Does anyone else here just let sleep happen when it happens? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 92 Old 09-30-2004, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama
Oh, one last thing – it seems like some people are using some routines but maybe not schedules (like us). Are we talking more about following our children’s rhythms (when possible) or limiting “routines” like quite time and etc.?
I think I mostly follow my children's rhythms, but also have a very, very loose routine where when it seems like the kids are getting tired then it is quiet time. There is no magic quiet time, like 8pm or anything. It changes with what has gone on in the day, how tired the kids are etc.

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#62 of 92 Old 09-30-2004, 10:04 AM
 
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Yea, that's us too.

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#63 of 92 Old 09-30-2004, 11:53 AM
 
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Same here...Cali goes to sleep whenever she goes to sleep, lol

I am glad to find out I am not the only one parenting this way!!
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#64 of 92 Old 09-30-2004, 01:05 PM
 
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I haven't read the previous posts because wow 4 pages! But I wanted to chime in with my opinions.

We also just fall asleep when we fall asleep, but my son is only 10 months which is totally different then a 3 or 5 year old. When he is tired he gets fussy and grumpy and I know he wants to be held and/or nursed, then he falls asleep. I very very rarly work at putting him to sleep. If it takes more than 10 mintues and he odviously isn't interested, ie trying to crawl, screaming/crying when I try to lay him down or nurse him. He usually plays himself out and I snuggle him then put him to sleep.

I think it also takes knowing your child and know what helps to fall asleep/stay asleep. Some nights when I am exhausted and I know he is too, but he won't lay down I have to go into the computer room and rock him. I think it's a combination of the heat, the light and the humm of the 3 computers. Other nights he wants to be laid down and not touched, or he wants to lay down but be snuggled. Just like everything else in child rearing you have to learn their signals and learn what to do with them.

Some kids need schedules to function, especially many high needs children. My stepmom's sisters son is extremely intense, he has some autistic tendancies but not diagnosed autistic. He is extremely intense. He has to have a shedule. He was ask what time it is so he knows when it is time to go to bed, take a bath, read a book, etc. He thrives off it. If you tell him you are going to be a little late leaving for school, he freaks out.

On the other hand I have a friend who is very schedule orientated. At about 1 month old she started her daughter on a schedule for sleeping, bathing, nurseing, etc. When she started solids at 4 months, she ate them at a specified time. The sad thing about this was that the mother unknowingly helped to pretty much wean her daughter. At 12 months she only nursed her in the morning and at night. I am not knocking her because it is very cool that she is still nursing, but there have been times when her daughter wants to nurse at play group because other babies are, but her mother tells her "No, it's not time for bed, you can't nurse yet."

I personaly don't like schedules, I had a hard time waking up for school my whole life no matter what time I went to bed. I am just not an early riser, never have been. So, we go to bed when we are tired and wake up when we wake up. But I think we will have trouble when DS gets to school age because he can't just go whenever. He needs to be there on time, etc. So I feel around age 4 or 5 I will try and get us on a more regular schedule for eatting, sleeping, baths, etc.

I say whatever works for the family. I don't think every child needs to be on a schedule or doesn't need to be on one.
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#65 of 92 Old 09-30-2004, 05:33 PM
 
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I probably have a very loose routine but it's not a routine to get baby to go to sleep. We eat dinner around 7 pm. After dinner I usually give baby a bath, which takes less than 30 minutes. That's our routine. Baby doesn't usually go to sleep at night until after 9 so there's a lot of time after the bath when we are just hanging out. When he starts to show his sleepy signs I take him in the bedroom and pop in the video of his daddy reading him some books. His dad has been deployed since he was 6 months old so we do this to keep them connected. I am not a schedule oriented person, however, so we don't do this every night. My ds still usually goes to sleep at night around the same time every night. He also usually takes naps around the same time every day without any prompting on my part. The only thing I do to "control" his sleep is that I will wake him up at 6 pm if he's still napping. I only do this because, if I don't, he stays up later than I can, which I feel is dangerous.

My 13yo who doesn't have a schedule told me the other night that he purposely went to sleep at midnight even though he didn't really feel tired.

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#66 of 92 Old 10-03-2004, 05:09 AM
 
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When my daughter was a baby / toddler she went to sleep regularly on her own. Now that she is older it is pretty much the same. She still argues at times, but mostly she goes to bed at 9PM on school nights. She slept in her crib most of the time, but as she became a toddler, she started sleeping with me in my bed until she was two, then I started trying to get her to sleep in her own room by sleeping in there with her. It was easy for her to start sleeping alone because she felt crowded and only wanted me there till she fell asleep. With our son, it has been a whole different story. The first six months with my son, he would only sleep about 45 minutes to three hours at a time during the night and I was up with him constantly. Then we went on a road trip to see family and stayed at a motel, and so he was in bed with us, and he pretty much slept all night long except for feeding. After six months of no sleep, that felt great, so we started putting him in bed with us all the time. Now, he absolutely will not sleep in his own bed at all, and he is two years old now. It's very uncomforterable and I wake feeling sore, but I am getting sleep. How ever, he goes through phases where he wants to nap all day and stay up ALL night, when he gets in these phases, it is very difficult to get him back out of them because if I try to wake him early so that he will go to sleep at night, he gets extremely cranky.. He requires 10 hours of sleep when he is not napping, but actually sleeping, and the problem is, getting those ten hours to happen at the appropriate time. If I was working right now, I absolutely could not handle the mixed up schedule. But for now, I just do it his way, and wishing I had a routine. :yawning: :2toddler:
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#67 of 92 Old 10-03-2004, 07:58 PM
 
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This is a really interesting thread - especially from the perspective of a mum of 2 babies. I would have *loved* to ignore the whole routine/schedule thing - I'm just not that kind of girl, so to begin with we let our boys do their own thing. However, by the time they were about 7 mos I was starting to lose it a bit - never having a moment to myself, and getting stressed about never knowing what was going to happen next. So we started to do a routine which was based on a lot of thought about when the boys usually got tired - basically trying to read their cues and work with them. Doing this has meant that I have a fairly guaranteed time during the day when I can catch up with a bit of cleaning, cooking etc., and some time in the evenings to relax a bit (and come here - and get some much needed support).

Ds1 and ds2 actually have quite different sleep needs, so there has been a fair bit of compromise all round - e.g. ds1 often doesn't need his morning nap if he has woken up a bit later than usual, or he has his afternoon lap a bit later if he slept longer in the morning. Ds2 likes more sleep in the day so has squeezed in an extra nap now and again. They also have slightly different bedtimes. So we are trying to respect their rhythms...

An additional benefit has been that now my dp (a SAHDad) and I don't have to have endless discussions about who will do what, with what baby, and when. This is a real relief and means we can all be a lot more relaxed. I think this is just one of the many compromises of trying to AP more than 1 baby at a time... I have to say however that my babies seem happier with this than with the previous situation - because it means that we are much better at meeting their needs when awake or asleep.
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#68 of 92 Old 10-04-2004, 12:02 PM
 
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I don't know if this has been mentioned (only skimmed after page 1) but for those families where both parents work outside the home, certain time schedules are necessary, so you don't have the luxury of letting your child fall asleep whenever and make up for it by sleeping in the next day. My work right now is fairly flexible, but daycare closes at 6 regardless, so I can't let my DS sleep until 9 (as if!!!) and not make it to work until 10.

Personally, also, I believe that regular bedtimes are healthy. People have natural biorhythms which have been messed up by the use of artificial lights in the evenings and other diversions which keep us up later than we naturally would. A baby who stays up late into the evening would probably, almost definitely not stay up that late if the lights became dim after sunset and everyone was quieter.

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#69 of 92 Old 10-04-2004, 04:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sntm
A baby who stays up late into the evening would probably, almost definitely not stay up that late if the lights became dim after sunset and everyone was quieter.
Wouldn't that be letting sleep happen when it happens? Unfortunately, though, in my area, it wouldn't be a regular bed*time*, and it wouldn't help much with an inflexible work schedule. The sun sets here any time between about 4 and 10 pm, depending on the time of year and "daylight savings". It is natural for people in my area to sleep a lot in the winter, and a lot less in the summer. (And to work a lot less in the winter, a lot more in the summer.) When I was in school, coming home in the dark every evening and then trying to energize myself to do a bunch of homework was torturous. Many working people suffer from depression all winter, simply because they rarely see natural light: They have to drag themselves out of bed in the dark, and by the time they get home, it's dark again. In the summer, whole families (including little kids, who will eventually fall asleep in arms or in strollers if they feel like it) sit out on the steps in a party mood quite late. Even after dark, the heat, and the light feeling of excitement in the air, affects people's natural sleep pattern.

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#70 of 92 Old 10-05-2004, 11:26 AM
 
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I haven't read the whole 4 pages because I don't have much time but I wanted to post my opinion..

I don't do "bedtime routines" and don't like them. I also wonder often why people start their routines at about 5 PM!
First of all, we have no set bedtimes. I am a SAHM so my children can sleep when their bodies need it and I will be there to assist them (put dd to bed, put her classical music on -she doesnt go to sleep without it- pj's etc.. then I nurse my ds to sleep, and he doesn't have a schedule and he's almost 8 months. he still nurses and sleeps when he wants to. at night he sleeps with me and he nurses all night long as well. It wouldn't work to put them on a schedule because 1)I don't want to and 2)it would be a shock for them because they have always done what they want when they want it. they have never fought sleep, the only "rule" we have would be, when we go to sleep (usually around 11) everyone has to, if they haven't already. but this never happens because by 11 they are both sound asleep, ofcourse.
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#71 of 92 Old 10-05-2004, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eminer
Wouldn't that be letting sleep happen when it happens? .
Sort of, but linking it to sunset is more regular than allowing life activities to interrupt and people have innate circadian rhythms because of milennia of sleep cycles which reflect day/night. When I read your post, all I could think about was the movie "Insomnia", where the constant daylight and sleep deprivation was driving someone insane. And I've heard of studies showing the night workers and shift workers tend to have higher rates of disease, etc., due to the impact on sleep, regardless of the absolute amount of sleep they get.

I'm not a fan of "strict" bedtimes, but I think a loose bedtime around 7 or 8 tends to be best for most kids. I've noticed that my son actually sleeps better and falls asleep faster on the nights when we lie down and he doesn't seem tired at all. He'll be having a grand old time and not look tired and then we turn the lights out and nurse and he's out. If he seems tired, it's usually too late by the time we get clean diapers, pajamas, and into bed.

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#72 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sntm
Sort of, but linking it to sunset is more regular than allowing life activities to interrupt and people have innate circadian rhythms because of milennia of sleep cycles which reflect day/night.
Right, but in most parts of the world, day/night have been seasonally cycling for all those millenia. The clock is a very new thing. For most of human history, there was no "around 7 or 8".

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When I read your post, all I could think about was the movie "Insomnia", where the constant daylight and sleep deprivation was driving someone insane.
The post about how I get sleepy earlier in the winter? Why?

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#73 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 01:08 AM
 
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This is along the lines of some things I have read where there is debate about how much of a parent's life should change for a child. There are parents out there who go to bed at 8pm, and by many responses here, that would mean if their child were to stay up until 11pm, then so would they.

I was wondering if parents who go with the child's sleep patterns wake their children in the morning, because once they are at school, that is exactly what you'll have to do. Unless you home school, which is a viable option.

Also, how do you keep the bond with your DP? I don't know how my DH and I would have survived without those 2 to 3 hours of bonding time in the evening when our daughter is asleep. I mean, we would have survived, but as it is we flourish, our marriage is the happiest I have seen anywhere - and I think this is largely due to our time together. And of course, by extension, we have a happy home - which is the most important thing for a child's development.

I have no doubt there are many different ways to keep a happy home and a quality relationship, but it must be a little harder when you are up with children until 9 or midnight. Just wondering, if anyone would like to share with me.

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#74 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 01:15 AM
 
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Oh, and a last question. What happens when you have more than one child? Lets say child #1 stays up late and child #2 goes to bed early and wakes early. Oh Lordy, what then? Do those parents just zombie around all day living on a prayer for more sleep? Is following a child always the healthiest method, when so many routine babies are doing just fine - and so are the parents? Or is following the children only viable when there is one child? Again, just wondering how others are doing it.

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#75 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 01:59 AM
 
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I think most children do not stay up very late. For example, I follow my baby's natural schedule and he has always gone to sleep at night by 9 pm except for a few rare occasions when he was up until 10:30 or 11. I have another child but he is much older so I don't need to be up when he is up. We do homeschool so we don't have a set time to get up in the mornings either. However, as I stated in an earlier post, if you have to get a baby or child up for something on a regular basis, their bodies will naturally adjust to the new schedule. They will either sleep more during the day or go to sleep earlier at night. I think the times when this does not happen is when you have a baby or child with a true medical problem or sleep disorder.

I don't feel that this interferes with my relationship with my dh either. I have "quality bonding" time with him whenever I want. Our situation may be a little different because we did not have the alone time before kids like many partners. I already had my older ds, who was 9yo, when we got married. So, I was already focused on a child and my dh new that coming into the relationship. We co-sleep so the intimate times are a bit more of a challenge. I look at it this way, however, the time that my children need to be close to me and need me for everything is such a short time compared to a lifetime of marriage. I think if both partners understand this and agree that that is most important to them both, the marital relationship can flourish. I think there is a new and unique bond that is formed between partners when they commit to raising children together that goes beyond the relationship they had before. I have heard many men say of their wives in a loving and aweful manner, "That is the mother of my children." I know I feel differently toward my dh now that he is the father of my baby. Some men (and women to a lesser extent) have trouble with this change in their lifestyles. They can accept it and even learn to love it if they are willing.

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#76 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 02:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
I haven't read the whole 4 pages because I don't have much time but I wanted to post my opinion..

I don't do "bedtime routines" and don't like them. I also wonder often why people start their routines at about 5 PM!
First of all, we have no set bedtimes. I am a SAHM so my children can sleep when their bodies need it and I will be there to assist them (put dd to bed, put her classical music on -she doesnt go to sleep without it- pj's etc.. then I nurse my ds to sleep, and he doesn't have a schedule and he's almost 8 months. he still nurses and sleeps when he wants to. at night he sleeps with me and he nurses all night long as well. It wouldn't work to put them on a schedule because 1)I don't want to and 2)it would be a shock for them because they have always done what they want when they want it. they have never fought sleep, the only "rule" we have would be, when we go to sleep (usually around 11) everyone has to, if they haven't already. but this never happens because by 11 they are both sound asleep, ofcourse.
There is a big difference between having bedtime routines and putting babies on schedules, just so you know

My dd is one and would easily stay up until 10:30/11 pm if we let bedtime drift like that. When she was younger, she wouldn't fall asleep until 12 or 1. In our house, there is no of course.

I think the dynamic is different when you have a sleep fighter. They don't need schedules, but they do need HELP falling asleep. My dd is happiest when her sleep is regular. It isn't respectful of me to let her sleep patterns get out of whack.
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#77 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 03:36 AM
 
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Thanks, Alysia, that was what I was looking for, and it is true about the relationship dynamic being better when they father (or mother) your child. I was also wondering about this though, but forgot to post it in my first post -

"if you have to get a baby or child up for something on a regular basis, their bodies will naturally adjust to the new schedule."

When this is mentioned by people who let sleep happen when it happens, I think this is the opposite of that. To wake a child is not going with their natural sleep cycles. They may adjust to a new schedule, but that is still one we have given them. Know what I mean? I am trying to see how a family can follow a child's sleep patterns and not fall over themselves at some point.

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#78 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Calm

Also, how do you keep the bond with your DP? I don't know how my DH and I would have survived without those 2 to 3 hours of bonding time in the evening when our daughter is asleep. I mean, we would have survived, but as it is we flourish, our marriage is the happiest I have seen anywhere - and I think this is largely due to our time together. And of course, by extension, we have a happy home - which is the most important thing for a child's development.
.

Well, right now I am a single mama, but when I was with my X, we did not feel like our kids somehow ruined our relationship. In fact the kids were the best part of our realationship. When we were hanging out as a family, doing family activities we were the happiest. I just don't understand the notion that kids are somehow such a huge burden or strain on a relationship! My family IS(was in my case now) the relationship. The reason we seperated had nothing to do with "quality time", that is for sure.

If children can so easily ruin a relationship, just by being themselves and being around.... then I question the relationship from the get-go.

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#79 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Calm

"if you have to get a baby or child up for something on a regular basis, their bodies will naturally adjust to the new schedule."

When this is mentioned by people who let sleep happen when it happens, I think this is the opposite of that. To wake a child is not going with their natural sleep cycles. They may adjust to a new schedule, but that is still one we have given them. Know what I mean? I am trying to see how a family can follow a child's sleep patterns and not fall over themselves at some point.

I rarely have to wake up my kids for school. The first couple of days I had to wake the oldest one up, but I did so very gently, I would open up the blinds so it was light in the room, mention to her that it would be time to get up soon. I would just go about getting myself and my youngest ready, not being quiet or loud, just go on with life. I would then turn on the lights in the bedroom, mention again that she would need to get up and get ready for school. I go take my shower. Only one time was she still not up after that point, so I had to physically pick her up and bring her to the living room with me.

This was only the first week of school that this happened. My son has always gotten up in plenty of time on his own. And quite honestly, if my children really didn't want to get up, I wouldn't make them.

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#80 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 01:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eminer
Right, but in most parts of the world, day/night have been seasonally cycling for all those millenia. The clock is a very new thing. For most of human history, there was no "around 7 or 8".



The post about how I get sleepy earlier in the winter? Why?
Eminer -- meant to be joking about the movie Insomnia (prob should have put a smiley in there). Just remembering how hard it was to go to sleep when it was bright out when I was working nights.

Even with seasonal cycles, the change is very gradual, so quite different IMO than going to bed at 8 one night and 10 the next.

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#81 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 03:59 PM
 
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Calm, I can understand your point. You are absolutely correct that having to wake up at a particular time to get to school or work is not natural. Unfortunately, that's how our society runs. Waking a child earlier so that they will naturally adjust to an earlier bedtime is not ideal but sometimes needed if there is a schedule to keep. Waking a child earlier gradually over time so that they naturally change to an earlier bedtime is better than trying to force a child to go to sleep before she is tired. Anyone who has had a baby knows you cannot make that baby go to sleep. If a child does not get sleepy until 9 pm, why force her to go to bed at 7? If you do it because she needs 11 hours of sleep and you have to get her up at 6, then you start gradually waking her earlier in 15 minute increments over a week or two and she should slowly begin to fall asleep earlier until her body has adjusted to falling asleep at a time that gives her enough sleep when waking at 6 am. Or she may just take a longer nap or an extra nap during the day and still stay up until 9 pm.

I do understand that not everyone can stay up until all hours with their child. If my baby takes a late nap and has not woken by 6 pm, I will wake him so that he is not up too late at night. I hope all that makes sense.

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#82 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 04:34 PM
 
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Wemoon, I like your point about how everyone in the family is part of the relationship. That's how I look at things. I've gotten into discussions with friends that don't have children about this. They think it's very important to schedule couple time without the kids and don't understand why we don't do that. I just don't feel the need. It's not that I focus only on the children and never pay attention to my dh (although he's deployed right now so I guess I kind of do). I just like to do things as a family unit rather than in pieces. I am able to get enough time with my dh with my children around. I also think it's important for children to be exposed to adult relationships, to hear our adult discussions, to see us doing things together (not sex, of course). They are more likely to understand what a real relationship is like and less likely to believe in a fantasy and be disappointed.

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#83 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 05:09 PM
 
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[QUOTE=wemoon] [I just don't get all these crazy things people do to get their kids to sleep. Why not just start a routine of laying down and going to sleep with your kids and somehow muddle through it?]

This is coming off as a little bit judgemental.. crazy? well.. maybe.. But also accomodating to his needs.
My DS used to just fall asleep, angelically, on his own schedule, and we would shrug and say, ah, today we have a two pm nap. We never tried to force sleep times on him at all.

As he grew older, it became harder for him to sleep without his special song, and a quiet house, and i honestly feel he needed to rest. He would become exhausted, and i became exhausted. (i feel terrible for my housemates, who had to endure loud Hindustani ragas and me nagging them to please not bang pots and pans.)
A bicycle ride around the block doesn't seem to me to be that crazy, to help someone who needs it to get rest.

Lately, it is the biggest problem of the day. He is 21 months now, and around mid-day just falls apart. i don't WANT to ignore the fact that he needs to sleep, and he can't just fall asleep on his own. it isn't for ME that i sing songs and read books and cradle-nurse him to sleep; it's because he would lose his little head if i didn't!

Every person has such unique needs when it comes to sleep. For example, I like it to be silent (sometimes i unplug the fridge.) and pitch dark. I prefer to go to bed at one, to get up at dawn, and to take a mid afternoon nap. My DS wants to get up much later than me, take a longer nap, and sleep earlier. We have a sleep routing that may be called crazy (song and dance song and dance!), i guess, but it accomodates both our needs.
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#84 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 05:43 PM
 
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Calm,

When we are ready to go to bed, we take our dd to bed with us (if she isn't already asleep). So if we were going to bed at 8 pm, so would she. In general, this has worked out really well since the beginning. If the whole tribe is hunkering down, turning out the lights, and well nursie-ing :-), dd figures it must be time to go to sleep now. Occasionally, there have been times when dd could not get to sleep when we were going. Then one of us stayed up with her awhile, quietly, trying to encourage sleepiness (e.g. dh would take her for a walk). It wasn't much of a routine, either timed or with habitual parts: it was just time for the family to go to bed.

Re: bonding with my dh, small children generally sleep longer than adults at night. (That's certainly not an absolute, but most do, and we were lucky enough to get one who does. :-)) So in general, dd will either have conked out a couple of hours before dh and I are ready for bed, or she will sleep a couple of hours after we wake up. Another thing she sometimes does is take an evening nap in preparation for staying up until the family bedtime (which isn't at a regular time, but there's a ballpark). We value our alone time while dd is sleeping, or hanging out with her godmother in another apartment. But it isn't our only "dp-type" bonding time, by any stretch. Sometimes dd is busy by herself in another room. When she was a baby, she might be hanging out in the sling, and she didn't seem like a fully separate person yet.

If my dd were going to school, it would be by her choice. One of the things we'd discuss ahead of time about school is how you have to commit to showing up at a certain time, every day. We'd talk about how we'd all (since dh or I would have to take her) need to start going to bed earlier, to get to school on time. I'd probably try to get her directly involved with the alarm clock, showing her how to set it and letting it ring until it woke her so she could turn it off. If I had needed to take dd to a babysitter or daycare earlier on, I probably would not have woken her. If she'd woken up because of being moved, that reality would simply have incorporated itself into her natural sleep pattern. (This did in fact happen when we had to go somewhere and dd was still asleep.) She might have taken an extra nap later, or an extra long nap, or fallen asleep earlier that night.

Are you familiar with The Continuum Concept? It sounds to me sort of like you're asking if letting sleep happen when it happens is necessarily child-centered (used pejoratively -- i.e. child-centered in an unbalanced way). To me, it is just the opposite. I go ahead with my adult activities, my adult sleep habits, etc. When she was a baby, I carried Grace in a sling or in arms a lot while I did this. Whenever she was ready (not necessarily in two regular daily blocks) she would nurse to sleep, or fall asleep as I moved. Sometimes she seemed restless, and that cued me to lie down and nurse her (which is the first way she learned to nurse, as a newborn). If she seemed really asleep, and I wanted some space, I would put her down. Dh did the same things, except that he gave her to me to nurse a lot. When she seemed overtired or was crying in late afternoon/evening, we assumed this was a problem and found solutions (energy-discharge-oriented ones, mostly, and lighting).

We are going to have a baby in a few months. We'll do the same thing.

So anyway, sorry to have written a book, but what I'm trying to get across is that I think letting sleep happen whenever and wherever fits into a larger lifestyle. If that's not how you do baby care, or if you are naturally a routine-oriented person, it won't be hard to get your baby to slip into a routine, and it's perfectly healthy -- if that's how it works (as opposed to requiring night after night of suffering and crying). Personally, it would have been really hard for me to adjust my life to a rigid sleep routine. I've noticed I'm not the only one in my neighborhood, though most little kids nod off in their strollers. I think it fits well with life in the city, where you have to do a lot of things outside your home and transportation sometimes takes a long time (and doesn't involve a car).

Oye Yemaya oloto
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#85 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sntm
Eminer -- meant to be joking about the movie Insomnia (prob should have put a smiley in there). Just remembering how hard it was to go to sleep when it was bright out when I was working nights.
Ok, I think I gotcha now. :-)

Quote:
Even with seasonal cycles, the change is very gradual, so quite different IMO than going to bed at 8 one night and 10 the next.
True. My guess would be that the healthiest would be a fairly regular group pattern, with individual flexibility allowed within that framework. For example, everyone goes to bed around the same time, but maybe a child or someone who needs more sleep will take individually timed naps, or might go off and fall asleep earlier. And older person will probably sleep less at night, and might take a nap during the day. Of course, anyone up at night is still in the framework of the group sleep. It's quiet(ish) and dark(ish), and this will turn one's activities toward the quiet and reflective. I've read that in most traditional societies people collectively sleep a lot longer at night, but wake up individually in the middle for a couple of hours.

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#86 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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[QUOTE=kalakanya]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wemoon
[I just don't get all these crazy things people do to get their kids to sleep. Why not just start a routine of laying down and going to sleep with your kids and somehow muddle through it?]

This is coming off as a little bit judgemental.. crazy? well.. maybe.. But also accomodating to his needs.
Judgmental My most non-favorite word is now being applied to me once again. I'm sure you read the rest of the thread, right? I'm sure you saw where I said, that I wasn't trying to be judgmental, right? Yea, I'm being snarky now, I'll just admit it up front so I don't have to be accused of anything else.

Sorry everyone else, please carry on. I get SO SICK of the word judgmental being thrown around. Maybe the one who is judging me on my judgmental-ness should take a look at their judging behavior?

Ok then.....

I just want to say that I am totally loving this thread.

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#87 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 07:13 PM
 
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Erin and Wemoon, thank you. And of course others who touched on my subject. You see, I guess I am contemplating this whole child centered thing. I mean, I feel like my whole life is child centered, you know? All day she is on my or with me and I absolutely love it, but I must admit, when 7pm rolls around and i slump in my comfy chair with a book, look over at my hubby, it's like - aaaaahhhhhh. It's more like, the child focused activities are done, and we have uninterupted adult talk or activities.

I have tried taking my daughter out later at night and she stays up with the best of 'em. I have tried keeping her up with me when my hubby was working nights and it just goes on and on and on and she doesn't really settle. She also weighs 15 kilos, so holding her and slinging her has become literally painful. And so when I pop her into bed, snuggle in with her for half an hour, walk out with a kiss and an "I love you", she goes right to sleep.

How can I resist? I want to be more child centered at night, but it works so nicely with her bedtime that I am scared to change it, you know? But, I am still reading on in this thread, learning learning all the time, so thank you for your gentle speak with me, I am getting a good idea how it works, and your methods are very enticing - just a little scared at the moment of change.

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#88 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 07:16 PM
 
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Its kind of funny. A friend of mine used to either laugh or roll her eyes at me all of the time about my schedules and routines. Relatively speaking, I'm flexible about it.... but I do not have the luxury of just letting things happen when they happen. My life demands that I maintain those schedules and routines (which is not to say I prefer it that way). I work full time outside of the house and am a single parent with the added distinction of being the only parent in my child's life... so all child related issues and support for our household are my sole responsibility. Therefore, to make the best out of a not terribly ideal situation, I succumb and submit to schedules to keep my dd and I as happy and healthy as possible.

The fact of the matter is, if I let her stay up until 11:00 at night, there is very little flexibility in what time she can get up in the morning and I end up with a very unhappy kid for the entire day the following day who subsequently has a terrible time falling asleep that night (overtired). My days are really hard enough without setting my dd up to be crabby.

Also for someone like me, who went through serious upheaval for an extended period of time and had not one reliable component to my life, I enjoy the rhythm of our routine.

Anyhow, my friend used to always roll her eyes at me when I'd make mention of needing to leave somewhere to get dd home to bed. She's also a single parent but was able to live for years as a SAHM and part time student. She did allow let sleep happen when it happened when it came to her dd. There was always someone dd could stay at home with so even if my friend had somewhere to be her dd wouldn't have to be woken up, gotten dressed, etc.. That often meant her dd would go to bed at 1:00am and wake at noon the next day.

Well, about 2 months ago she moved out of her mom's, her dd has started school, she's working full time and lo and behold! They're on a schedule. A pretty tight one at that. Sleep is encouraged at a time that ensures a good night's rest and everything else seems to revolve around that. I kind of feel like reminding her of all those times she laughed at me or rolled here eyes at me for being "uptight" about a schedule.... but I won't.
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#89 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 07:52 PM
 
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Calm, It sounds to me that what you are doing is fine. I wouldn't change it if it works for you and your child.

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#90 of 92 Old 10-06-2004, 07:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm
...when 7pm rolls around and i slump in my comfy chair with a book, look over at my hubby, it's like - aaaaahhhhhh...when I pop her into bed, snuggle in with her for half an hour, walk out with a kiss and an "I love you", she goes right to sleep...
If everyone is happy, why change? I love the imagery. :-)

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