newborn down the hall? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-18-2004, 04:14 PM
 
Piglet68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Posts: 10,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Aw geez, you guys are making me blush!

I have my heart set on an Asian themed bedroom set, with a platform style bed, tatami mats, and futon-style mattresses, a headboard that angles for sitting up and reading, all in a lovely dark wood-stain.

Right now, it's a king size mattress on the floor. In our new place we'll have two queens on the floor.

I figure by the time both kids are out of our bed, we'll actually be able to afford our dream bedroom set and pay cash, instead of buying on credit now...So it actually worked out perfectly! :LOL

teapot2.GIF Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)  ribbonjigsaw.gif blogging.jpg homeschool.gif

Piglet68 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-18-2004, 04:31 PM
 
Graceoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Now, while I think it's very accurate to say that it is UNNATURAL for a baby to sleep in isolation, I do know from years of research that biovariablity is a substantial consideration. Not all creatures are the same, and that certainly applies to behaviour. I'm not sure it is fair to assume that a baby who sleeps happily in a crib still "needs" his mother by his side. And I certainly have no objection to parents who feel better with baby in a crib, if baby is happy there. While I honestly believe that most babies don't like cribs (evident in the supposed 33% rate of "sleep disorders" in North American babies that is virtually non-existent in other cultures; not to mention the host of sleep training manuals available to parents), I'm quite willing to accept that there are babies out there who sleep better with a bit of space, and/or are quite accepting of a crib.
Quote:
I guess my point is, that perhaps those who don't cosleep are understandable exceptions to the general expectation that cosleeping would/should come naturally to all mothers.
Piglet - that you for the above insight and comments. I was begining to feel like no one *wanted* to understand where I was coming from.......thanks.

my~hearts~light - I think a co-sleeping arrangement with baby in the same room as mom and dad is a great compromise between bedsharing and total isolation. If my baby will allow we will have this very arrangement.

Grace - photographer, wife and mom to 4 great kids (Ethan 5.00, Ainsley 4.02, Owen 12.04, and Ellis Ann 10.07) :
Graceoc is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=loving-my-babies]yeah, that!

and to be honest.. I cannot understand not cosleeping with a baby because of nice furniture? yeah, that's called sacrifice. if i were not breastfeeding, I'd have heck of a body! but you know.. my children need me more than my mirror... i love having a perfect room, furniture, whatever. but my babes come first and my babes need mama.[/QUOTE



Why is it not considered cosleeping lately here if you are using a bassinette? I'm sorry that some mothers feel that they have to sacrifice to cosleep but I don't. I have a nice bedroom and a bed for my baby right next to it. When I lay down our heads are maybe a foot apart. Having a nice home is important but you can bet my babies come first. Then again if I want to put her in bed with me for whatever reason I can and do. I have a king sized bed. It doesn't make you or I the better or lesser mother that I have my own bedroom the way that *I* want it and you have yours set up to accomodate your household. The function is still the same. The reasoning it still the same. We both want our babies close to us.
Changed is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess I just don't see that as a compromise. It's just as good in my eyes. In my mind I imagine it's the safest place for a baby. No danger of being suffocated and yet close enough to have the benefits of mama close by. I hope it works out well for you Grace. That's my plan too. I knwo that I'll end up with the baby sleeping with me some, I can't stay awake when i'm nursing.
Changed is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 04:41 PM
 
Heavenly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I haven't read all the other replies yet but I'm sorry that you are appalled by someone not wanting to sleep with their baby. my children were both in my room for 4 weeks. During those 4 weeks I did not sleep and went into severe depression. I have been a diagnosed insomniac since I was 7. I can't sleep with noise of any kind of people touching me. Having the kids in my room made me insane with tiredness, depression and frequent panic attacks (until you've been a true insomniac you won't understand this). When they were put in their own rooms I was finally able to sleep between feedings. At 21 months my daughter STILL nightwakes and I have no problem going to her room to nurse her. My husband has the monitor on his side of the bed (her room is straight across the hall from us but I have to have a loud white noise machine going to sleep) so I don't hear all the squirming and snoring (my kids both snore too) and when she wakes, not crying, just calling for me, if I don't hear he does and tells me. I have never left my kids to cry and I always respond immediately. So should I have them in my room and become a basket case or put them in their own rooms and be a functioning human being? Man I guess I'm just selfish.

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
Heavenly is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 04:45 PM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
I guess I just don't see that as a compromise. It's just as good in my eyes. In my mind I imagine it's the safest place for a baby. No danger of being suffocated and yet close enough to have the benefits of mama close by. I hope it works out well for you Grace. That's my plan too. I knwo that I'll end up with the baby sleeping with me some, I can't stay awake when i'm nursing.

by what you are saying, there's a danger of being suffocated by co-sleeping? research suggests otherwise. I truly believe it's impossible for me to suffocate the baby. and also, I want to say, I find your POV mother-centered, not baby-centered. I think it's important to see what our babies want. I am sure if your baby could talk and you asked her if she would rather sleep in a bassinette next to your bed or with you, she would say with you. and using a co-sleeper, may be considered cosleeping, but a basinette, in my eyes, is not cosleeping, it's the same as crib-sleeping, except much closer to your bed. but it's still a separate closed environment. by definition, the word cosleeping is sharing sleep in the same physical place, this place in my case is the family bed.
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's not fair. This thread was and is not talking about insomniacs. No one said they were allaped. If you HAD read the entire thread you would understand that I was talking about doing this by default, not with a good reason like insomnia ect. Why get so defensive witout taking the time to read the whole thread?
Changed is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
by what you are saying, there's a danger of being suffocated by co-sleeping? research suggests otherwise. I truly believe it's impossible for me to suffocate the baby. and also, I want to say, I find your POV mother-centered, not baby-centered. I think it's important to see what our babies want. I am sure if your baby could talk and you asked her if she would rather sleep in a bassinette next to your bed or with you, she would say with you. and using a co-sleeper, may be considered cosleeping, but a basinette, in my eyes, is not cosleeping, it's the same as crib-sleeping, except much closer to your bed. but it's still a separate closed environment. by definition, the word cosleeping is sharing sleep in the same physical place, this place in my case is the family bed.
I do think it's a *possible* danger in my mind, yes. I would like to say that I find your POV rather... Well I won't go there

I'm sure if you could talk you your 2 year old she would talk back. Unfortunatly, my 2 year old can't talk and we never had the option of cosleeping in the same bed until recently but of course at 2 she's pretty well adjusted. As I said she's epileptic. In my *mother centered* approach I decided that should she seizeor overheat and then seize and roll off the bed or wiggle under the pillow, in a crack ect it would not be safe for her.

You have the right to your opinion. I have the right to think it's wrong. It's not a contest, it's a sleeping arrangement.
Changed is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 05:06 PM
 
Graceoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
and also, I want to say, I find your POV mother-centered, not baby-centered. I think it's important to see what our babies want. I am sure if your baby could talk and you asked her if she would rather sleep in a bassinette next to your bed or with you, she would say with you. and using a co-sleeper, may be considered cosleeping, but a basinette, in my eyes, is not cosleeping, it's the same as crib-sleeping, except much closer to your bed. but it's still a separate closed environment. by definition, the word cosleeping is sharing sleep in the same physical place, this place in my case is the family bed.
Well since she didn't say it I will - why the attitude? I think those of us how don't bedshare for whatever reason have explained our situations. Why do you have to call names? And yes 'I find your POV mother-centered, not baby-centered' is what I consider namecalling. :

I could understand if we were not attentive to our babies, if were were forcing them to sleep isolated with nothing there for instant comfort or even worse CIO - but that is not what we are talking about at all. We are talking about having a baby either at arms length (with the crib literly next to the bed) or in the same room at all times.......I just don't understand how that is so 'mother-centered' and not meeting the needs of the baby. You may not be saying it in so many words - but your post reads that we are not good enough mothers because we don't sleep in the same bed with our babies and that is simply not true.

Grace - photographer, wife and mom to 4 great kids (Ethan 5.00, Ainsley 4.02, Owen 12.04, and Ellis Ann 10.07) :
Graceoc is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 05:12 PM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my-hearts-light: I don't think that example is fair at all. your baby has a condition and that makes it all different. ofcourse, I am not going to argue with you because I don't have an epileptic child, so that situation is different. I am talking about children with no health problems, these children, in my opinion, need to be close to their mother at bedtime, I would say, the first year, is crucial for babies.
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Right but you said MY approach was mother centered and I already listed my reasoning for no bedsharing one of them being about having a bedroom and one because my baby is epileptic. Of course my situation is different. People here need to understand that no one has the same family and the same life. The division here recently is sad. It's sad that it's caused by people trying to trumph other mamas AP values.
Changed is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 05:59 PM
 
RiceMomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I said my husband and I see very little of each other and we need our evenings together, this was just one of the reasons I don't continue to co-sleep (granted to you, MHL, that you were talking about newborns in your OP, but others are taking it much further.)

And it's very literal that hubby and I don't have much time together- he works full-time so that I can be at home with the babies, and he is a full time college student. We prefer to have our bed to ourselves, and that's our choice, and it's not anyone's business what we do in our bedroom, and even less anyone's business where we have sex. It's so sad that other people can't respect that choice- a choice that is NOT hurting my children.

More on the topic- I agree that it is social conditioning that people put their kids right in the crib when they come home from the hospital. Everytime I take the babe to the Dr, they give out tips sheets about baby's care, and it always says emphatically not to co-sleep. Many first time moms just think this is what you're supposed to do- it's the same with many things, like disposables diapers- it's just what we're taught we're supposed to do. A new mom is bombarded with advice. When I brought my first baby home, my MIL, who I adore and who only meant to help, told me I held my baby too much, that she needed rice cereal in her bottle and that I should flick her foot really hard to wake her up if she falls asleep during nursing. New moms need AP-er's to reach out to them and teach- gently, invitingly- not judgmentally and with a superiority complex.

Personally, I think co-sleeping is great for those who find it works for their family. I shared my situation for those who claimed to want to understand another POV, but I suspect they don't really want to understand at all.
RiceMomma is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 10:03 PM
 
Snowbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where's the evidence that people (current adult around the world) who slept in cribs are worse off than those who slept in their parents' beds or in their parents' rooms? There are plenty of healthy and plenty of dysfunctional folk on both camps.

What exactly are those creatures hiding under the crib that will snatch the baby away and hurt it? I'm being funny but really, you guys make it sound like there are ghosts everywhere in your house ready eat up these babies unless they're in your arms. The world is not that unsafe, babies are not that vulnerable and, yes, like they say "shit happens" and shit can happen with the baby in your arms or in his/her crib. Sorry for the cursing ... just using the saying accurately

As for the argument that in most countries, families sleep together, therefore it's what's natural .... have we considered the fact that they may "cosleep" because they can't afford houses big enough to have separate rooms or afford beds or cribs for their kids or even for themselves. Many sleep together out of necessity!! Give them a bigger house, beds, cribs and see if they refuse it and see if most of them don't automatically put their kid in another room. Maybe cosleeping is uncommon in america (and other industrialized countries) because people actually have to work *against* their instinct in order to cosleep despite having the resources NOT to.

FYI - something being "new" (which in the case of cribs still means a few hundred years) doesn't make it "bad". So the fact that cribs are a newish thing doesn't automatically justify the argument that they are no good. Neither does the fact that most of the world doesn't have them. Most of the world doesn't have access to a toilet or running water ... but aren't we glad we have those, they have really improved our hygiene and prolonged our lifespan. Just because most of the world does something one way, it still doesn't mean it's better or right or more natural.

Lets not assume that we know the workings of babies inside out. None of us really do. So much about babies is STILL a mystery. So to claim that babies *need* to be against their mothers bodies every second of the day is just an assumption. Maybe babies also need to be left to be for some period of time. Granted, in modern day there's a huge push for premature independence on the part of infants/babies, however, let's not overcompensate by shifting toward pushing for over-codependence and enmeshment. Maybe there are negative consequences to not allowing an infant to spend some time alone. Just a thought, but I'm not expert.

Regarding a couple's need for alone time (without baby) in their own bed -- some of you said that you and your DH have this time by leaving your baby in your bed to go hang out on the couch or have intimacy elsewhere... how is baby alone in your bed better than baby alone in his/her crib? From your post, I gather that you do, in fact, leave your child to sleep alone somewhere for some period of time? Well, that's what I do too so why are we arguing? .... it's just a matter of location, location, location.

I also think it's HUGELY important to take the mother's needs into account and it is OKAY for a mother to satisfy her own needs as long as her child is not put in danger. It is imperative actually. And in taking care of herself, the mother can model to her child how to engage in self-care. We are mothers ... we are not slaves nor are we saints nor martyrs nor perfect creatures. There's IS a duty to take care of your baby's mother and of your baby's parents' relationship and, yes, sometimes this means "baby in crib".

wemoon: in college, when my morning classes were over, I'd go to my dorm room and sleep all afternoon and on the weekends I'd sleep until 1pm and the rest of the day, I'd sit around with my friends watching t.v. or just talking. Now from the moment I open my eyes, I am caring for my child full-time and cleaning house and running errands. So, unless you mean that I should sleep with my baby during the night but ship her off during the day so I could lounge -- I don't think the analogy applies.

loving-my-babies: "I truly believe it's impossible for me to suffocate the baby."

Data: "incident data from January 1990 to December 1997 linked adult beds to at least 515 baby deaths, 121 were co-sleeping deaths, that is, rolling on top of or against baby while sleeping; more than three-quarters involved babies younger than three months of age. The other 394 deaths were due to suffocation or entrapment between a mattress and a wall, bed frame, headboard, footboard, bed railings or adjacent furniture."

It's possible! (even if unlikely or safer than crib sleeping)

piglet68: We ARE social animals and, therefore, as our social environment changes, we adapt to it. Once upon a time, children were raised by communities. In some places, they still are. Babies are breastfed by many women, not just their mothers and are handed over from woman to woman so that it can be held at all times while the biological mother takes a break (for whatever reason). Nowadays, we don't all have that luxury (most of us don't). If I had people around taking over some of the breastfeeding or holding or cuddling or changing or even cooking my meals or cleaning my house, then I would imagine that a restful night's sleep wouldnt' be such a big deal and I could just sleep with my baby. But, our current social world dictates that I do EVERYTHING ... and in order to do everything without dying... I need a little sleep here and there and I get that best with baby in her crib.

I can assure you that my baby does not emit distress cries when I finally put her in her crib nicely swaddled after being fed, changed and held all day. If she were emitting these cries, I wouldn't leave her there.

I think it's funny (and sad) that there is even argument among cosleepers about what "cosleeping" means. Is it baby in bed? Baby attached to bed on a sleeper? Baby in the same room? Exactly how many feet away or close by does the baby have to be for it to be cosleeping? Does the baby have to be "touching" mommy or just in the same bed? I'm being sarcastic but also asking for real. Who exactly took the ruler and figured out what distance is optimal for baby?

My point is that each of us is only an expert when it comes to our own baby (and even then, not really). We know very little about other women's babies and, therefore, none of us can dictate what is BEST.
Snowbaby is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 10:19 PM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Where's the evidence that people (current adult around the world) who slept in cribs are worse off than those who slept in their parents' beds or in their parents' rooms? There are plenty of healthy and plenty of dysfunctional folk on both camps.
this sounds so much like the "I was formula fed and I'm ok" argument. are you? really? can you tell me for certain?


Quote:
As for the argument that in most countries, families sleep together, therefore it's what's natural .... have we considered the fact that they may "cosleep" because they can't afford houses big enough to have separate rooms or afford beds or cribs for their kids or even for themselves. Many sleep together out of necessity!! Give them a bigger house, beds, cribs and see if they refuse it and see if most of them don't automatically put their kid in another room. Maybe cosleeping is uncommon in america (and other industrialized countries) because people actually have to work *against* their instinct in order to cosleep despite having the resources NOT to.
I have to disagree here, I have been in many countries around the world, where crib sleeping is unheard of, but cribs so exists (only "weird" people have them in these places) almost like they are ashamed of even admitting they have cribs. people don't cosleep because they don't have money to buy a bed! believe me, they don't! they cosleep because they go into parenting believing that is best, and coincidentally, their babies never cry! it's the natural thing to do! nature intended things to be this way!

Quote:
FYI - something being "new" (which in the case of cribs still means a few hundred years) doesn't make it "bad". So the fact that cribs are a newish thing doesn't automatically justify the argument that they are no good. Neither does the fact that most of the world doesn't have them. Most of the world doesn't have access to a toilet or running water ... but aren't we glad we have those, they have really improved our hygiene and prolonged our lifespan. Just because most of the world does something one way, it still doesn't mean it's better or right or more natural.
again, I disagree strongly! cribs are part of a culture that pushes babies to be independent. it is part of a culture where babies are NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, they are just little ornaments that people carry around. not you or me, I am talking in a very general tone here. they are part of THIS culture, where everyone coos and awws over babyshowers, baby gifts, little bottles, expensive cribs, but then they have the baby and can't wait to sleep train to get their life back. this is the culture that invented cribs. yeah, it sounds so natural and nature-oriented.


Quote:
Data: "incident data from January 1990 to December 1997 linked adult beds to at least 515 baby deaths, 121 were co-sleeping deaths, that is, rolling on top of or against baby while sleeping; more than three-quarters involved babies younger than three months of age. The other 394 deaths were due to suffocation or entrapment between a mattress and a wall, bed frame, headboard, footboard, bed railings or adjacent furniture."

It's possible! (even if unlikely or safer than crib sleeping)
this is unsafe cosleeping. there have been NO STUDIES done to date comparing non-safe cosleeping and safe cosleeping. these 2 are VERY different. do you know if they parents you quoted above, were under the influence of medications, alcohol, tobacco? do you know if they were over-weight? do you know if it was the parent that was cosleeping? I am thinking you don't. they probably were, and that is why it was unsafe.

Quote:
piglet68: We ARE social animals and, therefore, as our social environment changes, we adapt to it. Once upon a time, children were raised by communities. In some places, they still are. Babies are breastfed by many women, not just their mothers and are handed over from woman to woman so that it can be held at all times while the biological mother takes a break (for whatever reason). Nowadays, we don't all have that luxury (most of us don't). If I had people around taking over some of the breastfeeding or holding or cuddling or changing or even cooking my meals or cleaning my house, then I would imagine that a restful night's sleep wouldnt' be such a big deal and I could just sleep with my baby. But, our current social world dictates that I do EVERYTHING ... and in order to do everything without dying... I need a little sleep here and there and I get that best with baby in her crib.
WE adapt to it. not a newborn baby. inside the uterus, it works just like it did millions of years ago. babies expect to come out into the world they were supposed to come into. but instead, they are born into a shoking circumcising, painful, cribsleeping society. babies get used to it, unfortunately, but they are born just like babies were born millions of years ago, expecting to be held, not left to cry, breasfed, carried around all day, etc.. I found the book "happiest baby on the block" was very informative about this point. how babies are kind of like "cave babies" when they come out.


Quote:
I think it's funny (and sad) that there is even argument among cosleepers about what "cosleeping" means. Is it baby in bed? Baby attached to bed on a sleeper? Baby in the same room? Exactly how many feet away or close by does the baby have to be for it to be cosleeping? Does the baby have to be "touching" mommy or just in the same bed? I'm being sarcastic but also asking for real. Who exactly took the ruler and figured out what distance is optimal for baby?
to me, honestly, it's not about thinking I'm better than anyone that puts their baby in a crib. I just think cosleeping, is THAT. cosleeping. sleeping together. I don't say it in a sarcastic tone or anything. I don't think you are less of a mother if you don't cosleep. I just think the term is so basic and you want to start adding extras to the word. why? it;s such a simple word. it has a simple definition. sleeping in bed with parents is cosleeping. sleeping on the bedside in a bassinette is sleeping on the bedside in a bassinette. sleeping in a crib in the other room is sleeping in a crib in the other room. I don't see why everything now has to be named cosleeping. does this make you feel better? because if it does.. then maybe you feel cosleeping is the way to go and you don't feel comfortable with your decision...??
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-18-2004, 10:25 PM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
oh.. and i also wanted to add.. if money were the obstacle that keeps most of the world from cosleeping.. then you know what? I have money so I can afford formula! see? it's the same thing. I can afford formula but I find it inferior so I CHOOSE to do what to me, is the natural and best thing to do. breastfeed. I can afford a crib. do I have one? NO. I choose to sleep with my child. I choose to cosleep.
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies


sleeping in bed with parents is cosleeping. sleeping on the bedside in a bassinette is sleeping on the bedside in a bassinette. sleeping in a crib in the other room is sleeping in a crib in the other room. I don't see why everything now has to be named cosleeping. does this make you feel better? because if it does.. then maybe you feel cosleeping is the way to go and you don't feel comfortable with your decision...??
That's just YOUR opinion. You are no smarter, no more the authority, educated or fit to judge than TONS of moms here. I like that reasoning...

Sleeping in bed with parents is just that. Sleeping in bed with parents. Sleeping with your baby is cosleeping. If I have a twin bed or a crib butted against my bed am I not cosleeping? If that's the case what's the diff between that and a bassinette or cosleeper?

Does this make YOU feel better? To attempt to convince us all that you know better than we all do what is and isn't cosleeping ENOUGH.

The thing not sinking in is that I *DO* feel that cosleeping is best under optimal circumstances. Most for that matter.
THAT'S WHY I COSLEEP WITH MY DAUGHTER. Family bed, badsharing, sharing sleep ect... there... have your special terms.

Everyone not up to the standards of cosleeping set here by all means forget what's best for your family and put them in bed with you.
Changed is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 12:11 AM
 
LizD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: with all the madmen
Posts: 2,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the tone of this thread, which began as asking for opinions, is going a bit far. As someone pointed out, what we are sharing here is really no one's business, so perhaps this undertone of criticism is inappropriate.

I do want to say that in some LLL lecture of years past, Peggy OMara makes the point that while we have evolved very rapidly, in some ways we have not; she put forth that when "baby's born, baby expects a tiger!" That this is why human babies need to be held/carried/slept with. But we are individuals from birth, too. Some babies hate the sling but like a backpack; some only like a snugli facing out. Should they be forced or trained to do otherwise because Dr Sears and Jean Liedloff say so? Incidentally, Dr Sears, AP advocate extraordinaire, says wherever everyone sleeps best is where everyone ought to sleep. But that's a problem with labels. They can get dogmatic really fast, so rather than evaluating the maternal infant attachment itself, every activity has to be measured against some AP scale. I saw this at a Waldorf school. Rather than look at the whole picture, some parents would examine every activity, every toy or storybook to see if it were really "Waldorf," and in so doing miss the whole point.

If I put my baby in the "cosleeper" I still consider it sleeping with me. But if some evening he sleeps all night in the moses basket on the floor, because that's where he fell asleep, I won't consider it an end to cosleeping. This is what I mean about labels. It's the same with "natural childbirth." It means different things to different people, and my idea of its definition isn't necessarily *the* definition. We don't even use the term cosleeping, really. I think of him as "in with us." Where he actually is in the room is immaterial.
LizD is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 12:14 AM
 
Houdini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Searching for Jason Bourne
Posts: 3,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Did anyone else have a baby who would scream and cry until they were laid down in their crib or is it just me???
Seth slept with us for the first three months, then in his crib until eight months, then with us until 2 1/2 and has been in his own bed since then. He is now nine.
Madi absolutely refused to sleep anywhere but her crib. She was a NICU baby for a month, so when she came home I was so happy that I could "make up" for that month she wasn't home. I would hold her and she would scream. I would walk, she would scream. If I rocked her she screamed. Didn't matter what I did. I would finally lay her down after ten minutes or so of trying and her screaming. She would go straight to sleep. I figured it was b/c of all the screaming. About a month of this and it dawned on me. She didn't want to be messed with when she was tired. I layed her down and she went right to sleep. Go figure. Seven years later and she is still like this.
Zachary slept with us for the first four years or so. Now at six he falls asleep in his bed and will come into our bed sometime in the middle of the night.
Nicholas is just like his sister. Hates to be messed with when he is tired. Even as a baby he wanted to be in his bed. I always thought is was b/c of the NICU that Madi wanted to be on her own. I guess maybe it wasn't.
My kids all decided from early on whether they wanted to sleep with us or not.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
Houdini is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 12:19 AM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
That's just YOUR opinion. You are no smarter, no more the authority, educated or fit to judge than TONS of moms here. I like that reasoning...

Sleeping in bed with parents is just that. Sleeping in bed with parents. Sleeping with your baby is cosleeping. If I have a twin bed or a crib butted against my bed am I not cosleeping? If that's the case what's the diff between that and a bassinette or cosleeper?

Does this make YOU feel better? To attempt to convince us all that you know better than we all do what is and isn't cosleeping ENOUGH.

The thing not sinking in is that I *DO* feel that cosleeping is best under optimal circumstances. Most for that matter.
THAT'S WHY I COSLEEP WITH MY DAUGHTER. Family bed, badsharing, sharing sleep ect... there... have your special terms.

Everyone not up to the standards of cosleeping set here by all means forget what's best for your family and put them in bed with you.
i have thought about this and a cosleeper or sidecarred crib i consider cosleeping because it's an extension of the family bed. i don't know about you but from where i come from, you either sleep with baby (next to, under) baby or you don't. that does not make me better, i dont know why a definition is so important to you. fine.. you want to declare that sleeping in another room is cosleeping? go ahead. it wont chage my opinion or alter me or my thoughts in any way..
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 12:29 AM
 
Tuesday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think I have the intellectual strength to debate in this point. I can understand why some people decide co-sleeping doesn't work for them. I love co-sleeping with my son and although I didn't plan to do it. As I've said before - I had no idea co-sleeping was a viable option. I just hadn't heard of it being done and no books I read recommended the practice. (I've of course now read Our Babies: Ourselves, etc. and am wiser.)

Last night, I realized how co-sleeping, even at 15 months (DS's age), is important. My little guy sat up, virtually still asleep, vomited the contents of his stomach and then literally fell over, on his stomach and lay, asleep in his vomit. I picked up the poor baby, cleaned him, held him, pulled out the dirty bed sheet and lay him down. He didn't wake up at all - poor guy - - turns out he has the flu (he's been sick all day). I was thinking I was so glad he was next to me and I could tend to him. What do people do when they can't see their child and they throw up in their crib? I'm not criticizing their decision because I know hardly anyone who doesn't put their child in a crib. I'm just saying, besides the absolute beauty of having my baby boy next to me, I am glad I was able to pull him up out of his vomit! (Sorry, if that is too much info!)
Tuesday is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 12:38 AM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday
I don't think I have the intellectual strength to debate in this point. I can understand why some people decide co-sleeping doesn't work for them. I love co-sleeping with my son and although I didn't plan to do it. As I've said before - I had no idea co-sleeping was a viable option. I just hadn't heard of it being done and no books I read recommended the practice. (I've of course now read Our Babies: Ourselves, etc. and am wiser.)

Last night, I realized how co-sleeping, even at 15 months (DS's age), is important. My little guy sat up, virtually still asleep, vomited the contents of his stomach and then literally fell over, on his stomach and lay, asleep in his vomit. I picked up the poor baby, cleaned him, held him, pulled out the dirty bed sheet and lay him down. He didn't wake up at all - poor guy - - turns out he has the flu (he's been sick all day). I was thinking I was so glad he was next to me and I could tend to him. What do people do when they can't see their child and they throw up in their crib? I'm not criticizing their decision because I know hardly anyone who doesn't put their child in a crib. I'm just saying, besides the absolute beauty of having my baby boy next to me, I am glad I was able to pull him up out of his vomit! (Sorry, if that is too much info!)
wow. I'm sorry your little one has the flu. I'm glad you were there! that must have been scary for him!
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 03:19 AM
 
Alvenchrst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sactown, CA
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
WOW! What a stimulating thread! I simply had a thought when I was reading all this. We really wanted to co-sleep with ds and tried, but like many others I had a terrible time sleeping with him and the noises, touching, movements, etc. I finally decided that him having a sane mommy was more important.

Now here comes the unique thougt. I was thinking that if co-sleeping were such a natural thing for people all over the world and so many mothers here, why is there a fairly substantal group of mommies that just can't sleep with there babies next to them? I think it is becuase of the way we have been raised. I didn't co-sleep with my parents as an infant and only on occasion as a child. But I was in my own room in my own bed for 19 years unil I got married. It go from all those years of individual sleep to sleeping even with my husband was near impossible. Even still we both have a hard time. But to add a baby to that was crazy for us. I think many mom's who were raised that way were able to adapt, but there are those of us who can't. And I believe it's becuase we had our own beds for so many years. That's something we cannot change. I desperately wish I could adapt, but I can't.

Now that doesn't mean I couldn't still co-sleep inspite of my difficulty sleeping like some mamas mentioned on this thread. I applad you! So yes, there is still a choice involved, but for those mamas to whom cosleeping comes easy, you must realize that there are those of us who really struggle with it inspite of our desire to. We are in some ways permante by-products of the western culter we were raised in.

I am personally not ashamed of my choice to put ds in his crib where we ALL sleep better. And yes I do wish I could adapt to the co-sleeping arrangment, and I still have a choice, but that's what I have chosen.

Side note to SNOWBABY. You should look into a crib tent by tots in mind. It may actually allow you to co sleep and even if you don't choose to, it will still keep your little one safe in the other room.

www.totsinmind.com

my 2c for what it's worth.

Ashley, Jesus loving mama to Jaden (8) Trace (6) and Liam (3) and fost/adopt twins Talia and Oliva (1).  Happily married for a decade! 

Alvenchrst is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 10:47 AM
 
Snowbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
loving-my-babies: "this sounds so much like the "I was formula fed and I'm ok" argument. are you? really? can you tell me for certain?"

Okay, this time I'm not the one that got nasty As I said previously - I fully acknowledge my own neuroticism. But to answer the question that you posed instead of answering my question, nope i'm not okay - I'm a healthy neurotic, just like most of us! And, FYI, I was breastfed and I coslept with my parents and siblings because I was born in a different country and all five us (parents and 3 kids) shared one room because we were that poor (so, unlike you, my experience was direct and not based on conclusions I made while traveling). My mom tells me that my two siblings loved sleeping with her but that from day 1, I was the kind of baby who prefered my own space. She said she ended up having to set up a little cot at the other side of the room because I refused to sleep in the bed with them. Apparently, even during awake times, I'd hide under things or go out back so that I could play alone (I actually remember this stuff from when I was older). Even when we came to the US, my brother and I shared a room that was divided by a curtain from my parents' room. So, by the time I got to college and FINALLY had my own room to sleep in, I developed severe insomnia because, although I had craved a room of my own, I had never learned to sleep without someone else in the room. I wish I'd had that opportunity.

Anyway, just sharing a bit of personal history. We have been speaking in generalizations, but maybe if we understood each other's specific histories then we could see how individual we are (and were from the moments we were born) and maybe we could then have more respect for each other's choices because those choices would make sense.

Peace.

Edited to add: Ashley, we put a screen door on the baby's room so the cats can't get in. I looked into the crib tent and it's a neat invention, but the screen door worked best for us.
Snowbaby is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 10:54 AM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Okay, this time I'm not the one that got nasty As I said previously - I fully acknowledge my own neuroticism. But to answer the question that you posed instead of answering my question, nope i'm not okay - I'm a healthy neurotic, just like most of us! And, FYI, I was breastfed and I coslept with my parents and siblings because I was born in a different country and all five us (parents and 3 kids) shared one room because we were that poor (so, unlike you, my experience was direct and not based on conclusions I made while traveling).
oh, I think I forgot to add, I was breastfed and we coslept too, we're also from another country! (where breastfeeding rates are 99% and mostly everyone cosleeps except no one calls it that) so, it was not just observing from outside, I have also been lucky enough to travel around, BUT my first experience with cosleeping and breastfeeding I learned from my mom and dad that loved me and let me join their family bed
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 11:01 AM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvenchrst

Now here comes the unique thougt. I was thinking that if co-sleeping were such a natural thing for people all over the world and so many mothers here, why is there a fairly substantal group of mommies that just can't sleep with there babies next to them? I think it is becuase of the way we have been raised. I didn't co-sleep with my parents as an infant and only on occasion as a child. But I was in my own room in my own bed for 19 years unil I got married. It go from all those years of individual sleep to sleeping even with my husband was near impossible. Even still we both have a hard time. But to add a baby to that was crazy for us. I think many mom's who were raised that way were able to adapt, but there are those of us who can't. And I believe it's becuase we had our own beds for so many years. That's something we cannot change. I desperately wish I could adapt, but I can't.
I have to agree. unfortunately, this society, or better said, this country, has been making mothers believe that cribs are better and formula is better for a really long time. only now people are able to come out of that and see that the books were wrong. this is the only country where there are the MOST families that "cannot cosleep. coincidentally, in this country, there are the MOST women that have too many difficulties breastfeeding and cannot overcome those difficulties. in other countries, people have no pumps, no breastfeeding books, no LC's to call, nothing. and yet, they are incredibly succesful at breastfeeding. This is why I am not being understood. I am looking at this from a global point of view. this is why I don't understand the "cosleeping didn't "work" for us" argument. because I believe if it were like this all over the world, at least 50% would not breastfeed and no one would cosleep. so, looking at it, like I said, globally, I think because these generations never coslept, and even if they did, were raised in a very "american, modern" way... this could affect what these mothers do today. I have always slept with someone. I think this is why it's so easy for me to cosleep. first, my parents, then, my siblings, then my husband.
loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 11:43 AM
 
wemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
A few comments I would like to make....

When I first got together with the kids' dad, and we slept together, I slept like crap. I really just wanted my bed back by myself. He snored, loudly, he took up all the bed, I had to shove him and try to reason with him while he barely could understand what I was saying. Well, after awhile, I just got used to it and we slept togther with not many problems.

Same thing with my kids. At first I was awoken constantly, I had to nurse all the time, my kids grunted, wiggled around, made it so I had a little corner of bed for myself.

I got used to it.

Would you dream of putting your SO in another room because he was too loud, moved around too much? Maybe you would, who knows, but from what most are saying here bedtime is the only time they have with their SO.

Now at the ages of 3 and 5, I'm so used to them in my bed that it is strange when they are at their dads house and not here. It's like if your SO, who you sleep with everynight is just not there tonight. You would miss having your SO in bed, even though he does snore or kicks your feet one too many times at night.

I want to add, that I'm very pleased that this discussion hasn't gone too far, and stayed in the realms of considerate debate. Gives me hope for the MDC world!

coffee-drinking caffix.gifsocial worker in HIV/AIDS ribbonred.giflady-loving ribbonrainbow.gifbike-riding bikenew.gifmom of two twins.gif
wemoon is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 11:59 AM
 
loving-my-babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: From Chile but live in Pgh, PA
Posts: 6,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wemoon. I agree with you! this is what I always thought, it's not about "it didn't work for us" sometimes we have to make things work and it takes time and dedication.

just my opinion.. and I am too very glad we've been debating without being mean! :LOL

loving-my-babies is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 01:19 PM
 
Graceoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Would you dream of putting your SO in another room because he was too loud, moved around too much? Maybe you would, who knows, but from what most are saying here bedtime is the only time they have with their SO
LOL Jeni - actually YES! When I am pg and/or have a small baby in the room/bed with me I *do* kick DH out of the bedroom. During 'normal' times when I am not totally sleep deprived or waking in the middle of the night I can get used to him, since once I fall asleep I am ok for the night. But when I am waking frequently and need to put myself back to sleep I simply can't have him in the room, so he goes and sleeps with one of the kids.

Grace - photographer, wife and mom to 4 great kids (Ethan 5.00, Ainsley 4.02, Owen 12.04, and Ellis Ann 10.07) :
Graceoc is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
Changed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
fine.. you want to declare that sleeping in another room is cosleeping? go ahead. it wont chage my opinion or alter me or my thoughts in any way..

No one here ever said that sleeping in a seperate room is cosleeping. I'm going to attempt to salvage this...

The point is that in the same room is at least in some form, cosleeping. Of course sleeping in a seperate room is not and I'm sure everyone would agree on that. Interestingly enough, most people I know IRL who cosleep in any form regularly don't JUST cosleep. Most start the baby (not a newborn but...) in their crib and then when they wake to nurse bring them into bed and there they stay because mom is fast asleep. This will be my plan also. With a newborn I would keep him with me until the very second I get a water and head upstairs. Then into the bassinette he'll go as long as he are happy there. Right beside my head. When he is much older i'll put him into his own room in his own crib until I got to bed or whatever. I'm not going to bed at 7 or 8. I'm also not going to take naps with my kids. I never have. I don't have time to take a nap nor would all of my children sleep at the same time.


Houdini, just wanted to say that you aren't the only one. I really think that is because of the NICU experience. My DD is the same way. I used to drag the bass around the house for her since she wouldn't let me hold her. SHe has neurological problems added to that too and doesn't like to be held when she's tired or crying. It usually gets her more upset if you even talk to her. I jsut have to lay her down and back off. If she feel sure no one is going to mess with her she'll calm herself. I do know that happens to alot of NICU babies. I'm so hoping I never have another one.
Changed is offline  
Old 08-19-2004, 02:27 PM
 
janerose's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: my little house in the woods
Posts: 1,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Whew! Finally made it through all the posts.

To answer the original question -- no, in general, I do not think it's safer to have a newborn down the hall rather than in with you. Emi's due in 4 wks. I simply can't imagine taking this tiny baby who's literally never been seperate from my body for the past 9 months & having her so far away. Like lots of you said, I'd be a basketcase!

Snowbaby: ITA about people just tossing their pets when a baby arrives. My parents did this with the cat they had when I was born & I've always felt awful about it. We have NINE cats & 2 dogs. Of course we'll gladly get rid of them if they're a threat to Emi. DUH! We were lucky that we'd already made our bedroom the "cat free" zone of the house. It's the only place I can have houseplants that survive. Regarding the comment someone else made about wether your cats will or won't bother your baby, it really depends on the cat. We have several who I'm sure won't get anywhere near the baby for a long time & others who I know darn well will try to curl right up with her the first chance the get. We've had everything set up for several weeks now (crib sidecar onto bed, pack & play downstairs with topper on it to keep out the cats, etc) to let the pets have LOTS of time to get adjusted to that stuff & get trained. for doing the screen door. It's what we'll do at some point in the future when Emi moves across the hall. Only we'll put one on our room & one on her room so that they're both cat-free zones.

As for the whole "you're only *really* co-sleeping if you..." debate, I'm sorry, but this seems really silly to me. Shouldn't we all be here to support each other instead of judging who is & isn't doing co-sleeping "right"??? I really believe it's this type of attitude that turns people off to trying co-sleeping, breastfeeding, etc. Why can't we all just be respectful of the fact that we're all trying to do what works best for OUR family? I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the idea that there's only one way of doing things. Every family is different & whatever works best for your family is the best answer for you. I really, really believe more people would accept AP ideas if more of us took this approach.

Oh, and you'll notice I said what works best for your FAMILY not just your baby. Once again, what's wrong with a middle ground kind of solution that meets the needs of everyone involved? Sorry, but I refuse to believe that a baby being cared for by a run down, depressed, anxious mother is better off just because that mama is doing things the so called "right" way even though it's obviously not working for their family.

Just my 2 cents.

Holly
janerose is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off