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#91 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I mean no snarkiness in this question but what is the difference between sidecarring a crib, putting a matress on thefloor besiide the bed(both which we can't do anyways), or a nestish thing in the middle of the bed
and
having her in the cradle right at the foot of the bed?

I sheepishly don't understand the difference. Even if I put the cradle next to the bed you would probably not acept that as co-sleeping either.:
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#92 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 09:52 PM
 
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imho, it's all cosleeping. but the whole side cradle thing doesn't seem to be working for you. you have to get your sleep, because you woh, and when you find a way to sleep with baby right next to you in bed with you, you can literally whip your boob out go back to sleep. But if you have babe in a the cradle, you have to lift her up, put her in bed, then put her back, that's keeping you awake. Mom's who have successfully coslept, literally cannot tell you how many times their babies nurse at night. They become so efficient at it nursing that they no longer even wake up to do it.

Some moms get just as good at this with babe in a side car/bed/cradle. Some moms do better with a side car with the mattress on the same level with the bed.

The very fact that you are here, complaining of not getting enough sleep would indicate that the whole having to wake up, put babe into the bed, thing is not working well for you personally, because if it was, you would still be getting enough sleep. My babe spent some time in a side car situation, and often times he ended up in the bed with us, and I don't remember how he got there, never realized he was there till first thing in the morning. My husband says I woke up and put him into the bed with us...I was still sleep, and I don't remember. Picking my baby up from the side car and putting him into the bed with us was not a hinderance to me getting enough sleep.

But it seems to be a hinderance to you personally getting enough sleep, that's why I was wondering if you would get more sleep if babe was in the bed with you. When it comes to cosleeping, and making sure you get enough sleep at night, and making sure babe is nursing enough, what works for one mom may not work for another. The side car arrangement worked well for me for quite some time,...it doesn't seem to be working for you.
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#93 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama View Post
I just don't picture a 5m baby not night nursing
Though it's off-topic, I just wanted to reiterate (for the millionth time! ) that, yes, there are some babes who sleep through the night with absolutely no encouragement from mama and papa. Dd started sleeping through the night, all on her own, at around 2 months old (and after about a month, she was only waking once to nurse). Sometimes--maybe once a week or so? maybe a couple of days in a row here and there?--she wakes in the night to nurse and I always feed her if she wants it. B/c we knew she would be EBF, we expected and were prepared for her to wake frequently--she just didn't, not at 3 months, not at 5 months, not now. I have no idea why. She's gigantic and I have a great milk supply, so it hasn't caused any problems.

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I mean no snarkiness in this question but what is the difference between sidecarring a crib, putting a matress on thefloor besiide the bed(both which we can't do anyways), or a nestish thing in the middle of the bed and
having her in the cradle right at the foot of the bed?
I sheepishly don't understand the difference. Even if I put the cradle next to the bed you would probably not acept that as co-sleeping either.:
Honestly, does it matter if anyone "accepts" it as co-sleeping? We had dd in a co-sleeper at first, and now she sleeps in a crib next to our bed. I would love to co-sleep but it didn't work for us at all. We were all exhausted and we are all much, much happier with her next to us but not actually in the bed. Although she is right where we can touch her and respond to her immediately, I don't personally consider this "co-sleeping" (though some people on MDC have told me they do). That's okay with me. I know that I am meeting her needs, however it's labeled.
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#94 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 10:10 PM
 
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Though it's off-topic, I just wanted to reiterate (for the millionth time! ) that, yes, there are some babes who sleep through the night with absolutely no encouragement from mama and papa. Dd started sleeping through the night, all on her own, at around 2 months old (and after about a month, she was only waking once to nurse). Sometimes--maybe once a week or so? maybe a couple of days in a row here and there?--she wakes in the night to nurse and I always feed her if she wants it. B/c we knew she would be EBF, we expected and were prepared for her to wake frequently--she just didn't, not at 3 months, not at 5 months, not now. I have no idea why. She's gigantic and I have a great milk supply, so it hasn't caused any problems.

I agree that it can happen naturally, however, imho, it's not a good idea to enforce it, or a restricted feeding schedule on a babe who desires and needs to nurse often. But if it happens naturally, that's totally different.
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#95 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 10:16 PM
 
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If your baby is sick, I hope you'll consider putting this plan on hold and nursing her as often as she's willing to help her body heal.

I'm also intriqued by the idea that you weren't meeting her other needs and just offering the breast to "take the edge off" and pacify her. I bet if she woke up and started fussing, and you changed her diaper and then offered the breast, she'd still take it. I wouldn't automatically assume that just because she has another need, she doesn't need nighttime nursing as well. Night milk has a different composition than day milk, and meets different needs in a baby.

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#96 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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See that's the thing, we were having a great week, not just one great night where she only woke once. All the changes that happened to me and DH took place because of many good nights. We can live on little sleep so long as the sleep we get is qualiy sleep. We could sleep 10hours with DD in the bed and not having to get up and still be exhausted the next day. Getting up and loseing sleep isn't a problem having crappy sleep is. Me and DH sleep so Bad with DD in the bed if we sleep at all. Some nights DH wakes himself up as he goes to roll on top of DD then freaksout afterwards because he almost did. The way I see it at least he always wakes up, but he gets so paranoid. And as I've mentioned it is physically a pain. Plus I'm not someone who can sleep through nursing, doze yes, but when she does nurse at night I always wake up for a while aand fall asleep when she is just keeping my nip in her mouth and nort sucking, but that part I'm up for.
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#97 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 10:26 PM
 
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#98 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If your baby is sick, I hope you'll consider putting this plan on hold and nursing her as often as she's willing to help her body heal.

I'm also intriqued by the idea that you weren't meeting her other needs and just offering the breast to "take the edge off" and pacify her. I bet if she woke up and started fussing, and you changed her diaper and then offered the breast, she'd still take it. I wouldn't automatically assume that just because she has another need, she doesn't need nighttime nursing as well. Night milk has a different composition than day milk, and meets different needs in a baby.
Oh she's in the bed with us now till she's better for sure. She's sick, I'll let her in my bed to sleep with me if she's and adult and sick, we might aswell cuddle sinse we are miserable.
and actually I have offered her the breast after burping and changing her, sometime she refuses it other times she has a snack while I stand there then put her backin the cradle, and if she's really hungry I will take her to bed. I don't denie her. I've just been making sure that's what she wants.
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#99 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 11:06 PM
 
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There is no such thing. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't take it. You can't make them, and you can't abuse it.
That.
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#100 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 11:15 PM
 
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Though it's off-topic, I just wanted to reiterate (for the millionth time! ) that, yes, there are some babes who sleep through the night with absolutely no encouragement from mama and papa. Dd started sleeping through the night, all on her own, at around 2 months old (and after about a month, she was only waking once to nurse). Sometimes--maybe once a week or so? maybe a couple of days in a row here and there?--she wakes in the night to nurse and I always feed her if she wants it. B/c we knew she would be EBF, we expected and were prepared for her to wake frequently--she just didn't, not at 3 months, not at 5 months, not now. I have no idea why. She's gigantic and I have a great milk supply, so it hasn't caused any problems..

Ah, I am a mother to a child who is not a huge fan of sleep!!
I know, some do naturally sleep throught the night. I wasn't really referring to a healthy baby doing it naturally. But I know sometimes peds will tell Moms to stop nursing them at night, and I don't think that's right.
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#101 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah, I am a mother to a child who is not a huge fan of sleep!!
I know, some do naturally sleep throught the night. I wasn't really referring to a healthy baby doing it naturally. But I know sometimes peds will tell Moms to stop nursing them at night, and I don't think that's right.
Neither do I. If a babe is hungry he/she shouldn't have to starve.
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#102 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 11:50 PM
 
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I think you are just trying to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you are doing. I'm just stupidly confused by all of this hoopla. This is just annoying me to no end.

Start a "have your cake and eat it too" website, aka, I want to be close with my child in all the good ways without doing all the 'dirty' work....which might I add I don't see as dirty work in the first place...but anyhow.

Or why don't you just make a sleep blog on your own website? Plenty of people blog, maybe you'll learn your lesson to get rid of the d-u-m sleep plan if you obsess about writting about it every second of every day for the rest of your life.

I think you're going to make your head spin clear off of your body before any of whatever you think your doing does any good or have any affect at all.

I can't make any sense of anything your talking about anyways. Oh hell I'm not reading this anymore!
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#103 of 109 Old 12-17-2006, 11:56 PM
 
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Lemme see if I have this right:

She has been waking. You go and attend to her. She may need burped, changed, etc. She doesn't "ask" to nurse (by rooting, fussing, etc) so you don't offer, and you both go happily back to sleep. Correct?

I hope you understand that is what is known as "Don't offer, don't refuse." It is a weaning technique. You are night-weaning her by not offering her the breast, whether you realize it or not.

I would think that with her small weight you would be offering as much as you possibly can! Part of keeping a child nursing and not weaning them inadvertantly is *offering* the breast, often. Not just waiting until they are hungry enough to ask for it, or checking to see if other things will pacify them.

What you do is your own decision, but I want you to understand that what you are currently doing is a weaning technique, and you are going to end up with a very young baby who is night or fully weaned, unless you start OFFERING the breast a lot more. Please don't blow me off here! I see so many moms saying what you are - baby doesn't ask very often, seems to be ok with it, has a low-for-age weight, and then "weans themself" at 8 months old. Really, the mother has been weaning them unknowingly with don't offer/don't refuse. Be careful there!
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#104 of 109 Old 12-18-2006, 12:02 AM
 
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Lemme see if I have this right:

She has been waking. You go and attend to her. She may need burped, changed, etc. She doesn't "ask" to nurse (by rooting, fussing, etc) so you don't offer, and you both go happily back to sleep. Correct?

I hope you understand that is what is known as "Don't offer, don't refuse." It is a weaning technique. You are night-weaning her by not offering her the breast, whether you realize it or not.

I would think that with her small weight you would be offering as much as you possibly can! Part of keeping a child nursing and not weaning them inadvertantly is *offering* the breast, often. Not just waiting until they are hungry enough to ask for it, or checking to see if other things will pacify them.

What you do is your own decision, but I want you to understand that what you are currently doing is a weaning technique, and you are going to end up with a very young baby who is night or fully weaned, unless you start OFFERING the breast a lot more. Please don't blow me off here! I see so many moms saying what you are - baby doesn't ask very often, seems to be ok with it, has a low-for-age weight, and then "weans themself" at 8 months old. Really, the mother has been weaning them unknowingly with don't offer/don't refuse. Be careful there!
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#105 of 109 Old 12-18-2006, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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nak
a week(which I previously posted I would write about) is not a life long obsession, it is mearly an observation. I don't veiw it as dirty work. When I was a kid having to co-sleep with my twin sisters because my mom had dissappeared again for a bit then it was a chore, DD right now is my best friend and companion seeing as I have no social life, she fills my day with fun and happiness even on the bad ones. I can sit there balling all horomonal and all it takes is a smile or nose scrunch and I'm giggling away. I've done nothing more then offer her everything and see what she wants. As for starting my own website or blog?, I'm so technologically challenged I don't know what a blog really is. This and simple searchs on google are as far as my expertise goes.
I'm sorry my actions are confuse you, but I'm also glad I understand yours and where you are coming from.
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#106 of 109 Old 12-18-2006, 12:13 AM
 
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Your posts make me really sad. For you as well as your DD. I wish so much that you could find some joy in cosleeping. Really, truely. It is such an amazing thing, I just wish, from the bottom of my heart, that everyone took as much pleasure from it as I do.
I agree. Co-sleeping has NEVER been easy for me. I am a DEEP sleeper. I'm talking 12-14 hours straight, don't remember my head hitting the pillow, don't wake me up before noon, kind of sleeper. Plus, I have fibromyalgia and other chronic pain issues. I have a bulging disk in my back, and with my thoracic outlet syndrome my arms go numb, COLD NUMB, when I sleep on my side.. yet I do it anyway.

I also understand the "quality over quantity" argument about sleeping, but I've learned to adjust. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can get up and walk the halls, sit in a rocking chair, bounce, or otherwise be "awake" in the middle of the night. I just can't. I may nurse her back to sleep 7 times a night, but this, to me, is WAY more preferable then getting up and sitting in a rocking chair! I guess I am lazy!

There was a period of about a month (maybe more?) when DD slept better in her own room, so I let her. I have two monitors and was very responsive to her needs. It was a total PIA! I hated it. We've now had the crib side carred with the drop rail off and things are SO much easier.

I know you will have a gazillion reasons not to agree with what I'm about to say, but instead of complaining about co-sleeping and harping about how you need "good" sleep, why don't you give letting her sleep in bed, at the boob, all night long, an honest effort?

You don't need a bunch of expensive pillows, even rolled towels in the right place can help. I find for me my upper back, my lower back, and between the knees needs some sort of support. Give yourself, and your daughter, time to adjust to it. You may find it ends up being easier then you think.

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#107 of 109 Old 12-18-2006, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lemme see if I have this right:

She has been waking. You go and attend to her. She may need burped, changed, etc. She doesn't "ask" to nurse (by rooting, fussing, etc) so you don't offer, and you both go happily back to sleep. Correct?
no not correct. I'll go through the list of possiblities and save the breast for right after the other basic needs and wants unless she is obviously hungry, then that is the first thing I offer. DD is right on her curve and we were both tiny children andare small adults her weight isn't an issue.
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#108 of 109 Old 12-18-2006, 12:20 AM
 
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no not correct. I'll go through the list of possiblities and save the breast for right after the other basic needs and wants unless she is obviously hungry, then that is the first thing I offer. DD is right on her curve and we were both tiny children andare small adults her weight isn't an issue.

YOu don't offer it before you check other things that may be wrong and that satisfies her, and you don't refuse it if she's "obviously" hungry.

--so your not doing the "don't offer don't refuse" weaning method. You're just not offering and not refusing?

:
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#109 of 109 Old 12-18-2006, 12:34 AM
 
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At this point, I'm going to close this thread to new posts for moderator review.

From the FBNP Forum Guidelines:
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Welcome to The Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting. This forum has a specific aim: to encourage and support co-sleeping.

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Once we become parents it is easy to blame ourselves when our children's behavior seems out of control. The pervasive idea that we should be able to control sleep habits leads us too quickly to call night waking a "sleep disorder" and to wonder what we are doing wrong to cause it. Research gives no indication that anything parents do causes night waking. Babies whose cries are responded to rapidly are not more prone to it. Assuming that there is some method out there to treat sleep "disorders" undermines a parent's confidence. Despite the notion that "healthy, normal" babies sleep through the night, surveys of parents show that most babies do not sleep through the night, at least until all their teeth are in.

While waiting for our children to develop physically and emotionally to the point where they can realistically soothe themsleves to sleep, we need to work on our own development toward tolerance, patience, and acceptance of those aspects of parenting that are beyond our control. What remains in our control is the ability to continue to care for our children even though they are keeping us awake at night; to continue to hold to our own integrity as feeling people.

To embrace a philosophy that takes into account the individual needs of each child is not to ignore the unfortunate reality that we need sleep. We need to nurture ourselves in this process of raising children. The key to tolerance, and the natural passge through the nightwaking years, is to observe, accept, and work with your child's own inner rhythms and timetables, which can lead to the understanding that nurturing your child and nurturing yourself are not mutually exclusive enterprises.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara
Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate CIO (Crying It Out). Personal preferences for and encouragement of the use of CIO and similar sleep training methods are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.

Please feel free to discuss your problems and needs with the intent to learn more about co-sleeping and the family bed.
Anyone interested in learning more about Mothering's stance and information about the benefits of the Family Bed, here is a link to a wealth of information about co-sleeping.

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
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