Ok I have to draw the line here..this sounds like downright child abuse! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 53 Old 04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
 
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I knew a woman who put her dd in the basement, two floors away to CIO. Needless to say, we no longer have any contact.
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#32 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 12:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APMom98
I knew a woman who put her dd in the basement, two floors away to CIO. Needless to say, we no longer have any contact.
OMG. Ya know, if this is how one must "parent", why HAVE kids??

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#33 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 12:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
Without commenting on parenting techniques, can you say, "Aren't you worried he'll choke or something, and you won't hear him?"
This was my thought too. Even one did support CIO, wouldn't it be important to be listening? I've heard plenty of stories about babies crying until they vomit. This situation sounds very dangerous to me. Poor baby
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#34 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 12:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
Without commenting on parenting techniques, can you say, "Aren't you worried he'll choke or something, and you won't hear him?"
That's a good idea.

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#35 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 02:23 AM
 
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why dont you offer a link to this thread in that discussion. or in a pm and then she can read it!
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#36 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 03:22 AM
 
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I was recently talking to a friend that I know does some mainstream stuff. She was saying that with the baby she is pregnant with she will wait a little longer to CIO, like maybe 5 or 6 months. With her firsrt ds, she let him CIO at less than 3 months. She told me how great it was though that now she can put him down and he just goes to sleep. She then told me the first night was the worst because he cried for over 3 hours before she was finally able to fall asleep. Emma cries for a few minutes and I'm ready to join her. I couldn't possibly listen to it for hours and at just a few months old. They still have that new baby cry. I try to not judge people but this is terrible. I did tell her the things I've read about stress and stress hormones in babies that CIO and how it has negative health effects. She asked me why then do they stop after a couple nights. I just told her I guess it's just so uncomfortable for them to cry so hard and so long and they learn it doesn't do any good, that nobody cares, so they just give up. Kinda breaks their little spirits. Maybe she will reconsider the next time around. Probably not, but you never know. I sometimes envy what she has now-putting her baby down and he just goes to sleep, but I also see a dettachment in him. I don't think it's something I could know about and not at least put in my 2 cents about. You may just tell her about something you've read about the damage of CIO, link her some articles online. I wouldn't straight up say anything about it being abuse (although I don't disagree with you on that point). I'd just give her information on the damage it can cause. And maybe recommend some solutions, like reading NCSS or a similar book.

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#37 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 05:33 AM
 
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I tried CIO with my eldest, out of desperation: he was 8 months old, and refusing to sleep for more than 6 hours in any 24 hour period (generally much less), and we sat with him, refusing to let him out of his cot, hoping and praying that he'd turn into a normal child who slept. Sometimes people make really, really bad judgement calls under pressure: I'm not going to blame a parent for trying it, though I blame the health professional who suggested it to me.
The other thing that nobody tells you about CIO is that it doesn't work. We had 5 bad nights (can't tell you how long now, but it was heartwrenching), and then one night when he went to sleep, and then he learnt to climb out of a cot. That was the point where we put the mattress on the floor and started sleeping in a childproofed cell with the doors locked: when he got tired, he came and crawled into bed with us at 2am, and then woke us up at 5.30 to tell us that the dun was up.
Laughably enough, I now have a child who will just go to sleep when she's tired with absolutely no fuss whatsoever. Hah.

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#38 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 07:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay
That's not in the Sear's book...

Sounds like an extreme "ferberizer" sort of book.
I don't mean to defend Ferber here but I do think we should be accurate about authors of ideas that we don't agree with. Ferber has never written that you should just shut the door and leave your baby to cry. Ferber wrote that you should let the baby cry for a few minutes, go into his room and tell him you are there, pat him on the back but do not pick him up, leave the room after a few minutes, come back after a longer period of time, do the same thing, leave, repeat. Note that Ferber also says that you should not try this method before the baby is six months old.

Ferber does not recommend just shutting the door and letting the baby cry.

Again, I am NOT defending the Ferber method but I do think it is important to be accurate when labelling. NOT EVEN FERBER would recommend what the parents described in the original post did. That is AWFUL.

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#39 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 09:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APMom98
I knew a woman who put her dd in the basement, two floors away to CIO. Needless to say, we no longer have any contact.

...........
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#40 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 05:32 PM
 
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When I was pregnant, I was in a wedding and the woman I was sitting next to was telling me about how she got her kid to sleep through the night. She said that she shut him in his room, went out onto the patio and drank a beer. Then seh went and checked on him. I had already been introduced to AP so I was appalled at the thought, but it just makes me really sad. To top it off, she was breastfeeding so I wonder how many beers it took...
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#41 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 06:22 PM
 
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[QUOTE/] Under 'sleeping problems', one of the books advised putting your child to bed, shutting the door, and not opening it until morning no matter what, unless "blood rolls out from under the door". It was said tongue-in-cheek, of course, but to me that's not very much different than listening to screams roll out from under the door.[/QUOTE]

this sounds suspicously like marc weisbluth and his (ironically titled) book "healthy sleep habits, happy child".
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#42 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 07:08 PM
 
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That is so sad. Everyone told me that was the way to do it with my oldest and so I did at first but that just felt wrong. I am so glad that I learned quickly NOT to do that.
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#43 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp
I don't mean to defend Ferber here but I do think we should be accurate about authors of ideas that we don't agree with.

No worries! However, to clarify, I wasn't attributing the original text to Ferber (the person, who has actually spoken out against some of the more extreme versions of CIO and who mentions co-sleeping as an option in his new book, and who is not personally fond of the term "ferberize").

I was using "ferberize" (lower case, with quotation marks) in it's current incarnation as a verb (sadly, soon to be included in the oxford dictionary of modern slang) meaning to teach a child to sleep using a variety of techniques, including gradually prolonged periods of crying on the part of the child. While the original text doesn't sound very "gradual" to me, I'm sure the book it came from would fall under this general definition.

Thanks for the reminder to speak (or at least type) clearly!

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#44 of 53 Old 04-18-2006, 10:17 PM
 
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It really makes me wonder if the people who do this sort of thing don't have sociopathic tendencies. You would have to have absolutely NO compassion for other human beings to desensitize yourself THAT much.

It just makes me sick that some people think babies aren't human or don't have feelings.
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#45 of 53 Old 04-19-2006, 01:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JenniferH
It really makes me wonder if the people who do this sort of thing don't have sociopathic tendencies. You would have to have absolutely NO compassion for other human beings to desensitize yourself THAT much.
I really don't think that's true. That's what is even more sad/horrifying about things like CIO - it doesn't take a monster to do it. It takes a normal, loving, caring, wants to do what's best mother who doesn't know any better, or who believes that since "everyone else" does it, it must be right. That's all. Not a psychopath, not an unfeeling monster, just. a. mother. Someone who has been trained to believe by her society that babies' cries don't mean anything, that sleeping with her children would kill them, that not training her babies to sleep would damage them, that they can't be harmed by crying, and that she's wrong to want to love them and hold them and keep them close.

It's sad. It's horribly, horribly sad and frightening and disgusting - but I think it's really important to remember that circ'ers, CIO'ers, and the majority of Nazis are/were just ordinary people who are/were, for lack of a better term, brainwashed by their society into doing and believing horrific things.
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#46 of 53 Old 04-19-2006, 02:26 PM
 
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Blech. Stories like that (OP) make my skin crawl. Poor baby.
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#47 of 53 Old 04-19-2006, 03:59 PM
 
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I just wanted to agree with Arwyn's above statement to the millionth degree. I did a lot of things with my first child that I would never dream of doing in a million years now with my second. I didn't use a "method" to get my son to sleep, but I was told over and over again how babies cry, its just what they do, and its good for them, and it doesn't mean anything. If they aren't hungry or dirty and they're crying its not a huge deal. Its wrong, very very very wrong, but that is what many women are told by everyone they trust and believe in (parents, doctors, etc). So many things were wrong with my relationship with my son right from the start because I believed people around me instead of myself, but when you're young and uncertain about your parenting abilities as many first time parents are, you don't always know to listen to yourself.

Knowing what I know now, about CIO and natural childbirth/cesareans and food and school systems and government and religion and... its scary. So many things go on that people around me feel are normal that just horrify me terribly. If I thought about it too much I'd never sleep again.
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#48 of 53 Old 04-23-2006, 03:00 PM
 
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I have already come and admitted a long time ago on here, that I let my oldest CIO. I was not a monster. Years later I sure did feel like one when I realized what I did. I felt guilt. Oh yes you can believe I did! But I was told it was the right thing. And I get guilt today because I DON'T let my other children CIO. All I want to do is be a good mother. So I try what I can to accomplish that.

I will no longer CIO. I stopped that nearly 7 years ago. Just because everyone around me did it, and told me it as right. I didn't know any better! I was only 19 and trying to do my best. And yes, guess what? I did use earplugs at the suggestion of my doctor. My poor baby cried herself to sleep.

But please don't lump people into cold unfeeling, heartless monsters just because they CIO. Its rarely the case! Most are just moms who might not know a different way.

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#49 of 53 Old 04-23-2006, 06:53 PM
 
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I'm glad you listened to your instincts.

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#50 of 53 Old 04-23-2006, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eirual
This is so sad- i was speaking to a mom with much the same idea. How does your baby being sad NOT make you sad??- I'm a wreck if DS is crying abd I can't help him- (only in the car and we have to wait 'til it's safe to pull over).

I simply said, that I can't do that, I keep DS in bed with me and it works great- both he and I are happy and sleep MUCH better.
im known for taking forever to run quick errands bc i cant take ds crying.....
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#51 of 53 Old 04-23-2006, 08:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Arwyn
I really don't think that's true. That's what is even more sad/horrifying about things like CIO - it doesn't take a monster to do it. It takes a normal, loving, caring, wants to do what's best mother who doesn't know any better, or who believes that since "everyone else" does it, it must be right. That's all. Not a psychopath, not an unfeeling monster, just. a. mother. Someone who has been trained to believe by her society that babies' cries don't mean anything, that sleeping with her children would kill them, that not training her babies to sleep would damage them, that they can't be harmed by crying, and that she's wrong to want to love them and hold them and keep them close.

It's sad. It's horribly, horribly sad and frightening and disgusting - but I think it's really important to remember that circ'ers, CIO'ers, and the majority of Nazis are/were just ordinary people who are/were, for lack of a better term, brainwashed by their society into doing and believing horrific things.
:

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#52 of 53 Old 04-24-2006, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SMUM
That is horrid. Some people do have that kind of black humour, where they make things funny when they aren't, though.
Why's it have to be Black Humor?
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#53 of 53 Old 04-24-2006, 03:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sadhitia
Why's it have to be Black Humor?
Well, this doesn't really get into the etymology, but it might be enlightening nonetheless: http://www.bartleby.com/65/bl/blackhum.html
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