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#121 of 210 Old 09-08-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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Amy, can you get DD out of the Snugli without waking her up thoroughly? That might be something to think about...

I seem to have caught DD's cold. boo. :

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#122 of 210 Old 09-08-2006, 09:08 PM
 
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Well, I'm not sure if today's progress will carry over or not, but I'm celebrating the little milestones!!

Right now I'm working on getting her used to sleeping in her crib. We're not ready to stop co-sleeping, but I want her to be able to fall asleep (and fall BACK to sleep) on her own sometimes and not be so dependent on me. So I've been putting her in her crib for all of her naps, and she actually took a long one earlier today...like almost an hour!! Usually she only naps for 30 min. or so. And the coolest thing...I watched her sort of wake up, and she went back to sleep!! We haven't even been working on that!!!

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#123 of 210 Old 09-08-2006, 09:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by anonymous4_20
Amy, where is the only sane place in Ohio? I'm pretty sure it's not Cleveland!
Yellow Springs! No, definitely not Cleveland.

Yay for you and DD, 1babysmom!!

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#124 of 210 Old 09-11-2006, 08:53 AM
 
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Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the past three nights have been miserable. She's gotten back into the routine of waking every ~2 hours and MUST be attached to the breast. This is getting SO hard, I'm just so tired all the time. I feel like I want to cry. I think the part that's so frustrating is that I know that she is capable of better sleep patterns, I just don't know what causes a good night versus a bad one. There is NO relationship between her sleep and her daily naps, activity, bedtime, what we eat, etc. I guess it just be the alignment of the stars or something. Seriously, is this ever going to end??


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#125 of 210 Old 09-11-2006, 02:39 PM
 
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I'm sorry Amy! I know how you feel. I actually HAVE spent a few days bursting into tears randomly because I was so tired.

Can your DH take her for one night so you can get at least one night of real sleep? That made all the difference in the world for me.

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#126 of 210 Old 09-11-2006, 03:15 PM
 
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I think that's what we're going to try next. DH is totally willing - in fact, he's been suggesting this for months - but I am really skeptical because Brynn is just not consoled by him at night; she cries more and more urgently until I come to her rescue. He suggested that we just let her cry and that he'll be with her so it will be OK, but it just seems like CIO to me, whether one of us is there with her or not. If any of you have any tips on how to attempt this, I would love to hear them. I think I will pump some breastmilk and have it ready in a sippy cup, but that's really about all I can do. We probably won't attempt it til this weekend; DH actually has a job and has to be somewhat alert during the day. Maybe Friday night...

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#127 of 210 Old 09-11-2006, 03:45 PM
 
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I don't know if I have any useful tips. Rowan is pretty consolable by either of us - she will actually go to sleep faster for DH using the singing-carrying method than she will for me. That's really the only thing I can suggest - get your DH to sing quietly to her while he carries her around. It works for us, but if Brynn is too addicted to boobies it might not work for you. And sometimes Rowan does cry a little going to sleep when not on the booby - we've just learned the difference between "I wanna be asleep" cry and "I want the booby" cry. Can you nurse her while you're walking around? That might be a good in-between step, get her accustomed to motion while going to sleep. I find it a bit awkward but I have done it on occasion. It's a bit rough on the back so take some ibuprofen ahead of time

At the back of NCSS I did notice that Pantley does recommend crying in-arms as a last-resort thing. And it's NOT the same thing as CIO, but I know it would feel like it for me if Rowan cried for me while DH was holding her (which she doesn't really...) I don't know if I'd do it, honestly. I'm sorry, that's not much help is it?

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#128 of 210 Old 09-11-2006, 07:01 PM
 
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So last night......She slept 3.5 hours and then another 3! Then after that she was up after 2, then every hour after that. She went down at 9:30pm and woke up for the day at 8:45! Usually its 8, so I was grateful for the extra 45!
We've been doing the basinette for the first stretch, and that does seem to help her sleep longer. Now that she's used to sleeping a bit longer in her bed, it seems like she is more able to do it in our bed.

PPO works great for us now too. She's really getting used to it.
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#129 of 210 Old 09-12-2006, 01:39 PM
 
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Last night we put Rowan in her crib after her middle-of-the-night feed (which we think was around 3 but neither of us really checked) and she slept until 7! Yay! Tonight she'll go in her crib right off the bat and we'll see how that goes. Her cold is pretty much finished so she's not waking up because of snuffles anymore.

I have to say, I think the crib is really working out well. I'm happy, but I'm kind of sad I couldn't make cosleeping really work for us. But I guess if the crib is 6 inches from our bed she's still sort of cosleeping, right?

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#130 of 210 Old 09-12-2006, 02:36 PM
 
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I have to say, I think the crib is really working out well. I'm happy, but I'm kind of sad I couldn't make cosleeping really work for us. But I guess if the crib is 6 inches from our bed she's still sort of cosleeping, right?

I've been lurking on this thread, but just wanted to say that not all kids sleep better in the bed with mom and/or dad. That doesn't mean that you are any less an AP family. It's not that you "couldn't make cosleeping work for you", you're truly responding to your baby's individual needs and that's the most precious gift of all. And, it's called "sleep sharing" rather than "bed sharing"!

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#131 of 210 Old 09-12-2006, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ktmama
I have to say, I think the crib is really working out well. I'm happy, but I'm kind of sad I couldn't make cosleeping really work for us. But I guess if the crib is 6 inches from our bed she's still sort of cosleeping, right?

I've been lurking on this thread, but just wanted to say that not all kids sleep better in the bed with mom and/or dad. That doesn't mean that you are any less an AP family. It's not that you "couldn't make cosleeping work for you", you're truly responding to your baby's individual needs and that's the most precious gift of all. And, it's called "sleep sharing" rather than "bed sharing"!
Clap, clap, clap. Soooo true. My baby sleeps better by herself. I was a little sad about just *how* well she slept without me, but that's life.
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#132 of 210 Old 09-12-2006, 11:01 PM
 
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is ncss pretty straight forward?? library doesnt have it and no $$ to buy it.
I don't think I am allowed to mention other web sites but I am in the process of "BIDDING" for mine by the "bay"....
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#133 of 210 Old 09-13-2006, 10:28 AM
 
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Just shoot me now.

Last night we attempted to let DD sleep in our bed with DH and I went to sleep in the guest bedroom. That lasted about 30 minutes. When she woke up, she fussed a little and it sounded like she might go for soothing by Daddy. But no. She cried and cried and I really don't think she would have settled down with him at all, so I went in and picked her up, and she stopped crying *instantly*. It was like a cartoon. We kind of laughed, but also talked about the fact that it's not really a great thing that I am the ONLY person who can soothe and comfort her, especially at night. I think it has to do with the fact that DH travels so much for work, somethimes 2-3 weeks at a time. Also last night, I bathed DD and handed her over to DH for the bedtime routine while I bathed the dog, and he said that DD cried the whole entire time until I came upstairs.

That was all just pre-bedtime! During the night, she did have a couple (2-3?) episodes of cuddling back to sleep rather than nursing, but she also was INCREDIBLY ridiculously restless and fussy, as though something was hurting her. I took off her jammies at one point, but that wasn't it. The only thing I can guess is that maybe that second top tooth is now pushing down, but I don't see it getting ready to break the gums yet. The thing is though, she is *fine* during the day, so I haven't been giving her any Tylenol lately. I did giver her teething tabs last night right at bedtime, and they make zero difference. What a joke!

At this point, I'm so tired and hopeless, there's nothing to do but give in and live with it until we get through it.

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#134 of 210 Old 09-13-2006, 11:56 AM
 
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Amy, I feel your pain. I feel everybody's pain, actually. We seem to be making little to no progress. He's back to sleeping a "long" stretch of 2 or 2 1/2 hours from about 10 to midnight, which is good, I guess. But from 12 to about 4 he's up at least every hour. At 4 I bring him in bed with us, and he sleeps a bit better. We sleep there from 4 to about 8 or 9 and he's usually hooked on the boob the whole time. I keep trying to stay awake enough to do the PPO, but I'm so tired by that point that I don't know if I'm accomplishing it or not. He keeps his head on my arm whether he's hooked on or not, so I can't really tell if he's popping off. He re-hooks maybe 3 times during the morning co-sleeping stretch. There's no teething going on now, although it seems about to start again. I think he just got into a habit of waking because he teethed literally all summer long, and now he can't break his habit. I'm starting to get worried that it's getting so much worse. The last time I saw my pediatrician, he told me that I was creating a monster who would have "permanent sleep issues" because I wasn't letting him CIO. I know he's wrong about the CIO, but I keep hearing that "permanent sleep issues" phrase in my brain! :
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#135 of 210 Old 09-13-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Amanda and Amy, .

Amy - so sorry the DH thing didn't work for you. I think you are probably right about it being because he goes away so often. My DH is around constantly (he is a grad student, just finishing his thesis) and he spends almost as much time with DD as I do, so I think that really helped us.

Amanda - your ped. is a crackpot. You won't create permanent sleep issues by comforting your baby at night. You WILL create permanent sleep issues (nightmares, etc.) by letting your baby CIO. Just remember that

I feel almost bad sharing this, but Rowan slept the whole night in her crib and woke up once, just before 4, for a feed, then went back to sleep until 7:30. She snorted and snuffled and repositioned herself and got herself comfy and not once did she need my help to do it. I hope this is the start of some good nights for us - I'm not silly enough to think that all our sleep issues are "solved" but I think it's a really good start. Of course, I spent the first part of the night waking up at every little twitch and sniffle and expecting her to need to be picked up. Then around 2 am I got smart, stuck my earplugs in and went to sleep until she *really* needed me!

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#136 of 210 Old 09-13-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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Yay Rowan! Yay Sarah!

So what do you attribute the success too? The fact that you have a crib? I feel like I need to go back and read all of your posts and see exactly what y'all did.

We don't have a crib or a co-sleeper though, so our options are kind of limited. We do have a pack'n'play, and I have thought about bringing that upstairs to our room, but I'm just not sure if it would make a difference.

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#137 of 210 Old 09-13-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Here's what we did: I recognized that cosleeping was not working for me, to start. That was a big mental hurdle for me. But it wasn't just the waking, it was the wiggling and whacking that kept me awake even while she was sleeping. So we got a crib from next door (our reservoir of baby-item-goodness) and set it up in our bedroom. First we started putting her down for naps in there and that worked ok. Then we started the classic NCSS thing of not letting her nurse fully to sleep and putting her down when she wasn't fully asleep. That seemed to work ok too. Then we started on the nighttime stuff. We'd put her down - in the crib - and she'd wake up an hour later. I'd rock her back almost to sleep and put her down again. Repeat every hour until 1, when she was actually hungry. I nursed her and then DH took over for me and I took his place on the couch. We did this for a couple of nights with some gradual improvement for the last part of the night, and then Rowan got sick and started waking up even more because of her snotty nose. Then I got sick too and we abandoned the plan altogether and Rowan slept on the couch on DH's lap. He slept sort of sitting up holding her, so her head was a bit elevated and she didn't get as congested. The first night or two she still woke up all the time and I nursed her in the middle of the night when she needed it, but the rest of the time I slept in the bed, snorting myself awake every couple of hours too. But after a couple of nights as Rowan got better she started sleeping longer and longer stretches on DH. He kept doing it because I still felt crappy and needed all the sleep I could get. Then two nights ago she slept through until 5 am on DH's lap without waking. The next night after she nursed at around 3 I put her in the crib and she slept through til 7. The following night (last night) I just put her in the crib to start and she slept fine.

I think what happened is that she got out of the "must booby back to sleep" routine and learned to sleep better. Sleeping on DH's lap probably helped - I worried when we did it that it would set us back a lot but I think it actually helped her learn to go back to sleep, because DH is a pretty sound sleeper and wouldn't have necessarily woken up every time she stirred. Also, she would have borne some of the "responsiblility" for getting herself comfy on DH and so learned to do it that way. I'm just guessing here of course. It's always possible she just sort of grew out of the waking... but I doubt it. Anyway, we didn't exactly follow the NCSS plan, but I guess we did follow the concepts somewhat and it worked. The main thing was getting her out of the "sleep next to mum, booby to sleep" routine. And it would have taken a whoooole lot longer if DH hadn't helped to the extent that he did. He is my hero.

If I were you I would give the crib/playpen a try. And try getting her to sleep nursing AND doing something else as well - either carrying/rocking or maybe singing? She would probably react better to the PPO if there was something else familiar and sleep-associated happening at the same time. It'll probably take a while though.

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#138 of 210 Old 09-13-2006, 03:16 PM
 
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Here I was about ready to throw in the towel, and now I have renewed hope again. (Is that a good or bad thing?) I did go back and read all of your posts, but thanks for posting a summary message. I think one thing you definitely have going for you is that Rowan will sleep with her daddy. I'm still not so sure about this one with Brynn. DH and I talked today about gradually getting her more comfortable with being soothed by him at night, but I think it will be a learning process. Then maybe we can move on to the next step, which would be the pack and play or a crib. Shoot I know so many mamas around here, someone is sure to have a crib or co-sleeper in storage.

I'm on the fence about letting go of the co-sleeping in general. I think a part of me YEARNS to sleep without being touched by anyone (sorry, DH!) but I think there is a part of me that would miss the cuddling. Maybe a good compromise would be to try to get in a good stretch of sleep with Brynn in a crib or co-sleeper, and then have her come to bed with me in the early a.m. or something. Yah, that's assuming she ever sleeps long enough to transition out of the bed at all!!

Anyway, I was noticing the dates on your posts, and it's only been a couple of weeks since you've really been actively working towards this, and that included several days of Rowan being sick! So I think that's great.

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#139 of 210 Old 09-16-2006, 01:59 PM
 
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Hows it going for everyone?

Lily has started a new thing about not going to bed until 12am and then waking like 5 times and screaming every 5 minutes after nursing to sleep. Then finally on about the 6th time she goes down for the night. Tres bizarre, and i can't figure out why.
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#140 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 02:49 AM
 
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Man, I don't know what happened, but we've made a HUGE accomplishment in the past 2 days!! For the past 3 nights and all naps in between, DD has fallen withOUT having to be at the breast!! That's BIG, gals, because before 3 nights ago, she couldn't fall asleep any other way than nursing!!

I guess it all started with DH having to put her to bed 3 nights ago. I wasn't feeling well so he had to take over for a bit, and he just got her to sleep!! He laid in bed with her and rubbed her back and talked to her and she DID fuss a bit, but no "crying", and in a few minutes she was out! So I worked really hard that next day for all her naps to nurse her but take her off the breast to fall asleep (sometimes PPO, sometimes rocking, etc.). Worked each time with minimal to no fussing! And it's continued ever since...even *I* got her to sleep tonight with out nursing her down!!

SO this is a huge step for us! I'm thrilled! Now I don't feel so worried about if anyone else ever has to put her to sleep, or if something were to happen to me it wouldn't be so stressful to DH to have to figure out how to put her down with no crying! (I know, that's silly, but I'm constantly trying to prepare him in case I die or something...is that nuts?!!?)

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#141 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 11:11 AM
 
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I guess I'm just not ready for NCSS. DD is only 6mo, but personally, I like waking up in the middle of the night to nurse. I just don't like doing it more than a few times a night. I don't see her much during the day, and it's a chance for me to spend some time cuddling with her. I know there will be times during her development when she will wake a lot at night, and other times when she will sleep longer. I'd rather be in bed and not have to get up, even if she wakes more times during the night than a baby who sleeps in a crib.

BUT -- she does sleep a lot longer stretches if she doesn't nurse to sleep when she first goes to bed. The routine really helps. When she doesn't get the routine, she wakes more frequently at night. When she does, I can usually count on her sleeping at least 3 and as many as 7 hours before waking to nurse. That's fine with me, for now.
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#142 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 11:16 AM
 
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The patting to sleep is an amazing thing!! I saw them doing it at day care and it works like a charm. I can't believe how quickly she'll go to sleep if I'm patting her, either her front or her back! I wonder what it is?

Also, those sleep cue words really work too! We've been using "ssh shh, sleepy time now" for about a month and when she hears it, she closes her eyes within seconds.
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#143 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 01:22 PM
 
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Woohoo! Congratulations 1babysmom!

The cue words and the routine do really work wonders. We've had some rocky "starts" to our nights lately - some waking up half an hour after she goes to bed, but aside from that we're doing pretty well too.

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#144 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 03:11 PM
 
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Well, the cue words aren't working for us at all. They just seem to wake him up. I'm doing them when Pantley says to--right as he's falling asleep. How does this work for those of you having success?
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#145 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 04:10 PM
 
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I say them when she finishes nursing before going to sleep - she'll try to get off my lap as usual, and I just pull her close and say "ok, we're going sleepies now" and she seems to understand and settles right away and sort of gurgles herself to sleep. A month ago if someone told me that she could do that I would have laughed so hard...

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#146 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 04:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spughy
I say them when she finishes nursing before going to sleep - she'll try to get off my lap as usual, and I just pull her close and say "ok, we're going sleepies now" and she seems to understand and settles right away and sort of gurgles herself to sleep. A month ago if someone told me that she could do that I would have laughed so hard...

I AM laughing that hard! There's no way Lily would do that.

Last night she was up between 3-5am and wanting to play. I think its her trying to crawl phase that is waking her up, because she's trying SO hard, I feel for her. She's also gotten REALLY good at rolling across the whole room the past two weeks, and I think she wakes up wanting to practice that. It was cute she was on the other side of the bed last night and she woke up and wanted to nurse and I looked at her and she smiled and rolled back front back front back front all the way across the bed until she reached me. Cute. Even at 3am.

In the past week we've had some 4-6 hour stretches using the basinette for the first stretch. We put it about 5 feet from our bed. I just feel so bad putting her there and sometimes its hard to sleep for me because I worry about her breathing. I know, a little unfounded SIDS paranoia.

Josh has been putting her to sleep by walking her after I give her a good nurse and that seems to help too.

The problem is, she goes down at 8pm. This has started to become a nap for her because we dont like to go to bed that early. So what happens is she wakes up at 9:15 or so and then wont go back down until like 11:30 and fights sleep. So should I just cave and go to sleep at 8? We did that last night and it worked ok. She went down at 8pm then up at 9pm then slept 9:15-3am. If I put her down to sleep in our room and I don't get to her right when she stirs, I cant get her back down until after 11.

hmm...
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#147 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 06:16 PM
 
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You guys are killing me!! But I am happy for you, and it does give me hope. Brynn's second top tooth is coming in right now, so I'm not really trying anything new. I figure that we'll try to get back into the swing in a week or so after it cuts through the gums. It's really horrible right now though, I will say that. DH has been sleeping in the guest bed frequently this week, and I'm just trying to hang in there. :

Ever-evolving mama to my beautiful Brynn, and my little dimple-face Noah .
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#148 of 210 Old 09-17-2006, 07:04 PM
 
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Well, the cue words aren't working for us at all. They just seem to wake him up. I'm doing them when Pantley says to--right as he's falling asleep. How does this work for those of you having success?
DD does the same, so we have to stick with "Shhhhh". Actual words all mean "playtime" to her.

And FWIW, DD isn't cutting any teeth yet, so I'm probably just getting lucky atm. Teething will probably start us all over again.

Has anyone NOT had difficult nights during teething?

Me (27) DH (30)...9 Years

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#149 of 210 Old 09-19-2006, 10:41 PM
 
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Now I don't feel so worried about if anyone else ever has to put her to sleep, or if something were to happen to me it wouldn't be so stressful to DH to have to figure out how to put her down with no crying! (I know, that's silly, but I'm constantly trying to prepare him in case I die or something...is that nuts?!!?)

I thought I was the only one with those secret thoughts! I always show him where her current batch of clothes that fit are, how they are arranged, how to give her Tylenol and how much, etc. because I think, what if something happened? Would he know what to do? I thought I was kind of freaky for thinking that, so it makes me feel better that you do too.

Anyway, tonight was a breakthrough for us: Brynn went to sleep without nursing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

: :

It wasn't exactly *easy*, but it wasn't really all that bad, either. We did the bath, then jammies, then nursed in her room, and then went into our bed and read a story. She nursed again, but I did the PPO and she fussed, so I let her latch back on, and within about a minute, so popped herself off and rolled over. Then she kind of tossed around for a minute, at which point I would have usually just given her the breast again, but I decided to wait it out. She was sort of half-awake and chattering to herself quietly, kind of crawling around and laying on me which was actually kind of cute. Then DH got home from a 3-day trip and she of course wanted to play with him, but he just layed quietly in bed with us, using the new cue words, "Close your eyes, it's time for sleep now," and she continued to try to entice him to play, and then showered him with kisses and cuddles. It was wonderful. Anyway, we all just layed there for about 30 minutes while she wound herself down. I could see that she was really ready for sleep, and then she began feeling really uncomfortable with the sensation of sleepiness without nipple, so she began protesting pretty convincingly. We held in there; DH walked her around the room and sang to her, and then she got back into bed and cuddled on me, then fussed again, and then I cuddled her and sang to her while she sucked on/chewed her fingers, and then she fell asleep!!

I'm not expecting this to translate into a full night of sleep or anything, but it feels good to know it can happen, and it was also really great that DH was right there with me during the whole thing. It feels like maybe we're going to get through this afterall.

(Remind me I said that when things are terrible again at some point!)

Ever-evolving mama to my beautiful Brynn, and my little dimple-face Noah .
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#150 of 210 Old 09-19-2006, 10:48 PM
 
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whoo hoo! congratulations!

Lily has been so so lately. She's good going to sleep, its just the waking up : If I put her in the basinette, I can get a good 4 hour stretch out of her sometimes, even 5 if I'm lucky, but after that she wakes up like every 15 minutes!! I don't know WHY!!! ahhh
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