Originally Posted by Beneath the Rowan
I'll look again at the Calme Forte but I do believe it has caramel = dairy.
And I couldgo on without sleep, but my kiddo can't she has an issue.
She compulsively prevents herself from sleeping, even as a newborn ~ when she begans to fall asleep, she fights it ~ scratching, hitting herself, giggling fits, pinching, full body spasms... and we can't hold her through it (or swaddle her) any more. So hopefully we can work this out but I don't like what I am hearing about the melatonin and appreciate the input, so much!
I have let my kids use Calms Forte.
Hold on, I'll go get the bottle...
Active Ingredients: Passiflora (Passion Flower) 1X triple strength HPUS, Avena Sativa (Oat) 1X double strength HPUS, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) 1X double strength HPUS, Chamomilla (Chamomile) 2X HPUS, Calcarea Phosphorica (Calcium Phosphate) 3X HPUS, Ferrum Phosphorica (Iron Phosphate) 3X HPUS, Kali Phosphoricum (Potassium Phosphate) 3X HPUS, Natrum Phosphoricum (Sodium Phosphate) 3X HPUS, Magnesia Phosphoricum (Magnesium Phosphate) 3X HPUS.
Inactive Ingredients: Lactose
, N.F., Calcium Sulfate, Starch (Corn and Tapiocal), Magnesium Stearate.
It looks like lactose is in the formula...is your dd allergic to dairy or lactose-intolerant?
I wish you luck with these challenges. I know that when my newborn (now 4 mo) was not sleeping for more than 45 minutes at a time, I would sometimes go 3 days with no sleep, and it made me hysterical. So, I can't imagine how you're coping.
Originally Posted by Brisen
The book is "Mother Nature: A History of Mothers, Infants, and Natural Selection" by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy.
I wonder if artificial lights that mess up our sleep cycles have an effect on this.
That book is great, isn't it?
yes, artificial lights definitely mess up/change your hormones. Lighter nights bring your ovulation forward, from memory. The best way to regularise normal (not PCOSy) cycles is to sleep in whatever natural moonlight there is.
i just wanted to pop in and say that melatonin doesn't do jack for me. i don't feel sleepy or anything when i take it. zip, zero, nada. so i guess it's really different for different people--just wanted to offer this to the OP to say it's not this intensely strong experience complete with nightmares and being knocked flat on your butt for everyone
i wouldn't give melatonin to a child. if it is consumed every night over a long period of time, it can slow the (childs) bodies production of the hormone. i'd try herbs for kids valerian or chamomile calm instead. kidcalm is good, too. it's a magnesium powder. the routine part is important, too. take them outside for a bit, have dinner, warm lavender bath, read a book, bedtime.
ot, but melatonin gives me and dh really effed up dreams.
Re. the lactose/ dairy thing
~ dd is completely no dairy (I have and we have a huge familiy incidence of dairy protein and lactose issues and she reacts to it all).
At this point we are just trying to be patient for our doctor's appt.... and sleeping when we can get it. Thanks for all the input.
yikes! glad i came here as i sit next to a bottle of melatonin bought for my ds (almost 3 years old).
we've also had major sleep issues since birth and the recent trend is waking for several hours at night and wanting to get up around 4am. no naps. crashing at 7, but fighting all the way. and acting like a total LUNATIC during his waking hours.
the ped suggested melatonin for a max of 2 weeks and said that next stop is sleep clinic eval. he said that every pt he's sent to the sleep clinic gets put on melatonin, so i could go ahead and give it a try to see if it "resets" my son's clock.
i bought it at whole foods and the bottle said "adult use only. not for use in children or teenagers". i bought it and called the ped from my car - he still said it was fine. i didn't give it last night b/c i was not home at bedtime and didn't want to not be here if there were some type of reaction. now, i'm afraid to give it at all.
calms forte doesn't work worth a hoot for him. the biggest problem is NOT going to bed. it's the staying asleep, the sleeping til a normal hour, and the acting like a "normal" human child during the day that i'm interested in. he goes to sleep easy b/c he's so darned tired. the other day he was up for 16 hours straight. let me tell you, that was not a pretty day!
Yk, I have lots of sleep issues, always had. So, I was completely devastated when my ds started having these problems after we couldn't swaddle him anymore. He slept great being swaddled - went to sleep easy, stayed asleep, etc. Then as he got older, the swaddle started not being as effective anymore and he had a harder and harder time falling asleep. Around 4 months old, we did it all, nursed, sang, danced, walked, put on background noise, didn't, yk, whatver. And, now at 16 mos, we are in the same boat, except now he can get up and run away from me and laugh about it, or scream about it. So, I, too, understand how some of you are feeling.
Oh, and naps many times just don't happen at all. I nurse and nurse and nurse and he still wants to get up and play deliriously. Goes on for hours after he seemed really tired and I attempted a nap. ??? If he's teething - forget it.
But, this is actually really made me think. Why is it that some of our children are having such difficulty winding down, relaxing, and falling asleep?
Can we discuss that a little bit?
Ds has no known allergies. He is sometimes gassy, but he always has been, and it actually never really bothered him too much. And, I hesitate to think its allergy related because he does have nights and days where he goes down easy or easier and stays asleep for a few hours at a time. Then nurses right back to sleep.
Never slept in the car either. Until just recently, he has a few times when its been hours past his normal naptime though.
Anyone else with these sleep issues that were being discussed who swaddled their dc for an extended time. I have heard rumors that this affects a child's ability to fall and stay asleep on their own. Or, how many of your dc's have allergies or suspected allergies?
The waking is more understandable to me. However, the not being able to go to sleep despite the nursing and all the other things we do to help induce sleep by relaxing our dc's is what is so curious to and concerning to me?
A search on Melatonin in the Special Needs forum would be good. It's fascinating! MANY SN families utilize it with great success. The poster Gottaknit had some VERY good information on it and I c&p'd one of her posts elsewhere into a thread in the SN forum (with her permission). She used to work for a well known sleep doc, so I felt that her information was quite important to have.
I would (and did) first try other methods before resorting to melatonin, just because that's what I like to do.
I would recommend Calms Forte (if you can), chamomilla (homeopathic remedy), coffea cruda (homeopathic remedy), chamomile tea (my kids LOVE having tea with me), or Sleepytime tea. (We like to use raw local honey to sweeten it otherwise they go on a sugar bender right before bed, which is the opposite of what we're seeking.
I tried all of those things for my ds, but they just don't quite do the trick. He just can't shut his brain off at bedtime. As a toddler we tried everything I listed. We've only in the last 2 yrs started using melatonin, and not even with any kind of regularity.
He can swallow pills now, so we also give him Night Time Herbs (NOW brand), which contains valerian, passion flower, and hops. It helps him relax and settle down and some nights he doens't need the melatonin. We also give our 6 yr old dd the Night Time Herbs. She gets 1, ds gets 2. I take the Night Time Herbs by themselves unless I'm having a particularly difficult time getting to sleep. It works just fine for me.
Another good supplement for helping ppl relax is ZMA, which is a zinc/magnesium supplement. The magnesium is a proven muscle relaxer. A warm bath in epsom salts helps, too,since they contain (or are?) magnesium.
I highly recommend trying all that natural stuff first. If you DO resort to melatonin, get the lowest dose possible, cut it in half or quarters (we really don't need a whole lot) and try to make it 2-stage release. It seems to help ds and I get more restful sleep than other melatonin that isn't 2-stage release.
I haven't read all the posts, but I used to take Melatonin every so often.
I eventually stopped because of how I felt the following day. I was often very depressed and just 'out of it', and I am *never* a depressed or lethargic person!
I would never give it to a child, and I would probably never take it again myself.
I've been thinking about melatonin for my dd but it really scares me. I am just sooooooooooooo exhausted right now that I'm getting really desperate. She has been waking up every 45-60 minutes for the last 15 months and last night got up 6 times in 2 hours.
Calms Forte works okay for her - gets her close to 2 hour chunks
of sleep *sometimes* - could I give this to her every night? I know
that homeopathics are safe but it still feels odd to think about
giving her something every night. Thoughts?