after recently being invaded by another horde that wished to "show us the error of our ways", it would NOT be cool to start that sort of thing over again. thanks.

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Old 06-04-2004, 05:32 PM
 
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I think that there are so many mass generalisations and stereotypes out there.....that new moms seldom really know which way to turn. This is especially for a brand new Mom. My 5yr old ds "slept" through the night around 9 months old. That is he began to wake less frequently and was alseep for longer intervals, about 5-6 hour stretches. He was ebf, slept side-car. Even from the first few weeks, this guy was a "sleeper"! I think it was around 4weeks that he slept for a 4 hour stretch and man, I was nervous! But I thought - YAY, he "slept thru the night"

My twin ds's on the other hand, at 10months old are very different sleepers! One will sleep through from 9pm to 5am while the other will sleep for maybe 3 hours at a time during the "night". He will stir and sleep sorts restlessly and sometimes wake up to have a play for a few minutes then conk out again.
They too are ebf (tho close to weaning) and sleep side-car. SO if you had asked me when my older ds was around 6 weeks if he "slept thru the night" and I said well Yeah! You probably would have immediately lumped me into those who CIO and visit BC. When had someone took the time to dig deeper, my idea of sleeping throought the night at 4-6 weeks was a good solid 4 hour stretch!

which parents are better and who has better babies - those on babycenter or those here? I think this is a bit rude actually. I thinks its the wording that makes me feel rather yuck! I try to gently and informatively (not with condesention or an air of superiority) sway Moms to a more ap/natural way of parenting. I think that one of the things that needs to be overcome about AP/GD/NAtural PArenting is the "sterotype" that all of us who do it are Pushy, Intolerant and Preachy "better than you because I do <x,y,z>" granola types. Threads like this do nothing to help eliminate that sterotype whatsoever!
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Old 06-04-2004, 05:40 PM
 
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I've always thought it was because they were using formula. Breastmilk is digested faster so babies get hungry soon and wake up wanting to eat.

I also agree with the thought that parents seem to think children are an inconvenince. I think if I was working and getting up twice during the night, I would have much different feelings about it than I do as a SAHM. I don't get up at 5:00 a.m. like some moms have to in order to get to work by 8:00, so I'm not sleep deprived when I have to get up during the night. I'm never up for more than 10 minutes, so sleeping from 10 to 6:30 while getting up twice works just fine.

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Old 06-04-2004, 08:43 PM
 
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QUOTE: I think loving-my-babies also makes a good point. It depends on how you define "sleep problems". If your baby is in a crib down the hall and wakes five times a night, then you will have a problem. But if your baby is right beside you and just stirs until they get a boob, and you barely wake up...well, no problem!


It is comments like this that make even the most dedicated co-sleeper like myself completely crazy. Piglet68, I don't doubt for a minute that your nighttime scenario plays out exactly as you describe it. But it doesn't for me, no siree! Dr. Sears will also lead you to believe - and expect - that a nursing mother, sleeping with her child, just "naturally" nurses it back to sleep without hardly becoming conscious.

Hooey! When my baby wakes up, I wake up. And I mean, WAKE UP. As in, must lie there waiting for sleep to come after he's nursed to sleep. Over and over and fricking over. I am fully conscious, it's not a sweet parenting moment at all. Now of course, what I go through is a whole lot easier than what I'd deal with were he down the hall in a crib. And believe me, you wouldn't hear me complaining if we were only talking twice a night. But we're not. (Insert hollow laugh).

Happily, he's my second, and so I know this won't go on forever.
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Old 06-04-2004, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you everyone. At the end of the day, I guess sleeping habits really depend on the individual baby. I have read thoses studies by McKenna as well as Meredith Small's Our Babies, Ourselves and am aware that most of society for most of history have had babies who co-sleep and nurse frequently, on demand. So, why I can't just ignore the people surrounding me who tell me about their babies who sleep for 8,10 or 12 hour straights, I don't know. No matter how good a job I think my son and I are doing, I still, have nagging thoughts, somewhere in me, that maybe I am doing something wrong. And, yet, I know that babies, in general, have short sleep cycles. I think I've got to just move on and get some thicker skin!!!

THANKS EVERYONE!!!
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Old 06-04-2004, 11:38 PM
 
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My 2 cents: I often wonder how many of these people just sleep through their kids waking. Do you know how often I have heard from grand parents, cousins, aunts, et that commented on the baby crying and mom not getting up?

I have a friend who as a teen lived with her older sister. This sister swears up and down her babies were sleeping through the night at 6 weeks. The truth was the sister was but she (my friend) would get up and take care of them because she could not stand to hear them cry.

Also, when I had strep and on meds my children were sleeping in other rooms. My youngest was sleeping on the couch with daddy. I comment how lucky she decided to sleep for the last few days. My husband corrected me “You might of but we didn’t”. I honestly do not remember even waking to nurse her half the time. My husband watch closely to be safe.
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Old 06-05-2004, 01:07 AM
 
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My 2 cents: I often wonder how many of these people just sleep through their kids waking.
ITA! Case in point: my bro and sil. They have a split-bedroom floorplan in their home so the master bedroom is not directly next to the children's rooms. My dh and stayed with them for a month while we were moving, and their toddler woke up at least 2-3 times every single night. My sil is a total CIO mom who has told me time and time again that babies have to be "taught" how to go to sleep at night and swears this is the only way. But her kids don't actually sleep. Every time this toddler cried at night it would wake my own ds up. Ds got to come and cuddle in with mom and dad and go right back to sleep, while his cousin remained crying and crying upstairs. Before I had a baby of my own, when I would stay at their house, I would always get up with their children, sometimes several times a night. Not only the baby/toddler, but the preschool age children too. The only time my bro and sil would come get them would be when I would take the crying child and stand right outside their door so the HAD to hear it. Even if they do hear the children cry, they ignore it, but a lot of the time they don't even hear it.

I think the formula/digestion issue is only a small piece of the puzzle. My ds had to be bottlefed and he woke up many times a night for a long time.
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Old 06-05-2004, 02:13 AM
 
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my ds didn't sleep through until he was 2, then started waking again after dd was born (i had milk again and he wanted to drink it :LOL) when he was 2.5 and didn't start sleeping through again until i nught weaned him. actually, i don't know that he sleeps through now, as he always ends up cuddled up to me - not sure if he's sleep cuddling or actually waking up to snuggle. dd, OTOH, has slept through since she was 5 weeks old. it started at 6-8 hour increments and by 12 weeks or so, she was sleeping 12-14 hours. both were breastfed, both slept in the same room as me (ds in a cosleeper until i learned to nurse laying down, dd was in a pack 'n' play bassinet at the end of the bed, then a crib next to the bed, now *in* the bed). anyhow, in my mind, dd is the abnormal one. i'm not complaining - at her age, ds was reverse cycle nursing - waking at least hourly to nurse. anyhow, dd will occaisionally stir, but not for the breast. when she was tiny, i'd hear her sucking on her hand in the middle of the night and try to feed her, but she'd push the breast out of her mouth and shove her hand back in. for the most part, though, most people i know with kids who slept through at an early age did some sort of CIO - or the baby slept down the hall without a monitor - so who knows if they *really* slept through.
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Old 06-06-2004, 12:28 AM
 
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Hi ya Sarah!! What board do you host?
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Old 06-06-2004, 04:27 PM
 
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Hi ya Sarah!! What board do you host?
I host the Starting Solids board and co-host the Feeding Questions board. I am also around on a few other boards occasionally as a member. What is your sn at BC?

Sarah : , mama to Lucas (8) , Ryan (5) : , Andrew (1yr) , and someone new : due early Dec.
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Old 06-06-2004, 04:42 PM
 
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I think a lot of it has to do with where these babies sleep. I co-slept with DS (same bed) and he woke to nurse 2-5 times a night until he weaned. But he never cried to nurse, just snuffled a bit until I popped the breast into his mouth, then back to dreamland. DD sleeps in a co-sleeper next to our bed and "wakes" only once a night. I think it would be more appropriate to say that she wakes ME, only once a night. I'm sure she wakes more often, but she sucks her fist to get back to sleep. I think because she's not right beside me, I am less likely to be woken by her "snorfeling". I can only imagine that a baby in a crib, down the hall, would be heard even less than my DD in her co-sleeper, giving her parents the impression that she's sleeping "through the night".

~~Kristina~~ Mama to DS(10/30/01), DD1(VBAC 3/28/04) and DD2(HBAC 5/21/06)
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Old 06-06-2004, 05:34 PM
 
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A lot of the difference, I am convinced, has to do with co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, not necessarily CIO. I co-slept until my daughter was six months, and just stopped a couple of weeks ago. The difference is amazing. She was waking to nurse, or play, or fuss 3-5 times between 11 and 6. I was very sleep deprived. In the early months, she would just nurse, and GO BACK TO SLEEP, which was fine for me. After five months, she started waking more often, and staying awake longer. I couldn't take it any longer. I am amazed by the mamas who live like that year after year being "really" woken several times a night. I felt like a POW. Anyway, moving my babe into her crib did not seem traumatic for either of us. I didn't do any CIO, or ignore her. I just put her in the crib when she went down early in the eveing. Instead of popping up every couple of hours, she sleeps pretty solidly. Many nights, she is sleeping 7pm to 6am, like the Baby Center babies. About half the time, she wakes fullly to nurse around midnight, and then back in the crib. I have seen her stir, and even fuss for a minute, in her sleep. For six months, I would be woken and tend to her at those times. Now, it doesn't register, and she is able to stay asleep on her own. I think we are both doing better with more sleep. Sometimes, long-term co-sleeping doesn't work out for people, and they are no less responsive or attached to their babes. Although I am a proponent of co-sleeping, for us, it really only worked well during the first couple of months, when she had to be nursed every 90 minutes. The last month or two, we were just keeping each other up, I think. I am actually very glad I made the transition now, because I think if I waited even a couple more months, she would have been very set in her ways, and resitive. So, if I have a second one, that's the deal: We co-sleep for 3-4 months, then into the crib.
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:43 AM
 
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I host the Starting Solids board and co-host the Feeding Questions board. I am also around on a few other boards occasionally as a member. What is your sn at BC?
My sign in is the same with a 1 on the end : . The boards you host must be rewarding. I have occasionally ventured over for advice and have gotten some excellent info
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Old 06-07-2004, 12:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Raven67
A lot of the difference, I am convinced, has to do with co-sleeping vs crib sleeping, not necessarily CIO. I co-slept until my daughter was six months, and just stopped a couple of weeks ago. The difference is amazing. ....if I have a second one, that's the deal: We co-sleep for 3-4 months, then into the crib.
Just please keep in mind the dangers (re: SIDS) of young babies sleeping too deeply.

One of the reasons babies sleep longer when not beside a parent, is that the parent is not there to guide their sleep cycles. They tend to spend longer periods of time in a deep stage of sleep than cosleeping babies, and it is believed by many experts that this is a risk factor for SIDS.

Sleeping longer isn't always better. The parent must weigh the risks of their current sleep situation and the effects of sleep deprivation on the parent, versus putting their child at risk for sleep-arousal disorders like SIDS and sleep apnea.

Also, I think that cosleeping brings about an awareness of the baby that is not had by non cosleeping mothers. The former automatically wake up when baby stirs, but the latter are shown to sleep much more deeply, in states where they aren't as aware of baby's arousals, etc. This may or may not be a good thing.

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Old 06-07-2004, 05:52 PM
 
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okay, here's my 2 cents...i think one reason the OP hears MDC mamas talking about nightwaking and baby center mamas not is because more challenging kids (sleep and otherwise) lead lotsa mamas into attachment parenting. i know that was the case with us. dd1 didn't want to be anywhere but right beside me in the bed at night. that's how we came to be cosleepers. we tried for about a week to put her in a cradle right beside the bed, but she would have none of it. the question might not be why are MDC babies cosleeping/nightwaking more, but why are MDC mamas cosleeping more and it might at least partially be because their babies are the kind who demand to be next to mama like my first did. now i know a lot of mamas here didn't fall into AP and cosleeping like i did, but were planning it long before they even TTC'd, but i daresay there are quite a few mamas here who became AP and cosleepers in response to their babies' needs rather than the babies waking in response to cosleeping. does that make any sense or clear as mud??

now that i know what i know, though, dd2 has never spent a night not snuggled up right next to me and i love it. i'd be a nervous wreck with her in the crib.

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Old 06-07-2004, 07:31 PM
 
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My experience has been much like Raven's. We had DD in a cosleeper for her first 4.5 months and recently transitioned her to the crib, where she is actually sleeping better. She is an extremely active baby--needs to move around to resettle--and the cosleeper (Baby Bunk) was too confining for her. She was getting quite restless. She is also a very light sleeper and we had a lot of problems with our movements waking her (she would then cry out). She now wakes up once or twice to nurse.

But she was born a naturally long sleeper and went for 4 hours at 6 weeks old. Also, we never did full-on cosleeping. Our bed was too small and its design too full of "gaps" for it to feel safe, and when we did try it, I found that DD kicked and struggled much of the night. She is not a snuggly baby, and wants her own space a lot. It kind of breaks my heart, but that's the baby we were given.

I find the implication that anyone who decides crib sleeping works better than cosleeping for her family is recklessly choosing SIDS and apnea danger as troubling as the assumption that anyone who cosleeps is recklessly choosing overlying/suffocation danger.

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Old 06-07-2004, 11:35 PM
 
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i have often wondered this myself... i think Baby Center is a pretty good slice of mainstream american baby life, and in general it does seem like crib-sleeping babies are "better" sleepers (this value judgment is extrapolated from the cultural attitude toward sleep, not from me). whether moms AP because babies are needy and inherently less likely to sleep, or babies are taught to sleep more lightly because of their proximity to mom (and milk) is a question of nature vs. nurture, really. Either way, it's damn annoying to hear about when you're feeling sleep-deprived and burnt.
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Old 06-08-2004, 12:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loraxc
I find the implication that anyone who decides crib sleeping works better than cosleeping for her family is recklessly choosing SIDS and apnea danger as troubling as the assumption that anyone who cosleeps is recklessly choosing overlying/suffocation danger.
Well, the difference is that cosleeping has been shown NOT to be associated with overlying/suffocation, whereas crib sleeping has been shown to be associated with greater incidents of sleep apnea and of SIDS.

With that said, I never used the word "reckless". I think it is wrong to make a child cosleep if they obviously want some space. I said the decision needs to be made with the risks considered. We consider the risks every time we put our kids in the car, but I don't think one would classify car-driving mamas as making "reckless decisions".

The point I was trying to make is that sleeping longer is not necessarily a good thing for young babies. The notion that all babies (even all babies for one mother) should be transitioned at 4 - 5 months is, IMO, wrong. Perhaps for that one baby the situation made crib sleeping the better option, but I think it is NOT in the best interests for MOST babies and so each child should be considered uniquely. And there are reasons to wait...hang in there a few more months until the SIDS risk has passed, if possible.

Decisions should be informed ones. I felt this information needed saying.

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