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#1 of 18 Old 05-30-2010, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have a 7yo gifted/Aspie girl. Love her to death... but boy, does she think we are stupid sometimes!!!

Her level of sarcasm and rudeness to us (her family members - me, DH, and 5yo sister) is nearly unbearable!!! She is so hurtful and mean to us sometimes. We can hardly stand it.

We have a behavioral specialist and our child psychologist working with us to help us get through this, and help her to get on a better path.

I'm here looking for three things:

1. Commiseration

2. Someone to tell me that from their own experience it will get better

3. And any suggestions on ways to help modify/improve her behavior.
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#2 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 12:36 AM
 
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Well, I can only speak to #3 -

I am currently reading a couple of books about consumer culture and its influence on kids (Born to Buy and Buy, Buy Baby!) and they have been talking about the fact that marketers market to kids and "tweens" using a lot of negative ads that insult parents (and are generally disrespectful). I also personally have seen a lot of that kind of talk on the YTV network we get through cable.

SO, if you haven't already restricted/considered her media intake, I would start looking there.

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#3 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 12:40 AM
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Have you tried telling her "that comment is hurtful" ?

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#4 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies.

She does not watch any TV, so her comments are not coming from that.

We've tried telling her that it is hurtful, but that is not enough to really get through to her.

I hope I was clear by the term "Aspie" in my original post - she has Aspergers Syndrome in addition to her giftedness. Maybe I should post in the Special Needs forum - there might be parents there who understand more of what I'm talking about...?

I posted in the gifted forum because I'm wondering if parents of other gifted children find this happening to them - where their child is so bright, that they feel their family just doesn't "get" anything and is dumb by comparison?

Maybe it is just us.
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#5 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 02:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamasaurus View Post
Maybe it is just us.
I'm sure that it isn't just you. My girls aren't too bad in that regard, but our oldest can be a bit on the obnoxious side toward her sister at times. When dd11 is winning at a game and her sister is getting upset, I've heard the comment from dd11 that she is "distantly related to God" which is a fairly poor winner approach and makes her sister even more mad.

From the GT kids I've known who also have Asperger's, it does seem that the difficulities are compounded by the child seeming to believe that s/he is simply stating a fact: I'm smarter than you, and not understanding fully how offensive that type of remark may be to the recipient.

I know that there are some 2E forums around. Let me see if I can find some links and I'll be back...

Okay, me again. Have you checked out Uniquely Gifted to see if they might have any resources for you? Another place to check might be the 2E Newsletter website. They have a blog and other resources on their website.
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#6 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamasaurus View Post
We have a 7yo gifted/Aspie girl. Love her to death... but boy, does she think we are stupid sometimes!!!

Her level of sarcasm and rudeness to us (her family members - me, DH, and 5yo sister) is nearly unbearable!!! She is so hurtful and mean to us sometimes. We can hardly stand it.

We have a behavioral specialist and our child psychologist working with us to help us get through this, and help her to get on a better path.

I'm here looking for three things:

1. Commiseration

2. Someone to tell me that from their own experience it will get better

3. And any suggestions on ways to help modify/improve her behavior.
1.

2. DD is not on the spectrum, and DS is quirky/has spectrum-like behaviours though is not on the spectrum. This is not part of his MO, but is certainly part of DD's. One of the challenges of parenting complicated kids is that sometimes we don't know what's the source (is the nasty, disdainful approach related to age, temperament, giftedness, ASD...?), and the best approach might lie in one of those aspects or another. DD's nastiness/disdain is usually driven by anxiety, which can co-occur or form part of ASD, as I'm sure you know . I can say that DD has made progress on working through her anxieties, but we're also now working with tweener developmental stuff (as in, it's like the terrible twos are back!). I don't know if any of this is relevant for your DD, but I'm trying to lend what support/insight I can .

3. We have sat down with DD and explained our expectations, with examples ("the rules"). When she gets like this, depending on how it's playing out, I tend to use two approaches:
a) calm, friendly, offer her a rewind "would you like a rewind to start that again?" or "hey, that was not a tone that is acceptable to me [I'm also working on modeling personal boundaries for her other social relationships], how about you try a rewind?"
b) acknowledge that she's feeling anxious and help her calm down - for her, it's through physical connection and commiseration.

I think the SN board would be a good place to post. There are a lot of really resourceful, BTDT moms there . I read regularly on that board and have gotten lots of great ideas. Parenting 2E kids is tough.

Mom to a teenager and a middle schooler.

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#7 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamasaurus View Post
I posted in the gifted forum because I'm wondering if parents of other gifted children find this happening to them - where their child is so bright, that they feel their family just doesn't "get" anything and is dumb by comparison?

Maybe it is just us.
I think it's important to tease out what's primary and secondary with this for her. Does she think others are stupid because she's 7 (and many NT 7 year old girls are very snotty IME), because she's impatient by temperament, because she's actually experiencing anxiety and she expresses it as nasty impatience?

Or is it part of her ASD? Is it the whole "just stating the facts" combined with limited perspective taking?

If it's anxiety, treat the anxiety. If it's perspective taking, work on that and maybe a social skills class.

DS is HUGELY complicated and IME I've had to tease out what the primary issue driving problematic behaviour is and then address that rather than a more generalized approach.

Mom to a teenager and a middle schooler.

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#8 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 03:57 PM
 
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FWIW, I was terribly snotty at school in early elementary school - mostly at school rather than at home. For me, I was trying to use humour to deal with my frustrations with my peer group. It took me a long time to learn what was funny rather than cruel and who would appreciate it rather than be offended by it. But, I'm pretty civilized now.

Kate
mother of Patrick (7/31/03), and Michael, William, and Jocelyn (4/27/07)
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#9 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 05:26 PM
 
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Hang in there!

I've got one of those. M graduated from high school at 15 and started college at 16. M is 18 now and in his second year of college. He would/does say things that can be very hurtful. When I would/do point it out to him he just shrugs his shoulders and cannot see why that was hurtful, "after all it is the truth."

It took him going to college to "get it." How he explained it to me was "people are stupid mom but if I say that then it causes problems for me and school so I just don't say anything." He still thinks people are stupid but has learned to curb his comments.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it took M going to college, and not having me there to head off the problems from his comments for him to "get it." It also took him being around other people, and having teachers who did know more than him for him to realize that he is not the ONLY smart person around.

M does not have anything other than being gifted.

The other two gifted (by gifted I mean doing grades above where they are work) are also pretty snotty and they are girls ages 16 and 13. They say things that are hurtful but not to the extreme that M does. M was very socially immature compared to the girls, so that might play into the comments too.

As they get older they learn that their words have consequences. For example if they say mean things that hurt their friends or siblings then those kids will not play with them or want to be around them.

Amy
Mom to seven children/step-children ages 18 - 11 :
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#10 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 06:07 PM
 
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You are not alone!

I think in my DD case she is extremely sensitive, so she acts all rough and snotty as a defensive mechanism, and, sadly, to fit in.

I know this is probably not the source of your DD issues - but the results are the same.

I have had a few conversations that have helped (and we have them repeatedly)

1. you do not have to say everything that pops into your head (she mostly gets this one) Are you helping or hurting?

2. how large is this in the scheme of things? We use a scale - is this incident a 2 or an 8?

I do try to keep the the back issues in mind - with DD it is often fueled by anxiety, perfectionism and a dash of competetativeness. I also look at the usual - is she well fed, has she slept enough? Sleep is key to her behaviour!
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#11 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 09:12 PM
 
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We have some of this with my DD as well. She has an incredibly acute memory, and is also very exact. It seems to be almost painfully distressing for her to hear inaccuracies, even from her 2yo brother. She would never say anything like "You're stupid" or "That was dumb," but her tone and attitude are often hard to be around. We use the "rewind" technique, but I wish I had more tools to help her understand that it is not necessary to constantly correct or for everything everyone says to be 100% accurate at all times. She has recently started using complain-y exaggeration ("It's going to take 500 million years to clean it all up!!") herself, and while I don't love that behaviorally, it does at least show me that she is starting to be able to tolerate some inaccuracy in speech!

grateful mother to DD, 1/04, and DS, 2/08

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#12 of 18 Old 05-31-2010, 09:35 PM
 
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I don't have gifted or SN children, so my comments will probably not be useful, but my children have called me stupid and gotten arrogant about things if they know something I don't. One of the problems is that my memory is not what it once was, and that frustrates them to no end, and they think I am stupid. I have conversations with them about it, but sometimes I am not always nice.

My older daughter, especially, didn't particularly understand that she shouldn't say the things she was thinking, and when I'd call her out for rudeness, she'd be upset because she didn't feel like what she was saying was rude, she thought it was truth and she didn't understand how it was rude. So I felt like I had to explain the social nuances to her and get her to understand how her words could be perceived by others and what they might do in return. But if she couldn't get it, for me it was stating a boundary--you are not allowed to refer to anyone as stupid--and reinforcing the boundary over and over again. You are smart, so you can remember that you are not permitted to call people stupid as this is hurtful and can lead to negative consequences. Or the same sort of thing with sarcastic statements. I think this is a prime age for experimenting with scathing sarcasm, if my 6 year old is any measure.

My older daughter gets straight As in school and I find she doesn't always tolerate other classmates as well when she thinks they are stupid. It's not that she thinks they are lacking in something, it's that she thinks they don't want to even try to do things properly which kind of angers her; sometimes these tendencies show up in certain patterns leading to prejudicial statements. So I've had long conversations with her about what factors can affect how children perform in school. I want her to feel free to actually share with me and not feel like I am going to cut her opinion's down, but she has a lack of experience and knowledge of everything that goes into this, so I want to broaden her thought on the topic if I can.
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#13 of 18 Old 06-01-2010, 12:44 AM
 
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Just a little tidbit that might help. Sometimes when I read boards I play a little game with myself. I read the subject line and based on it I guess the subject and or the age of the child. I saw this subject line and I thought seven years old.

It may just be me, but I'm having a hard time really getting a clear idea. Is she calling names like saying "you are stupid". Is she eye rolling "paleeze" sort of thing? Or, is she lecturing you in a condescending tone?

I ask in part because of the mention of Asperger's. Most kids with AS type stuff aren't particularly good at sarcasm at that age. Many however, may use a tone that says "I think you are so stupid" without meaning it as sarcastic. They may just genuinely be shocked that you don't know what was in their head or that you are totally uninformed about something that is obvious to them. If that's the case yes it is still a problem that needs to be dealt with because nobody likes rude behavior. I'm wondering if any of that sounds at all like what might be going on. If so, it may be that reframing it in your head as a problem of her missing information instead of a problem of her trying to hurt feelings, might be helpful as a way to deal with it (and get less frustrated).
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#14 of 18 Old 06-01-2010, 01:53 AM
 
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It could stem from impatience.

I am one of the most patient people in all areas except one. I cannot stand it sometimes when people are not as smart as me.

My wonderful DH gets the brunt of it these days. I get so frustrated with him when he doesn't see what I see or can't see x amount of steps ahead like I do. When I am in the moment, I am just so offended that he is not paying attention or thinking hard enough or whatever that it boils my blood. I really feel hurt by it, and I lash out in anger.

There is no excuse for it. When it passes I am ashamed, and it is hard for me to understand why I got so upset to the point that it felt good to lash out.

I suppose the first step is to be able to recognize that it is happening and then next would be to figure out a coping strategy other than calling my DH an 'idiot'.

Still working on coping strategies.

Now, my DH and I have talked about this, so he just takes these comments with a grain of salt and lets me know that I am being mean.

I am so sorry I remember my mom always telling me I was mean. :sad
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#15 of 18 Old 06-01-2010, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It may just be me, but I'm having a hard time really getting a clear idea. Is she calling names like saying "you are stupid". Is she eye rolling "paleeze" sort of thing? Or, is she lecturing you in a condescending tone?

I ask in part because of the mention of Asperger's. Most kids with AS type stuff aren't particularly good at sarcasm at that age. Many however, may use a tone that says "I think you are so stupid" without meaning it as sarcastic. They may just genuinely be shocked that you don't know what was in their head or that you are totally uninformed about something that is obvious to them. If that's the case yes it is still a problem that needs to be dealt with because nobody likes rude behavior. I'm wondering if any of that sounds at all like what might be going on. If so, it may be that reframing it in your head as a problem of her missing information instead of a problem of her trying to hurt feelings, might be helpful as a way to deal with it (and get less frustrated).
This is really helpful.

She sometimes actually does say "stupid". And she does roll her eyes and do the condescending tone as well.

Sometimes I forget that she has Aspergers. She has actually improved immensely over the past 2 years since we first got her diagnosis, in large part to an amazing SPED team we had at her school. She was put in 1st grade when she was 5 because she was bright and everyone agreed to have her skip Kindy. Then she had a skills trainer/parapro working with her one-to-one to help her learn how to behave in the classroom (she was VERY bouncy). The behavioral specialist gave her "wiggle breaks" 4 times a day, used positive reinforcement and gentle techniques, but still very clear expectations, and our DD blossomed at school.

They also gave us in-home parent education, which was great, but we still struggle at home. The school just doesn't "get it", about DD's rude comments at home. She doesn't act that way at school (maybe just a teeny bit), but she is very comfortable to act that way around her family.

So, anyway - yes, sometimes I forget about the Aspergers part. There are some people on our IEP team and other friends/relatives who are beginning to wonder if her Aspergers diagnosis is even relevant anymore, because on the surface she looks very typical.

However, we still have these struggles at home. And it doesn't help that she is smart as a whip (she's reading at a high school level now). She just can be so mean to us. But I guess I need to take in consideration that the Aspergers could be contributing to that part of things.

Or maybe it is just personality...???

It is really confusing to have all of these labels on her and not know exactly what part of it all is causing this nastiness. It is probably a combination of everything.
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#16 of 18 Old 06-01-2010, 12:40 PM
 
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I bet it is an Aspie thing. My BFF's daughter is 10 and an Aspi. She is always giving us the "your so stupid" eye roll.
There is also a client at work (I work with autistic children) that I could bet has Aspergers. We were playing game where he built something out of legos and everyone guesses what it is. He built one of the ancient Chinese homes. We guessed "ancient Chinese home" but he kept saying "well what are they called?" Time ran out and neither adult knew what they were called. He kept going on and on and on about how stupid we were because we didn't know they were called pagoda. (yes I had to google that,lol)
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#17 of 18 Old 06-02-2010, 11:51 AM
 
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You are definitely not alone!
My eight year old gifted aspie is very similar... along with the eye roll. He has an intolerance for silliness and is very very critical of people around him. Either people think he is an incredible kid, or they go away thinking that he is a complete self absorbed jerk. I joke that a half hour outing takes an hour of damage control afterwards.( but it is actually pretty close to the truth) He thinks that everyone is being condescending and treating him like a baby. He will dwell on the fact that someone in thier 50s doesnt know what a " quiver" or " fletching" is, or know evry detail about ancient mythology. I am just constantly trying to help him understand where people are at and trying to help him build tolerance and patience for people around him. He can appear to be VERY rude and blunt even though he is a very sweet and gentle person. He definitely can be a difficult personallity to live with.( and I love him deeply! lol) I think a lot of kids this age just think that they know everything. It is just compounded in an interesting way with Aspies I have met.

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#18 of 18 Old 06-03-2010, 12:36 PM
 
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Just thought I pop in and add myself to the ranks that tell you "Nope, not alone" - and I do think it is related to her intelligence too. My dd, 10, is gifted, has been diagnosed with ADHD, and is also suspected by the school of being an aspie. She is very, very impatient with learning - both for herself and for others. And she is very annoyed and condescending when people say things that aren't perfectly correct. I have to say that dh and I are not helpful in that respect as we don't exactly model the best behavior at times. She is very impatient with me because I think so much slower than she does most of the time. I don't have much advice - I just tend to deal with it on an as-needed basis with varying tactics. I do try to use "rewind" at those times it seems appropriate.

What is interesting to me is that her psychiatrist has suggested that dd shows signs of anxiety rather than Asperger's and we are pursuing formal counseling for that now. Anxiety can show up in different ways in kids apparently - including rudeness/snottiness and other inappropriate behavior. And now I am seeing that many gifted kids on this forum have anxiety issues. Obviously that may or may not be a factor for you, but I honestly never, ever would have even considered that as a possible contributing factor for my daughter so perhaps it may be.

((HUGS))

-Sky
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