I didn't know CIO was SO pervasive - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 41 Old 09-29-2007, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow... I had no idea that CIO sleep training was so widespread. The other week I borrowed a book from the library to get some tips on introducing solids. I found a book that was about babies' development from birth to one year and nutrition. The recipes looked good so I got it.

When I flipped to the 4-6 month section, it casually mentioned "controlled crying" as a way of teaching a baby to sleep! I had seriously not heard of CIO for young babies until I had my daughter, otherwise on TV shows like Supernanny or Nanny 911 before I became a mother. No alternatives whatsoever were given!

My family are v mainstream in a lot of ways but co-sleeping is just the norm(my folks are Jamaican). Heck I slept in my parent's bed often as a kid!
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#2 of 41 Old 09-29-2007, 07:37 PM
 
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Crazy, isn't it?
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#3 of 41 Old 09-29-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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It's sad to me that it is so pervasive and that most popular culture doesn't suggest any alternative. I mean, even if you don't co-sleep there are so many other things you can do that do not involve CIO. A lot of my friends are pretty mainstream (and childless) and they just flat out do not get why I do it. I sure hope they change their minds when they have kids.
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#4 of 41 Old 09-30-2007, 08:52 PM
 
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I know NO ONE in real life who doesn't CIO. Not a single person. And my online May 2007 babies group (we met on a more mainstream message board when we found out we were expecting) is pretty much all already going that way. There are about 20 of us who post regularly, and I'd say 10 are already doing CIO (the babies are 4 to 5 months old now) and many of the rest are thinking about it.

So it's REALLY REALLY hard when I'm exhausted and sleep deprived to continually be asked "is she sleeping through the night yet?" and then when I say "noooo, waking up to feed 2-3 times still," hearing "she's supposed to be over that by this age, right?" No one gets why I would not want to leave her in a room to cry alone inconsolably in the dark. I think the lack of support is as tough as the lack of sleep.
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#5 of 41 Old 09-30-2007, 09:27 PM
 
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I posted something in my blog about how I do not understand and cannot figure out the behavioral/learning theory justification behind CIO, and I got snarky responses about how cosleeping doesn't work for everyone. :

Call me crazy, but it seems to me that you can leave a cosleeping baby to cry alone in the family bed, and you can comfort a baby who is sleeping in their own bed. But no, it's so pervasive that cosleeping or CIO are apparently the only options.

I don't get it.
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#6 of 41 Old 09-30-2007, 09:38 PM
 
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Well, I think cosleeping covers a lot of bases, really. I know cosleeping families who have a crib in their family bedroom, families who have mattresses on the floor, families who have cosleepers attached to their beds, and families who have all their kids in a big happy pile in a king and full pushed up against each other.

Honestly, I think that the AP moms who do not share sleep spaces are still kind of cosleeping in a lot of ways--they do nighttime parenting in the same way that I do. When our children need us, we attend to them. In some ways, then, cosleeping and CIO are the two options!
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#7 of 41 Old 09-30-2007, 10:07 PM
 
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Oh heck yeah, it's everywhere. It's "the" thing to do in the mainstream parenting world wrt sleep. You MUST sleep train your baby, says everyone. :

We didn't/don't cosleep, but we sure as hell don't/didn't CIO. What I don't get is, all the info about how bad it is to CIO your child aside, how can anyone's nerves STAND it??? I mean, I really and truly don't understand how anyone...any MOTHER...can stand there and do NOTHING to comfort her child when s/he is screaming their guts out. My ds screamed and screamed (colic), but by God he was screaming in my arms with me trying to soothe him (and sometimes crying along with him) the whole time.

My lightbulb moment was when I read a line in Dr. Sears' Baby Book that said something like, "children need to be parented to sleep." That resonated with me.
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#8 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 03:08 AM
 
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I posted something in my blog about how I do not understand and cannot figure out the behavioral/learning theory justification behind CIO, and I got snarky responses about how cosleeping doesn't work for everyone. :

Call me crazy, but it seems to me that you can leave a cosleeping baby to cry alone in the family bed, and you can comfort a baby who is sleeping in their own bed. But no, it's so pervasive that cosleeping or CIO are apparently the only options.

I don't get it.

Me neither. I HATE books that say you either use CIO (or CC) or suck it up, and those are your only options. There are people here who say that, too. I've seen people caned for wanting to alter their child's 'natural' sleep patterns in any way shape or form, even if the parents are doing things that sabotage the child's sleep like watching TV before bed.

There are so many thing between doing nothing and giving up on the kid.

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Honestly, I think that the AP moms who do not share sleep spaces are still kind of cosleeping in a lot of ways--they do nighttime parenting in the same way that I do. When our children need us, we attend to them. In some ways, then, cosleeping and CIO are the two options!
Oh, please, give non-co-sleepers some credit. There's no need to be patronising and even more judgmental about how co-sleeping is the only possible way to be a good parent. Don't condescend to those for whom not sharing a sleep space is the right thing to do.
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#9 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Me neither. I HATE books that say you either use CIO (or CC) or suck it up, and those are your only options. There are people here who say that, too. I've seen people caned for wanting to alter their child's 'natural' sleep patterns in any way shape or form, even if the parents are doing things that sabotage the child's sleep like watching TV before bed.

There are so many thing between doing nothing and giving up on the kid.



Oh, please, give non-co-sleepers some credit. There's no need to be patronising and even more judgmental about how co-sleeping is the only possible way to be a good parent. Don't condescend to those for whom not sharing a sleep space is the right thing to do.
Oh absolutely, ironically my baby sleeps in a cot next to the bed, not in our bed!

I agree, most books/articles I've come across only mention the polar opposites - CIO/martyrdom - thank goodness for the likes of NCSS
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#10 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 05:56 AM
 
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yeah, CIO is the "norm"...so sad!

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#11 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 06:18 AM
 
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We don´t co-sleep. DD has her own crib in her own room. It has been this way ever since she was 3 months old. Never once did I let her CIO. Anytime I heard her fuss I was in there, even if it meant dragging my butt out of bed at all hours of the morning. My child may have been in a different room, that was my choice to put her in there, but I´m not going to make her suffer for it. I´m still her mother.

It got tiring but eventually she was sleeping through the night. It wasn´t the result of any sort of ¨training¨ or goal I had. She just did. Ironically my child ¨slept better¨ than my friends children that were the same age that were ¨sleep trained¨ I feel that she is secure in that she knows that even though she is in a different room that I will always be there for her. She very rarely cries when put to bed. And she is wide awake when I put her down. Sometimes she will even grab for her crib to get in! So when she fusses I know something is wrong with her...I don´t just chalk it up to her being difficult or ¨spoiled¨ and let her scream until she goes to sleep.

So no, CIO and co-sleeping are not the only options. I don´t think co sleeping is bad...but I just personally didn´t want my DD in bed with me. Shoot half the time I don´t want DH in bed with me (mega squirmers both).
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#12 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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Oh, please, give non-co-sleepers some credit. There's no need to be patronising and even more judgmental about how co-sleeping is the only possible way to be a good parent. Don't condescend to those for whom not sharing a sleep space is the right thing to do.
Did you misunderstand my post?

I agree with you. I was saying that AP mothers and fathers who do not technically share sleeping space are still "cosleeping" because they tend to address their child's needs in the same manner that I do--when they need their issues addressed. I have zero issue with families who do not share a family bed.

I was talking about the schism in terminology--if it's either CIO or cosleeping, and in that case, parents who attend their children ARE cosleeping (even if that happens in another room).
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#13 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 08:25 PM
 
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how can anyone's nerves STAND it??? I mean, I really and truly don't understand how anyone...any MOTHER...can stand there and do NOTHING to comfort her child when s/he is screaming their guts out.
Oh, well, they hate it too. At least any that aren't pathologically cold. All my friends do this, and they tell me that they sit there sobbing themselves in another room. One of them said that her husband had to physically hold her down to keep her from going into the room - they'd agreed to it during the day, but when night would come and the baby would cry, she'd want to go to her, and he'd literally sit on her. So it's not that they CAN stand it, just that they're so convinced that it's the only/best thing to do that they make themselves do it, somehow.

Of course, I do also know a few people who were so cold as do TURN THE MONITOR OFF so they didn't have to hear it... luckily I don't really hang out with them anymore (not for that reason -- they happened to move to another state after having the baby), so I don't have to hear about it. I'm not sure I could respond politely to that! (heard about it from my DH; he'd talked to them on the phone after they moved.)
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#14 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 08:56 PM
 
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My friend and I got into an argument about this the other night. If it weren't for you guys, I would go bonkers with the lack of support. Sometimes I feel so alone I can't stand it. DH saw a woman in a sling today at the grocery store and I felt SO UPSET that I wasn't there to "get her number" so to speak.
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#15 of 41 Old 10-01-2007, 10:43 PM
 
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To be perfectly honest I went into this whole parenthood thing completely ignorant and didn't see anything wrong with it. As soon as we tried it though, I physically felt ill. Dh and I discussed it many times at length and didn't always agree. No matter what though, every time we tried (wasn't many, I swear) I couldn't handle it. So I finally just decided that if it makes both of us feel that horrible, we shouldn't be doing it.

And yeah, it seems to me it is a blatant violation of your job as a mother (heck, as a parent) to let your infant cry and not respond to it.
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#16 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 01:32 AM
 
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my mom is SO convinced that dd needs to just CIO. no matter that she falls to sleep easily every night with my husband, and sleeps well all night with us. she was kinda throwing a fit today, a little while after nap and my mom said, well, you should just let her CIO in her crib. ah...like that would have helped??? obviously she was upset and needed me. i just dont' get it. i guess people think that if you do things differently from the way they did them that you are somehow saying how they did them was wrong and judging them for it. i firmly believe that when you know better, you do better. so lets do better for our babes.

ETA: dd is 8.5 months

amanda... lovin' my dh since 2004 and mama to dd (3), ds (18 months) and expecting someone new Oct 2010.
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#17 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 01:52 AM
 
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I know NO ONE in real life who doesn't CIO. Not a single person. And my online May 2007 babies group (we met on a more mainstream message board when we found out we were expecting) is pretty much all already going that way. There are about 20 of us who post regularly, and I'd say 10 are already doing CIO (the babies are 4 to 5 months old now) and many of the rest are thinking about it.

So it's REALLY REALLY hard when I'm exhausted and sleep deprived to continually be asked "is she sleeping through the night yet?" and then when I say "noooo, waking up to feed 2-3 times still," hearing "she's supposed to be over that by this age, right?" No one gets why I would not want to leave her in a room to cry alone inconsolably in the dark. I think the lack of support is as tough as the lack of sleep.
I've read that mothers in Cameroon(?) described the whole American crib system as putting the babies in cages at night. Amen.

One of my friends does the CIO thing and when she stayed with us for a week, her son sounded so miserable because he was sleeping not only apart from her, but in a completely strange place. I kept my mouth shut and let her give me all kinds of parenting advice about why I needed to get my kids out of my bed.

Personally, I'm hoping the bond stays forever and that when they grow up, they move in next door (or upstairs while DH putter around on a ground-floor apt.) and have their own kids piled up in bed with them.
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#18 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 02:01 AM
 
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I've read that mothers in Cameroon(?) described the whole American crib system as putting the babies in cages at night. Amen.

One of my friends does the CIO thing and when she stayed with us for a week, her son sounded so miserable because he was sleeping not only apart from her, but in a completely strange place. I kept my mouth shut and let her give me all kinds of parenting advice about why I needed to get my kids out of my bed.

Personally, I'm hoping the bond stays forever and that when they grow up, they move in next door (or upstairs while DH putter around on a ground-floor apt.) and have their own kids piled up in bed with them.
I think that sometimes it does. DH's parents were pretty AP without knowing about the label. They co-slept not as a permanent thing but definitely allowed the kids into bed whenever, and when they were babies they bed shared. Nowadays, the brothers still come to visit mama and are very attached to their family, more so than most people our age, and DH of course practices co-sleeping.
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#19 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 10:23 AM
 
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It is very sad hearing about babies having to CIO.

I read on another message board about a mom whos 4 month old was "too clingy" and was making life just "too hard" so the mom set her on the floor, left the room, and let her "scream her head off" for an hour. : : : In the mom's words, the LO needed to "Learn not to be so cligy."

I really don't get it.
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#20 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 10:39 AM
 
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My family are v mainstream in a lot of ways but co-sleeping is just the norm(my folks are Jamaican). Heck I slept in my parent's bed often as a kid!
Hey Mummyc - love the name.

My family is Jamaican too and I slept with my parents a lot as a child, but when it comes to MY children, I find that a lot of my family, especially my mother, thinks that CIO IS the way to go. They think he needs to learn to fall asleep "on his own," and that any other route, including co-sleeping as an infant, is spoiling. Same goes for wearing him in a sling, nursing past 3 months, etc. :

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#21 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 11:01 AM
 
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It is very sad hearing about babies having to CIO.

I read on another message board about a mom whos 4 month old was "too clingy" and was making life just "too hard" so the mom set her on the floor, left the room, and let her "scream her head off" for an hour. : : : In the mom's words, the LO needed to "Learn not to be so cligy."

I really don't get it.
I read a book years ago (I think it was Milk, Money, and Madness but I'm not sure) where the authors said that in the earlier part of the 20th century, it was common for doctors to have "too clingy/fussy" babies admitted to the hospital for a few days, and denied all contact with their mothers.

I can't imagine thinking that was okay -- but apparently some mothers were willing to do it "on doctor's advice."

Some people have weird perspectives on what's healthy for babies. Once a friend of mine lost her children for 3 months to foster care. I was talking with a mutual friend about how sad it was that the younger children had to stay in separate homes from the older.

My friend said she was more concerned about the older children, since they had some understanding of what was going on, and were probably worried. She thought the 3yo and 17-month-old were "fine," since they had no idea what was going on, and were probably just having fun going to daycare and playing with new kids.

These children had never been away from family before -- but my friend thought foster care and daycare would be a "fun change" for them? I was just astounded that she'd see it like that.:

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#22 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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I'm suddenly so angry about the entire thing.

A pp mentioned that people seem to feel judged by virtue of you making a different parenting choice, and ITA. What I don't get is why people feel the need to judge you and say, "You are creating a monster," "She should be out of your bed," etc.?

I don't sit around telling my CIO friends how effed up I think what they are doing is. (And I'd like to, trust me, but I'm working on tact)

Someone I know IRL just tried to call me a lousy parent because DD doesn't sleep well at night - wakes up between 4-10 times depending on the night. She actually said I was being used as a pacifier and that my child only needs to eat three times a day and should really be sleeping in at least 4 hours blocks per night.

Or what? That's what I want to know.

(Dd is only 9 mos)
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#23 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 05:42 PM
 
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Since parents who inflict CIO on their babies, are suppressing their own instincts because of misguided advice that they HAVE to harden their hearts against their precious infants -- it stands to reason that they have to look for the holes in what we're doing.

Otherwise -- if our babes can really turn out okay even if they're nursed on cue and snuggled next to a warm body all night -- CIO parents would have to admit they're hardening their hearts for no real purpose.

In contrast, AP parents shouldn't feel as much need to "look for the holes" in what the CIO parents are doing -- because we're doing what feels right and what makes us and our babies happy.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#24 of 41 Old 10-02-2007, 08:11 PM
 
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I agree with you. I was saying that AP mothers and fathers who do not technically share sleeping space are still "cosleeping" because they tend to address their child's needs in the same manner that I do--when they need their issues addressed. I have zero issue with families who do not share a family bed.

I was talking about the schism in terminology--if it's either CIO or cosleeping, and in that case, parents who attend their children ARE cosleeping (even if that happens in another room).
That's not a choice of CIO vs cosleeping. That's a choice of responsive vs nonresponsive nighttime parenting.

I think it's kind of silly to say that parents who respond to their kids are cosleeping, even if the kids are sleeping in another room.
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#25 of 41 Old 10-03-2007, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey Mummyc - love the name.

My family is Jamaican too and I slept with my parents a lot as a child, but when it comes to MY children, I find that a lot of my family, especially my mother, thinks that CIO IS the way to go. They think he needs to learn to fall asleep "on his own," and that any other route, including co-sleeping as an infant, is spoiling. Same goes for wearing him in a sling, nursing past 3 months, etc. :
Oh my fam are BIG on the whole "spoiling" theory : . I'm often told to put the baby down! She's 7 months next week, and I'm gettng quizzed on when she's gona get off the breastmilk and onto a bottle *sigh*... sleep is where my mother and I agree - that and not leaving a baby to cry for the heck of it.
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#26 of 41 Old 10-03-2007, 02:57 PM
 
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Oh my fam are BIG on the whole "spoiling" theory : . I'm often told to put the baby down! She's 7 months next week, and I'm gettng quizzed on when she's gona get off the breastmilk and onto a bottle *sigh*... sleep is where my mother and I agree - that and not leaving a baby to cry for the heck of it.
Heh. My dad was living with us for a while and said that dd was manipulative and spoiled. I couldn't believe it. (She was probably the same age as your dd now)

I told him that was a very mean thing to say and that I'm very sorry his mother talked to him that way.

He laughed it off, but has never said anything about her being spoiled since.
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#27 of 41 Old 10-03-2007, 05:16 PM
 
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I just met with a meetup.com moms group in an attempt to find some other sahm's in my town. The mother of 18mo twins, after finding out that my dd (5 mo) doesn't sleep through the night (why should she?), said, "Oh, I Ferberized them." The other moms there agreed that, "Sometimes you have to," while giving me looks that implied that I just don't know what it's like yet. :

I said, "Oh, how sad for them." I'm glad that they are twins, and at least had each other while they were sobbing. DD and I won't be meeting with them anymore. I'd rather be isolated than preached to.

Mommy to DD 5-07
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#28 of 41 Old 10-04-2007, 10:00 PM
 
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This has depressed me to no end. I read books that say CIO is no longer the thing to do, that things have changed, and I think to myself, "not where I live!" A friend even offered to come over and sleep train my baby FOR ME when I was having a rough time of things.

Recently I overheard a mom saying she turns her a/c on high to drown out the screams. It makes me feel physically ill. Another mom on a mainstream board wanted to read the Ferber book to deal with jet lag! How ignorant can you get?!?

Ugh. It IS really pervasive. I've had neighbors, friends, all kinds of random people just look at me like I'm crazy when I admit my babe doesn't sleep and I won't do CIO. BTDT moms look at me like I am so naive, i just have to get over myself. I've relaxed more now that I'm an old-timer (HAH HAH!) and feel pretty confident about saying "I don't believe in that" if/when people with slightly younger babes ask me about sleep. Some say things like "I didn't believe in it either, but it worked or wasn't so bad" and then there are others that look at me kind of wide-eyed, like "there's another option?"

Of course I don't have a champion sleeper, but I've just found a place of peace about it, and whatever happens on any given night, I'm ready for it, whether it's 5-6 wakings or just one. I can take it (my kiddo is almost one)! :-)
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#29 of 41 Old 10-05-2007, 01:20 AM
 
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Yeah, despite it being "not the done thing" because of all the research about infant mental health etc, it is still pervasive here in Australia too - though I know plenty of mums who have persisted with gentle techniques too. A lot of mums start out gentling their babies, but start letting them cio because babies have reached some arbitrary age, or mum is pregnant again and can't deal with (perhaps a protracted) settling.

It doesn't help that many of our "parenting centres" (colloquially called "sleep schools") still practise controlled crying to get babies to settle by themselves and to sleep through the night. I watched (in sick fascination) on tv a program which showed a couple with a 10 month old staying for a week at one of these centres. They basically did controlled crying straight away, and the parenting expert, who was guiding the parents, told them "it's ok, she knows she's safe because you've been in there to reassure her."

Well, um, she was in a strange cot in a strange room, and daddy went in for about a minute to say "it's ok, go to sleep" every so often, without any eye contact or cuddling, and she was screaming.

Even if there was a lot of "behind the scenes" comforting and gentle bedtime routine etc etc, it was not shown on the screen - so folks at home with a "bad sleeper" could just assume that it's as easy as putting them in their cot and using the controlled crying methods. Ugghh.

I feel like a freak sometimes, because I am the only one I know who stays with their 1 1/2 yr old dc every bedtime until they are asleep (let alone nurses them to sleep). Apparently, everyone else's dc goes to sleep on their own, whether they have done cio or not.
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#30 of 41 Old 10-05-2007, 03:12 AM
 
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DS cosleeps with us right now but that is mostly b/c he's nursing a lot at night still and right now he "shares" a rm with DD. He's bed is in there but he doesn't sleep in it b/c I don't want him waking her up at night. With DD she stayed in our rm in a bassinet for the 1st couple of months and then in the playpen by us until she was 6mo. After that I put her in her own crib in her rm. Although I'm not much for cosleeping really I've never let my babies CIO. I've always gone to DD and comforted her when she cried. I'd rock her or sing to her or something til she calmed down then lay her back down to sleep.

Now DH and I tuck her into her bed every night and I read her a story before bedtime. If she wakes up at night crying (rare) I go sit with her until she goes back to sleep. (sing, read another story, etc) Sometimes she'll climb in our bed in the middle of the night. I don't make her leave. She gets in bed with me in the mornings after DH goes to work a lot too. I don't think it has to be one way or the other. No I don't necessarily cosleep like a lot of moms here but I'm always there to comfort them and if they need to sleep by me to be comforted I let them. I've even slept in DD's rm before for a while at night b/c she wanted me to stay with her.
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