No Cry Sleep Solution Support Thread.... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-26-2007, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Liz, I put my baby to bed at 9pm too. I tried doing earlier and she just wakes up earlier, which doesn't work for me as my bedtime stays the same... so then I get even less sleep! She didn't seem to do any better by going to bed earlier, either... though maybe I'll try it again at some point.

I definitely agree with watch the child, vs. the clock. Routine is things in a certain order, not necessarily things on the DOT of a clock.

nylecoj, how old is your little one?

Jen, that is awesome! What aspects of Jay Gordons plan have especially worked for you do you think?

Earthgirl... Is she teething?

We had a rough night last night too, she was up every 30 min until finally at 2am I left the bed. It's weird, but sometimes it seems she is able to *settle* if I leave. Then I think we got three hours. I'm grateful for the three hours! She is still waking every 45 min during naps, and usually every 45 min between 9pm and about 1am. Ugh!
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:26 AM
 
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nylecoj, how old is your little one?
Oh yes, I think someone asked me this earlier, but I've been too tired to remember.

Dd is just over 7 months.
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just found a blog that might be helpful for us. I haven't read anything but the tags (AP) and the title (intriguing).

http://sleepisfortheweak.wordpress.com/

Ha! I told a friend that my baby has decided that "sleep is for suckers!" :
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:44 AM
 
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earthgirl, nylecoj... (and, I should add, anyone else feeling desperate, worn out, cranky, and resentful.) I'm in a good place right now. I'm sure it is going to be brief, but I feel relatively well rested and sunny. So TAG you're it; you guys have to pull me back out of the pits of despair when I fall in them again.

Here's what I think you both need to do. Go on vacation from solving anything for one, hopefully two nights and days. The object is to get as much sleep for everyone, no matter what it takes.

Nighttime:

Try to get comfortable side nursing if you can-- enough to sleep that way if need be. Pull out all the stops. Lots of pillows. Move the bed against the wall to support your back. Try the couch. Try the LazyBoy.

Turn all clocks in the bedroom around. Do not worry about how long you've been awake or babe has been asleep or awake. Just take care of the problem as fast as you can, and go back to sleep.

Get your partner to really step in-- tell him/her it is a disaster plan, you need crisis help right now. If babe wakes again but you know he/she couldn't possibly be hungry, hand him/her of to your partner.

Naptime:
Does babe fall asleep in the car? Get a magazine, pillow, and a soothing CD. Drive on the freeway until babe has been asleep for 10 minutes. Park. Put your chair back. Read magazine for 3 minutes before passing out. If babe wakes up, back on the interstate until she/he is out again. DON"T CRASH.

Does babe sleep on you? In the swing? Do whatever it takes.

Wakes up 30 minutes later? Fine. Chase him or her around vigorously, get as many belly laughs as possible; tire him/her out, and put him/her down again for another nap 1 hour later. You too.

AND ABSOLUTELY NO MOMMY AWAKE TIME WHILE BABY IS SLEEPING. (you could even consider this to apply to bedtime, if babe goes to sleep before you would like to.)

It's just 1 or 2 days to get you back on your feet; then you can do PPO and routine setting and clock watching and log writing all you want.

Distraction is not the same thing as play.
Be part of the diaper free revolution. 

DS1, 6 years.  DS2, 4 years.  DS3, brand new!  (April 2012)
 

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Old 07-27-2007, 01:54 AM
 
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OK, this will probably be long. I've just been in tears most of the day, though. DD had a pretty bad night last night, then woke up @ 5:30. I just feel like my patience is gone w/ this whole sleep issue. I CANNOT get her to nap for more than 30 minutes, no matter what. Then she's tired all day and I spend way too much time trying to get her back to sleep. Or, I spend a lot of time trying to keep her awake so she won't be trying to go to bed for the night @ 4:00. I never get one single second to myself and then I feel guilty b/c when I'm not trying to get her to sleep I'm trying to get stuff done around the house. That, of course, makes me feel guilty that I'm not spending any quality time w/ her. It's all just so awful. I'm supposed to do logs on Saturday, but I'm not going to b/c I know there has not been any improvement. Also, when I try the gentle pull off, that just wakes her up more! I'm just at the end of my rope. I feel too overwhelmed to try to change things, yet I can't stand to leave things the way they are. I don't want to stop night nursing, but at the same time I don't want to be doing it 7 times a night...:

OK, rant over. Thanks for reading. I'm going to go stay w/ a friend tonight whose husband is out of town so I'll check in in a few days.
Oh honey... I am SO sorry... we had a SHI%%* last night too, it was awful... OH I wish there was something we could all do that would "WORK" 100% of the time... ughghghghghg. Having no sleep sucks so bad...
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:56 AM
 
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Just found a blog that might be helpful for us. I haven't read anything but the tags (AP) and the title (intriguing).

http://sleepisfortheweak.wordpress.com/

Ha! I told a friend that my baby has decided that "sleep is for suckers!" :
That's a fun blog... she found my blog one day and commented on it... that's how I found hers! Love how she calls her baby "Loudboy" LOLOL
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:37 AM
 
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Jen, that is awesome! What aspects of Jay Gordons plan have especially worked for you do you think?
For some reason it just clicked with me...more than anyother sleep book or article. Part of our problem i think is dd's eating too much throughout the night. Not just the waking part, but I think she gets gas, etc. when she eats alot.

So, i really like the phase one part...where between certain hours (or time frame) it's sleepy time, not eating time. For me, it was a mind set i needed to change and reading his article helped me with that. Mostly just me having the frame of mind to incorporate the PPO sooner rather than later when she wakes at 12, 2 and 4......ie. not letting her have a full meal until my nip just slips out of her mouth and we both fall asleep together. What i've noticed is she'll latch on to get back to sleep, not intending to eat, but then my let down happens and she'll eat in her sleep! So, if i'm careful with the timing, i can get her drowsy and confident enough to go back to sleep before my let down happens and w/o her eating (too much).

Earthmama, how many hours is she awake between naps? My dd is still on 3, naps a day (she's 6 mos) and her natural bed time is 7. I just really concentrated on extending her naps, which helped her night time sleep. I was also going to ask about the teething thing too. It WILL get better. Just don't think about it for a week...don't read any sleep books, and don't talk to your friends about it...just enjoy your precious dd even at 2 AM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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JenLiz, I might try to incorporate some of that myself. My baby eats too much overnight too, although I think her problem is just that we need to switch her timing. She doesn't seem to get gas or uncomfy or anything... more like part of her diet is just at night right now. Like, half! She is a grazer too, and only eats a few ounces at a time, which contributes to the frequent waking.

Last night was *rough.* She woke up at about 2:30 and just would not go back to sleep. At 4 I finally gave up and got up with her. At 4:30 I took her for a drive. (These two steps were more for my sanity than anything else.) At 5am I got her home and back to sleep FINALLY. But then *I* could not sleep. I tried and tried, but was just too wound up at first, and then I was just lying there *waiting* for her to wake up, and couldn't relax to sleep. *sigh* So I've been up since 2:30. I am so tired.

When I think about it I guess it's not that crazy that she has nights like this... not only is she going through so much developmentally (last night she was not up to eat, or fuss, she was just UP), but her mom has some insomnia issues too! I mean it stands to reason... *I* have nights where I just can't sleep. It makes sense my baby would have those nights too.

But boy oh boy... am I tired.
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:48 AM
 
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Just wanted to lend some more support and join in. I know how frustrating it is, I have been dealing with it for a year - months 9 and 10 were almost unbearable for me. It has gotten more livable but I still have not slept for more than two hours straight in a year. Even when he does sleep longer I wake up - sometimes for hours - I think my body has just reprogrammed itself.

The sleep deprivation is seriously impacting my marriage - I am an absolute shrew - all the time. I seem to be able to hold it togehter for DS but he is witnessing his mommy snapping at his daddy all the time (and the dog) and that is not what I want him to grow up with.

I got the toddler book as DS is one and that seemed most appropriate. Little guy has not slept well since the beginning, 30 minute naps constant night waking etc. Goes to sleep in his crib every night but wakes around an hour later - then usually I go to bed with him and w co-sleep the rest of the night and nurse all night.

anyway, DS used to go to bed around 6:30 as the light changed it got later and later and then was like 10 before he was falling asleep. no rest for me.

I too felt that the early thing just would not work, but I tried it anyway - it was hard work but DS went to sleep by 8:00 for two nights in a row- still woke up an hour later but seems better rested in the morning. We had dinner, I bathed him, put lotion on (try to massage but his squirmy) brush teeth, read books, nurse and then carry him in the mei tai (want to phase out the mei tai but one step at a time).

I just got done blocking out the windows to make his room dark, his room is very bright. I realized I have been putting him to sleep in the light and it might really be affecting him. plus he gets up in the morning in our room which has thick drapes and it is dark - backwards. I also ditched his nightlight. we'll see how it goes.

Just got him down for a nap withour nursing to sleep or walking the mei tai - a first in 6 months! I am not expecting all positives but I am relieved to see any change at all in our sleep routine.

Look forward to hearing more ups and downs from all of you -

also just a thought - if you are documenting some of your nights here maybe you don't need to worry about the journal - you can keep track of your posts to see if there is improvement.
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:08 PM
 
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Ha! I told a friend that my baby has decided that "sleep is for suckers!" :
I say that all the time! I totally want it on a onsie. CafePress, anyone?

I have many of the same sleep issues that others have on this board, but I'm still on the fence on whether it is developmentally appropriate to try to change DDs schedule.

First, she is a terrible napper. Sometimes going down for 30 minutes at a time, maybe only gettling an hour to an hour and a half all day long. I try to make sleep as inviting as possible, bouncing her, nursing, walking, everything I can think of. Sometimes the sleep just doesn't come. This is one area I would like to improve and I think I need to improve for her sake.

Night time is better. DH bounces her to sleep anywhere from 7:30-9:00pm. She usually sleeps a long stretch until 1:30am (sometimes earlier). I then bring her to bed to nurse and she wakes up 2 more times until 8am when we're up for good. I would like less night wakings, but at 5.5 months, is that resonable? These are the two issues I'm wrestling with.

Mama to my beautiful Ana Carolina (2/07), Isabel Cristina (6/10), and #3 on the way in August 2013!

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Old 07-27-2007, 12:40 PM
 
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bdoody - it is reasonable if you feel it is, if it works for you and you feel baby is well rested than don't change a thing. that said DS used to be the same way and then changed - waking every 1/2 hour to hour at night etc.

don't fix it if it ain't broke but also realize as soon as you think you've got a good thing going it will change - they like to keep us on our toes !
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:33 PM
 
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We just had an ugly, horrible, horrible, ugly morning. DD was SO tired but would NOT go to sleep no matter what I did, or didn't do... finally I just put her on the blanket on the floor and let her fuss for a good long time and ONLY THEN did she finally give in and go to sleep after I picked her up to nurse. I DID EVERYTHING. This is SO frustrating!!! I know what she needs and I try and try and try to help but I'm just because SHE WILL NOT LET ME HELP HER... WHY??? She wouldn't nurse, obviously didn't want to be held, I gave her some teething medicine, she wouldn't play, WTF am I supposed to do? I just sat in the chair and sobbed my head off...

:
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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Oh my goodness, I am so glad I've found you! I just got this book from the library yesterday as DH and I are at the end of our ropes. DD is just now 7 months and the sleep situation has been deteriorating since she was 4.5 months old. She is now waking anywhere from every 45 mins to 2 hrs, typically between 1 and 1.5 hours between wakings. : Both DH and I work full time (thankfully, I telecommute for most of it so I can fudge it *a bit*), but only getting 3 hour stretches of uninterrupted sleep less than 3 times in the last 3 months has made both of us crazy and crabby.

I've been reluctant to address this situation as we had severe weight loss issues when DD was a newborn and I've been very VERY eating focused ever since then. (I know, its been 7 months, I can calm down, but I definitely don't want a repeat). And so have been more apt to err on the letting her eat as often and as long as she wants instead of trying to get her to do this on her own. But, I think DD would nurse ALL NIGHT if I let her. Seriously. I nursed her in the sling while we were grocery shopping once, she crashed after about 5 minutes, but kept nursing the entire hour we were in the store. : However, I've been having some luck with the PPO, mostly so I can get some work done.

Things that we are going to work on right away:

1. Naps. I'm going to really be harder on keeping her sleeping that 3-4 hours a day. If you wake up grumpy, its straight into the sling and and we go to sleep. Since DD has become mobile, it is much more difficult to get her to stay still long enough to go to sleep, so we've been using the sling alot to swaddle/cuddle/rock to sleep. Even if it takes up most of my day, I wonder if our nights are as rough as they are b/c she is chronically overtired.

2. Getting DH more involved in getting DD to sleep. Up until now, that's been my responsibility. If he can get more involved, I think she'll have an easier time learning how to relax and snooze without the boob. I'm definitely guilty of whipping it out b/c its there and easy (and she might be hungry).

We'll finish reading the book and figure out what works for us. But, I need this support now. Again, SO GLAD you all are here and we're not freaks for feeling this way.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:11 PM
 
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OH MY GOD...

The unthinkable just happened. Sophie woke up from her less than 1 hour nap and I tried to help her back to sleep but to no avail, of course.

I went to get DS out of his highchair and clean up his lunch mess, then I put more laundry going...

I went in to get her, and...

SHE PUT HERSELF BACK TO SLEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know this is a total fluke and it probably won't happen again, but WOW... let's see how long it lasts, she will probably wake up in the next 5 minutes...
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:12 PM
 
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hannah8ball What's the name of the book?

I guess I should be grateful that my 8 month old DS only wakes me once during the night. He now has a morning nap (30 min to 1.5 hr) and usually an afternoon nap (slightly longer than AM) and then goes to bed between 8:30 and 9:30 depending on when DD goes to sleep.

I've not transitioned him off of nursing to sleep yet and we still co-sleep him so I'm sure we've got a few sleepless nights ahead of us when that happens.

It is great to know that others are going thru the same thing, isn't it?

WOHM (Formerly SAHM) - 2 cuties, 1 old man and a few animals
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OH MY GOD...

The unthinkable just happened. Sophie woke up from her less than 1 hour nap and I tried to help her back to sleep but to no avail, of course.

I went to get DS out of his highchair and clean up his lunch mess, then I put more laundry going...

I went in to get her, and...

SHE PUT HERSELF BACK TO SLEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know this is a total fluke and it probably won't happen again, but WOW... let's see how long it lasts, she will probably wake up in the next 5 minutes...
Liz... : I am getting the impression that progress comes in spits and spurts and randomness, so go ahead and count it as progress! Even if you take ten steps backward later, you saw an improvement. YAY! You definitely deserve to pat yourself on the back.

Everyone, I'm seeing a theme of babies who slept ok until about 4.5 months and then deteriorated rapidly... same thing mine did. So at least we know a) it is normal and b) we are not alone. As for whether it is developmentally appropriate... it is developmentally appropriate to have a mama who is not ripping her hair out from sheer exhaustion. I'm not a very good mama today. Thank goodness my husband stayed home to help me out. I seriously could not handle her earlier, she was SO CRANKY from so little sleep and I... I was just an empty cup, I could not deal. My husband (bless him) too her while I recouped a little.

So, while I understand that it is normal to do this, I think it's also normal for a mama to try to improve these wonky sleep patterns. Happy mama = happy baby!
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hannah8ball What's the name of the book?

I guess I should be grateful that my 8 month old DS only wakes me once during the night. He now has a morning nap (30 min to 1.5 hr) and usually an afternoon nap (slightly longer than AM) and then goes to bed between 8:30 and 9:30 depending on when DD goes to sleep.

I've not transitioned him off of nursing to sleep yet and we still co-sleep him so I'm sure we've got a few sleepless nights ahead of us when that happens.

It is great to know that others are going thru the same thing, isn't it?
Once a night????

I'm *so* jealous.
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Old 07-28-2007, 10:03 AM
 
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I agree about the deterioration after about 4.5 months, it got progressively worse for us. At three months Ds went through a stage where I could put him in the co-sleeper at 6:30 pm and he would sleep until 6 am the next am!!! Of course I was still freaked about SIDS etc. so I woke up every hour to make sure he was breathing, did not need to nurse etc. so I did not get to enjoy the solid sleep!

I also agree, a few step forward, a few back. DS took an 1.5 hour nap yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!! A first in a very very long time. Of course the afternoon nap was 25 minutes and while I did get him to bed at 8:00 again he woke up 40 min. later and I could not get him back down at all for 30 min. so I finally gave up and went to sleep with him.

that is the hard part - fighting your own exhaustion at the same time makes me give in easier because I just want some sleep!
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Old 07-28-2007, 02:18 PM
 
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just popping in to say I really like Dr. Gordon's approach...with one adaption. After I was finally able to put DS down on his own without nursing for hour and a half long naps at 11.5 months old, we decided to tackle nightime. First I started only feeding him on one side each time I woke him up, and switching sides every time he woke up so he'd only get the foremilk. I figured that might help when it came time to nightwean entirely. Not sure about the verdict on that one.

When we started, I read Dr. Gordon's online essay and really liked the way he worded everything, the mindset, and the tips, but it seemed waaaaay too fast for me. So I decided to spend a week at each stage instead of three days, and it's worked really well. I decided to go 7 hours from the last time DS nursed, not from when I laid him down, and try to get DH to do at least one of the nightime wakings because it goes so much smoother than when I try to put DS back to sleep without nursing. We're kind of between the first stage and second stage right now, so I only pick DS up if he's really really not settling down, and I never nurse before 7 hours.

In a few weeks, my son has gone from waking and nursing 4 or 5 times a night to up to 3 or 4 hours at a time without waking now. Other times (like last night) it's every hour. BUT, he's not nursing back to sleep, and he is able to settle down with just a couple of minutes of snuggling or patting on the back.

big thumbs up for the gordon approach I cannot wait for that first uninterrupted 4 or 5 hours....
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was thinking of trying some of Jay Gordon's methods with my baby, except for three hour stretches instead of 7 hour stretches as she is only 7 months old. I don't know if it would work, but I *have* to do something about the hourly waking. I'm just *so* deeply tired. I don't think I realized anyone could be this tired! Are three hour stretches unreasonable for a 7 month old???
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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prettypixels, I think three hour stretches seems very reasonable.

My DS has been getting up so often to nurse at night for so long but I really have finally learned to fall asleep while he is nursing. but I would not like to wake at all every 1.5 hours. I wanted to start with the PPO but I keep falling asleep before I can pull it out! Oh well. I think I will check out the gordon stuff too. I really have so much difficulty with this emotionally - worrying that I am causing psychological damage if I dont meet every single one of my babies needs as soon as he demands it, but at the same time I feel the rest of my life is suffering from the exhaustion...

Anyhow, was going to post about how awful today and last night were and how horrible everything was going despite my new efforts. However I finally got DS down at 9 and it is 10:24 and he is still asleep, granted he will likely wake any minute but I have had some time to myself and can recooperate. I wish all of you the same.
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:34 AM
 
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That's a fun blog... she found my blog one day and commented on it... that's how I found hers! Love how she calls her baby "Loudboy" LOLOL
Hi Everyone, I just thought I'd stop by and say hello, as I saw the link to our blog www.sleepisfortheweak.wordpress.com here

I was reading all your posts and it sounds oh so familiar! We've all been through exactly the same difficulties, actually most of us are still going through it. It's a daily battle.

That's the reason we set up this blog, so that parents with bubbas who don't sleep won't feel like freaks or that they are doing anything wrong. Some babies just don't want to sleep (arrrghhhh!) I can't stand meeting yet another person with a 2 week old baby that sleeps through the night.

Anyway, nice to join your forum and feel free to stop by our blog sometime.

lots of love and sleep vibes to you all

amberjee
www.sleepisfortheweak.wordpress.com
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Amberjee, I read a bunch of your posts yesterday... I really enjoyed it!

Though now I'm so sleep-deprived I cannot remember what I read

90 minute wakings, I think I could deal with. We are still doing EVERY 45 MINUTES ALL NIGHT LONG. I am up now because now I'm so wound up I can't sleep and I just Need. A. Minute. She was just wide awake for an hour after the 45 minute wakings all night. How is it possible for a baby to get so little sleep and wake up with such a huge angelic smile?!?!?!
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:37 PM
 
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Hey Amber! It's Finngarianmama! Cool to see you here!

We had a totally crappy night last night. But it seems like after one really good night, she "pays us back" by making us work for it. *sigh*
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:59 PM
 
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Yeah, the nap help in that book is pretty lacking. That's why you don't remember it! Basically, the nursing or patting back before they come out of light sleep is it. Oh, and she says to have a nap routine that's completely different from the bedtime routine. My DD naps for only 30 minutes, precisely. I have tried multiple times to keep her from waking from light sleep and it DOES NOT WORK. I do keep trying, though. Still, it's pretty frustrating.
Anyone have any ideas for a nap routine?
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:11 PM
 
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Anyone have any ideas for a nap routine?
30 minutes here too, sometimes nursing/patting helps - usually no. The only time he naps longer is if I go to sleep too - we both just got up from a 2 hour nap. But on his own - once in a very very blue moon and of course in the car.

A friend of mine said she watched her son nap and the second he would stir she would pat him on the back etc. to get him back to sleep. She never let him even get to a cry to signal he needed her. She did this for two straight weeks for every single nap and it seemed to work for her.

I could not do this before because I watched another child and he was often up and I could not leave him unattended to sit and watch DS nap. Now we are in the middle of moving and I feel like I have to use the time to pack because it is the only time I have when DS is not helping me UNpack as I pack stuff up.
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:12 PM
 
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duh! that is not really probably what you meant by a nap routine. too tired here.
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Old 07-31-2007, 02:20 AM
 
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someone mentioned dancing with dc to a 5 minute song. I thought that was really great.

We read a very specific book (Just a Nap) and then nurse and rock. Our night time routine is not much different though, so I don't know if that's the best way.

Things here are the same for the most part. She's already been awake 3 times since 7pm and it's now 9pm. DH is handling her though - doctor said we should give that a try since she just wants to nurse and nurse on me and is getting super gassy with a bellyache lately. I'm just glad I am getting a break.
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Old 07-31-2007, 02:55 PM
 
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I am SOOO glad I found this thread. DS is 7 months old and has NEVER slept. We once got a 5 hour stretch but that was around 4 months.... now we are thrilled with a 2 hour stretch. I've Pantley's book over and over and we put things into effect and get discouarged when they dont work. We are just so exhausted. It's good to hear some other mommas going through the same thing and hope we can start to imrpove his habits just a little!

Mama to two boys (1/07 and 3/09) and due with baby #3 in May.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Last night baby girl was awake from about 2am to about 4:30.

I'm *so* exhausted!
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