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#1 of 68 Old 11-08-2003, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Today is Day One for me of a gentle sleep training plan (i.e., no CIO plan). Is anyone interested in joining me in a support group and in trading tips on what is working and what is not?

The plan I'm going to start using is based in part on Pantley's book "The No Cry Sleep Solution," though I'm likely to introduce my own variation (and would like to hear about your creative variations too!). I think a support group would be helpful because (as I experienced last night in trying out a few new things) the nights of sleeping through part of ds's nursings are over, and so for the near future I'm going to get less sleep than now. (Ugh!). I'm hoping that there will be a pay off in the end with decreased wakings though.

Here is where we are and where I want to be: Ds is about a week shy of 6 months. We've always co-slept, and I've always nursed ds to sleep. Ds wakes every 1-2 hours to nurse. I function okay because I can sleep in AND take naps with ds. I return to work in 6 weeks, though, and know I can't function like this at that time. Here is where I want to be: I'd like to reduce ds's wakings to 1-2 per night. I want to continue to co-sleep and continue to nurse him to "almost" sleep (then he does the rest on his own). I DO NOT WANT HIM TO CRY.

Here is what I'm doing today at the suggestion of Pantley. FIrst, I'm going to figure out how much he is sleeping by keeping a log of his naps (when, how long, where, what is going on in the environment), his bedtime routine (what we did, what the noise level was, whether lights were bright or dim), and his nighttime pattern (when he wakes, how long he nurses, how he fell back asleep). Tomorrow, I'll total everything to see how much sleep he got, see if I can detect any patterns, and have a base line to evaluate PROGRESS! Pantley says that at his age he should be sleeping approximately 14-15 hours during the course of a day.

Second, I'll make a sleep plan that we will follow for the next 10 days. And we'll start the plan tonight. We already have a set bedtime routine, so here is what I'm thinking of adding to that: (1) dim lights during the hour before bed, and no "games" where he laughs hysterically, (2) no sugar or milk for me anytime near bedtime, (3) a meal of solid foods around 5:30-6, (4) a bedtime of 7:15 or 7:30, (5) as lengthy naps today as possible, (6) dh will take ds at his first waking (probably around 9:30 or 10:00) and sling him back to sleep, (7) I'll nurse him after each waking thereafter but try popping him off the boob before he falls asleep (for those of you who haven't read Pantley, this can take numerous times before the babe finally gives up and goes to sleep--I tried it last night and it took ds between 5-10 times of pulling him off and him immediately rooting for it and latching back on before he gave up and just went to sleep when I pulled him off, (8) I'll try to rub his back before immediately offering him the boob when he wakes up, and (9) I'll rub his back while he nurses to help him make an association between rubbing and sleeping. I think that is it for the next 10 days, but I may think of a few more things today to add.

I hope some of you will join me in this journey.
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#2 of 68 Old 11-09-2003, 09:52 AM
 
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I'll support you. I have tried so many things to get my now one year old to sleep. She still doesn't go for more 21/2 hours...ok sometimes 3. I think I have trulbe sticking to a program b/c I am so tired that I know nursing will send her off faster and I don't always have the energy to stick with a regime. I feel very guilty about that. I just ordered a tape that has amoney back gurantee. So if I am uncomfortable with the techniques I will send it back however, it seems good I will let you know how it goes.

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#3 of 68 Old 11-09-2003, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know what you mean about going with what "works" because then we get to sleep faster (though not longer). We made an appointment with a sleep counselor that many have had good luck with--I just want someone to help tailor a plan that works for US. The meeting is on Thursday. Meanwhile, the past 2 nights of trying the new plan have been the most sleepless since he was a newborn! Ugh! It makes me wonder if I'm doing the right thing with pulling him off the breast once his sucking has slowed. It took forever before he fell asleep and then he woke every 30-45 minutes as opposed to every 1-2 hours. Ugh!

What tape did you order hipumpkins?
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#4 of 68 Old 11-09-2003, 10:23 PM
 
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you are smart for doing it at a young age. My DD is 19 mos and is waking every 3-4 hours - STILL. I am ready to nightwean and do something myself. Good luck to you!
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#5 of 68 Old 11-09-2003, 11:56 PM
 
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I'd love to join in with a support thread. Like you, I hesitate to try anything because any changes mean even less sleep for me. BTW, dd wakes every 1-2 hours. Last night was more horrible than normal....dd was awake for over 3 hours from 12:30 a.m. to 3:30 a.m.!!
I've got the Pantley book on hold at the library. Hopefully I'll get it soon so I can follow her suggestions.
I really think it's time to try to makes some changes though. Post how it goes for you tonight. I'll check in the morning.
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#6 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 01:09 AM
 
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So happy to see this thread! I'm doing the Pantley book, but for different reasons. I'm not working too hard on the pulling off thing, because at least for now I don't mind if I wind up nursing ds several times during the night. (he's actually been waking more frequently to nurse lately, since he started teething I think, than before.) But our main objectives are to help him take regular naps and to be able to sleep in his crib when we aren't in the bed with him.

So last week I started to introduce a night time sleep routine. I did it Monday through Thursday nights. It includes a mellowing out playtime with music, a bath, a rubdown with lotion (bath every night can dry the skin!) dressing in pajamas, a song, and nursing to sleep (in the bed, where he stays. ) My son had been going to sleep around 8 or 9, now he's going down around 7:30, without a fight. Tuesday through Friday, my son took naps each day and got a lot of sleep! I know people say that if a baby gets good naps he'll sleep better, well apparently it works the other way around.

We are still not having success with the crib, BUT, my son is willing to hang out in the crib for 15-20 minutes. I mean, hang out not actively playing with it--he had been treating it like an intriguing jungle gym. But over the weekend, he took some rests in it--lying down, cooing and gurgling to himself. This is one of Pantley's ideas, the idea that the baby should learn "my bed is a nice place."

I'm not sure if I should be trying to do the pull-off thing. I'm considering it.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
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#7 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 01:26 PM
 
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Well Rebekah, how did it go last night? The videotape I oredered is called sleep tight. I liked what the website was saying was in the video about not crying to sleep and how some moms feel it is thier lot in life to never sleep. The one thing that makes me nervous about the video is that the doctor who out it together says he can get a baby as young as 8 weeks to sleep through the night. That seems a bit young. He also offers online email support. So we shall see. I will let you know when it arrives and I get to view it.

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#8 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 04:15 PM
 
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Hipumpkins, I took a look at that website and I must say, I'm intrigued. Some of his comments might irk some people, but I thought they were realistic.

I've been feeling guilty lately that I want to make some changes to our sleeping pattern. I've been subscribing to the philosophy that babies don't need to be trained to sleep and that as a mother, I should respond to my baby's needs regardless of what they are. I've been presuming that when she wakes up crying she needs me to nurse her. So, to try to change things means I am not responding to her needs, which leads to me feeling guilty.

However, I think that this guilt might be misplaced. I think I have been encouraging her in what has become a difficult behaviour for both of us and feeling guilty about trying to change it is not going to help either of us. I truly believe that waking 10 times per night is not good for dd. I don't believe that Sears/Gordon et al anticipate this much nightwaking when they advocate cosleeping and nursing on demand so they don't address what to do when it happens.

If I was working out of the home I could not continue with the way things are. I also don't believe that mothers in other cultures would handle it any better. I am saddened that my experience with my dd is making me question whether to have another child. I don't think it's supposed to be this way.

So, enough of me. Please let us know ASAP what you think of the video, Hipumpkins and good luck Rebekah. Let us know how your appointment with the sleep counselor goes.
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#9 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 04:29 PM
 
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Wanting to join in after a particularily sleepless night for me. My dd (almost 8 mos. ) seems to nurse practically all night - since beginning teething 2 mos. ago this has been the norm, using the nipple as her pacifier- with short "naps" about 1/2 hr. long between feedings. She is such a happy, contented, easy going baby that I have related it to her getting all her needs met, and this type of sleep arrangement seems to be one of them. But I am becoming a much less happy, contented easy-going mommy because of it....!!!
I am not so good with scheduling and charting and that sort of thing- maybe it's the only way? I'd love to hear from some "veterans" what has WORKED- without imposing an unnatural seperation upon a happily attached babe.
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#10 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 04:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Island Mommy
I truly believe that waking 10 times per night is not good for dd. I don't believe that Sears/Gordon et al anticipate this much nightwaking when they advocate cosleeping and nursing on demand so they don't address what to do when it happens.
Dr Sears addresses really frequent nightwaking here, as possibly having a medical reason, such as GER (making the point that sleep training would be cruel in this case, if baby is in pain or discomfort):

http://pediatrics.about.com/gi/dynam...%2FT070100.asp

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If I was working out of the home I could not continue with the way things are.
Just pointing out that babies of mothers who work outside the home often reverse cycle and get the bulk of their breastmilk in evening and nighttime feedings.
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#11 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 06:01 PM
 
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This is a great thread! Several weeks ago my dd was sleeping terribly--getting up at least every hour. We read NCSS and started doing several of the steps. Almost instantly things improved. Unfortunately, several weeks later and I am totally sleep deprived again. Dd (now 9 months old) has started waking frequently, getting up at odd hours of the morning and wanting to play (she was up from 2 to 5) one day last week and usually waking for good at 5:30 am! I am a full time WOHM and I am exhausted.

My dh is happy to help in the middle of the night but invariably he get dd to sleep and she wakes 30 minutes later (or 10 or 20). He will go back to her and get her to sleep again and she will wake up minutes later. By this time he has been up for over and hour and it is my turn. So I nurse her and she falls back to sleep. She gets up about 7 times a night. She eats plenty during the day--usually 15 to 20 ounces of breast milk and two small solid food meals. (Plus nursing and one more meal before she goes to bed.)

I think the most frustrating thing for me is that she has no pattern. She will usually do the same thing for two or three days and then will start to do something completely different. This makes it impossible to have a plan and stick to it! She is clearly the boss and we are just responding to her.

I actually have been meaning to reread the book and start from scratch. This support group has given me the encouragement I have needed.

Good luck.

Mama to two wonderful daughers: 02/03/03 and 10/19/05
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#12 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 06:33 PM
 
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I went to the Sears site and he is really talking about infants night waking. I know my daughter does not have GER. She doesn't wake up screaming. She isn't in pain. She just can't seem to get herself back to sleep with out nursing.

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#13 of 68 Old 11-10-2003, 08:00 PM
 
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I also went to the Sears site again and believe that most of his suggestions are geared towards young infants

My dd does wake up crying and yes, I've considered that it might be GERD. In fact, I have a filled prescription for Zantac.

However, the only tests to diagnosis GERD are invasive and uncomfortable for the baby. Most peds do not recommend doing them. Instead, they prescribe Zantac and suggest that you try it for a week and see if it works.

Zantac is a strong drug and no long term tests have been done of its effects on young children. I am very leary of giving drugs to DD. My dh is very opposed.

So, my hope was that if it was GERD, dd would grow out of it. My ped has also suggested that dd may be lactose intolerant, but again this was just a guess and the only option he had was to switch her to a soy-based formula.

My thoughts with trying out Pantley and other suggestions are that if dd responds positively and starts sleeping longer, without leaving her to CIO, then I'll know that she likely didn't have GERD. If I try all these techniques and she still doesn't sleep any better, perhaps we will try the Zantac again, although I know dh will not be happy about it.

As for WOHM, I believe that women who work out of the home and have to drive a vehicle every day and function could not manage long-term with serious sleep deprivation.

DaryLLL, do you not believe that a child could be waking every hour due to sleep cycles and nursing back to sleep for comfort?
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#14 of 68 Old 11-11-2003, 12:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Island Mommy
My dd does wake up crying and yes, I've considered that it might be GERD. In fact, I have a filled prescription for Zantac.

However, the only tests to diagnosis GERD are invasive and uncomfortable for the baby.
But you can just tell by the symptoms can't you, without invasive tests?

pain, irritability, or constant or sudden crying (signs that may be mistaken for colic) after eating
frequent spitting up or vomiting after eating
vomiting more than 1 hour after eating
regular spitting up that continues after the first year, the age when most children grow out of it
inability to sleep soundly
"wet burp" or "wet hiccup" sounds
poor weight gain or weight loss

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Most peds do not recommend doing them. Instead, they prescribe Zantac and suggest that you try it for a week and see if it works.
Well that's what drs do, give out drugs.

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Zantac is a strong drug and no long term tests have been done of its effects on young children. I am very leary of giving drugs to DD. My dh is very opposed.
Rightly so.

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So, my hope was that if it was GERD, dd would grow out of it.
She will most probably, eventually. But what can you do to make her more comfortable in the meantime? Giving drugs is not the only way.

Take a look at this site.

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/reflux.html

Quote:
My ped has also suggested that dd may be lactose intolerant, but again this was just a guess and the only option he had was to switch her to a soy-based formula.
Your dr is wrong. Lactose intolerance in infants is almost unheard of. Galactosemia is a serious disease. More likely she is sensitive to the cow's milk proteins in your diet. Or the soy, or wheat, corn, nuts, etc.

Also, ABM is more likely to irritate the esophagus than breastmilk, which is so natural.

The risks of artificially feeding an infant are so great, switching to soy formula (or Nutramigen for ex) would be a last resort. And then, she might be sensitive to it. Much better to take the untolerated food out of your diet, and keep giving her the kind of milk her body needs.



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As for WOHM, I believe that women who work out of the home and have to drive a vehicle every day and function could not manage long-term with serious sleep deprivation.
That is true, but as a mom of three young children, I also lived in my mini-van! I thought driving my precious cargo around sleep deprived was even scarier than if I was alone driving to work.

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DaryLLL, do you not believe that a child could be waking every hour due to sleep cycles and nursing back to sleep for comfort?
It could be possible, while unusual. Every 2-3 hours, yes. Every hour, no. And as you say she seems to be crying in pain, and staying awake for hours in the middle of the night as well, that does not sound right.

All 3 of mine were terrible teethers. Esp my middle dd. But the nightwaking would go in spurts, as the teeth moved. It was not every night since infancy of waking up and staying up. I just rec, don't just think this is a bad habit and you caused it and need to break her of it by using techniques. Perhaps change your diet first and see if she is more comfortable? some mothers say it is hard to do, but the child's personality is so improved, and the sleep so good, the diet change is worth it.

If it is teeth, some moms find the Hylands Teething tablets work. Myself I resorted to reg painkillers sometimes, b/c the baby would be so frantic and I would be falling over from walking the floors. 2 of mine are spirited and really let me know when they were miserable.

BTW, they are all teens now and sleep great. I would too, if it weren't for the hot flashes. Yeah, it's always something.
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#15 of 68 Old 11-11-2003, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, last night was somewhat better but only because I think I slept through a feeding or two. Last thing I remember is ds waking around 11:30 and nursing him to sleep and then him waking up shortly thereafter and nursing him. NEXT THING I KNOW it is 4:50 and he is nursing. Did he sleep in my arm all that time nursing on and off? Did I pull him to me at that time and just don't remember? I've never been a good sleeper so this just amazes me. I think it is a sign about how tired I am. Needless to say, I didn't do too much "pulling off" training last night.

I did notice that ds went back to sleep once right after he started to stir and I put my hand on his belly. This was a first. He only slept 5 minutes, but this is a big deal. I also had better success with pulling him off and him not rooting around immediately. But this may be because I was so tired that I was letting him nurse to sleep without realizing it.

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However, I think that this guilt might be misplaced. I think I have been encouraging her in what has become a difficult behaviour for both of us and feeling guilty about trying to change it is not going to help either of us. I truly believe that waking 10 times per night is not good for dd. I don't believe that Sears/Gordon et al anticipate this much nightwaking when they advocate cosleeping and nursing on demand so they don't address what to do when it happens.
I know what you mean Island Mommy. I've always responded to ds's needs and always nursed him when he was tired or upset. And as a result he has been such a happy baby. But now, he can't go to sleep by himself and is waking so frequently after each sleep cycle and needing me to put him back to sleep. I'm weary to the core. I loathe evenings because I know that the night parenting begins, and it is so hard. As a result, I'm finding myself thinking of making changes that I never thought possible. And I'm embarassed to admit that here, as I know how most of you moms feel about co-sleeping, etc. And I too have been such an advocate. But I'm tired and I'm dreaming of having a good sleep by myself in my bed. As a result, I'm thinking about purchasing a crib. Anyway, I'm not going to do anything until I meet with the sleep counselor to see what she thinks is going on and offers a plan (I suspect though that what is going on is purely habit on ds's part, but we will see.)
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#16 of 68 Old 11-11-2003, 12:56 PM
 
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Just so you know we do not Co sleep. My Daughter was in a cradle in our room until she was 4.5 months old. Then she was moved into her crib. I have slept in the crib on more then one occasion (her crib has alittle door on it and I am under 5 foor so this is not especially difficult) Off and on she has been in our bed but our goal is to get her to sleep in her crib.

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#17 of 68 Old 11-12-2003, 04:00 AM
 
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I guess we could join in on this thread--we've tried everything and now we're trying some gentle sleep training for 10 mo old DS.

We have particularly severe sleep problems (waking every hour or less, cannot go to sleep without being held and/or nursing, usually needs to be held *while* sleeping, especially naps) because DS has had two open heart surgeries to correct a congenital heart defect. He is also high needs and I am certain this combination (plus 10 months of being held almost 24 hours a day) has made him completely dependent on being near us for sleep.

However, he seems to be unable to stay asleep for longer than 2 hours. This is the maximum even while being held by Dh, which is his absolute favorite sleep position. I suspect he might have some reflux but his doctor doesn't seem to think so. He is fully recovered from both surgeries but just can't sleep on his own, and can't sleep for more than 2 hours at a time no matter whether he is with me or DH.

We have tried literally everything except letting him cry alone. We have tried letting him cry while we patted and comforted him in our bed and in the crib. He just crawls around screaming. We have tried getting him to sleep by carrying him and then laying him down. No matter how many times we try (and we have tried 10+ times per night for a couple of weeks now) he wakes up the instant we even shift position to lay him down. We don't even get near the bed or crib before he wakes up!

We have tried the no cry sleep solution, consistent bedtime routines, nipple pull off, we've even tried nightweaning.

The fact that he wakes so frequently even with DH tells me that it isn't proximity to my breasts that wakes him up. It's something else. We don't know what else to do. Our doctor wants us to put him in the crib and stay with him until he falls asleep but he can't do this. He can't go from angry and crying to asleep without being held.

If anyone has any advice for me I surely appreciate it. The sleep deprivation is ruining our lives.

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#18 of 68 Old 11-12-2003, 09:54 AM
 
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My ds is spirited. He also had to be on my body to sleep for his first 12 mos. I would wear him in a sling and sit in the rocking chair for his naps, as I also had a 3 yo and a 5 yo to watch!

Miraculously, after his first b-day, he started sleeping alone on my bed for naps! And I could nurse him to sleep at night, get up from the bed and he would stay asleep for 2 hours, until I went to bed!

He just outgrew the extreme sleep neediness. We didn't have to do anything fancy except have patience.

I hope yours starts doing this too, soon!
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#19 of 68 Old 11-12-2003, 12:19 PM
 
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Just checking in. Last night was a bit better--4 wakings instead of 5. DD (nine months) went to sleep at 7:30 and got up at 10:30, 1, 3:30, 5. I thought she was up for good at 5:45 but she slept in dh's lap for about 30 more minutes. Dh handled the 10:30 waking so I slept for 4 straight hours!! Heaven!!

One of the things that we have tried this week is to change around our bedtime routine. It used to be that we would do a bath, then massage and books, diaper, pjs, nurse in bed and rock with daddy. I have changed the nursing to after bath and before books. It has taken dh about 30 minutes to get dd to relax enough for sleep the last two nights but she is getting used to it. I want dh to be able to handle a night waking and have dd stay asleep for more than 30 minutes! I don't know if this will ultimately help the night wakings or just transfer some of the work to dh. We'll see.

I have also reiterated for my dh and nanny that they have to try and put her down a bit awake. They are both so afraid that if she isn't sound asleep she won't stay asleep or that she will skip a nap or something. But I have great success putting her down while her eyes are still open and she will drift off. If she doesn't, I will pick her up again.

Oh for those concerned--I am a WOHM but I take public transportation so even on my most sleep deprived days, I am not a risk to myself or others!

Mama to two wonderful daughers: 02/03/03 and 10/19/05
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#20 of 68 Old 11-12-2003, 12:21 PM
 
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Hi there

I have a 2 month old dd and a 25 month old ds. Ds is a champion "sleep fighter" who sleep has improved dramatically in the past year. He has only just started sleeping through the night (has been for the past 2-3 months - yahoo!). We followed ideas from Pantleys' book and also did a gentle nightwean when he was a year old (followed some of Dr. Jay Gordon's ideas)... I just wanted to let you know there is an excellent yahoo group for parents following the NCSS. The url is www.groups.yahoo.com/group/NoCrySleep2

Good luck

Emma
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#21 of 68 Old 11-12-2003, 12:46 PM
 
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Just wanted to point out that studies show most APed toddlers start sleeping through the night (as defined by 5 hours straight, and minimal fuss to get back to sleep), by 2 1/2 yrs, without special techniques or forced night-weaning.


Once they get to be that age, they may need your help to get up and go potty anyway, but hopefully they do that haf-asleep and go right back to sleep.

I know that doesn't help those of you with 9 mos! :
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#22 of 68 Old 11-12-2003, 04:16 PM
 
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Thanks. I know we are doing the right thing by holding him all the time, and frankly I was fine with it at 4 months, 5 months, even 7-8 months. People tell me to ignore the housework etc. This is great advice for a new baby, up to about 3 months or so. But at some point when you have to wade through giant piles of laundry to get to the kitchen where you can't even see the sink something has to change. I simply cannot live for two years being waken up every half hour. No amount of telling me this is normal will help that.

And I am a huge danger on the road--I work 2 days a week and commute almost 1 hour each way with my DS in the car (his babysitter is near my work). On top of that I have to pay a ton of attention to him in the car via singing and reaching around so he can hold my hand because he screams the whole way. Joy!!

However my husband took him all last night so I got about 7 straight hours of sleep. Wow.

Sleepy mom of two (DS-10, DD-7) and 3 lost: 9/2004, 3/2005, 3/2013.  I knit, sew, teach, write, & grow.  

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#23 of 68 Old 11-13-2003, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Steph--your nights sound soooo hard. I'm glad you got some sleep last night. I also had a 4 hour stretch, which felt heavenly. I actually had energy today and felt positive.

So ds slept until 1:30 but then woke up 6x from then until 7:00/. Interestingly, one time I just patted his belly and he went back to sleep! Of course, this was when he woke up after having been asleep only 30 minutes (and he had nursed nearly an hour before that).

We bought a used crib today. And we meet with the sleep counselor tomorrow.
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#24 of 68 Old 11-13-2003, 02:25 AM
 
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just wanted to offer some support to all you mamas......i was in a similar position about 5 months ago. my ds was waking hourly if not more. he wanted the nipple in his mouth all night and i found he really couldn't fall back asleep without nursing. i went stretches where i was sleep deprived and wanted to nightwean and then before i would do anything i would have a few good nights and decide not to. i got to a point, however, where i was becoming very resentful of having to nurse all night long. and i really didn't think it was good for ds to wake up so much. long story short, at 15 mos. we partially nightweaned. and let me tell you, IT MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE. we stopped nursing to sleep although i would offer right before bedtime and i made a pact with myself to not nurse until at least 4 or 5am. i wore a t-shirt instead of a nursing shirt and had a sippy cup on the nightstand. i explained to ds that milkies went night-night and he seemed to get it. he did cry a little, but honestly nothing bad. i prepared myself for the crying and decided if i did nothing else, i needed to be firm.

he now goes to sleep without nursing and usually stays asleep until 4 or so at which time i nurse him off and on until we wake up. if he does wake up before 4, then i just snuggle with him to get him back to sleep.

i don't want to influence anyone to nightwean if there not ready, i just want you to know that it worked for us (at least so far ). we are still dealing with other night time issues (like having to lay next to him to fall asleep, sometimes for 45 minutes or more), but all in all i am very happy with our success.

good luck!

jodi, mom to Joseph, 19 mos.
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#25 of 68 Old 11-13-2003, 02:57 AM
 
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Hi Mommas,

I read all of your posts. My 18 MO DDs both fall asleep in our arms and then sleep together in a twin bed (no pun intended - hehe). They go to sleep around 8-8:30 but sometimes it takes over one hour to get them to sleep. We have a bedtime routine with books, bath, music, milk.

They wake a few times before we go to bed, but seem to be able to cuddle together and fall back asleep. UNTIL... we turn out the lights for our own bedtime. Then they wake and we end up co-sleeping in two separate rooms (mom with one, dad with other). During the night, they wake crying. They are easily cuddled back to sleep with a word and hug from a parent. However they do wake crying 3-4-5-6 times some nights.

I am a WOHM and dh is a SAHD. We are both drained from broken sleep. This past weekend we went on vacation and had a chance to rest. I slept for 3 hours each afternoon! and still went to sleep at 11. I think I'm making up for 18 months of broken sleep punctuated by periods of utter sleep deprivation.

Why do they wake crying? Why do they feel reassured only if a parent is there? Will they REALLY sleep through the night by 2.5 years? Only one year to go!

Thanks for the support thread. I am grateful to you for sharing.

Warmly,
CurlyTop
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#26 of 68 Old 11-13-2003, 03:20 AM
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regardless of what you try to do, you will get more sleep and feel more rested if you start taking magnesium at bedtime and again if you get up in the night.

start with the less expensive magnesium oxide, 2.50 for 100 tablet of 250 mg.

you can search the commune and see our other magnesium helps sleep discussions.

maybe daryLLL knows how to give you the links. sorry.

i had one child who slept all night at 8 weeks. and a 3 yr. old who still nurses in the night. he used to wake a lot more.

they have individual needs.

you may reduce night waking by giving real prioity to awake hours nursing.

1. only offer food on a full tummy of breastmilk. nurse first, food second, but only if he/she will nurse well.

2. don't put baby off when they want to nurse.

3. do what you can to create productive nursing sessions.

4. more earlier nursing, less later nursing. it could be that skipping the 10pm nursing is prompting earlier waking. if i'm up at 10, i'd rather nurse then, than at 3o am

5. examine your diet. remove caffeine, common allergens, etc.

6.MAGNESIUM

rrr
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#27 of 68 Old 11-13-2003, 07:35 PM
 
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OK Magnesium. I got it. Last night we tried hylands calms forte a homeopathic remedy. I put a ground up half tablet in his bedtime bottle. He raced around like a madman for half an hour then CONK! He fell asleep in mid-squeal.

He then slept 8-midnight!!!! Then unfortunately woke at 1, 2, 3, 3:30, 4, 4:30, 5 and up for the day at 5:30. Phew!!

And we are actually nightweaning. Some nights he will go 8 hours without nursing. I am following the Dr. Jay gordon method even though he's a little young for it. He is mostly FFed now anyway (very long story--he has a heart defect and we were separated for his first 3 weeks and I never developed a full supply EPing, yadda yadda) but he still nurses a ton during the day.

Unfortunately he STILL wakes up all night long and now wants to be carried around instead of nursed. Hmmm. I think I prefer nursing! At least I don't have to get up!!

Rebekah tell me about this sleep counselor! I am thinking of asking our ped. for a referral.

Sleepy mom of two (DS-10, DD-7) and 3 lost: 9/2004, 3/2005, 3/2013.  I knit, sew, teach, write, & grow.  

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#28 of 68 Old 11-14-2003, 07:06 PM
 
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Wow! I suddenly feel so lucky, looking at all of your difficulties! My 5 month old son sleeps in a cradle in his own room (since about a month ago--before it was right next to the bed) and wakes up 2 or 3 times per night; but my hubby does the first feeding with pumped milk, so I sleep from 9 until 3 or so, and just get up for the 2nd one. I just wanted to tell you all how different each baby has been for me (I have three boys, 10 yrs, 7 yrs, and the baby). My first slept thru on his own at 5 months, and I can't tell you what a better mom I was after that started happening. I was so overjoyed, energetic, thrilled, etc, that I think Supermom was born that day. I also noticed that my first enjoyed babbling and cooing in his crib for literally an hour or more in the morning before making even one unhappy noise! Time for coffee drinking, showering, and bathroom needs before I went into his room; and what an incredible joy to hear him freeze with excitement when he heard me come in, and then kick and wave and screech so happily when I appeared. This is something that I missed terribly when I coslept with my 2nd son, who never slept through the night unless he was in the bed with me! I loved sleeping with him; but there was never that magic moment in the morning of him suddenly seeing me and greeting me so happily. Yet, having him in bed with me was the only way to get a full night's sleep.

Number three, who I had at age 41 ten years after my first, is different from both of the others! He appeared to hate sleeping in the bed with me; could not settle down; woke up every time I moved my eyelash one centimeter, and became a much better sleeper in his cradle. I'm a little disappointed; but at least I'm now getting that beautiful concert of coos and talking in the morning before I go in, and the chance to have coffee before he gets up. (I work mornings, so the a.m. is of course very tricky, what with having to get out of the house). Moral of the story: you may believe in cosleeping and have lovely ideals floating about in your head; but each baby responds differently to these, and what is "ideal" for one is a disaster for another!

If any of your babies has a sibling, have you tried having them sleep together? That's what we did when we moved my second son out of our bed. They were both so happy together, being able to see each other, that it made for a wonderful bond between them.

Gotta go--baby's up from his nap!
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#29 of 68 Old 11-15-2003, 02:51 PM
 
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Rebekah, we're waiting with baited breath....what did the sleep counselor say?

Hipumpkins, have you received your tape yet?
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#30 of 68 Old 11-15-2003, 06:28 PM
 
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Got the tape yesterday. Some of it really goes against what I want to believe and some of it makes sense. There wasn't too much new information. It had the typical sit in a chair next to the crib while baby falls asleep and every few days move the chair until you are out of the room. What I did learn was something called "natural sleep time" Ok maybe that wasn't the exact words but essentially it said, if you are putting your baby in the crib to sleep and the baby stands up and cries the baby is not ready for sleep. You have to find your baby's natural time. Then create a routine around that...even if the natuaral time is midnight. Then each night start your routine 15 min to a half hour earlier. This will reset your baby's natural sleep time. It seems to me that Johanna's (my DD) natural time is 9:30 so I am going to start her routine at 9 so she learns to be in bed and falling asleep by 9:30. Then each night after the routine is establised I can move it a bit. It shouldn't too bad for me (If this works) b/c I just want her to go to sleep at 8pm. I hope I explained it right.
Anyway...be advised the tape does encourgage scheduling of breastfed babies but not until 2 mos. While I don't agree with that it doesn't really apply to us anymmore. Luckily the only part of the tape that did apply to us didn't have anything that bothered me.

The first rule of homeschooling: water the plants! :
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