Night #1 UPDATE night#7 Ready to throw in the towel - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 109 Old 12-11-2006, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So me and Kiana(DD) sat down last night and had a talk about sleeping arrangments. I told her what wasn't working out and what was, and reminded her that Mommy and Daddy need sleep to do a good job taking care of her. She went to sleep 10 minutes before we went to bed so I put her in her cradle and crashed myself. She slept till about 4am, ate from one side and refused the other. When I went to put her back in her cradle she cried, so I picked her up and bounced her a bit and low and behold she burped. After that I rocked her a little more and lay her in the cradle asleep to see what she did. She played a few minutes then drifted off to sleep all on her own. I'll wait a few nights till I see a pattern and maybe I've figured out what's been waking her and what makes her want to nurse so briefly. Just figured after yesterday everyone would be curious as to what I dicided to do.
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#2 of 109 Old 12-11-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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I'm glad you figured out an approach that works for you.

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
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#3 of 109 Old 12-11-2006, 12:29 PM
 
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It sounds like you are still able to be very responsive to her!
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#4 of 109 Old 12-11-2006, 01:56 PM
 
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So me and Kiana(DD) sat down last night and had a talk about sleeping arrangments. I told her what wasn't working out and what was, and reminded her that Mommy and Daddy need sleep to do a good job taking care of her.
For five months old, she seems quite perceptive Hope things continue to go well for you both

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#5 of 109 Old 12-12-2006, 07:54 PM
 
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How's it going CC? How did night 2 go?
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#6 of 109 Old 12-12-2006, 11:37 PM
 
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Hee hee, I really need to have a talk with my 6 month old. She's waking every hour!!

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#7 of 109 Old 12-13-2006, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Night 2

DD Came to bed with us awake, then she woke?....4 times I think, 1 of those were because MJ was scratching while leaning up against the cradle, and the second was for a burb, both I rocked her back to sleep.

Night 3

We skipped our 8pm nap and around 10pm she started acting tired. I thought "Great" then sat up till 11pm(the goal is 10:30) I didn't bring her to bed instead I stayed up till she fell asleep. She woke up twice, which was the goal anyways. The amazing part is that DH went and got her both times.

So tonight I think we will try to disract her for her 8 pm nap, or possibliy try to move it up to 7 pm, that way we can wear her out then spend an hour before bed time relaxing and maybe take a bath.
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#8 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Night #4

Her naps got all screwed up yesterday because she wanted to stay up and play with DD while I was at work till 1pm. By the time 6pm rolled around she was taking what should have been her ewarly afternoon nap. Then we had no 8 pm nap. I started to rock and relax with her at 10pm. By 10:25 she was wide awake, 5 minutes later she was asleep(yay). She woke to eat at 2am and 4am so I took her to bed. She woke 3 other times. The first was 12:45am I picked her up and rocked her for 5 minutes, the second was a burb after I put her down, which she got out herself, aswell as put herself back to sleep playing with her blankets. The third she woke up and started to stir, I left her thinking I would pick her up as soon as the fussy turned to crying and then it was quiet. If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO. Plusme andDH got to go to bed on time and weren't quite tired because of the ast good night so we found some tiime to catch up on DTD.

Don't worry I'll only keep this posting up for the first week b/c it seems I've lost your intrest anyways but in the end I would like to write this all down so at least it is all togather.
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#9 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 12:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy View Post
If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO.
Those of us who choose to nurse our infants back to sleep are not lazy. It is biology. It is what an infant is designed to do.
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#10 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rzberrymom View Post
Those of us who choose to nurse our infants back to sleep are not lazy. It is biology. It is what an infant is designed to do.
Speak for yourself...I'm pretty lazy...but, yeah, I know what you mean...and you're right.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#11 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 12:55 PM
 
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Dear Chronic,

We are also trying some of the same things you are doing. I still nurse 5 mo old DS to sleep (usually several times in the first wee hours), but after that, if he wakes very soon we know that it is b/c he just wants my nipple in his mouth at all times....ouch for me. So we are using these times to have dad snuggle him to sleep. They don't happen often so when they present themselves, we take advantage of the opportunity to get him to sleep in a different way.

You are the expert on your child....you will know when she needs to nurse and not nurse, and when the need to be snuggled. I feel we are finally getting a little hang of it. I still know we'll have setbacks, teething, illness, etc. Two steps forward, one backward. For instance, it took him an hour to go down for his nap this am...and I nursed him too.

Like the others, I don't see anything wrong with nursing to sleep, but at the same time, it is good to know and pick out the opportunities where DH can bond with the little one and snuggle him back to sleep and create opportunities for the little one to learn that others like DH can help him to get to sleep too ~

Good luck,
Jenny

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#12 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 12:59 PM
 
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Like the others, I don't see anything wrong with nursing to sleep, but at the same time, it is good to know and pick out the opportunities where DH can bond with the little one and snuggle him back to sleep and create opportunities for the little one to learn that others like DH can help him to get to sleep too ~

Yes, I agree, that can be nice. At a certain age. Five months is not that age, it's simply too young to NOT nurse every single time baby needs it. A baby that age needs unrestricted access to the breast & the best way to acheive that is allowing the baby to sleep where is is supposed to, next to mom.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#13 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 01:38 PM
 
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If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO.
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Those of us who choose to nurse our infants back to sleep are not lazy. It is biology. It is what an infant is designed to do.
Aman Rzberrymom.

I don't know what to say. I'm half laughing (life lessons.. at 5 months old? ) and half shaking my head.

Independence is not learned at 5 months old, and by feeding your child because they NEED to be nursed you are NOT lazy. Educate yourself, please.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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#14 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 05:15 PM
 
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you guys need to give her a break!!! If you read the first post she said her dd is waking to nurse briefly... that tells me that she doesnt need a "feeding." She needs help going back to sleep. Which is exactly what Chronic Christy is doing. Helping her babe go back to sleep. She never said she was denying her need to nurse or letting her CIO. Just figuring out a dfferent way to help her get to sleep when she DOESN'T need to eat.

CC, have you tried a pacifier? A lot of popel hear will falme for that too, but some of us use them. My ds would be attatched 24/7 if I didnt use one. I tried to take it away once, but he was MISERABLE. I'd rather have a happy baby with a paci than a miserable babe without one.
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#15 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 06:50 PM
 
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How is not nursing to sleep a "valuable life skill"? The baby is 5 months old for heavens sake, isn't that to be expected at the age? I would think so.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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#16 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 09:29 PM
 
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Chrissy -- When my DS was 5 months old I was really obsessed about his sleep, too. I looked at the clock tons like you are doing, tried to figure out, hmmmmm... what should I do now? Should I nurse or not nurse? Pat his back, rock him? I was seriously like completely worried I was doing it "wrong" if I just slept with him and nursed him whenever.

Lemme tell ya... you've got a long road ahead of you if you do it that way, worried about time and how long it's been since she nursed, and she shouldn't be hungry yet, or shouldn't "need" to nurse, yet, etc.

I've learned from having a now 27 month old (who has slept throught the night a handful of times) and a 6 month old (that wakes every two hours to nurse) that sleep and babies and toddlers is a constantly evolving process, and sleep is a biological necessity, so it really isn't something that you can force or tinker with that much, unless you choose to CIO. Your baby might start sleeping through the night when she's 8 months old, then a month later start waking every hour. Then she might go back to sleeping through the night at a year old, then start waking every hour when she's 14 months. Sleep is really largely based on personality and temperment, I think. It's a long journey and all you can really do is hang on for the ride, I think. THere isn't much to "teach" a child about sleep. They know how to do it. They'll do it. They just need you a *LOT* for the first couple years. It's normal and natural.

I don't know what I'm trying to say exactly, except that I always tell people not to stress or worry too much about your child's sleep, unless it seems they really aren't getting enough. Turn the clock away. Don't look at the time. It will only make you crazy. Once I got rid of our bedroom clock my life was soooo much simpler. I quit thinking... hmm... did she wake up 4 times or 5 times last night? Is it getting better or worse? What am I doing wrong? Should I be getting her to "learn" to sleep on her own (which is a silly idea for an infant anyway)?

Because the truth is, as long as we're nursing our babes and loving them and letting them be close to us, there is no wrong. They *will* sleep independently. Your teenager will not be in your bed. THe time with them is short. Try to enjoy it.

BTW, I hope you wanted advice or thoughts or something. I just assumed you did since you have been posting!

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#17 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 09:39 PM
 
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you guys need to give her a break!!! If you read the first post she said her dd is waking to nurse briefly... that tells me that she doesnt need a "feeding." She needs help going back to sleep. Which is exactly what Chronic Christy is doing. Helping her babe go back to sleep. She never said she was denying her need to nurse or letting her CIO. Just figuring out a dfferent way to help her get to sleep when she DOESN'T need to eat.
One last quick thing, sorry. I just reread this post and wanted to add that a lot of night nursing, even if it is only for a minute, works to boost a mother's milk supply. Our milk production is stimulated not by the *length* of a nursing, but the frequency of it. So generally if your baby is waking to nurse only for a minute or two it could be because they are trying to boost your supply. This especially happens between 5-7 months, because of the major 6 month growth spurt. They're smart. They're very very smart, and they know what they need better than we do, often!

This often happens really frequently when a mother works during the day, too.

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#18 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 10:12 PM
 
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If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO.
I'm concerned with this statement. Would you be willing to clarify, because I'm confused. I'm not quite sure what *skills* a five month old could possibly be learning in the scenario you'd described. Coping? Did you mean to imply that those of us who nurse babies to sleep, with babies next to us, are lazy? If so, I'd prefer to be called "relaxed."

As I'm sure we all know, human babies are the most dependent of all mammals. We're born before our time so we can fit through during birth Nine months in mama; nine months out on mama. Babies are happiest when they are in the arms or otherwise touching their mothers, happy to nurse whenever and wherever. It's normal.

I'm offering my opinion, not to judge, simply to pass along what I've learned (the much harder way than having 500 AP mamas come to my aid ) is that small babies simply need their mommies--day and night. Sometimes our expectations are far away from the reality of mothering an infant.

I would suggest attempting to let go of the worry about how often she's waking, nursing, or doing anything. Just be. Enjoy her. Find ways to get your needs met during the day to re-energize your nighttime efforts.

Consider reframing your time together at night--rocking, nursing, not as a means to an end---getting her to sleep--but as sacred, special time you'll never get back. It's not going to make the exhaustion go away, but it can help w/mindset

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#19 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 10:38 PM
 
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One last quick thing, sorry. I just reread this post and wanted to add that a lot of night nursing, even if it is only for a minute, works to boost a mother's milk supply. Our milk production is stimulated not by the *length* of a nursing, but the frequency of it. So generally if your baby is waking to nurse only for a minute or two it could be because they are trying to boost your supply. This especially happens between 5-7 months, because of the major 6 month growth spurt. They're smart. They're very very smart, and they know what they need better than we do, often!

This often happens really frequently when a mother works during the day, too.
I agree completely. That six month growth spurt they often nurse like MMMAADDD dd was marathon nursing like crazy during that.

Plus, she might actually be getting more milk than CC realises or she just wants a snack so she can sleep some more.

BM digests very quickly as it is ideal for babies tummies, it is perfectly reasonable and logical that she would be hungry.

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#20 of 109 Old 12-14-2006, 10:49 PM
 
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I think the best nighttime parenting advice I ever got was to take off my watch and kick the clock out of the bedroom. I've lived without a clock in our room for seven years now

Here is an article that sums up, much better, what I was trying to say

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#21 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok I'm back.

I need to clarify the "lazy" comment. I in no way meant to implie that mom's who nurse during the night are lazy. I only ment it in my case because I would roll out of bed get her climb back into bed and nurse her so that I could fall back to sleep and not deal with the hypothetical burb, wet bum, or tummy gas, bercause that would require me losing sleep to take the extra few minutes. I was using my breast to pacify DD till the morning when I could deal with it and being neglectful to her needs and discomfort. I'm sure any co-sleeping mom would change a daiper in the middle of the night if that is what their child wanted, I just offered the breast till she took it and settled with it till the next time she woke. That wasn't fair to DD, I screwed up, and I'm fixing it. If DD still wants to nurse and does not fall back asleep after a while I'll bring her to bed and nurse her till we both fall asleep.

What I consider valuable skills may differ for every individual family. I feel that DD learning to transistion and lull into sleep on her own in no distress what soever is a valuable skill, because she learns to listen to her body and meet her bodies needs. I've heard many moms on this bored state that breastfeeding releases horomones which cause the mother and child to relax more often aiding in the transistion into sleep, so in a way you could say it acts like a natural drug which your body produces. IMHO it makes sense to me that if DD can fall asleep on her own without this horomone then when she nurses she should fall asleep that much easier because she is already working on relaxing making it a joint effort on many levels.

I would also like to address the increase nursing to increase production posts. I'm leaking and full most of the day and night(not evening however) and I can feed her and still pump 3-5oz afterwards. Not to mention that she feeds off of on breast per feeding so if she is hungry there is always to other side.

Also the paci has been tried and I'm afraid to post this but she loves her paci sometime but other times she just doesn't care, and then there's time where she doesn't want it at all. If there is anything else you would like clarified , or eplained, or any misconceptions I have that you may want to help me tounderstand I'm open to it.
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#22 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 12:33 AM
 
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I think it is great the OP is doing what she feels is best for her family. And I can't believe there are some people harping on her, when she is not crying it out, she is gently and lovingly getting her child back to sleep. i didn't realize there is only one way to parent at night.
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#23 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 12:39 AM
 
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lots of life skills are learned starting from birth- sitting up, rolling over- give the woman a break- babies are sponges- compared to the skills learned during the first year of life alone, our adult brains are practically asleep- learning to see and recognizing one's caregiver- learning that one can communicate- when I cry mommy or daddy respond- by bringing the kid to bed with you at night you are encouraging that child to sleep- an invaluable life skill- new moms have a hard time figuring out when their child is hungry, how often to feed- she's just looking for encouragement and advice- when she comes here she should know she will be encouraged to feed the child every time she stirs. IMO that's not the best advice. But go ahead censor me.
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#24 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 01:06 AM
 
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In my opinion, not that anyone asked , the OP's technique is well within the bounds of acceptable. She is NOT crying it out, she is nursing her baby when she wakes at night, and she seems to be very in tune with her child's development and needs. We might quibble over whether the baby should stay in the family bed, but I believe this is a call for each family to make.
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#25 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 02:27 AM
 
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I think it is great the OP is doing what she feels is best for her family. And I can't believe there are some people harping on her, when she is not crying it out, she is gently and lovingly getting her child back to sleep. i didn't realize there is only one way to parent at night.
I don't see any harping, nor do I see anyone saying there is only one way to do something. Please remember that if anyone has an issue with how a thread is progressing, or if you see a post that is in violation of the MDC User Agreement, please report it.

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#26 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 03:44 AM
 
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I think most of us have just stated what we know from experience, and from what we have learned through research. Oh, and some people were ticked about the lazy comment.

CC -- FWIW I don't change DD's diaper at night anymore unless she poops, which is very rare.

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#27 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think most of us have just stated what we know from experience, and from what we have learned through research. Oh, and some people were ticked about the lazy comment.

CC -- FWIW I don't change DD's diaper at night anymore unless she poops, which is very rare.
But if it was making her uncomfortable and she wanted it changed I'm sure you wouldn't force her to settle on the boob, instead you would change her then offer her your breast again. Pee is sterile so I had no problem justifying that "it won't hurt her" but sometimes it does make her very uncomfortable.

Oh yeah night 5
So she took her 20 minute nap arround 7:00, then at 10:00 we started to relax and cuddle togather, she was out by 10:30. I however got sick yesterday so I just brought her to bed once she woke up and collapsed on the pillow. When I woke up if she was there sleeping in bed I moved her back to her cradle. I think she got up 3 times.

I enjoy our cudddle/relaxing time before sleeping or when she wakes up. There have been times when DH has tried to help put her back to sleep and they obviously aren't enjoying it even if they are making progress towards the ultimate goal of sleep, so I step in and do it myself.

Oh and I forgot to address the time thing. Unfortunatly one of us is working everyday of the week and need the alarm clock. When I wake if it is close enough to when we normally get up I don't concern myself with going back to sleep for 20 minutes because I just end up more tired. So I glance at the clock when getting DD from the cradle(it's kinda hard to miss anyways). During the day I know whta time according to what tv show is on in the background:

But I'm running out of time for my shower so I have to wrap this up. Thanks to all the supportive mommas, and thanks for the concern from all the ones who aren't
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#28 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 03:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy View Post

I need to clarify the "lazy" comment. I in no way meant to implie that mom's who nurse during the night are lazy. I only ment it in my case because I would roll out of bed get her climb back into bed and nurse her so that I could fall back to sleep and not deal with the hypothetical burb, wet bum, or tummy gas, bercause that would require me losing sleep to take the extra few minutes.
Ok, that makes sense. But there is still a big difference in attending to your daughter's needs, and teaching her "valuable life skills". Not being lazy and changing a diaper in the middle of the night because your baby is uncomfortable is not teaching them "valuable life skills". Trying to avoid nursing to sleep at night without CIO to teach "valuable life skills" is unrealistic. I get the impression from this post that the latter is what you are trying to achieve.

I am all for trying to resettle my daughter back to sleep without nursing, IF IT WORKS, as we are going through something similar. But I don't view learning to not nurse to sleep at night as a valuable life skill. It's normal. Especially at 5 months old. And even if she does only nurse for a second and fall asleep, this helps our supply, and I know you've had weight gain issues, so you might want to reconsider restricting her nursing for a while.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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#29 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
And even if she does only nurse for a second and fall asleep, this helps our supply, and I know you've had weight gain issues, so you might want to reconsider restricting her nursing for a while.

Thank you for your concern about DDs weight. I just thought I'd let everyone know because I haven't posted it lately, DD is at 11lbs 5oz
and according to our Dr. doing great. The difference is that I keep offering the breast even when she didn't want it till she took it. I was abusing my breast as a pacifier in the literal sense not the rubber pacifier sense.

I am glad that I kinda straitened out the lazy issue though, I really ment no offense.
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#30 of 109 Old 12-15-2006, 03:31 PM
 
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I was abusing my breast as a pacifier in the literal sense not the rubber pacifier sense.
There is no such thing. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't take it. You can't make them, and you can't abuse it.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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