Could you be friends with someone who CIO? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let's say you are very anti-CIO and your best friend who is pregnant with her first just announced to you she is pro-CIO and wants to buy "Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child" and won't even consider reading your copy of the "no cry sleep solution" You got her to sort of agree to read any links you sent her (and believe me, I just sent her a TON) but you aren't sure she will really read them. She thinks you are weird for co-sleeping and holding your DS when he naps.

How do you stay friends?:
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#2 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 10:52 PM
 
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yes i would try. jmo.

i would set an example w/ your awesome parenting and not go to her house at nap times. just let her know it bothers you too much to listen to it. ppl have crazy ideas during pregnancy and change when the baby arrives anyway. you should give a sling too.
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#3 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:06 PM
 
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Yes; I am, in fact.

It made me so sad to think about it; I think she had a little PPD and was convinced her ds wasn't getting any sleep and her ped told her to do CIO. That her ds "would still smile when he saw her in the morning." Ugh. She was really upset about it, but did it anyway. I wish I were more forceful in sharing my pro co-sleeping, non-CIO feelings, among other things (like anti-circ!! this one kills me, too), I don't know why I don't exactly. Anyway, that's another post.

I think it's great that you shared your view and resources with her. You never know what will happen. I would have been totally doing all that crap (CIO, circ, whatever) if I hadn't found MDC and Mothering mag before dd was conceived.
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#4 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:19 PM
 
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of course I would be friends with them!! one of my very best friends is due on SUnday and if she chooses to go that route, it wont affect our friendship. I am not going to treat MY ds that way and if I babysit for her I will nto treat HER ds that way, but I am not letting go of a dear friend due to some bad choices she makes. Hopefully, since I had a baby first, I can lead her by example in that area. I have a better chance of "changing" her if I am still friends with her. I feel all cultish now so I am going to stop.
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#5 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:21 PM
 
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Nope, and no way. To me it's a basic human value of life issue. I will say no more or defend that, either.
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#6 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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Nope, I lost a friendship with someone who did CIO. We were too judgmental of each other's parenting styles.
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#7 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:27 PM
 
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Probably, all the mothers in our playgroup did and I still see them all the time. My best friend has three children and has NEVER CIO...it would be weird to me if she did But I don't suppose I would lose the friendship over it, I would try and help them if they were doing it as a 'last resort' though.
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#8 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:28 PM
 
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Yes. Something that struck me is that you said she's currently pregnant. How many ideas did you have, knowing how you would do things, prior to childbirth that ended up flying out the window? "I just don't agree with co-sleeping" said the mom here who shares her bed half the night with her 4 yr old! LOL I could go on! I also know many people who theoretically have no issue with CIO but when it comes down to it, they surprise themselves because they just can't do it (guilty again). I understand that you're very opposed to CIO, but I wouldn't write her off - you never know what magic the act of mothering might work!

K.
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#9 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:32 PM
 
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I would try but generally this is not the only difference over time so it becomes difficult and then we grow apart. I really do try to be tactful too and to keep my mouth shut.
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#10 of 114 Old 01-19-2007, 11:59 PM
 
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i can be a female dog. that being said, i cant remain friends... its tough for me. i got into a heated blow up w/my cousin about circing and then dh and i talked and decided just not to talk to ppl about things like that anymore because you cant get thru the wall. its just too stressful to think about what the babies go thru.

Tabitha, married to my best friend Steven - Mama to 6 little ones and another on the way!
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#11 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:02 AM
 
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I have Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child and I never let my dd cio. Its actually a good reference book.

I do have a friend who is VERY pro - CIO and was doing it one night while we were all at her house (book club or something, I cant recall). It was so upsetting. She didnt even bat an eyelash but we were all trying to talk her out of it. Finally one girl got up and let her kid out of bed. lol Poor thing.
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#12 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Nope, I lost a friendship with someone who did CIO. We were too judgmental of each other's parenting styles.
That's a key point here, I think. You are judging her and her choices. I agree with you that CIO is awful . . . in fact I just heard Dr. Sears on Dr. Phil's show today say that it is actually physically dangerous to the child because it raises blood pressure and can hinder oxygen-rich blood supply to precious growing brains.

Tell her your reasons, share with her why you think CIO is wrong, but if she chooses her own way, that's her choice. I certainly have enough people thinking I'm harming my DS by co-sleeping and nursing him at the ripe old age of three. Wouldn't it be terrible if they decided to dump me because of it?
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#13 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:11 AM
 
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I wouldn't let it ruin a friendship, but I would keep sending her stuff like you are and hope when her babe gets here that she will change her mind. I was kind of on the fence when I was preg. but EVERYTHING changed when my dd arrived; I could never let her CIO.
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#14 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:12 AM
 
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I can be friends with people who have different ideas about parenting. How distressing it would be to me would probably depend on how hard-core CIO they were. I certainly have friends who let their kids cry more than I do.

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Originally Posted by ChristyMarie View Post
She thinks you are weird for co-sleeping and holding your DS when he naps.
This would be a bigger hurdle, potentially. If a friend truly thought I was weird and was really unaccepting about it, the friendship would definitely suffer.
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#15 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:16 AM
 
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I can't do CIO on my dd, just could not stand it, but I have some great friends who are wonderful mothers that have tried it, some with great success, some that didn't have success and stopped.
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#16 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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easy goer, you said it.

Also, people's opinions can and do change. I've changed since becoming a mama, I know that. So don't take it as her final word.
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#17 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TabbyK View Post
Yes. Something that struck me is that you said she's currently pregnant. How many ideas did you have, knowing how you would do things, prior to childbirth that ended up flying out the window? "I just don't agree with co-sleeping" said the mom here who shares her bed half the night with her 4 yr old! LOL I could go on! I also know many people who theoretically have no issue with CIO but when it comes down to it, they surprise themselves because they just can't do it (guilty again). I understand that you're very opposed to CIO, but I wouldn't write her off - you never know what magic the act of mothering might work!

K.
:
I say, yes-- although for me it is (currently) hard now that my friends are starting to have babies.
I have 2 friend that may go down that road (and others I don't agree with) so I got them both subscriptions to mothering Hopefully they will learn something along the way. I just can't keep getting all worked up over our differing ways of parenting! :

Good luck!

Miles (December 2005) Pascual (March 2009). P's was my beautiful home waterbirth that healed me from my M's birth. natural birth, midwifery, postpartum depression, babywearing, breastfeeding.
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#18 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:35 AM
 
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Before I had dd, I was planning to CIO.: I just was very misinformed that that was the only way you could get a baby to sleep. And I was totally against co-sleeping. I thought it would ruin our marriage. Little did I know. I am so thankful for the girl in our birth class who spoke out against Babywise to me. Even though at the time, I was angry at her for being so harsh with me, especially in front of everyone. But it got me thinking. And reading. And researching. She brought in a Moby wrap, the first wrap I ever saw. She wrapped her nephew in it for us to see. I thought it was totally 'hippie' and wierd. Then I had dd and she wouldn't let me put her down. Luckily the website of where she bought the wrap stuck in my head, and I ordered one. So after my long post, my answer is yes, I would remain friends. My friends and I dont agree on everything. I disagree with lots of things, and CIO is one of them. However I have remained friends with two people who CIO, and now both are co-sleeping. With their almost 4 year olds. It's never too late! I also remain friends with people who believe spanking is ok. Not with those who abuse or beat their children. I do not believe my friends think that is what they are doing when they spank. Of course I 100% disagree with spanking, and they know that. But by remaining friends, we have come up with different ways of disciplining the kids. They would have continued to spank had they not had someone who taught them differently. HTH
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#19 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 01:56 AM
 
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Yes.. or I wouldn't have any friends. But really, I wouldn't want to talk about it or be around it, but would try to remain friends.
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#20 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 02:15 AM
 
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My best friend CIO. She is a "in your crib in your own room" from the day her kids get home from the hospital kinda momma. Neither of her boys has ever slept in their bed. And I don't like coincidentally, part of it was she was never able to nurse laying down. If she had been able to I'm almost positive she would have ended up co-sleeping. But, she doesn't. She also doesn't do hours & hours of CIO though. I guess it's the Ferber method? Where you let them cry 10 min then go in to reassure them, let them cry 15 min then go in and reassure them, etc. She also circed her boys & spanks, which I totally disagree with. She knows my feelings on both subjects, and we've just agreed to disagree. On the plus side she natural births, selective/delayed vaxes, tries to do the whole NFL/healthy food thing, and breastfeeds.

We have been friends for over 20 years though, so there is a lot of history & inventment in the relationship. Honestly, if I was just getting to know someone & found out they CIO, circ, & spank I wouldn't immediatly cross them off the list, but I'd definitly give the friendship a second thought or two. Spanking is actually becoming a bigger issue for me than CIO to be honest.

Holly
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#21 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 02:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by easy_goer View Post
I can be friends with people who have different ideas about parenting. How distressing it would be to me would probably depend on how hard-core CIO they were. I certainly have friends who let their kids cry more than I do.



.
same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsMum View Post
I can't do CIO on my dd, just could not stand it, but I have some great friends who are wonderful mothers that have tried it, some with great success, some that didn't have success and stopped.
what is "success"?

i, fortunately, have not had this problem. most of my friends are intuitive and emotional people who would not be able to let their baby's need go unmet.
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#22 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 02:22 AM
 
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My best friend did CIO and we were still close until she moved away, but it definately affected us. I really admired alot of the rest of the way she parented, wore baby in backpack, no-circ., except for CIO pretty respectful of her children. I didn't see how CIO fit in with that. After awhile we just didn't talk about it after it was clear that I wasn't going to let dd CIO even though my friend thought I should. It worked out ok because once she knew my opinion she backed off and I knew her opinion and backed off.

:::
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#23 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 02:23 AM
 
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Wow. CIO is very dangerous and terrible for a babies physical and emotional health. Some would call it child abuse. I would.
Purposefully not caring for your infant? That is what it is.

I am friends with people who have done this and do this. I do not stay at someones house while it is happening and I do not condone it. I am hopeful that they pick up other things from me- but I am not perfect and they have strengths in parenting that I don't have to.... but I would never think CIO was an ok thing for any parent or child to do.
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#24 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 03:23 AM
 
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Could I be...


Friendly? Yes.

Friends? That would depend on whether this was CIO-lite or Ezzo baby training.

Best friends? No, not during the time they were believers in CIO. Whether or not I intended it, my trust in that person's advice would be affected. On some level I just wouldn't understand them, or feel understood by them. My closest friends are kindred spirits, with basic values I understand.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#25 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 05:13 AM
 
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I understand completely where you are all coming from in feeling very strongly about not doing CIO. I have to say that I think it is so important to respect others' choices, though. We can all have our opinions, but we bring so much of our own history to our role as parents. We also all have varying degrees of what we can handle in terms of sleep deprivation. The people I know who did CIO did so because they simply couldn't survive the sleep deprivation...and most did modified versions of it.

I would, of course, remain friends with folks who choose different parenting avenues than I do. Out right abuse, probably not. But CIO doesn't fall under that definition (I'm a social worker and there are very clear guidelines as to what qualifies as abuse).

I haven't been able to do CIO with my babies...however tempting! Sleep deprviation really kills me and I'm constantly trying different gentle methods. Because I struggle so much with sleep deprivation, I can really understand how desperate some feel to do anything to get more sleep.
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#26 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 05:22 AM
 
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I'm a social worker and there are very clear guidelines as to what qualifies as abuse.

so since you have the official book of what is right what is wrong makes it ok then since it's not "abuse."
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#27 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 05:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Could I be...


Friendly? Yes.

Friends? That would depend on whether this was CIO-lite or Ezzo baby training.

Best friends? No, not during the time they were believers in CIO. Whether or not I intended it, my trust in that person's advice would be affected. On some level I just wouldn't understand them, or feel understood by them. My closest friends are kindred spirits, with basic values I understand.
Exactly my feelings.

, , , and
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#28 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 06:14 AM
 
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Of course! Just like I can be friends with Republicans and Catholics and people who live in cities and vegans and SUV-drivers. I am none of those things. I have made different choices about how to live my life and raise my daughter and I can't expect everyone, even the people I choose to be friends with, to make the same set of choices. My closest friends are country-living, earth-hugging, Solstice-celebrating, Democrats, but they aren't my only friends!
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#29 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 06:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Could I be...


Friendly? Yes.

Friends? That would depend on whether this was CIO-lite or Ezzo baby training.

Best friends? No, not during the time they were believers in CIO. Whether or not I intended it, my trust in that person's advice would be affected. On some level I just wouldn't understand them, or feel understood by them. My closest friends are kindred spirits, with basic values I understand.
Well said- I agree. It's not a question of judging someone for their choices, as though you're dumping them for choosing a nursery decorating style you don't like. It's more that once you feel your values are so fundamentally different, it's hard to feel close with that person any more. That's happening to me right now with an old friend who is due in February and plans to circ and CIO. I'm still hoping she'll change her mind on both, but even hearing her talk about it is upsetting to me. I'm not going to, like, break up with her, but I don't think the friendship will be as strong as it used to be if our basic parenting values are completely different. To me, parenting choices like CIO, circ, and even breastfeeding (barring cases where it was truly impossible for the mama) are tied up with ones fundamental values as a human being. There's only so close I can be with someone who doesn't share my basic sense of what's right and wrong in life.

SAHM to 6.5yo DS and 4yo DD. PCOS with two early m/cs. Married 8 yrs. Certified birth doula, writer, editor.

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#30 of 114 Old 01-20-2007, 06:27 AM
 
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I would lose so much respect for them that I wouldn't be able to be a caring, giving friend to them anymore. None of my friends did/do CIO, and if any who have kids in the future do, I will do everything in my power to stop them as I believe it to be serious child neglect, especially in newborns. It's not about being judgmental and live and let live, it's about a baby crying alone in a dark room, frightened because it's mother refuses to respond. I can't overlook that.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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