Could you be friends with someone who CIO? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 05:15 AM
 
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i do find myself distanced from new aquaintances on this issue. i recall meeting a mom at a park where we were having a great conversation, hitting it off, then she said something about a time when she heard her ds crying in his crib, "and it wasn't his usual cry," so she decided to go see what was wrong, and he had a leg stuck out between the bars. i didn't really hear anything she said after that, i sort of shut down, thinking: "different than the 'usual cry' that you ignore?"

and my neighbor, who seemed so attached with her newborn, coslept then, used the sling we gave, went to LLL meetings with me... well, when her son was 5 mos she was telling me how bad a vacation was, because the 2 bedrooms were close together, and how even with earplugs she could still hear ds crying, for an hour... i remember her then getting a funny look on her face, and i realized i must have been looking shocked, and the conversation trailed off. after that i realized i wasn't that interested in getting to be closer friends. she once asked to borrow a tent, because they were going camping, and her 3man tent wasn't big enough for them, so she wanted to put her 1 1/2 year old alone in his own tent. it broke my heart to imagine that kid alone in the woods. thankfully, we had (truthfully) misplaced our tent a year before, and couldn't loan it.

i think one of the reasons my best friend (since 1972!) and i are still close through child raising is that we agree that you give kids what they need: you nurse them and don't leave them to cry. on other things we frequently disagree, and have to shelve topics of converation and agree to respectfully disagree (like tv, schedules, pink (i'm "denying" my dd's pink because i don't buy pink baby clothes!!!), disney stuff, diet, healthcare, noisy toys, bare feet...). there's value in someone who has been with you through all your past. they keep you grounded, keep you real, remind you who you've been. you don't have to explain everything. but if you grow too far apart, and you don't feel they value you anymore, the friendship will wither. too much judgement will end a friendship.

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#62 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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***Little update***

In response to my links to read, she told me she would not be reading any of them because she didn't care to be told she would be messing up her child for life by not doing things a certain way. Um....ok.....

She also told me that by following the "new way" of parenting practices I'm using I will be "raising a generation of undicipplined children that expect their parents to be their butlers and have things their way at all times and are completly unable to cope when their "needs" aren't met. "

She hasn't even read enough to know that CIO is the "new way" if you look at history. She's usually into the history of stuff so I sent her a link explaining that but she won't even read it.

I love her but she's very opinionated. We cannot discuss politics of any kind. We cannot discuss finances. We cannot discuss weight/food/exercise. *sigh*

I think for now I'm just not responding in hopes of letting us both calm down. Unfortunately she's supposed to be meeting me and watching DS while I have a doctor appt on Thursday. If she doesn't show I guess I'll just have a nurse hold him.
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#63 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 03:01 PM
 
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Yes, but I definitely found myself putting a little more distance between us while their kids were little. There was one neighbor who I was beginning to be friendly with until she started telling another mom to let her baby cry at 3 months (!). I have two good friends who I am now close to again, and I feel our parenting is fairly similar now.
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#64 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 03:18 PM
 
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yes. i do not require that my friends live their life according to my values. i choose my friends based on their personality and how well we click, and i can still "click" with someone who parents differently. i do think it's a plus when someone does have the same parenting style, but you just can't base a friendship on that. or at least i can't. i think CIO is wrong. i don't do it. but i know good people who think (and do) otherwise. just cause they don't do things my way doesn't mean they are bad people. in fact, if they strongly believed in CIO but the only reason they didn't do was cause they wanted me to be their friend, it would creep me out. i guess it comes down to respecting someone as an individual and respecting peoples right to parent how they think is best. in any case, i would be absolutely crushed if one of my mainstream friends ditched our friendship cause i cosleep or something like that.
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#65 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 03:33 PM
 
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I was TOTALLY pro cry it out.

Until she was born.

I was totally pro spanking.

Until she was born.

I had all sorts of plans for my perfectly behaved child, because I was NOT going to go through what my friends went through with the sleepless nights, and the tantrums, and other behavior issues. Because after all, I was a professional in my field of early childhood. This would be a breeze.

Of course, all of that went out the window. I never left her to cry. I couldn't bear to. I never ever dreamed of spanking her again.

My sister in law was a Cry it out parent. She was a spanker. She spanked, and punished, and spanked some more. I was so sad. Her kids are very well behaved, and responsible. But, so is mine. She is happy, healthy, and responsible.
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#66 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 03:53 PM
 
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I would have been totally doing all that crap (CIO, circ, whatever) if I hadn't found MDC and Mothering mag before dd was conceived.
Me, too. I just happened upon the magazine in a store while I was pregnant. It totally changed my ideas of how I would parent. Then, after ds was born, I was SO immediately in love with him that I couldn't bear thinking of doing anything other than AP. I think that what we would do in theory before giving birth to our babies could be very different from what we'd like to do once they're in our arms. So maybe if you plant the AP idea in your friend's mind right now (or at least the thought that there are other ways of parenting), she'll be more likely to AP after giving birth.
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#67 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 04:43 PM
 
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I would lose so much respect for them that I wouldn't be able to be a caring, giving friend to them anymore. None of my friends did/do CIO, and if any who have kids in the future do, I will do everything in my power to stop them as I believe it to be serious child neglect, especially in newborns. It's not about being judgmental and live and let live, it's about a baby crying alone in a dark room, frightened because it's mother refuses to respond. I can't overlook that.
You're exactly right....

I also agree with what 425lisamarie said about Barb36's comment.

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#68 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 04:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ChristyMarie View Post
***Little update***

In response to my links to read, she told me she would not be reading any of them because she didn't care to be told she would be messing up her child for life by not doing things a certain way. Um....ok.....

She also told me that by following the "new way" of parenting practices I'm using I will be "raising a generation of undicipplined children that expect their parents to be their butlers and have things their way at all times and are completly unable to cope when their "needs" aren't met. "

She hasn't even read enough to know that CIO is the "new way" if you look at history. She's usually into the history of stuff so I sent her a link explaining that but she won't even read it.

I love her but she's very opinionated. We cannot discuss politics of any kind. We cannot discuss finances. We cannot discuss weight/food/exercise. *sigh*

I think for now I'm just not responding in hopes of letting us both calm down. Unfortunately she's supposed to be meeting me and watching DS while I have a doctor appt on Thursday. If she doesn't show I guess I'll just have a nurse hold him.
I am so sorry you are going thru this s

After having an agruement w/my cousin on the circ issue and me being brought to tears (ok, fine, i was balling) I realized that I could yes, be friendly with her, but never "best friends" agian, like a pp said. She also CIO and all that jazz, and accordingly, that's what she talks about. Parenting is what we have in common and what we talk about... She can't stand hearing my "off the wall" parenting style and I HATE listening to her put her children in pain. I do talk w/her occassionaly but not often and only if its not about parenting.

That being said, I do have one friend, (not IRL) that I talk to quite often. She did decide to circ, she let her dd CIO and I think she'll prolly do it again w/her ds. Her and I have a different relationship where we can agree to disagree if you know what I mean. However, most ppl aren't that "understanding".

No matter what, if you're not mainstream and most of the ppl around you are, its going to be tough. It's hard having all this knowledge and trying to help ppl learn more about NFL only to be looked at as pushy or not knowing what you're talking about.

I hope you come to some good conclusion on this! If I were closer I'd hold your sweet babe for ya!! But who knows! She may show up and she might even feel a little bad for being so hard on ya.

Tabitha, married to my best friend Steven - Mama to 6 little ones and another on the way!
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#69 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 05:01 PM
 
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I think I might wean myself of her friendship not because her opinions don't agree with yours (and mine), but because she sounds like a closed-minded person who is not at all interested in learning or having her ideas broadened. That kind of person just doesn't interest me.

When my own mom told me it was high time I wean my son from the breast, that I was probably harming him by nursing for so long, I sent her lots of great information . . . Dr. Sears, KellysMom, etc. She went through it like a high school senior getting ready for debate team . . . highlighting any little snippet that supported her existing opinion, but completely closed to learning anything new. It was so disappointing to me. I can't ditch her as my mom, but I do avoid discussing parenting issues with her. Her opinions are set in stone. Maybe that's why God invented menopause.
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#70 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 05:13 PM
 
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My two best friends in the whole world use CIO (controlled Ferber like) with their children. So yes.

They know I don't and won't do it, and don't push it on me.
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#71 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 05:30 PM
 
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I don't judge people based on parenting style. I can wholeheartedly disagree and be disappointed, but it doesn't mean they're bad or evil, IMO.
: I guess I see things in a different light because I have 2 kids on both ends of the spectrum age-wise. I have a 15 yo ds and a 18 mo dd, and I know from my son that the things you are passionate about when your kids are little are so not what you care about when they get older.

I also know that with my friends I don't really talk parenting stuff that much, I use discussions boards for that type of conversation. That's just me though.

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#72 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ChristyMarie View Post
***Little update***

In response to my links to read, she told me she would not be reading any of them because she didn't care to be told she would be messing up her child for life by not doing things a certain way. Um....ok.....

She also told me that by following the "new way" of parenting practices I'm using I will be "raising a generation of undicipplined children that expect their parents to be their butlers and have things their way at all times and are completly unable to cope when their "needs" aren't met. "

She hasn't even read enough to know that CIO is the "new way" if you look at history. She's usually into the history of stuff so I sent her a link explaining that but she won't even read it.

I love her but she's very opinionated. We cannot discuss politics of any kind. We cannot discuss finances. We cannot discuss weight/food/exercise. *sigh*

I think for now I'm just not responding in hopes of letting us both calm down. Unfortunately she's supposed to be meeting me and watching DS while I have a doctor appt on Thursday. If she doesn't show I guess I'll just have a nurse hold him.
Sounds like you have more reasons aside from her parenting choices to decide whether or not you want to continue the relationship. I mean what you describe sounds like the type of relationship one might have with a family member (for me this is my Dad) where you love the person but you know there are limits to the relationship.

Shay

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#73 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 05:58 PM
 
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she sounds very defensive at this point; remember being pregnant and hormonal and freaking out at the realization that life as you know it is going to end? and everyone asking "is this your first baby?" and when you say yes they start unloading advice? she may be trying to keep a sense of control. detached parenting practices always promise parental control, which is very reassuring when you're afraid of the unknown.

it sounds like you've both managed to agree to disagree in the past, you probably can in this arena, too, so long as there's something left (besides parenting, food/weight/exercise, $, politics...) that's safe for you guys to talk about! movies? and if you don't end up both making each feel bad by judging each other. but it's hard, because a best friend is the one you want to accept you, and help you problem solve, instead of tell you that you're doing everything wrong, and your problems are you own fault for not living a carbon copy of their life.

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#74 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 06:12 PM
 
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If you can be over at her home having tea while the baby screams for one hour downstairs alone in his crib go for it.
I couldn't.
Maybe we will reconnect when the children are older

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#75 of 114 Old 01-22-2007, 07:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Heffernhyphen View Post
I think I might wean myself of her friendship not because her opinions don't agree with yours (and mine), but because she sounds like a closed-minded person who is not at all interested in learning or having her ideas broadened. That kind of person just doesn't interest me.
:

One of the reasons the friend I mentioned in my earlier post & I have been able to stay friends is because she's at least open to new information. She may not agree or change her mind, but at least she gives everything a fair hearing you know?

That attitude would *seriously* bother me more than CIO or pretty much any other individual issue.

Holly
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#76 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 12:24 AM
 
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I think for now I'm just not responding in hopes of letting us both calm down. Unfortunately she's supposed to be meeting me and watching DS while I have a doctor appt on Thursday. If she doesn't show I guess I'll just have a nurse hold him.[/QUOTE]

How old is your ds? Are you concerned about her letting your child cio too while she watches him?
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#77 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 01:42 AM
 
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Honestly...no.

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#78 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 03:01 AM
 
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you do not care if your ds cries it out or you think she will not let him?
just trying to clarify.
My kids are 1 and 3 and it just is not an issue anymore. My friends also know I am the hippie of the group and probally just don't talk about things like that in front of me. Most of my friends that are pretty mainstream do sleep with their kids tho.
My one friend who had a hb asked me the day after if it was ok to let the baby cio cause her sister had told her to do that( the night he was born at home!!!) and she knew it did not feel ok. We talked about it and she was so happy to hear of another way. She has gotten her own footing and listens to herself on how to do things and is doing such a great job.( she may be reading this!!!LOL)
I am in tears thinking of how proud I am of her.
Anyhow- if she had let that baby cio after I had shared info with her I think it would have hurt me deeply and I would have felt sick about it. I would have remained her friend tho and continued promoting kinder ways to parent.
Oh- I am so sorry for you right now. That sucks.
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#79 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 03:09 AM
 
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howd it go? dd was born 11.28.05
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#80 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 03:35 AM
 
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I sometimes wish I could have the opinion of some here, but I have found it too hard to try to look the other way about parenting issues. I have had similar situations happen and it's just too hard for me. I find it hard to talk to friends about certain issues because I think most parents really do try to do what's best for their children.

What I can't put up with at all is when parents who aren't as "granolla" as I am give me advise about how to parent. Example: saying how healthy and happy my dd is but then start telling me to feed my baby solids even though she's wasn't ready yet. I just want to say but you were just commenting on how she was such a healthy, happy baby and how cute her fat cheecks are!

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#81 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 03:56 AM
 
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After reading all the posts I'm amazed how many mama's wouldn't be friends over this issue...
I actually have a few friends who are republican...holy moly can you believe it??? I never thought that would happen. Our views are so completely opposite HOWEVER, we're all still good friends and don't let religion, politics, or views get in the way of our friendship.
I think different things work for different kinds of people, it's what makes the world go around.

peace on earth....
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#82 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 06:56 AM
 
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After reading all the posts I'm amazed how many mama's wouldn't be friends over this issue...
I actually have a few friends who are republican...holy moly can you believe it??? I never thought that would happen. Our views are so completely opposite HOWEVER, we're all still good friends and don't let religion, politics, or views get in the way of our friendship.
I think different things work for different kinds of people, it's what makes the world go around.

peace on earth....
You know its funny, I also have friends who are *gasp* Republican but they wouldn't let their children cio. I guess we all have limits on what is acceptable to us and many of us consider CIO abuse--physical and emotional. I know for me I feel so bad for the babes in this situation that it does end up ending friendships, I just don't believe people are good people who abuse their children by CIO--even after being educated about the physiological and emotional effects.

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#83 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 01:39 PM
 
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CIO - Not for me and I have a neighbor who does it. We were there one night when they were making her cry it out and give up her passy. It was upsetting - but I tried to let that go. I was prego at the time. It seems to me that if I hold everyone to my standard I would be very lonely. I get very worked up about the issues and now carefully choose who I share my ideas with. As for family (and some pro circ family members) I am planning on giving alot of motherhood subscriptions.

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#84 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 01:52 PM
 
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OOps. Wrong post.

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#85 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 02:04 PM
 
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I don't voice my questions about others' parenting styles unless they say something about mine. Then, the door is open to discuss. Other than that, my friends agree to not talk about parenting, and we're still friends. I just don't feel like I can convince them to not CIO or not circ, etc. by means of mouth. I try to do it by example.

I am exhausted, but my baby is extremely happy and developing quickly. I attribute this to breastfeeding on demand, co-sleeping, and not traumatizing him with circumcision!

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#86 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 02:13 PM
 
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Another thing to consider: If you and others with our more enlightened approach remove yourselves from her life, what chance does she have to ever see the light? Even if you never say a word about it, maybe by just being the gentle presence modeling another (BETTER!) way, she will come around. Let her surround herself in the cozy haven of like minds and she'll no doubt feel like she's just doing what everybody else is so it must be okay.
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#87 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You know its funny, I also have friends who are *gasp* Republican but they wouldn't let their children cio.
I'm a co-sleeping, baby-wearing Republican ~ and I'm even friends with lots of Democrats. Somehow letting a baby cry is a heck of a lot different than a voting stye for me.

I also think it depends on how you view CIO - I see it as borderline abuse. That little baby didn't ask to be brought into the world, you know?
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#88 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 02:42 PM
 
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I agree with the pp who said that her mind might change since she's only pregnant with her first baby. I would tell her to keep an open mind since all babies have different temperaments and it may be very difficult for her to hear her baby cry and not respond. Also let her know how wonderful it is to comfort your baby, to cuddle them to sleep. And keep on plugging the AP stuff

Re: the question of whether or not I could be friends with someone who CIO, no I couldn't. I would try to change their mind before cutting them off, but I would feel so sad for the baby each time I saw him.

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#89 of 114 Old 01-23-2007, 07:09 PM
 
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You know its funny, I also have friends who are *gasp* Republican but they wouldn't let their children cio. I guess we all have limits on what is acceptable to us and many of us consider CIO abuse--physical and emotional. I know for me I feel so bad for the babes in this situation that it does end up ending friendships, I just don't believe people are good people who abuse their children by CIO--even after being educated about the physiological and emotional effects.
I agree. A bunch of people have posted in this threads to basically say that ending a friendship over CIO is "judging someone for doing things differently." I don't think that's it at all. No one does EVERYTHING the same as other parents, and I have friends who do all kinds of things differently than me- I have friends who use strollers while I tend towards babywearing, friends who are really opposed to anything that smacks of being "girly" for their baby boys while I think purple should be a boy OR a girl color. But for me, the CIO thing is a moral issue that's fundamental to one's core values, not just one of many mundane parenting choices.

I had a friend once who was a lot of fun to be around, and we had a lot in common. But he started dropping all these anti-semetic comments, which floored me as he is gay and Puerto Rican, and I dunno, I'm always suprised I guess when a member of one minority group discriminates against another. He had a really dysfunctional start in life and so I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt at first, and just educate him on why it's wrong to say the things he was saying. But it wasn't working, and I had to cut off all contact with him. To me, that's a totally equivalent situation. He had values that were simply incompatible with mine. The same is true for me for people who let their babies CIO. I have some sympathy for some of them, because often they just don't know any better, much like my friend who was raised by bigoted parents who taught him to say things like "what a cheap Jew." But in the end, it doesn't matter very much where the values came from- if they're incompatible with your own, it's hard to be friends.

I have moms in my playgroup who CIO, and I'm still friendly with them. But I won't seek out becoming closer friends with them outside of our weekly playgroup. It's a lot more complicated with existing friends, as in the case of the OP. Hopefully the friend I have who says she plans to CIO will change her mind. If not, I won't cut her off, but I can't see us remaining as close after that. It's just reality.

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#90 of 114 Old 01-24-2007, 04:33 AM
 
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I didn't read all of the posts, but two of my good friends are baby wisers. They really honestly believe that they have to let their baby cry because babies are manipulative. It really bothers me, but I still love them. They think it's so sad that I am so sleep deprived. I don't know what to tell them. It's hard. We just kind of avoid the topic. I think I might let them know about no cry sleep solution though, we'll see!
What does being a republican have to do with CIO?? Wait never mind, I don't want to get into politics I know I'll regret it!

Mama to Clara 5/2/06, & Anna 11/4/08 and wife to Dan 6/8/02
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