I can hear her screaming as I write this..ugh - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 109 Old 08-04-2004, 04:32 PM
 
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I also allow my baby, who is almost 7 months old, to follow his natural sleep pattern. I talked to so many parents who went through all kinds of hell to get their babies on a schedule. It just sounded so awful for everyone. I just relaxed and allowed my baby to do what he needed and, wouldn't ya know it, he basically fell into the "normal" patterns that I read about in the baby books. I understand that I am relatively lucky because I am a SAHM and my baby is very easy going. However, even if you need to put your baby to sleep by a certain time, I think there are so many better ways of doing it than allowing baby to cry when you know that all she wants is the comfort of mom or dad.

Like the father added to this thread, sorry I can't remember your name, you can alternate trying everything you can think of to calm and soothe baby when you don't know what they need. It can get exhausting and overwhelming but that's what we sign up for when we choose to have children.

Children don't choose or ask to be born. Adults choose to have children. That's why adults have to be the ones to make the sacrifices.

That's not exactly what started out trying to say but I got interrupted and then lost my train of thought. Oh well.

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#92 of 109 Old 08-04-2004, 10:07 PM
 
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a little OT but I just wanted to say, MarineWife, that I've really enjoyed your posts on this thread.

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#93 of 109 Old 08-04-2004, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Again many thanks to all of you for such insight into this matter. I never ever imagined that my post would lead to such a long & lengthy discussion. For now Dh & I have decided that I will continue to be the primary person to help DD get to sleep. BTW, I do read her cues & I only help her to go to sleep when she shows me she's ready. Every night it pretty much varies, on when she's ready. That being said it can still take her an hour+ to calm her down down-- that's just her.

So to help myself when these times get trying, DD & I got out some posterboard & I wrote down several passages to help keep me from going "This too shall pass" "Each Day with DD is a gift--cherish it because you can never get it back" "Life is precious & you created this life" The poster board is even more special because DD colored all over it . I have it hanging in our bedroom so I have the constant reminder. It has helped A LOT. Not to mention, I now tell DH (via the monitor) what type of pampering I expect once DD is asleep. ---tea, massage, drawing me a bath, glass of wine---whatever. Lets hope this works for awhile. Again many Thanks!

Lola , loving my DH, Mama to & we &
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#94 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 12:52 AM
 
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Good for you!!

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#95 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 01:11 AM
 
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Yay! I'm so glad to hear about these awesome moves you have made!

Blessed Be, Mama!

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#96 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 03:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
Please tell me that I'm misunderstanding you....do you honestly believe that crying until baby vomits is EVER okay???? Do you think that just b/c daddy is holding baby, that sitting by and letting her scream and wail unconsolably (when YOU have caused her distress and YOU have the key to end it?) has ANYTHING to do with Sears' message or Attachment Parenting? You really believe that expecting a baby to go cold turkey from nightnursing is in ANY WAY respectful of baby's needs? Does Sears not emphasize following baby's cues? How could baby possibly be more clear?

I'm almost at the point of tears right now that any mama on this board could think that these methods have ANYTHING to do with attachment parenting.

And, btw, I have not seen anybody flame the OP. She is not on trial here. The technique of allowing a baby to Cry-It-Out most certainly is on trial, and given the advocacy this board maintains (check out the link in my sig if you're confused) I think it is MOST important for anybody reading this thread to know that this is NOT at all attachment parenting.
Whew. This really bothers me. It seems so attacking on the O.P. Sticking a hugs emoticon onto the end does not dampen the screeching "this is not AP! you are doing the wrong thing!" tone to it.

Okay, I want to quote Sears Nighttime Parenting, there are lots of references to this situation but I want to quote directly from page 106 in the section called "Father Nursing":
"Letting dad take over may be necessary if the mother can no longer cope well... This solution can be difficult for a sensitive, attached mother to accept but she should remember that having dad comfort the baby is not the same as 'letting him cry'. Crying in the arms of a familiar, well loved parent is not the same as being left alone behind the bars of a crib to "cry it out." Dad will need to be patient as his little one learns to accept this new way of being soothed. The payoff is that the child will learn that he can depend on father as well as mother to care for his needs."

At other chapters in the book, such as the chapter called "Nighttime Fathering", Sears points out how when dad is at work all day that it is even more important to transition him as the person responsible for bed-times. Sears admits this is not easy, but says it is important for the sanity of the mom (who deals with baby all day) and for the bond with dad.

I think the moderator who is insisting that what the O.P. is doing is "against the advocacy that this board maintains" and that this is "NOT at all attachment parenting" needs to take a deep calming breath. I think honey you are going off a little too much on the OP, and you are making statements that may hold true for you but clearly Sears himself sees this differently. Piglet, you might have a good argument against Sears himself on this scenario, but I would strongly urge everyone (especially those in a moderator role) to be careful in getting hot and emotional and crying and insisting on what is "NOT A.P."

This momma obviously had two conflicting instincts... something told her she should let dad step up his nighttime parenting role and that baby crying in dad's arms is not the same as CIO (which jives with what Sears is saying in print)... but on the other hand she *hurts* when baby cries. She came to this board for support, not what-your-doing-is-NOT-AP rants. I am really disappointed by this thread and it seems like this is happening a lot. We should be careful with our authority when someone is in distress.

editing trying to make the quote look like a quote, LOL
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#97 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 03:15 AM
 
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Ummm, well to me it looked like the OP decided that the thoughts and advice given in this thread was worth a shot. And just because some guy named Sears wrote that in a book doesn't mean I believe it.

This link was shared with me tonight, I thought it was a wonderful article: http://www.aolff.org/myth.htm

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#98 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 03:56 AM
 
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Good for you, Lola. I'm glad you've been able to find some alternatives.

Piglet68, Thanks so much. I have enjoyed your posts, too. I had started to feel like I was the only one here who disagreed with this method.

To address the issue about not being supportive of the OP, support does not always mean agreement. The point of this website is to discuss and learn about AP. No one will get anywhere if we pussyfoot around things and avoid the truth for fear it might upset someone. We are supporting the OP in her quest for finding the right solution to the problem she is having. I'd rather have that kind of support even if someone tells me I'm wrong than have everyone tell me what I'm doing is ok just so my feelings won't get hurt.

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#99 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 10:31 AM
 
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"avoid the truth for fear that it might upset someone":

I am only pointing out the danger in acting as if there is only one "TRUTH." We must realize when we are overly vehement that our truth may not be someone else's....and that what is considered the "right" solution for one may not be someone else's.


"And just because some guy named Sears wrote it in a book":

I thought it important to accurately represent what Sears did in fact write, since people were using "this is against Sears and what AP stands for" as part of their critique.

Nighttime Parenting suggests that mom leaves the house to not hear baby's cries when dad takes on the nighttime role. You may not agree with Sears on this, which is fine and great, but don't tell someone she is against what Sears stands for when in reality he has published exactly what she is doing.

BTW, Sears suggests that because this is so heart-wrenching that mom should leave the house for a little break, till Dad gets baby used to nighttime routine. He also suggests Dad can take baby out driving in the car. And Sears goes on and on about how important this is to the mother, this ability to get some personal time in the evening (and for dad to get time with baby).... many of the posts seem to criticize the O.P. for being selfish for even wanting that little break.

Anyway, just pointing out this *IS* a Sears technique.
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#100 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 10:49 AM
 
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I've been pretty quiet here but I'd just like to point out that although support may not always mean agreement there are *supportive* and *non-supportive* ways to voice your disagreement. I think some of the language on this board has been very inflammatory, judgemental and condemning and it upsets me. Maybe just watch how you phrase things a little. You can voice your dissenting opinion without smashing someone over the head with it and making them feel inferior. I think people posting want honest answers but not to be made to feel like they are horrible mothers. No one here is perfect but it seems that there are a few who forget that they aren't.
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#101 of 109 Old 08-05-2004, 11:43 AM
 
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OH *I* know that I am not perfect! I don't believe anyone here was implying they were!

And *I* did not say that this mama should follow Sears' every breath to solve her dilema. I don't believe I ever mentioned Sears

But in any case, this mama already said she was going to try some different ideas, ideas which I think are wonderful, maybe the ideas sound really bad to you? I'm just not sure what the problem is here? The OP mama herself does not seem mad or offended....just the other people offering her *support* do?

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#102 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 12:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
I was lying in bed with DD nursing her, grimacing...and all of a sudden I was struck by this thought that just pierced right into my heart - I looked at her tiny 2 year old body, her feet tucked into my lap, her hand resting on my breast, and I realized that in no time at all this child would be gone forever...my little 2 year old nursling will be an older child with her own room, her own friends, her own activities, and she will not need me at night anymore. This time we have is SO fleeting, and our children will never be at the stage they are right now, ever again.
Brought tears to my eyes. I can't tell you how many times I look at my 3.5 year old son and I am overcome with emotion over how big he has gotten. Then I look at my 15 month old DD and I swear I won't let time fly by... and yet I can distinctly remember just yesterday being very pg with her...

Maybe the one main thing any of us can get from this thread is the shortness of baby/toddler/preschool years.
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#103 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 12:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wemoon
And just because some guy named Sears wrote that in a book doesn't mean I believe it.
I know sears is kind of like a poster person for AP, but I don't like him and I feel he is very mainstream. next thing you know he'll be advocating CIO.
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#104 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 12:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wemoon
This link was shared with me tonight, I thought it was a wonderful article: http://www.aolff.org/myth.htm
Wow, I just love when someone defines my "real needs" for me.

Dads are really getting the shaft on this thread. Makes me wonder that it isn't called "attachment mothering".
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#105 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 12:53 AM
 
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Sarah, I think because we are the ones that breastfeed and carry the child in our wombs for 9 months, we do have a different role than the dad. asking why dads can't do the exact same duties that we do is like asking why can't they carry the babies. it's just not how it is. I agree we deserve help from our husbands or dp. BUT let's not forget, a mother is essencial for baby's survival, a father (sorry to sound so cold with this, I love my dh and think he's irreplaceable) BUT fathers are not needed to survive. kwim?
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#106 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 01:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sistermama
Wow, I just love when someone defines my "real needs" for me.
It's all about perspective.

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#107 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 02:58 PM
 
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I don't know of a single mammalian species where the father has any real role in parenting the children. This is almost certainly due to the fact that it is females who lactate and therefore must be in close contact with the offspring. It's not our fault that Nature set mama up to be the primary caregiver in those early months of a child's life. And while we are not mice or coyotes, we have millions of years of evolution guiding our behaviour and that of our children. It is no mystery to me why babies prefer mothers over fathers when they are very young. Sure, we can take steps to involve Dads but I think when it gets to the point of trauma for the child, we are working against Nature and that is a tough road for everybody. Like rolling rocks uphil, kwim?

And the thing is...there are just so many ways that Dads can be involved without the need for crying. It irks me that people are suggesting we are somehow not "Dad friendly" because we're saying that maybe Dad should not gain his attachment at the expense of the child's physical and emotional well-being.

While I agree that AP is not a laundry list of what to do and not do, there HAS to be some limits, some things that define AP, or what is the difference between this and any other style of parenting? It is possible to criticize a method without criticizing the parent, and I think it's obvious from the OP's posts that we have done that successfully.

And once again, NOBODY has said on this thread that the OP was selfish for wanting me time, everybody has agreed it's necessary and deserved. Can we please cut that straw man down for the last time???

ZanZan: what a wonderful idea, making that poster with your child. And chatting with your DH like that over the monitor. Very inspirational!

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#108 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 04:26 PM
 
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Piglet, your making me want to read the conitnuum concept again!!! :LOL

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#109 of 109 Old 08-06-2004, 04:33 PM
 
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piglet: I love your last post
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