Anyone want to join me in the NCSS 10 day sleep plan challenge? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-18-2005, 11:02 AM
 
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I'm interested in joining this thread! I've just re-read ncss and I'm motivated! DD is 10 mo and it's TIME!

But first, can someone help me understand the logging thing? Okay, so I'm supposed to write my plan first and after at least 10 days, I'm supposed to log and assess progress, right? But how many nights am I supposed to log? Just one, or 10 in a row? And then do I wait another 10 days or so before I log again? Help!

And when you are logging, are you guys keeping a notepad right there and jotting down the times, or do you just remember it in the AM? Writing the notes right then and there will be more effort, but it might be worth it, I think.
From what I understand, we do a log for one night and one day for naps to get an idea of how much sleep DC is getting now and generally what time. That way, we can see progress when we do it again in 10 days time.

The book recommends that you keep a piece of paper and pencil beside the bed so you can write down the wakings immediately at night because remembering it all in the morning is quite hard.
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Old 03-18-2005, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Dianna, It took me a looooong time to realize Kate's sleep cues, so don't feel bad. She didn't start staying up for two hours until about 5 months. Until then, she went to sleep after being up about an hour and 15 minutes. What I would do is start at around an hour and a half and try getting her to nap. Try to notice how easily she goes down. Then for each nap, adjust the amount of time she's up by about 10-15 minutes. You'll probably see a pattern of when she goes down easiest. For Kate, I found it was 1hr. 15 minutes...she'd go down in about 5 minutes of rocking...if I waited until 1 1/2 hours, it would take me 15-30 minutes to get her down and she wouldn't sleep long....HTH!

Mamameg, I definitely have to write it down at night. My Mama brain can't remember by morning!!!
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:08 PM
 
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Anyone noticing results yet?

We're getting some over here, DD slept 5, 6, then 7 hours each night respectively! I found that popping my nipple out of her mouth and putting her in her cradle (or our bed, depending on daytime vs. nighttime sleep) *before* she drifts off has made the biggest diference.

How are you all doing?
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:11 PM
 
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subbing:-)
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:18 AM
 
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I'm only about a week or so into phase one, but we are seeing some pretty good results so far.

The pop-off is actually working! I was shocked the first time I did it and it worked. Honestly, it worked up a bunch of different emotions - glad it was easy, sad it was easy (does my baby not need me anymore?), annoyed that I had waited so long to try it. :LOL

The nightwakings are fewer (3 or so instead of 4-5) and I even heard her wake on the monitor a couple of times, but then she went right back to sleep on her own. Pretty good progress, I think.

How is eveyrone else doing?
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:28 AM
 
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I'm new to this board, but am starting the NCSS this week. I'm going to do the log tomorrow and then begin the next day.

Actually, we are going away for the weekend to my moms..should I wait to begin until we get back??
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:16 PM
 
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just started the book - subbing again (accidentally deleted previous sub)
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:00 PM
 
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I can't tell if we have results or not. I think I need to review the book again. The "gentle removal" is working most of the time. She is not as responsive to it when I first put her down for bed/ nap. However, when she wakes at night, she will go back to sleep with a back rub (30-40% time) or will roll over after a few minutes of nursing (all I do is touch my nipple to remove and she pops off and rolls over).

Okay... so that sounds like progress. I just wish the actual wake-ups would decrease :

Honestly, the best nights we've had were right after the night that daddy spent with her and I spent alone. He was able to soothe her back down a few times before bringing her to me to nurse. The next few nights she slept about 7 hours. The problem is that daddy is working some long hours right now and I feel guilty asking him to wake up with her so much in the night.

I plan to reread some parts of the book and do another daddy/baby slumber party soon.

PS I checked a few other sleep books out of the library and after reading some I think the NCSS is written well and makes a lot of sense to me. The only thing I think want to add to our lives is a little more routine. Not a strict schedule- I'm not talking baby wise here!- just some more patterns to our day (e.g. more consistent nap times and nap routines, more consistent feeding times, etc. with flexibility for baby's moods.

How are others doing with this? Is your life a free-for-all, or does baby have a bit of a routine??

Good luck everyone. :yawning:
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangle
...The only thing I think want to add to our lives is a little more routine. Not a strict schedule- I'm not talking baby wise here!- just some more patterns to our day (e.g. more consistent nap times and nap routines, more consistent feeding times, etc. with flexibility for baby's moods.

How are others doing with this? Is your life a free-for-all, or does baby have a bit of a routine??
I've been having a heck of a time with the daytime napping routine since DD has absolutely no sleepy cues (seriously, not just hard to read - none). She will go from smiles and babbling to *poof* screaming fussings in the blink of an eye, anywhere from 90 minutes to 2 hours of being awake. I try to start a naptime wind down by doing a mini nighttime routine, but she will melt down right in the middle of it : Usually all that works is swaddling and bouncing with her in the crook of my arm in front of the fan (for white noise) while she cries herself to sleep in my arms

Nighttime works beautifully though. She very clearly winds down, I give her a vanilla scented massage, swaddle her, nurse her, remove nipple, then place her in the cradle. I can already see that she knows the sequence! I can see she seems to respond to predictable patterns, I just wish I could figure out something that would magically work during the day. I hate that her naptime pattern is crying herself to sleep.
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:56 PM
 
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I'm almost done reading the book. I kinda already working with dd2 to get her to fall asleep without me. Especially at bedtime.

She does great at naptime since the beginning. I nurse then put her in her bed and she naps for about 2-3hrs. I think it depends on how loud her sister is, who naps for 2hrs.

So my goals are: to ger her to fall asleep by herself at bedtime and get her to nurse less at night.

How I'm going to do so the nursing less at night will wait until this summer probably and after she is used to falling asleep by herself. I think it will be easier if she fall asleep by herself before i temp to stop nursing her at night. Also by then she will be about 18mths old and I think that's a great age to start nightweaning. I may use the dr Jay Gordon method to nightwean.

Diana: I think maybe your dd needs a shorter wind down for naps. i could be wrong but she has a meltdown in the middle of it maybe it's too long?? jmo.

kbridi: wait until after the weekend. It will be easier for your child and for you too.

Sand, Mom to three girls and a new SON!!!!  babyboy.gif Born on March 7th, 2011  I get to do these again:   bfinfant.gifslingboy.gifcd.gif
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Old 03-24-2005, 09:27 PM
 
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I tracked DD's sleep last night, and despite the progress we've made over the last 10 days, it was a bad night. It was extra hard to have to write down all the times, but I stuck with it, becuase I really wanted to see the pattern. Here is it:

Nurse at 7:00, put her down in crib at 7:25
wake 8:02, nurse, crib at 8:08
wake 10:20, DH rocked her, crib 10:30
wake 11:15, self soothed back to sleep immediately
wake 11:30, self soothed back to sleep immediately
so far, so good, right?
this is where it gets hairy
wake 1:50, nurse, crib 2:05 (this is where I would normally bring her in bed with me for the night, but I'm trying to wean that, as well)
wake 3:00, UP AND ACTIVE UNTIL 4:30 (during this time, I rocked, I nursed, I rocked, I laid down with her, etc etc etc, she was going for none of it. I finally wore her down by sheer will of rocking rocking rocking rocking rocking rocking.... )
6:15, up for the day

Needless to say, I was this morning. Bummer.

But typing this out has made me realize that we did have a great success with the 2 self-soothings back to sleep. AND, I don't think its a coincidence that they were right after DH put her down. The constant presence of the boob can't be helping, yk? It was really encouraging for him, which is great, because I could use the help. He has done little to no nighttime parenting up until now (DD is 10 mo old ) and I'm worn out. He is now enthusiastically offering to do the earlier nightwakings so I can get more of a break, or even a 4-5 hour chunck of sleep if I go to bed at a decent hour. This is major progress for our family! Of course, I wish it had happened sooner, but better late than never. I'll gladly take it!

I guess I'm not feeling so bad about it anymore. I guess we're doing pretty well. Patience patience patience....
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:44 AM
 
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I am estatic I found this thread. I just recieved this book yesterday and I have been slowly readng through it. I might finish it tomarrow since I have a long road trip.

I would love to join you guys in this. It would help to have some support.

My DS went from being the baby you read about (11 hours of sleep by 6 weeks to the nightmare some people speak about (waking up every hour to nurse for 5 minutes)
For the first 6 months of my DS's life he slept happily pretty much anywhere I put him, in his crib, my bed, on the couch, in a chair, on the floor. Many times he fell asleep on his own, the rest of the time he nursed to sleep. At 6 months teething took its toll on my DS and he hasn't slept more than 4 consecutive hours since and he's been boycotting the crib too. If he wakes up in that thing he being to wail (he didn't do that before) Lastly he doesn't put himself to sleep at all anymore.

He used to be a cat napper. 45 minutes and that was it. He'd go down about every hour and half for one of the naps. Now I can get two good naps out of him from reading his cues. I got many of the tired signs from a news letter featuring Pantely's ideas. His first nap is about 2 hours after he gets up and his second naps is about 3.5 hours from the time he wakes from the first.

I guess my goal is for him to sleep peacfully for twelve hours, and go to bed before 8p.m. In theory i guess I would want him back in his crib but I am not gonna push the issue I LOVE my family bed cat and all.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:53 PM
 
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Denise, my DD was/is the same way. She slept so, so well up until about 5-6 months, and then teething started. Then she started waking every hour or so, and after she finished teething, she still continued on with the waking habit. That's a lot of the reason I feel she is so ready for the NCSS. I *know* she knows how to sleep for long periods, and I think some gentle help from us to get back to that will do her a lot of good.

Last night was SO MUCH BETTER! I know I'm not supposed to track for another 10 days, but I just had to chime in with the news!

Nurse at 7:00, crib 7:30
10:00 woke, DH rocked back to sleep, crib 10:15
2:30 woke, nurse, crib 2:40
3:15 woke, nurse, 3:30 crib
6:05 woke for the day

I went to bed at 10 as DH was rocking her, so that means I got a whole 4 hours of sleep!!!! I feel so much better this morning!

Keep on keeping on mamas.... how's it going for eveyrone?
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Old 03-27-2005, 01:53 AM
 
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What did you find to be the tip that has helped you and your DC the most?

So far, for us, putting DD down when she is sleepy, not sleeping has made the biggest diference., Before that, I didn't realize she could fall asleep without me being right there. Apparently, neither did she! She is now sleeping longer stretches, likely because she feels safe waking up without me there, knowing that she just has to ask and I will be right there.

Maybe I'm projecting.

Either way, she's sleeping longer.
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Old 03-27-2005, 11:08 AM
 
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What did you find to be the tip that has helped you and your DC the most?

so far, the tips I've taken most regularly are having a comfort object and music that I use every single time, with some cue words, sitting in the same spot, etc. He goes to sleep in a snap! As long as he's actually tired.

Before, I'd just sit with him on the sofa, nursing, putting him down when he lost interest, nursing, putting down, etc etc until he finally slept. But then he'd only get one nap a day, or two-three really short ones. Now, he's sleeping two hour+ naps each day AND 11 hours at night. yay.

still not very good about taking him off before he's asleep - I do it sometimes.
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Old 03-29-2005, 08:37 PM
 
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Greetings, fellow sleepy mamas. I so want to do the NCSS thing. I've read most of the book, done a nap log and a somewhat fuzzy nightwaking log (boy, that's hard to do when you're tired!). My daughter, 4.5 months, pretty much cries herself to sleep every night in her father's arms, and sometimes mine (more and more lately, she wants me-me-me and only me, which gets exhausting).

Re: routine. We do have somewhat of a routine, I think. It just seems like we can do all of the steps of the routine--jammies, feeding, singing, walking, white noise--but when that's done, she's still awake and crying for sometimes another hour and a half or so. She does exhibit sleep cues--yawning, fussiness, losing interest in things, rubbing eyes--but it seems like from there, she could stay awake for another 90 minutes or so. I don't get it.

Like others have said, my daughter also was doing great on sleep for the first few months of her life. Things really seemed to go south when she turned 4 months. She does seem to be showing signs of teething, and we have also been trying to transition her from her co-sleeper bassinet to her crib (right beside our bed). But she won't have it. So, now we're family bedding it (something my hubby isn't wild about), and things are better, but still lots of nightwakings. I'm tired!

Once I can focus my attention a little better on reading and implementing the book, I hope I can return with my own logs & (I hope) progress!

ETA: The Pantley Pull-Off thing may not work for us, as my daughter does not seem to need to suck on something in order to fall asleep. Sometimes she will, other times she won't. I almost wish she would! Might make things easier in some ways...
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Old 03-29-2005, 09:58 PM
 
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Last night ds slept from 12:30am until about 7/7:30am without waking or stirring once!!! (He usually would wake up at 2 or 3am then again at 5 or 6am - so we'll see how tonight goes...)

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Old 03-30-2005, 08:51 AM
 
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I haven't gotten to start or finish the book. My DF's kids are here until Friday. Things get a bit nuts around here when they are here so I am going to wait until next week to start.
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:34 PM
 
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I am really at a bit of a loss as how to proceed with the NCSS. I've read the book, but I guess I did not see a section in it especially for us, which would be something like, "When I put baby down sleepy, instead of sleeping, she screams instantly as though I'm putting her down on a bed of nails." Or, "When I try keywords, back/tummy rubbing, or other gentle ways to help her get back to sleep, baby goes from fussy to outright crying in about 1 second."

See, my baby needs movement (bouncing, walking, etc.) to go to sleep. If I try anything else--even just maybe cutting out the walking and doing just the bouncing--she cries hysterically. I guess I'm feeling like there is just no window of time to help her transition to a different method of falling asleep, because she protests so very very quickly. Does that make sense? Am I missing something in the book? It seems that my baby will accept no substitute, no matter how gently or gradually I do it. Am I not being patient enough?
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartleby
I am really at a bit of a loss as how to proceed with the NCSS. I've read the book, but I guess I did not see a section in it especially for us, which would be something like, "When I put baby down sleepy, instead of sleeping, she screams instantly as though I'm putting her down on a bed of nails." Or, "When I try keywords, back/tummy rubbing, or other gentle ways to help her get back to sleep, baby goes from fussy to outright crying in about 1 second."

See, my baby needs movement (bouncing, walking, etc.) to go to sleep. If I try anything else--even just maybe cutting out the walking and doing just the bouncing--she cries hysterically. I guess I'm feeling like there is just no window of time to help her transition to a different method of falling asleep, because she protests so very very quickly. Does that make sense? Am I missing something in the book? It seems that my baby will accept no substitute, no matter how gently or gradually I do it. Am I not being patient enough?

Your baby is still young to go to sleep on his own! Just keep doing what you're doing...I transitioned by gradually (1 minute a week) trying to decrease the amount of bouncing once Kate had gone to sleep...I eventually got to where I could put her down as soon as she closed her eyes...took 1.5 months because I started with 7 minutes of bouncing after eyes closed. Then I went to 1 minutes less of bouncing before eyes closed, etc. until now I can put her down with eyes open. Took a looonnnggg time, but I started at about the age your dc is...I'm sure there's a less ocd way to do this, but I have to have a clear plan to follow! :LOL
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:03 PM
 
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leomom--Thank you. I have wondered if my daughter is too young for NCSS, but the book does appear to include from birth on up, so I guess I just thought it was worth a try. I like your idea. I can probably do OCD, as long as I'm awake enough to keep track!

I have to say that what is haunting me from the NCSS book is something the author said about trying to transition your child away from needing rocking/bouncing/in-arms to sleep unless you want to still be rocking/bouncing/etc. a two-year-old. Is that really true? If so, then that's what's driving me to try weaning my daughter from needing movement to sleep. Well, that and me being so darn tired all the time!
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:36 PM
 
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personally, I think (and the book says) if you're happy touching your baby to sleep, via nursing or rocking or whatever, you should do that. For that matter, although 2yo sounds so old and so far off, rocking a 2yo to sleep isn't the end of the world either! In the scheme of life, it is NOT that long.

That said, you can break a rocking or nursing to sleep habit at any age, and personally I think it would be waaaay harder to do it and maintain it with a baby under 18 mos. If you have to woh or some other thing, that's one thing, but for my two older boys, night weaning at 2 was not too hard, and from that point on they could go to sleep without nursing or rocking. (DH could sling them to sleep at any age.)

I really love the NCSS book for its recommendations about routine, comfort objects, etc. It has made it way easier for this third baby to get to sleep quickly - he knows what all the "cues" are, so when he's nursing with me on the couch in front of hte tv it's just nursing, but when we're in our spot with his blanket and the lights are low, he closes his eyes. lovely!
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:58 PM
 
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We had/have a movement loving baby here. She has been bounced or rocked to sleep since day one. We are trying to “wean” from this gently and here’s what we are trying: We cuddle and rock Eleanor until she is sleepy but not asleep and then we put her in her crib awake. If she cries or fusses we immediately pick her up and cuddle her but as soon as she settles we try to put her down again and just sing or pat her back. Last night she did need to be picked up several times before she would settle into her crib. I just sang to her, patted her back, and/or kept my hand on her and eventually she figure it out and went to sleep. So here’s how it broke down:

7:30 asleep in crib
woke at 12:20, asleep in crib again at 12:30 or so
woke at 4:00, nursed in my bed (we both fell asleep) then moved to crib at 5:00
up for the day at 7:00

Before it was

7:00 rocked to sleep and in crib at 7:30
woke at 8, 8:40, 9:20, 10:30, 1:10 all rocked back to sleep
woke at 3:45, nursed in my bed, rocked to sleep and then back in crib
up at 7:00

I am shocked by the improvement in the first block of sleeping! It was the many many wakings during the evenings that was so frustrating and motivated us to try to track how she sleeps and make some changes. I really think that our success so far is to do with putting her down before she is asleep. Now she seems to understand that we will come to her if she needs us but that she doesn't really need us to rock her to sleep.

Mamameg – Hey there, email or PM about the zoo, wanna go? Good to hear that you are feeling some hope about sleep! Let's compare notes.
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Old 04-04-2005, 09:38 PM
 
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Hey, that sounds kind of like my little girl! It's encouraging to see the improvement in your daughter's sleep patterns. I have high hopes. I think what deters us is that the second we put her down in her crib when she is drifting off, she wakes right up and cries instantly. I am realizing that change will probably be reeeally gradual! (BTW, I love the name Eleanor. It was #2 on our baby-name list!)

So, I'm truly wondering about what I am hearing from some women in my mothers group. I'm not close with any of them, so I don't feel comfortable asking, but several of them say that they can put their babies down awake and they sleep for seven hours straight! And these are 4-5 months olds we're talking about. Is this really possible with some babies? Or is it likely that they've been sleep trained in some way? I must say that when one woman said that at our last group (right after I'd shared that my babe had woken up like 8 times the night before), I had to suppress shock and envy.
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Old 04-04-2005, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Bartleby, IMHO those moms are full of it. I know a baby who does sleep 12 hours stretches at 7 months, but she also went through about a month of CIO! I'm sure there are exceptions and that some babies can sleep long stretches and be laid down to sleep without any training, but they are the EXCEPTION- not the rule.

Don't worry about the bouncing/rocking thing. Pantely suggests varying the way you put them to sleep: nursing, swinging, bouncing, rocking, etc. I would try that if you're worried. But I think it will all come together.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:49 AM
 
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Hey there! Checking in on our progress. Last night was great!

Asleep in crib, 7:30
woke 8:15 (DH rocked her back down within 10 min or so )
woke 2:45, nurse/rock, back in crib 3:05
woke 6:15, nursed/dozed in bed with me until we got up at 7:20

Our night used ot be very much like Lisa and Elanor's nights, averaging 5-6 wakings per night. UGH. I can hardly believe it has been this easy and that things are SO MUCH BETTER in such a short period of time (approx 3 weeks). I do think that at 10 months, DD was/is really ready for it. I sometimes think, "why did I wait so long to try this?", but then I think that it might not have gone so well if I had tried it earlier. Oh, whatever... I'll never know, I guess.

bartleby - just go slow. Your babe is so young and I can't imagine my DD going for any of this pop-ff or rubbing/patting nonsense when she was just a few months old. Just stick with it, take small steps and I'm sure you will see progress soon. You're doing great!

And Hi LISA! The zoo??? Wiht nugget, too? I'm so in. PM'ing you now.
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:25 AM
 
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Bartleby, IMHO those moms are full of it. I know a baby who does sleep 12 hours stretches at 7 months, but she also went through about a month of CIO! I'm sure there are exceptions and that some babies can sleep long stretches and be laid down to sleep without any training, but they are the EXCEPTION- not the rule.
Uhm yeah. My DD sleeps 6-8 hour stretches almost every night, she's 4 months old and we've never 'sleep trained' or CIO. We have been working with the NCSS, but DD is just a good sleeper. She screams like she's on fire for a good few hours during the day, but she's always slept well.

I'm not "full of it" thanx

SO yes, it is possible and this book is very helpful.
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Old 04-05-2005, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Uhm yeah. My DD sleeps 6-8 hour stretches almost every night, she's 4 months old and we've never 'sleep trained' or CIO. We have been working with the NCSS, but DD is just a good sleeper. She screams like she's on fire for a good few hours during the day, but she's always slept well.
I didn't mean that it isn't possible. I meant that when I'm in a plygroup full of Mamas that say their babies are sleeping through the night, I don't believe it. Maybe I'm wrong. In any case, my comment certainly wasn't meant to offend, it was meant to encourage another Mama and help her to not stress about comparing to other babies.

Sorry if I offended you dianna.
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Old 04-05-2005, 01:37 PM
 
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I didn't mean that it isn't possible. I meant that when I'm in a plygroup full of Mamas that say their babies are sleeping through the night, I don't believe it. Maybe I'm wrong. In any case, my comment certainly wasn't meant to offend, it was meant to encourage another Mama and help her to not stress about comparing to other babies.

Sorry if I offended you dianna.
No worries , I see your point about a room full of moms saying that their babies sleep 8 hours is a *bit* of a stretch, to say the least. I know how hard it is to feel like you have the 'odd baby out' in a moms group. DD has the loudest and most persistent cry most people have ever heard and will go from 0 to meltdown with no warning. All of the other babies have these soft little lamb cries and rarely use them. I have to leave the room with her because you cna't hear yourself talk (or even yell) over top of her ungodly screeches :

Take heart though ladies, the NCSS has worked beautifully for us - with a few tweakings to account for her particular habits. A month ago, she wouldn't sleep longer than 3 hour stretches - it does get better!
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Old 04-05-2005, 02:56 PM
 
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Oh, I also did not mean to imply that all babies who sleep long stretches at night are necessarily sleep trained. Heck, my babe slept pretty well for the first four months of her life; then, it all went downhill.

Dianna, I too have/had the "odd baby out" at groups (aside from the no-sleeping issue). When I went to my first moms group, when my daughter was about two months old, she was the only one who cried for most of it. I was the only mother walking around the room the whole time, trying to calm my baby. I felt like such a loser. (And, of course, I questioned my parenting.)

I'm so glad so many of you are finding success with NCSS. I think we're going to hold off for now on any major attempts to modify sleep patterns--for one, we're going on vacation in a couple of weeks; for another, I think I can deal with the way things are now for a while longer. Thanks, all, for your tips and encouragement!
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