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#1 of 210 Old 08-04-2006, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This thread is for the sleep-dperived mamas and papas who are using the gentle method of NCSS to help their baby sleep better throughout the night.



Our sitter recommended we give DD a bath and milk so she'd sleep better. So we gave her a warm bath and let her play in the water and get some energy out. Then -- as soon as possible afterwards -- I got her on the breast.

It all looks so good on paper.

The electricity went out and we're having a heat wave. Add my body to the baby's body in a room with closed windows and you can see how easy it is to have a baby that won't go to sleep.

One hour later...

We finally took her into the basement. We're all sleeping down there in the cool air. The elec came back on, but we're already set up down there now.

Guess what? She's woken a lot. Now, I think she's too cold. So I put some socks and pants on her. We'll see what happens.

I did feel a small victory that I could get her back down with some rocking and loud humming. We do humming in the car when she is tired and cries and it works there so why shouldn't it work at home? I was able to rock her and get her mostly back to sleep and then sloooooooooowly put her on her back in the pack and play and, when she stirred, start to hum and she eventually went out.

And then she was up again in 39 minutes.

Sigh.

I'm feeling bummed. And now I'm really wired and can't sleep because I'm so tired.
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#2 of 210 Old 08-04-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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is ncss pretty straight forward?? library doesnt have it and no $$ to buy it.
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#3 of 210 Old 08-04-2006, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Can you get it through inter-library loan? When I lived in a small town with a terrible library, I ordered books from other libraries from all over the country.
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#4 of 210 Old 08-04-2006, 10:26 AM
 
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I checked the interlibrary loan and apparently nobody has it? Strange.
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#5 of 210 Old 08-04-2006, 09:49 PM
 
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We're doing NCSS here too, but only a wee bit. Leah is 3 months old, so it's nothing drastic, but we're trying to dull her sucking to sleep association. She wakes up every 45 minutes to an hour during the night and needs to nurse to go back to sleep. It's that fluttery comfort nursing, and I don't think she's taking much milk. But once her REM cycle is complete, and she wakes up a tad, she fusses to nurse.

I'm going back to work in 2 weeks, and would love for her to sleep for a few hours in a row at night.

So we're doing the "gentle removal" bit. Tough. It means I have to wake up much more than I used to. I hope I'm putting money in the bank, here, because I won't be able to do this once work starts...
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#6 of 210 Old 08-05-2006, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Leah,

When my babe was about 3-4 months, I started doing a bedtime routine. We did certain things before the night sleep to signify it was night.

Also, we had DD in the cosleeper right near me. When I nursed she went back in there -- I was worried about rolling over on her -- and was pleasantly surprised to discover she'd sleep 5-7 hrs when she wasn't right next to me. If your baby's weight gain is good, then I don't think sleeping 5 hours would be a problem.

For my baby, weight gain WAS an issue. So I had to forego sleep to nurse all night and then that created the sleep issuse we have to day (I am fairly certain).

Anyhoo, my baby is a year. I've been sleep deprived for a year while working FT and am at a breaking pt -- and need sleep.

We're on day 2 of NCSS and noticing MAJOR improvements!!

And maybe some of the improvement has to do with our own learning...DH used to pick the baby up. This time he didn't and she settled back down in 2 min! So she is getting better and longer sleep. Before, I guess he was just waking her up more.
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#7 of 210 Old 08-05-2006, 12:07 PM
 
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I'm so glad you're seeing improvement!!

Thanks for the advice re: Leah. She doesn't settle well when she's not next to me. Sometimes I can get her down to sleep and then move her into the cosleeper, but in the middle of the night I'm just to tired to stay awake that long. It's such a catch 22. I'm too tired to do what I need to do to get more sleep!
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#8 of 210 Old 08-05-2006, 10:23 PM
 
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I'll be joining y'all. DD is 8 months old and has never been a sound sleeper. I think she slept maybe a 4-hour stretch one or two nights (like, in her life), but most nights she wakes every 2 hours or so just to comfort nurse herself back to sleep. I used to think she would grow out of it, but I'm really starting to think now that maybe there is something else I should try. I requested the book from another library and am hoping to get it early in the week. I'm totally keeping my fingers crossed. I'm not hoping for a miracle; even a 5-hour stretch would be heavenly.

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#9 of 210 Old 08-05-2006, 11:10 PM
 
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I'm so glad to see this support thread! We started a week ago and have been struggling (explained in a different post). We've not been as consistent as we need to be - that part is the hardest for us.

What are your nap routines? He sleeps so poorly when he's napping that our routine consists of plunking him in my sling and wearing him as he naps. Not that I mind...I'm forced to sit for an hour or so and I'm close to my babe. But that doesn't go very far in teaching him to sleep better on his own.
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#10 of 210 Old 08-06-2006, 01:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Stanswife--What sling do you use? My friend uses a sling to his babe to sleep and then gently undoes the sling and leaves it wrapped around the baby like a blanket. He uses the OTSBH, which is easy to slip off without waking the baby.

For those of you who do not have the book yet, here are excerpts from it:

http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/con...ntingsleep.htm

Mikani -- LOL I thought YOU were Leah. I didn't realize she was your dd. See how tired I am!!

Tonight, the baby did a 3-hour stretch! I am learning a lot by keeping the nap logs. For instance, I learned that she was not sleeping as much at night as I thought she was.

RE: Naps: We don't do our whole routine for naps. For naps, I wait for sleepy signs and then get her into the bedroom asap. We do not delay any longer or else we miss the window and she gets revved up from being tired. *Usually* she does pretty well with the naps. Today was bad. A poopy diaper woke her up. Can't say I blame her for that!
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#11 of 210 Old 08-06-2006, 12:54 PM
 
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DD naps really well, which I guess is what allows her to not sleep well at night! She's on a pretty regular routine; nap around 10:00am for 60-90 minutes, and then another nap around 4:00pm for 60-90 minutes, sometimes even 2 hours. We have an Amby though, which I know helps her sleep soundly for naps. I've tried it for night-time sleeping, but she wakes up whenever she tries to roll over in it. :

Last night she slept for 3 1/2 hours straight, which was really nice. I'm hoping with a little help, I can figure out how to ease her into even longer stretches at night.

I can't wait to read it so I will have more to contribute!

Ever-evolving mama to my beautiful Brynn, and my little dimple-face Noah .
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#12 of 210 Old 08-06-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henhao
Stanswife--What sling do you use? My friend uses a sling to his babe to sleep and then gently undoes the sling and leaves it wrapped around the baby like a blanket. He uses the OTSBH, which is easy to slip off without waking the baby.
Henhao, I use a Heavenly Bundle sling with DS in the cradle carry. He's almost 19 pounds though, so when he outgrows the cradle carry in that one, I'll switch to my husband's size L New Native. The only problem with pouch slings is that I can't really take him off without waking him up.

Yeah for your progress! And a few hours sleep.
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#13 of 210 Old 08-06-2006, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Stanswife--Oh, well I hope y'all find something that works for you both. =)

I think we're in nap transition here -- and teething heck -- baby wouldn't go to sleep...then DUH I realized she probably needed some teething tablets. Meanwhile an hour went by.

She skipped her afternoon nap and then fell asleep at the pool! She totally shocked me by wanting to go to sleep at 6:30 tonight. So she fell asleep there and then, when we got home, she would not go to sleep easily. Sigh. By keeping the logs, I realize now that when she skips an afternoon nap that she might want to go to bed earlier.

This transition thing is tricky.

We've spent 45 min trying to get her down. She is so tired...she just won't go...My turn to relieve DH is coming up so gotta dash.
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#14 of 210 Old 08-07-2006, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It works! She slept the longest stretches tonight. :

now if I could just get to sleep. i'm so excited i can't sleep.
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#15 of 210 Old 08-07-2006, 10:20 AM
 
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Hoorah Henhao!!! Sleep is so wonderful...

Nap schedule? What's that?

The last few weeks have been tough for naps, and I finally figured out what it was. Up to that point, Leah's naps and her nursing were synchronized. She would nurse to sleep for every nap. Then at 3 months, she started being awake for longer stretches, and so didn't nurse down, but had no other way of falling asleep.

Much screeching, much angst.

Now that I know what's going on, I can look for her sleepy signs and put her down when I first see them. But for a while, there, it was really rough.
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#16 of 210 Old 08-07-2006, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mikani--Wow, sometimes just having awareness helps to solve a problem. You just proved it!
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#17 of 210 Old 08-07-2006, 05:42 PM
 
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Hi! I'll join in, too!

DS is 3 mos this week, and I read NCSS about a month ago. We have been gradually implementing some of her ideas, but not expecting DS to sleep all night for a bit! We have a very effective bedtime routine - we all go for a walk when DH gets home, DS rides in the Moby wrap facing out and loves to look at the trees. When we get home, he takes a bath (freaks out while getting dried off) and then he nurses until he falls asleep. At some point while he's nursing, he takes a 5 minute break, so I have been swaddling him then. The past two nights he has slept a 5 3/4 hour stretch! His max before this was 5 hours, and he had only done that once after crying for several hours before bed. (That's about the time when we started realizing he was associating a bath with going to bed and that we didn't have wait and give him a bath as a last resort at 11 PM - ) We have been working on shifting his bedtime since he was getting tired early and he had been staying up late. We have gone from 10 or 11 to 8PM and tried 7PM for the first time last night. We have even gotten to a point where we can leave him with a monitor so that I can eat dinner after he has gone to bed. It makes me nervous leaving him alone, though, so I'm always glad to get back in there with him. He sleeps in his cosleeper sometimes (when he's being fidgety), but mostly in bed with us. I do want to help him get used to sleeping without another person next to him as long as he is open to it, though.

Our biggest problem now is naps. He shows signs of tiredness, then I work on getting him to sleep and fairly often he wakes up 10-15 minutes later. Some days he will nap great, for 1-2 hours in the morning, then I have trouble in the afternoon. Other days, he won't even get the morning nap. I feel like I spend the whole day trying to get him to sleep, and if he doesn't he gets super crabby at about 4 PM. So, he definitely needs the naps! One thing he has responded to is being swaddled in his swing with the Princess Bride theme playing in the background on auto repeat.

I am not doing the nipple pull-out, since we had an overproduction/foremilk-hindmilk imbalance problem, so I want him to get as much hindmilk as possible so that we don't have that happen again. He nurses for about 30-45 minutes right before bed, and I'm OK with him falling asleep there, especially since he has fallen asleep on his own sometimes for naps or after he wakes up in the middle of the night. He tends to pop off with a flourish when he's done, anyways.

He got 12 hours total of sleep when I kept track. I'm hoping that if we get the naps figured out he will get closer to the recommended 15. I think that longer sleep stretches at night will REALLY help! *fingers crossed*

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#18 of 210 Old 08-07-2006, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'lee
I am not doing the nipple pull-out, since we had an overproduction/foremilk-hindmilk imbalance problem, so I want him to get as much hindmilk as possible so that we don't have that happen again. He nurses for about 30-45 minutes right before bed, and I'm OK with him falling asleep there, especially since he has fallen asleep on his own sometimes for naps or after he wakes up in the middle of the night. He tends to pop off with a flourish when he's done, anyways.
Welcome! At 3 months, I think you just do whatever works since you're still kind of in the 4th trimester...If falling asleep at the boob works for naps, do it! I had many a lovely time reading/knitting/spacing out/napping/watching movies while DD slept at my breast.

Your routine sounds like it's working for all of you and you all get to spend time on the walk reconnecting at the end of the day and getting some exercise. What a plan!
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#19 of 210 Old 08-10-2006, 03:40 PM
 
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I posted in another thread that DS is making progress, but thought I'd flesh it out here. He slept for 2 hours 45 minutes straight last night and has been asleep now for an hour 10 minutes. AMAZING. He NEVER naps, unless I intervene to lengthen it. I'm still tired, but hope to catch up from the last two weeks this weekend.

Also, don't know if this will continue, but I had been slinging him to get him to sleep and thought he couldn't/wouldn't go to sleep any other way. Well, my sling kills my back after a couple hours, so I decided to hold and dance with him. Worked like a charm and much quicker. Huh!
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#20 of 210 Old 08-10-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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Hi, joining ya'll w/ my 14 mo. old. I have a couple of questions for anyone who can help...Reading NCSS (for Toddlers but same info) I couldn't figure out if she was implying "scheduling' naps, like "OK, it's 2:30, time to nap." Reading these responses it sounds like everyone is following their dc's cues. Is that right? Or is anyone saying, "ok, it's 2:30, let's go lie in bed and hope for the best"?

Also, Henhao and anyone else w/ a 1+ yr old, you don't nurse to sleep? Has it always been that way? We've nursed to sleep every single time we've been at home, naps and nighttime for 14 months and that association is HUGE. The PPO just isn't cutting it. I'm really at a loss at how to change this--if he manages to fall asleep in the stroller or whatever, when we lay him in the bed (we cosleep) he wakes up and wants the boob or else! I'm thinking of trying Jay Gordon's plan for night weaning but that still won't help *getting* him to sleep.
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#21 of 210 Old 08-10-2006, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by newbymom05
Hi, joining ya'll w/ my 14 mo. old. I have a couple of questions for anyone who can help...Reading NCSS (for Toddlers but same info) I couldn't figure out if she was implying "scheduling' naps, like "OK, it's 2:30, time to nap." Reading these responses it sounds like everyone is following their dc's cues. Is that right? Or is anyone saying, "ok, it's 2:30, let's go lie in bed and hope for the best"?
Right now I just watch my DS and when he gets tired, we dance or sling. Initially we'd hoped to schedule his naps, but I never know when he's going to wake up in the morning. It could be 5, 7, 8, 9 or 10, which of course determines his nap schedule. I *think* he's starting to regulate himself, but that remains to be seen and could change at any time.
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#22 of 210 Old 08-11-2006, 10:10 AM
 
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Thanks, Stanswife. This morning, the most urgent, horrible problem is breaking the nursing-to-sleep association. I swear he must be listening in to DH and my plans because he nursed like a freakin' demon ALL NIGHT LONG and wouldn't let go of the nip for anything. And of course he's up all perky, the crazy baby. I swear, if DH adn I don't figure out how to get more than 2 hrs. of sleep soon...:
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#23 of 210 Old 08-11-2006, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Babies have some natural sleep rhythms. I don't think Pantley means an enforced schedule. Instead, she advises to follow your baby's sleep cues. When they start to appear tired, melatonin is circulating in their body and helping them to relax. That is a great time to help them sleep...Being in a dark room helps, too.

My baby goes down for the night about 30 min after getting in the dark bedroom.

If we miss that window, she gets riled up and will be up for another few hours. That's because cortisol starts circulating through their system if they do not go to sleep when tired.

My nearly 1 year old gets sleep about 10 am and 2:30 pm. A lot of 1 year olds get sleepy about the same times. My baby goes to sleep about 8:30 ad wakes about 6:30 or 7:30 (with current wake ups during that time, which I am working on!).

Eventually, most babies drop that second nap (usually the am nap) and keep the second nap (in the afternoon) for another 1-2 years.

I am not sure how to progress with NCSS. Several things have gotten better...it takes less time to put her down for the night and she sleeps an hour more per stretch than when we started...but DH still is walking her at a lot of the wakeups and now she expects walking. That's great for him if he can sleep while walking LOL but I don't think either of us will want to walk a 30-lb girl at 1 am. So we need to stop that.
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#24 of 210 Old 08-11-2006, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanswife
I posted in another thread that DS is making progress, but thought I'd flesh it out here. He slept for 2 hours 45 minutes straight last night and has been asleep now for an hour 10 minutes. AMAZING. He NEVER naps, unless I intervene to lengthen it. I'm still tired, but hope to catch up from the last two weeks this weekend.

Also, don't know if this will continue, but I had been slinging him to get him to sleep and thought he couldn't/wouldn't go to sleep any other way. Well, my sling kills my back after a couple hours, so I decided to hold and dance with him. Worked like a charm and much quicker. Huh!
GREAT NEWS!

Isn't it amazing how we assume something won't work and then we have to change how we do things and it DOES work. That has happened to me with DD several times!

DD slept for 3 hours the other night. Woo-hoo!
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#25 of 210 Old 08-11-2006, 06:28 PM
 
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this is so great to have this thread!!

our 9 mos old dd has never been a sound sleeper ... actually when she was about 4-5 mos she slept her best and we even had ONE 8 hr stretch!!:
i was in shock!

but it went downhill from there! i totally understand and get that babies wake during the night and adults sleep differently but awaking every hour-2 is draining me. and right now i'm trying to heal two very badly injured nipples from a bite (she hasn't done it again but they are healing very slowly especially with all the night nursing i do )

i'm not even looking for an all night sleeper and i actually usually enjoy out quiet nt nursing (well not at the moment cuz of my nips!) but i know that she can't be hungry every hour so there must be a way to settle her differently, right? anyway, that's why i bought the NCSS but it hasn't worked yet. the only way she settles back down is bf and sometimes she's only on for 2 min!

ahh...i'm so tired. so it'ss nice to have this support! and if anyone else has been bit and knows of a way to heal faster, please let me know. i'm trying everything!!!

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#26 of 210 Old 08-11-2006, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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andimama, have you tried lansinoh? how about aquaphor?

as soon as dd stopped nursing, i applied aquaphor so that it would soak in before she was ready to nurse again. it really helped me with a recent torn up nipple.

could your partner help you get some naps so that you have the energy to do ncss? it takes some energy to do it right...i wish it didn't!

right now, we have done some backsliding as dd is quite ill. she has a fever. we've given her tylenol. now she's prob so tired -- from lack of naps -- and so hungry from eating so little that she's just a mess. we're taking her to the doc in the am; we were not able to get her into the doc this afternoon; it looked like her fever was gone and then it came back right around the time the doc closed the office.
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#27 of 210 Old 08-11-2006, 09:35 PM
 
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yup ... i'm using lansinoh. stjohns wort oil, and nursing in different positions is helping as well. the wounds keep getting reopened every time we nurse so it's been a long haul. once they heal i'll be able to really put more energy into ncss. it seems like a lot of parents have had success with it!

thanks!! and hope your babe feels well soon.

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#28 of 210 Old 08-12-2006, 02:27 AM
 
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I'd like to join this too. I have a 19.5 month old dd and we're still having enormous sleep problems. I'm going back to work (part-time) in a few weeks, and I'm freaking out a little because nights have been so miserable lately. So I won't have to retype it, this is a link to my other sleeping thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=500090

I'd like to sit down with dh tomorrow on his day off and dust of the NCSS and try it again. If we do get a plan going, I'd really like to be in on this thread and the support. Being a sleep deprived mama (or dad!) is tough.
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#29 of 210 Old 08-12-2006, 10:35 AM
 
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I'm all for the NCSS--been half-a@@ed trying it since birth, lol, but now we're considering adding the Jay Gordon 10 day plan. Anyone else tried this? Last night we did a combo w/ the PPO and in arms...you know. Has the Gordon method worked for anyone in combo/addition to the NCSS?

Also, does anyone else's child FREAK OUT when you do the PPO? It seems very counter-productive--he's almost asleep but then he's wide awake and furious. Maybe I need to reread but it seems to me like Coleton took it a lot better than my bubs.
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#30 of 210 Old 08-12-2006, 01:17 PM
 
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I haven't read Jay Gordon, but I'm thinking about checking it out at the library today! Thanks for the idea.
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