The Quest to quit CIO - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
1  2
Co-sleeping and the Family Bed > The Quest to quit CIO
sparklemom's Avatar sparklemom 08:49 AM 08-06-2007
yes, you have a naturally entirely demanding chaotic at times scenario when you have multiple children at such young ages. accept that this will require you to be constantly flexible for years. you must keep things in perspective,....that rough moments are sometimes unavoidable, and things will indeed one day get easier.

in the meantime each of your young children are entitled to their share of full respect for their age appropriate behavior no matter how hard it is for you.

you need empathy and support for the crazy selfless moments. you need support and a place to vent and get feedback.

you do not need to justify crying it out or punishing/threatening any of your children. those things are simply not okay...ever.

but it is okay to say "good googalie magoogalie, i'm doing my best but this is hard sometimes!"
there's no magic,...just perspective, and trust that getting through the rough moments with your children's needs met to the very best of your ability....and planning ahead before the chaotic moments to try your hardest to avoid them....will certainly pay off. and it will get easier,...just not yet.

and ps...yes, you can always "redeem" yourself as a parent. children have true unconditional love towards their parents and are resiliant. but it's not okay to rely on their unconditional love as an excuse to cash in on that natural redemption.

NotTheOnlyOne's Avatar NotTheOnlyOne 10:13 AM 08-06-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnD View Post
I am at times as shocked by the question on these boards as by the responses. I found some of the responses as 'cruel' as CIO for the four year old as I do the whole CIO issue. I think telling a four year old to get a cloth and clean the table is a bit unusual (are you joking????).
No, I wasn't joking. I have a three yr old that loves to help out and clean. SHe'll "do the dishes" for 30 minutes. She'll "fold" a load of wash cloths. She'll "wash" everything in sight with a rag and a spray bottle. It makes her feel important and she loves being helpful. I thought perhaps the op's ds would enjoy some meaningful tasks.... if nothing else, playing in the water (read "doing in the dishes" to a 3 yr old) at the kitchen sink is fun.
mamaduck's Avatar mamaduck 10:36 AM 08-06-2007
I read the whole thread, and am not going to reiterate what I agree with.... but I will say that if you have been doing CIO for SEVEN MONTHS, and she is still crying when you put her down -- then CIO clearly did not "work." I do not understand putting a crying baby down and then walking away, every day, for seven months. That is a long, long, long time to be using an ineffective method. I hate CIO in any form, but even people who advocate its use claim that its a training method -- not a way of life.


transformed 11:06 AM 08-06-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herausgeber View Post
Is your health OK? Your support network, etc?

.
noooo. I am just beginning to pull out of a deep deep deep depression (And I dont even know if I am "pulling out" I just know that I am cleaning more)

I had to change my parenting style because ap requires you to meet all the needs of your child and it is completley impossible to do that with more than one child. I should beb able to prioritize betetr though, Like sleep should be a higher priority than it is, kwim?

I am strugling to parent though, because of severe PPD, or depression, it hasnt been completley diagnosed. I didnt get off the couch for 2 months and i yelled at the kids to go play in their rooms. That royally sucked. Thank God I am working on healing now. I had to forgive myself for getting depressed-because I was a bad bad mommy.

Jenny

PS-I dont have a AP support network, I dont know anyone who doesnt spank, shame, cio, etc. I have been attending LLL meetings to try and seek out some simaler parents but support will take some time. First I have to develop the relationships. I really dont have a support network-they all think I am doing my child a great service by cio. My dh can see that when she crys it tortures me to the point of just feeling suicidal and he has started sitting with her, for an hour even, for both of our sanity. I think he is doing it for her too, which means he is coming around!!!!
transformed 11:09 AM 08-06-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by momtosimon View Post
No, I wasn't joking. I have a three yr old that loves to help out and clean. SHe'll "do the dishes" for 30 minutes. She'll "fold" a load of wash cloths. She'll "wash" everything in sight with a rag and a spray bottle. It makes her feel important and she loves being helpful. I thought perhaps the op's ds would enjoy some meaningful tasks.... if nothing else, playing in the water (read "doing in the dishes" to a 3 yr old) at the kitchen sink is fun.

My little boy will sit quietly for a few minutes....Until he feels the need to "HOOT" really loud or something. Boys make loud random noises.
JenLiz's Avatar JenLiz 04:01 PM 08-06-2007
jenny, being open about your depression is brave - i think you're on the right track to recovery. I think posters -- if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. I'm going to send you a PM with my thoughts - this thread is somewhat turning into a flame : and i don't think that's nice (posters, there are other more GENTLE ways to get a point across)...i think there also have been some great ideas...follow those and ignore the others.

let me know if you didn't get my message.
timneh_mom's Avatar timneh_mom 04:05 PM 08-06-2007
I just wanted to add... it's SO hard with two. I keep waiting for it to get better and it is very slow. I have been so sleep deprived for so long that I have had times when I've felt completely crazy... it's so hard!!

Too bad people on this board can't treat each other as gently as they strive to treat their kids... especially when a mom really wants and needs help...
Mary-Beth's Avatar Mary-Beth 04:22 PM 08-06-2007

Hang in there.
Consider some of the advice you've gotten here about using a sling or giving your 4yo something to do while you rub your baby's back to sleep. I took the side off our crib making it a toddler bed and sat in a chair next to the bed holding my dd's hand.
Nothing will work 100%-- there will be days your 4yo will be loud and days he'll be quiet. There will be days with no nap...x

The No-Cry Sleep Solution book may help you out with some ideas.

Your children won't be scared for life by what's already happened. And that type of guilt doesn't really help anyone. Do your best. I know you don't want to use CIO and you don't need a lecture or debate.
transformed 04:30 PM 08-06-2007
Thankfully I am finally getting to a place where the flaming doesnt hurt because I am on a mission and allowing petty insults to affect me would sabatoge the mission.

Thx 4 the support though, this is not an easy job!
Genesis's Avatar Genesis 07:27 PM 08-06-2007
I didn't see any flaming. You were just being told the truth. If you get a chance, check out the CIO links (it's a sticky). They are very informative.
wannabe's Avatar wannabe 08:03 PM 08-06-2007
Quote:

PS-Is CIO more harmful than having the kids not nap, and get the sleep they need to develop properly AND also drive me completley bonkers in the afternoon because - uh-have you been around a 19 m old thathasnt napped?
Yes, I'm sorry, but it is. I believe very very strongly in sleep at any cost - but CIO is beyond cost.

And the 4yo can wait until the baby's asleep to be reprimanded for any misbehaviour that happens during that time.

As you rebuild your trust, and she passes the 18 month seperation anxiety/sleep regression hurdle it will become easier to put her to sleep. When bedtime becomes a pleasant association of love and cuddles it will be easier. Hang in there.
languid_kitty's Avatar languid_kitty 04:12 PM 08-07-2007
Transformed/Jenny, I'd love to hear whether any of the suggestions have helped at all.
BrooklynDoula's Avatar BrooklynDoula 04:30 PM 08-07-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnD View Post
I think telling a four year old to get a cloth and clean the table is a bit unusual (are you joking????).
It wasn't my suggestion but my now 5 year old LOVES LOVES LOVES to clean and will always be happy with a spray bottle and rag or what not
rzberrymom's Avatar rzberrymom 05:05 PM 08-07-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSAX View Post
It wasn't my suggestion but my now 5 year old LOVES LOVES LOVES to clean and will always be happy with a spray bottle and rag or what not
My 2 year old too! Kiddos love to be helpful.
BensMamacita's Avatar BensMamacita 09:00 PM 08-07-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by rzberrymom View Post
My 2 year old too! Kiddos love to be helpful.
My ds loves helping too. My dh and I joke that he's going to be a janitor when he grows up - his favorite toys are his vacuum and broom.

Jenny - I think that you are really working hard to be the best mom you can be, and that is commendable. My only advice is that persistence seems to be the key in setting up good sleep routines. So, if you decide on a course of action, stick with it for at least a few weeks, then evaluate whether or not it's working.

Good luck and I hope that you feel even better in the days to come.
ladybug13's Avatar ladybug13 06:15 PM 08-08-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
When you have more than one child, sometimes they're both needy at once and you can't meet everybody's needs. That's a simple reality of life with more than one child.

You do the best you can- you're only human!

AMEN!

If you aren't intentionally letting your baby CIO and you are doing the best you can to address both demanding kiddos, then DO NOT feel guilty. Babies cry sometimes and it's just reality with more than one kiddo that one is going to have to wait. I fully understand the frustration with the older kiddo being a huge distraction to the naptime/bedtime routine if they are not quietly behaving. My almost 3 year old DS has interrupted and squashed many a "putting-baby-down" effort (which we all know has a science to it) and my DD has been left to cry for a few moments while I get DS situated with something that will allow me to continue with DD.
Genesis's Avatar Genesis 07:04 PM 08-08-2007
Yes, but the OP talks of having to pick a child to comfort. While the 4 yr old and the baby are equally important, the poor baby can not understand why she is being left to cry. It's not right at all to let a baby CIO because the 4 year old is demanding attention.
Genesis's Avatar Genesis 07:06 PM 08-08-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybug13 View Post

If you aren't intentionally letting your baby CIO and you are doing the best you can to address both demanding kiddos, then DO NOT feel guilty.
But she says that she has to let the baby CIO because the 4 year old won't be quiet. As a pp said, the baby seems to be getting the short end of the stick.
lolar2's Avatar lolar2 07:13 PM 08-08-2007
Maybe I missed something, but have you considered sending the 4yo to preschool? If he isn't up for it, I understand; but your post sounded as though what he really wants is a place he can make noise and run around. Not so much mama's attention as a way to have fun and be sociable in general. If you can find a preschool that he'd like that happens to coincide with baby's naptime, then he won't disturb the baby's nap because he won't be home. Obviously this doesn't apply if you are planning on homeschooling or if you don't think he would like preschool, but if you talk to him about it he might be interested.
Parker'smommy's Avatar Parker'smommy 07:40 PM 08-08-2007
My suggestion might not be the most "natural" but it is what I did when my then four year old quit napping ( Before that I would nurse dd while patting ds' back and have them go down for a nap at the same time...blissful!).


When he quit napping regularly I.....put on a tv show for himing. He doesn't watch a whole lot of tv and I let him watch anything he wanted ( within reason) while I put dd down for a nap. He was told to not bother me during this time, and if for some reason there was an emergency he was to sneak into the room, quiet as a mouse and motion to me, and NOT TALK!!! I then explained that if he watched the show and didn't bug me and I got dd down for a nap I would do something special with him. He understood that if I couldn't put dd down, we wouldn't be able to have our *special time* together. This went the same for being loud and waking her up, which then I would have to go in and settle her down. I'm pleased to say that it has worked and continues to work now that he is 5. Yes, he watches a 30 min. cartoon every day, but then we play a board game, do some art, play, whatever every day too, alone. And he loves the individual attention.

Good luck!
leila1213's Avatar leila1213 07:42 PM 08-08-2007
Jenny, where in FL are you located? I am in Pinellas County. LLL meetings are a good start as far as support.
wannabe's Avatar wannabe 02:41 PM 08-09-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker'smommy View Post
My suggestion might not be the most "natural" but it is what I did when my then four year old quit napping ( Before that I would nurse dd while patting ds' back and have them go down for a nap at the same time...blissful!).


When he quit napping regularly I.....put on a tv show for himing. He doesn't watch a whole lot of tv and I let him watch anything he wanted ( within reason) while I put dd down for a nap. He was told to not bother me during this time, and if for some reason there was an emergency he was to sneak into the room, quiet as a mouse and motion to me, and NOT TALK!!! I then explained that if he watched the show and didn't bug me and I got dd down for a nap I would do something special with him. He understood that if I couldn't put dd down, we wouldn't be able to have our *special time* together. This went the same for being loud and waking her up, which then I would have to go in and settle her down. I'm pleased to say that it has worked and continues to work now that he is 5. Yes, he watches a 30 min. cartoon every day, but then we play a board game, do some art, play, whatever every day too, alone. And he loves the individual attention.

Good luck!
if someone tries to tell you that TV is worse than leaving the younger one to CIO, then let me at 'em! we don't really do TV, but that's what it was invented for - to keep older kids busy while you put the baby to bed.
transformed 03:01 PM 08-09-2007
Sorry I disapeared. I lost track of the post a little bit because we just got done with our "weekend" (dh is off work tues/weds) I dont get online alot. :-)

Things have been going pretty well-I cant think of a time in the last week she has had to cry to sleep. (Except last night but we were in the car for 2 hours at bedtime and she wasnt happy about it, Not alot we could do but not go crazy!!!)

Today for nap, my baby told me to go away. So I did. She whined for a minute but didnt cry, and I didnt go back. I offered to rub her back and she said no, and I offered to "sit" and she said no. So, mabye my little independant girl is back, LOL.

I dont think I scarred her-it didnt take long to rebuild trust. I can tell in her eyes that she isnt worried.

I am nervous though, because I think the whole problem originally was depression and I am forever scared that I will fall back into it. But I am under care for it-without meds at the moment so hopefully someone will catch it before it happens.

Its a bummer to have to deal with depression while being a mommy because there is so much guilt ALREADY and then you add that in and its just so hard.

I am doing pretty well though. I am glad I am no longer depressed.

Jenny
Mary-Beth's Avatar Mary-Beth 03:14 PM 08-09-2007
Glad things are going better. Continue to take care of yourself.
Hopefully some of the ideas suggested here will work for you as the need arises.
prettypixels's Avatar prettypixels 12:27 AM 08-10-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by languid_kitty View Post
I'd like to add another vote for babywearing. There have been so many other responses that the suggestions of babywearing may have been overlooked, or you may feel that you can't do it while pregnant. I admit that I haven't tried to babywear while pregnant, but I know that you can safely do a back carry in a mei tai, wrap, or some soft-structured carriers while pregnant.

I thought there was no way my kiddo (15 months) would fall asleep while on my back, but one seriously cranky, teething, no nap day I tossed him up on my back, got out the carpet cleaner and took out my frustrations on the carpet. The combination of being snugged up against my back and the white noise from the carpet cleaner had him out like a light within minutes.

I did feel like a contortionist getting him off my back, though. :-P
Check out this video for an easy way to get out of a back carry...
http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n...t=MVI_1030.flv
1  2

Up