New Study from University of ******* on co-sleeping and the risk of SIDS. - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 04:48 PM
Banned
 
katallen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That a compelling article, it is the same wording that all articles done by people against co-sleeping have written. We had a woman in our La Leche League group that works for Health and Welfare and part of her job is to research research and co-sleeping was one of the things she did research on and she said there none of the studies show that it is dangerous to co-sleep unless you are under the influence of something sedating. Furthermore, to be valid research it must be unbiased and they need to outline how they did the studies, and tell whether the parents regularly expose their children to other things that lead to SIDS, like cigarette smoke even if it is just on people's clothes, pollutants, etc... in addittion to co-sleeping, and they didn't do any of these things. And if you are so against attachment parenting and co-sleeping (which are ancient parenting techniques done in "uncivilized" societies where children have value) why are you on a parenting site that is all for closeness and bonding and being gentle with their children.
katallen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 05:08 PM
 
PatchyMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Viva Las Vegas
Posts: 5,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I thought I read somewhere that the JOP was connected to some major crib manufacturers... making the study a bit biased perhaps?
ETA : nevermind i think im thinking of the JMPA :LOL
PatchyMama is offline  
#33 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 05:52 PM
 
Mommiska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've only skimmed the replies, but I just thought I'd mention this...

I live just south of *******, and I work with moms with drug/alcohol dependencies and their children. Almost all of these moms will co-sleep with their infants - it is part of their culture (mostly because it is easier, which we'd all agree with!).

Almost no one else I know here in this area co-sleeps with their children. And they look at me like I have two heads if it ever comes up that I co-slept with my babies.

Given that background, I would be very interested in/suspicious about the group of parents who were used in this study who were co-sleeping. I'm guessing there is a fairly good chance there were other factors contributing to the cot deaths, rather than the co-sleeping.
Mommiska is offline  
#34 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 06:10 PM
 
DarkHorseMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Viva Nashvegas!
Posts: 4,056
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
So it includes in the 'co-sleeping deaths' babies who were alone in their cribs at time of death but who had "at some point" shared some surface with someone else.
WTF is that supposed to mean?!? :

Idiotic comment

An Official, Approved Signatureâ¢
DarkHorseMama is offline  
#35 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 06:47 PM
 
neverdoingitagain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: mountain/cow country in Canada
Posts: 2,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMoe
50-70% of babies co-sleep either all of the time or sometimes

2,700 babies die each year from SIDS;

90% of SIDS deaths are crib sleeping infants - only 10% of these cases are co-sleeping infants
(That is well over 2000 SIDS deaths per year related to sleeping in a crib)

Japan has the lowest rate of SIDS in the world. Japanese babies routinely share their parent's beds (McKenna 1998)
Actually, its Singapore, I looked it up :LOL (Either way, still not sure why?Does anyone here know much about parenting practices in Singapore?)

I agree with many pp, this article is pretty skimpy. I mean, I had to read it about three times, thinking I missed something, and scanned to the end of the page looking for the rest of the article!
Not going to change what I do anyways.
Tannis
Shekinah 5/10/04(I co-sleep, and LOOK! I'm still alive!)

waiting on the power of the three wolf moon. 
neverdoingitagain is offline  
#36 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 08:31 PM
 
honeysucklemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If it weren't so pathetically sad, it would be funny.

"The researchers found that 90 percent of the babies died while sleeping at night. Only 11 percent of the infants were reported to routinely sleep in their parents' bed. But, 52 percent of the babies had shared a bed, cot,couch or other surface at some point during the day or night that they died."

This is the same researcher who believes, steadfastly, that "germs" in a previously slept on mattress somehow account for some SIDS deaths.

AND of course, the media is all over this touting how it "shows" that co-sleeping is dangerous.

Did you know that you can "prove" statistically that the number of televisions per capita in a country is directly related to the average life expectancy?? We did it as an exercise in our stats class a few years back to explore the fallacy of "causality" in statistical data. It is important to remember that you can't use statistics to "prove" anything. The two factors MAY be related, or may BOTH be related to some other unknown factor.

Remember there are lies, darned lies, and statistics.

;-)

I personally think this researcher is a nut. Sad thing is that we parents who co-sleep are considered to be MORE nuts. Strange but true.

His logic is GREAT for the mattress industry since it suggests we all ought to buy new mattresses for each baby to avoid all those nasty "germs". Or maybe we should just all get rid of all mattresses and sleep on the floor??

How funny that this comes up and up again and again in countries where we are SOOOOO wealthy we can afford separate rooms and beds for our progeny.

I am NOT against crib sleeping... you can sleep with your baby or not and it means nothing to me... but studies like this are simply rediculous, and the fact that the media just LOVES to tout these studies in every press release imaginable and make parents "afraid" makes me want to cry.
honeysucklemama is offline  
#37 of 49 Old 07-11-2005, 08:54 PM
 
honeysucklemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The more I read this, the more it makes me laugh and be angry at the same time. The parents had shared "some other surface" with their infants?? The floor?? The wall? The table? The surface of the Earth? How can he POSSIBLY believe that sharing some surface DURING THE DAY is somehow related at all to SIDS death at some other time. Keep in mind that these babies were NOT sleeping with their parents when they died. The paper does not imply that they were. Just that they had, at SOME point during the day, slept "on some surface" with one of the parents. Oh yeah, and that was only 52%. 48% DIDN'T sleep "on some surface" with a parent. In most small studies such a difference would not be statistically relevant.

There is such a HUGE need for parents to have accurate information on something like SIDS. Why they let studies like this one plug up medical journals I'll never understand.

Gesh. I guess I'll just have to read the darned thing myself now.
honeysucklemama is offline  
#38 of 49 Old 07-12-2005, 05:34 PM
 
dnr3301's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,442
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by neverdoingitagain
Actually, its Singapore, I looked it up :LOL (Either way, still not sure why?Does anyone here know much about parenting practices in Singapore?)

I agree with many pp, this article is pretty skimpy. I mean, I had to read it about three times, thinking I missed something, and scanned to the end of the page looking for the rest of the article!
Not going to change what I do anyways.
Tannis
Shekinah 5/10/04(I co-sleep, and LOOK! I'm still alive!)
Totally OT, but a very good friend of mine from high school is named Shekinah and I never thought I would see another in my life. She'll be so thrilled.

R~mama to 3

dnr3301 is offline  
#39 of 49 Old 07-12-2005, 06:14 PM
 
Trinitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's the press release I found:

===========================================


Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) is the leading reason given for death among infants one month to one year old. Studies have shown that sharing a bed with parents who smoke increases the risk of SIDS. A study in the July issue of The Journal of Pediatrics found a relationship between SIDS and bedsharing among infants less than 11 weeks old, even if parents are non-smokers.




(I-Newswire) - David Tappin, MD, MPH and colleagues from University of ******* and Ecob Consulting evaluated 123 cases of SIDS in Scotland between 1996 and 2000. The parents of these infants provided information about the baby's exposure to smoking, the parents' routine infant-care practices, and the day or night of their infant's death. The researchers found that 90% of the babies died while sleeping at night. Only 11% of the infants were reported to routinely sleep in their parents' bed. 52% of the babies, however, had shared a bed/cot/couch or other surface at some point during the day or night that they died; of these, 87% were found in their parents' beds.

A relationship exists between SIDS, bedsharing, couchsharing, and the location of the infants when they died; this association is magnified when the babies are less than 11 weeks old, regardless of how long they shared a sleep surface, their proximity to parents, their location in the bed, or their exposure to smoke. 72% of the infants found in their parents' bed and 57% of the infants who shared a couch when they died were less than 11 weeks old. In this study, sleeping in a separate room did not increase the risk of SIDS, unless the parents were smokers.

Although SIDS cannot be prevented, parents can take precautions to reduce their infant's risk by stopping smoking during and after pregnancy and placing their infant on his/her back to sleep. Sharing a couch to sleep, sleeping in a room alone, and sleeping in bed with parents are also associated with increased risk. Sleeping between parents may put extra stress on the infant and could position the baby too close to or underneath pillows or blankets. Dr. Tappin reminds caregivers of the advice given by the U.K. Department of Health: "The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a cot [crib] in your room for the first six months."


###
The study is reported in "Bedsharing, roomsharing, and sudden infant death syndrome in Scotland: A case-control study" by David Tappin, MD, MPH, Russell Ecob, SCRT STAT, MSc, and Hazel Brooke, MA. The article appears in The Journal of Pediatrics, Volume 147, Number 1 ( July 2005 ), published by Elsevier.
Trinitty is offline  
#40 of 49 Old 07-12-2005, 09:32 PM
 
woobysma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: over the moon
Posts: 2,997
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's been a long time since I've taken a statistics course, but isn't it misleading to only look at babies who actually died from SIDS in your "sample"?

If you look at 100 babies, 70 who co-sleep exclusively, 10 who co-sleep sometimes, and 20 who always sleep alone........ then 10 die from SIDS, 3 co-sleepers, 4 sometimes co-sleepers, and 3 loners......... you could say that 70% of SIDS deaths happened to babies that co-sleep at least part of the time, more than double the rate of those that never co-slept. BUT, when compared to the entire sample, only 4% of co-sleeping babies died of SIDS, compared to 40% of sometimes co-sleepers and 15% of babies that always slept alone............
so, is this study really telling us anything if it doesn't compare the deaths to the general population?
woobysma is offline  
#41 of 49 Old 07-12-2005, 09:33 PM
 
mandalamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: in the wake of a 6-yr-old tornado
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
here's another place the article's shown up:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161965,00.html

here's the sources from the bottom of the article:
SOURCES: Tappin, D. Pediatrics, July 2005; vol 147: pp 32-37. News release, American Academy of Pediatrics. American Academy of Pediatrics: "Reducing the Risk of SIDS in Childcare."

this is causing a big to-do on a lot of parenting boards, sort of a "see! see! we TOLD you those AP people are crazy" kind of thing.

actually, for the first 11 (or more) weeks of Willow's life, we didn't truly co-sleep, as in, she wasn't beside me in bed as she is now. she was either in her car carrier at first, then in her beside Arm's Reach co-sleeper, and after nursing she fell asleep on my chest while i laid on my back semi-awake, after wrapping her to my body sling-style with a light sheet. we never had an accidents, i was too aware of her. i took no risks at all. yet because of the new "findings," i get accused of not caring about my baby when she was tiny

i mean, how many of you put a newborn beside you without taking some precautions? like using less pillows, or sleeping with only a light sheet, or no sheets at all? i can't think of anyone i know that just plunks a newborn down in a bed without making sure it's safe. and those that are unsafe, are the ones in this study, i think.

treehugger.gif Willow (6) says: "Mother Earth is the mother of all mothers"

angel1.gif Phoenix (6/2011) ♥      print-n-color mandalas >photosmile3.gif

mandalamama is offline  
#42 of 49 Old 07-12-2005, 09:38 PM
 
woobysma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: over the moon
Posts: 2,997
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellybean
i mean, how many of you put a newborn beside you without taking some precautions? like using less pillows, or sleeping with only a light sheet, or no sheets at all? i can't think of anyone i know that just plunks a newborn down in a bed without making sure it's safe. and those that are unsafe, are the ones in this study, i think.
Good point! I'm all for being informed, but unless you know all the details about a situation, it's irresponsible to just take a "statistical fact" and run with it. I made a lot of "modifications" to my bed and the surrounding area before I let Jack sleep there. It's not as though I just plunked him down and fell asleep.
woobysma is offline  
#43 of 49 Old 07-12-2005, 09:48 PM
 
chicagomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: covered in cat hair
Posts: 3,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeysucklemama
The more I read this, the more it makes me laugh and be angry at the same time. The parents had shared "some other surface" with their infants?? The floor?? The wall? The table? The surface of the Earth? How can he POSSIBLY believe that sharing some surface DURING THE DAY is somehow related at all to SIDS death at some other time. Keep in mind that these babies were NOT sleeping with their parents when they died. The paper does not imply that they were. Just that they had, at SOME point during the day, slept "on some surface" with one of the parents.
I wonder if that includes a baby sleeping in your arms.

Of course the implication is that anyone who even *thinks* of napping with their babies is an irresponsible, dangerous person.

Is it okay if I sit next to my kids on the sofa, as long as I promise not to fall asleep?
chicagomom is offline  
#44 of 49 Old 07-13-2005, 01:17 AM
 
morninglark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Of course, the way I understand these studies is that class, education level and substance abuse have a lot to do with co-sleeping deaths, which never seems to be directly adressed in these studies. Or, more, in the reporting of these studies. No newspaper article says, "let's get the word out that co-sleeping is safe with a few simple precautions." I always thought I'd like to do a safe co-sleeping campaign like the "back to sleep" one that shows a bed that is properly prepared.

Another thing that bothers me about this study and the CPSC one from a few years ago --and please clear up the confusion for me if you have any insight--is that they group deaths from suffocation (e.g. smothered by pillows, rollover parents, getting caught between matress and wall, etc) with SIDS which is something different. This would elevate the true co-sleeping "SIDS" numbers.
morninglark is offline  
#45 of 49 Old 07-13-2005, 12:21 PM
 
Bufomander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:
Bufomander is offline  
#46 of 49 Old 07-13-2005, 12:43 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellybean
i mean, how many of you put a newborn beside you without taking some precautions? like using less pillows, or sleeping with only a light sheet, or no sheets at all? i can't think of anyone i know that just plunks a newborn down in a bed without making sure it's safe. and those that are unsafe, are the ones in this study, i think.


I didn't do anything special. Now, I'm in Houston and she was born in August so needless to say there were no heavy blankets out.... but from day one she slept next to me, at boob height, with my usual pillow and my usual covers over her. Honestly I think that the problem is when the babies are rolled over (which I knew wouldn't happen as I am very aware in sleep) Also she was on our very soft futon. AND I let her sleep on her tummy sometimes too.... the horror....

-Angela
alegna is offline  
#47 of 49 Old 07-13-2005, 02:05 PM
 
neptuneaurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I didn't do anything special with my two either. Just my regular pillow and blanket. I can't think of anything that I should have done that would have kept them any safer. When they were newborns I was always hyperaware of them thoughout the night. I don't know how people can sleep when they can't reach out and touch their babies throughout the night. I would feel unsafe if they were anywhere other than in my bed where I can montitor them all night.
neptuneaurora is offline  
#48 of 49 Old 07-14-2005, 03:37 AM
 
honeysucklemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Firstly, I DO want to keep reminding everyone that this reaseacher is the same one that believes that SIDS is caused by GERMS in a mattress.

Uh huh.

But, look here:

"Sleeping between parents may put extra stress on the infant and could position the baby too close to or underneath pillows or blankets."

In other words, this isn't SIDS at all, but suffocation resulting from unsafe co-sleeping. Anyone who regularly co-sleeps knows that baby should not be between the parents, and should not be UNDER blankets and pillows.

Gesh.

How is this SIDS at all and not overlying? And, did they even check to see if the parents had been drinking? If the bed was safe for co-sleeping? If the population was random?

I'm not going to talk too much about the stats until I read the original paper, but the 52% and 48% numbers really strike me. Try this at home. Take a coin and toss it 100 times and count the heads and tails. You won't get exactly 50/50. In fact, you MIGHT even get 52 and 48. Those numbers don't strike me as compelling at all, but rather almost random. In other words, the choice is "shared some surface" vs. "not shared some surface" and the distribution is nearly 50/50 or random.

Someone correct me if they are seeing something I am not here, but this really seems bizarre to me.

I think this researcher has an agenda.
honeysucklemama is offline  
#49 of 49 Old 07-14-2005, 10:06 AM
 
AtThePark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My son was born in Singapore - we lived there for 5 years and came back to the U.S. when Freddie was 11 weeks old.

I always thought the reduction in SIDS may have been environmental since it's a tropical climate and I thought lots of SIDS deaths were in colder months in Western countries.

At any rate many Singaporeans still spend a month after brith in bed on "confinement" - they have a lot of help from maids and relatives and most don't have the space for cribs - if they do have a crib it's never in a separate room becasue space is so limited.

Also interesting a lot of families have live-in maids who often sleep on tiny cots in these itsy closet-rooms off the back porch - if the baby needs something at night they often have the baby sleep with the maid - not "safe" practises by any means.

Anyway - these studies bug me - SIDS is aka "Crib Death" because that's where it usually happens.

Also in Singapore pregnant woman aren't supposed to eat pineapple and babies should be dressed in white for the first few months and the moms can't wash their hair for the month after the babies born. Maybe we should publish a report of such findings and advocte similiar routines for all mothers since it seems to reduce SIDS in Singapore.
AtThePark is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off