Poll? Where does your academically gifted child fall in relation to physical milestones? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 58 Old 06-27-2011, 10:25 AM
 
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There was an old study by Tremain where he concluded that intellectually gifted children were generally strong physically as well but that's the only time I've ever really heard that correlation.

 

 



 



That research is questionable at best.  The children were identified by teachers for testing.  The sample was also almost entirely white and middle class, and the study was conducted by a eugenecist.  If teachers were identifying the gifted kids in California in the '30s, odds are they leaned  in certain directions. 

 


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#32 of 58 Old 06-27-2011, 11:31 AM
 
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That research is questionable at best.  The children were identified by teachers for testing.  The sample was also almost entirely white and middle class, and the study was conducted by a eugenecist.  If teachers were identifying the gifted kids in California in the '30s, odds are they leaned  in certain directions. 

 



I totally agree. It's just the only time I've really seen a correlation in print.

 


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#33 of 58 Old 06-27-2011, 01:48 PM
 
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well depends on what the definition of gifted one is using here too.

 

i think we automatically equate gifted with academically gifted. not social or physical or even all round gifted.


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#34 of 58 Old 06-27-2011, 06:06 PM
 
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well depends on what the definition of gifted one is using here too.

 

i think we automatically equate gifted with academically gifted. not social or physical or even all round gifted.



I don't think in terms of academic giftedness.  I don't view giftedness as academic performance; that is more of an achievement thing to me and may or may not be as a result of high ability.  I tend to use the terms intellectually gifted which is probably semantics at best ;) !  What would all around gifted be or is that just another way of saying intellectually gifted or high composite ability vs. high ability is a specific domain (like good verbal skills but no other area in which one stands out)?

 

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#35 of 58 Old 06-27-2011, 06:34 PM
 
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 What would all around gifted be or is that just another way of saying intellectually gifted or high composite ability vs. high ability is a specific domain (like good verbal skills but no other area in which one stands out)?

not sure i understand what high composite ability is. an all rounder that i am trying to describe?

 

well i was actually thinking of an adult - x when i said that. he was intellectually ahead, won a sports scholarship to college (which he refused), and is a singer, songwriter, as well as a multiple musical instrument player. he picked up tennis at 27 and by 28 was winning statewide championship. self taught himself painting at 35 without ever taking a class and got well known in the scene due to his work (which everyone admired but few refused to buy due to the dark nature).  

 

i think my definition was more like stands out in almost all areas as opposed to one. 

 

x suits the picture perfect defintion of 'all that he touches turns into gold'. whatever he shows interest in he masters. which could be science or english, a sports or carpentry. 

 

 

 


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#36 of 58 Old 06-27-2011, 09:44 PM
 
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well depends on what the definition of gifted one is using here too.

 

i think we automatically equate gifted with academically gifted. not social or physical or even all round gifted.


The thread title says academically gifted.

 

The type of individual you go on to describe is pretty rare.  It's rare to be globally gifted (in terms of intellectual potential on IQ tests),  and it's also rare to be multiply talented, with or without gifted IQ.
 

 


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#37 of 58 Old 06-28-2011, 10:15 AM
 
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Whether or not there is a correlation in the general population, I believe that my particular DD's early gross and fine motor skill development is related to the way her brain processes things, and the way her brain processes information is also connected to her being academically gifted. She is a very fast learner.  When she was 5 months old, based on someone's safety advice related to co-sleeping, I showed my daughter how to get off of our bed by scooting her body to edge and lowering her legs down.  I did that 2 mornings in a row, and then on the 3rd day, she scooted herself out of our bed and crawled into the kitchen on her own, and she's been on the go ever since.  I feel like I see the same thing happening with academic subjects.  She only needs to review a spelling list once to know and retain the words.  She seems to grasp math concepts right away as well. 

 

I also believe that the way my DD developed is connected to her experience with her environment.  She has sensory issues, and gets overwhelmed easily by touch, texture, and sound.  I think her ability to move around early gave her more control.  She cut out the middleman, not having to ask for toys and such, since she could just go get what she wanted, and easily get away from things that bothered her. Control has always seemed important to her.  I noticed on the playground that she seemed to prefer playing on things that she controlled, strongly prefering a slide or climbing structure to being pushed on a swing. 

 

Anyway, those are just my observations of my one child. 

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#38 of 58 Old 06-28-2011, 02:27 PM
 
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I could see some of my dd12's fine motor skills having a correlation with intelligence.  For instance, the shape sorter required not only good small motor skills to fit complex shapes into the holes, but also the mental capacity to turn a six sided sorter around to find the right holes and see that the three different types of stars differed from one another.

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#39 of 58 Old 06-28-2011, 02:51 PM
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My highly gifted child has always been way ahead in physical milestones.

My oldest is pretty average academically and hit milestones at about the normal time. However as he's gotten older, he has become a fairly talented athlete. 

My youngest is just about 1 and has hit physical milestones early, but not as early (walked at 10 mos. as opposed to 8.5, etc) and is not nearly as verbal as her gifted brother at her age. Time will tell if she's gifted-- she seems pretty normal to me now though. 

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#40 of 58 Old 06-28-2011, 03:12 PM
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All 3 as babies were ahead on physical gross motor milestones.  DD1 by the time she reached kindergarten had some definite fine motor delays.  The other two have been a bit ahead on fine motor.  DD3 has been ahead of her age competent in the water since she was about 2.  She would be further along, and probably completely independent in the water by now (she's 5.5 years) if I had paid for private swim lessons.  The group lessons available here would place her in with kids that are 2nd or 3rd grade.  It has caused some bullying issues, so we have backed off the lessons until she is a little older.  I am finding that she is making about the same amount of improvement with playing at the pool this summer with me as she would in classes.  DD2 (7.5) is a talented swimmer.  She is definitely very strong and very physically competent (although, it seems clear to me that she is not gifted).  She is also the only one that has been identified as gifted.  I believe that DD3 will be identified by the schools when she starts.  DD1 has ADD and some other learning disabilities that I imagine will prevent her from being identified, but believe her to be gifted none-the-less.  Just less tangibly so.  All 3 DDs are dancers.  DD3 seems to be the most naturally coordinated in that way.  DD1, who, while she loves dance and is really beautiful to see move if she is just dancing on her own, is less capable of following a set, choreographed routine is a pretty good runner.  She enjoys running (I think for the same reasons Linda On The Move's daughter loves swimming).  It is easy, repetitive, non-competitive and she is able to just get in her own head and tune the world out for a while. 

 

 


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#41 of 58 Old 06-30-2011, 02:29 AM
 
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DD has definitely always been behind on physical skills and not by any chart but by what's obvious to everyone around us and to me when I see other people's children. I've never seen a child so late, but she always manages to accomplish everything JUST in time before the doctor decides he's going to be worried about it. I remember there was a big hubbub when she couldn't walk by the time she was 18 months old. Nothing abnormal about her at all, she just isn't good at the physical stuff.


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#42 of 58 Old 07-03-2011, 02:36 AM
 
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DC (& myself) have all been ahead of average on fine & gross motor skills.  Eg., smiling by 2-3 weeks old (DS2), Walking 9-11 months, pedalling a trike 2-2.5yo, climbing trees 2.5yo, Good pencil hold (both hands for ambidextrous DS2 at 3.5yo), pedalling a bike before 4yo (we don't have balance bikes, either).

They were all relatively if not very late talkers.  Only DS2 actually needed SALT, though (I waited as late as possible to ask about it, too).

At school they have all become relatively high achievers (top 1-10%), although sometimes not until age 8 or so.

 

DH has a cousin whose kids are similar academic achievers & were very late on gross milestones (eg., youngest didn't walk until 22 months)... I think it's a mistake to presume that early physical milestones mean anything re future braininess. Certainly not a bragging point... more of a nuisance that they can easily get into things when they have the least sense of danger.


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#43 of 58 Old 07-16-2011, 06:24 PM
 
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Mine would both most definitely fall into category 1, having always drawn and continuing to draw attention from strangers., especially other parents.

 

I don't know anything about how common it is to be both far ahead academically and physically, but I don't feel it's as odd as some make it out to be. I often hear people make the assumption that if someone is gifted in one area they must be behind in most other areas. I think there are all types.

 

We happen to know many people that are fairly globally gifted. Some of that has to do with certain strands of our family and some to do with where education has taken us.

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#44 of 58 Old 07-16-2011, 09:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by expecting-joy View Post

 

I don't know anything about how common it is to be both far ahead academically and physically, but I don't feel it's as odd as some make it out to be. 


I think there was a little bit of vagueness in the question and its categories too, which might be leading to the difference in interpretation. Many of the people who have described their kids being ahead (category 1) have mentioned things like walking at 10 months, riding a two-wheeler at three or four, and so on. My kids were doing those things at those ages, but those are within a couple of standard deviations of the norm so I wouldn't have considered them as anything but "within the range of normal" and would have put them in category 2. Fifty percent of kids are above average, after all! I guess my kids were physically well ahead of the mean, but still within the range I would call normal (i.e. 2 SDs from the mean). They were nowhere near as spurious physically as they are intellectually. Other kids in our town have learned to ride bicycles at 3. None of the other kids in our town have been doing long division at 7 or reading Harry Potter at 4.

 

As I said somewhere way up above, physical skills are affected by focus, alertness and determination, all of which are components of intellectual giftedness. So it's not surprising to see some association between intellectual giftedness and the early development of physical skills.

 

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#45 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 11:10 AM
 
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I think there was a little bit of vagueness in the question and its categories too, which might be leading to the difference in interpretation.

 

....As I said somewhere way up above, physical skills are affected by focus, alertness and determination, all of which are components of intellectual giftedness. So it's not surprising to see some association between intellectual giftedness and the early development of physical skills.


agreed. My child who is athletic is a decent athlete on a school team or a city wide competition. She isn't headed to the Olympics. thumb.gif

 

Another component is parenting. Most gifted kids have at least one gifted parent (many have 2), so they are more likely to grow up middle or upper middle class. My DH is gifted, and is executive at an aerospace firm. So, besides the gene part of what our kids got, they also have access to things classes, teams and coaching

 

I think it's a double whammy (but in a good way) -- the kid has more focus and determination, and better access to opportunities to develop.

 

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#46 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 12:29 PM
 
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I don't think it's odd :).

 

I do think that to be multiply exceptional is more unusual than being singly exceptional.

 

And I don't think that there's any evidence that being physically ahead in the toddler years is indicative of intellectual giftedness.  Some are, some aren't.  shrug.gif

 

I can see the drive piece as a variable for some kids.


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#47 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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I imagine that both personality (including drive) and genetics play a role in physical advancement.  Gifted kids may be more driven but they also may be more perfectionistic even from a very early age.  One could play into walking early and the other walking late, for instance.  I, too, don't think that I've seen any studies that indicate that intellectually gifted kids are statistically more likely to hit physical milestones early or late. 

 

I also don't see globally gifted as encompassing things like sports/gross motor skills I guess.  Maybe that's the way others view it and maybe I haven't thought of it that way b/c we aren't raising athletes in our house wink1.gif .  I tend to view globally gifted as encompassing all intellectual pursuits (e.g. -- a child who is significantly advanced in math and reading and science and art, etc.).  Maybe I need to broaden my perspective to include sports.  That will have to rule my kids out, though!

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#48 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 01:21 PM
 
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I do think that to be multiply exceptional is more unusual than being singly exceptional.

 

Not to pick on your post, but this got me thinking and I'm curious about others' thoughts if you don't mind a slight divergence.  I've kind of always assumed that gifted in the sense of high IQ (top 2% or so) usually entails the capacity to be well above average in everything academic barring twice exceptionality. 

 

For instance, my oldest is HG and not really 2e although she does have some sensory issues and a SPD dx from when she was younger.  Her 3rd grade teacher made the comment to me that "[dd]'s weaknesses are other peoples' strengths."  Math is her weakness.  She doesn't pick it up by osmosis and doesn't really love it.  She did, however, complete an 8th grade accelerated algebra course with an A all year at age 12.  She's starting high school in the fall shortly before she turns 13 and, even in her weak area, she's doing well.  In her strong areas, she's consistently in the 99th percentile on tests and gets As pretty much for showing up.  That isn't the case for math, but she is still "exceptional" to the extent that most kids her age wouldn't do as well as she has in it with the same placement.

 

My youngest, on the other hand, is HG and 2e.  She, too, is still well above average even in her weak areas.  She does have more erratic achievement levels but I don't think that she is actually average in anything.  I seemed to be much the same as my girls.  Even in my weak areas, I was in the AP classes and did well.  I recall that much of my high school was the same.  The kids who were in AP history were also in AP English and AP math and AP science. 

 

Is that at all where you were going or were you referring to multiple exceptionalities as people who are both great at all academic subjects and things that had nothing to do with intelligence/IQ or academics (like pro sports player with an IQ of 140)?  What do you all think?  Wouldn't high intelligence correlate with capacity to perform at a somewhat exceptional level in all things intellectual assuming the will was there and no LD?

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#49 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 01:41 PM
 
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I was thinking about any area where someone's beyond something like two SDs above the mean.   I think some people have one area of exceptionality (ie PRI on an IQ test), or others that have multiple areas of exceptionality.  James Bond would be multiply exceptional, for example, although asynchronous probably re his ability to form long-term attachments. :)

 

DS is 2E - all areas of IQ are well above typical, but then he has SPD and written output disorder.  He's multiply exceptional, and it makes his life multiply complicated. I think his particular combination is not often seen in the general population (although is seen in these parts {MDC} somewhat frequently). DD is a gifted pianist in addition to being gifted intellectually - I honestly don't know if the two are liinked, as she plays by ear a lot in addition to whipping through theory and being technically very competent.  Then there are the kids who are socially capable, physically precocious and very intellectually gifted - I think that particular combination is more rare than others.

 

The original post is about physical precocity in young children who are "academically" gifted.  I just think it's not particularly related - it can certainly co-occur, but I don't think it's predictive.


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#50 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 01:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by joensally View Post

I was thinking about any area where someone's beyond something like two SDs above the mean.  

 

I guess that my kids would still both qualify in areas related to academics with that qualifier.  For instance, dd12 isn't in the top 2% of her grade peers in math, but she's 1-2 years younger than all of the other kids and she's still in the top 1% is all other areas even when compared to kids a few years older than herself.  When compared to age peers, she's definitely in the 2 SD+ area in all areas of academics including math.

 

Dd10 is in reality as well and tests as much on individual achievement tests but her LDs stand in the way of consistent performance of that sort on group tests.

 

I see what you are saying about being that high in one area on IQ and maybe, again, I need to broaden my perspective.  I am talking about kids who are at the 2 SD+ point for composite IQ scores (FSIQ or GAI) not just one subtest.  Mine, too, have some significant weaknesses in terms of processing speed and/or memory, but they still hit that point and that's where I'm thinking you should have the potential to excel in all academic subjects if your overall or composite ability is that far out of the norm.

 

I do agree with you that physical precociousness in early childhood probably doesn't have anything to do with intellectual or academic giftedness.  I do get the point of the earlier poster, though, that it is often assumed that highly intelligent kids are going to have all kinds of other weaknesses (such as physical) and that this probably isn't the case either.  They are likely totally independent things.

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#51 of 58 Old 07-17-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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This topic brings up so many things.

 

I think if a kid has a very high score on only the VQI or the PRI, they probably need accomodations and will potentially excell in their area of strength.  And really, given that most gifted programs use group administered tests and/or achievement tests and/or IQ-proxy tests, many kids identified as gifted in schools may only have a VQI or PRI strength.

 

On the outer fringe of exceptional ability, in any domain, you're going to have fewer numbers of people.  I don't know how frequently it occurs that people are 99th percentile in intellectual, physical, social, business acumen etc etc etc.  I have encountered some people who are very well-rounded, but they're rare IMO.  And I'm talking about well-rounded in their exceptionalities (agian,  using this broader definition than intellectual).  I also find the strength must also have deficit definition of gifted people pretty boring, even as I parent a 2E kid.  I don't know why a person needs to be undermined.  I know a child who is PG, is very well-rounded intellectually, a gifted musician, great social skills, physical abilities that he can get by with.  He'll have a full life without any apparent "failings" or 'weaknesses" that some want to find in a gifted person.

 

 

 

 


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#52 of 58 Old 07-18-2011, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I do agree with you that physical precociousness in early childhood probably doesn't have anything to do with intellectual or academic giftedness.  I do get the point of the earlier poster, though, that it is often assumed that highly intelligent kids are going to have all kinds of other weaknesses (such as physical) and that this probably isn't the case either.  They are likely totally independent things.


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Original Poster here - this                is what I was originally wondering about.  My 2 year old astounds me daily with his mental abilities, but he has trouble going up stairs, climbing, and cannot jump to save his life.  Although he has the best focus, determination, and attention span I've ever seen in a 2 year old, he simply does not care to apply those things to physical skills.  He is obsessed with all things academic and greatly prefers them to physical activity.  I guess it's more of a personality issue then, combined with some physical attributes such as flat feet that are hindering his athletic skills. 

 


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#53 of 58 Old 07-18-2011, 09:40 AM
 
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combined with some physical attributes such as flat feet that are hindering his athletic skills. 

 


Just a OT comment. Flat feet are normal in babies and toddlers -- part of the general laxity of joints and muscles that we're all born with. Development of the medial arches, as with all aspects of children's development, has considerable variability. Some kids will have arches developing quite strongly by age 2, other kids will take longer -- and the timing is not a cause or predictor of athleticism. Don't get caught in the trap of treating this as a orthopedic issue. Keep him bare-footed as much as possible, avoid firm "supportive" shoes, choosing mocassin-like footwear over tiny Reebok-like shoes, keep him active... and the muscles and ligaments will likely firm up as he continues to develop physically. 

 

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#54 of 58 Old 07-18-2011, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just a OT comment. Flat feet are normal in babies and toddlers -- part of the general laxity of joints and muscles that we're all born with. Development of the medial arches, as with all aspects of children's development, has considerable variability. Some kids will have arches developing quite strongly by age 2, other kids will take longer -- and the timing is not a cause or predictor of athleticism. Don't get caught in the trap of treating this as a orthopedic issue. Keep him bare-footed as much as possible, avoid firm "supportive" shoes, choosing mocassin-like footwear over tiny Reebok-like shoes, keep him active... and the muscles and ligaments will likely firm up as he continues to develop physically. 

 

Miranda

 



Uh-oh!  Thanks for the comment.  We are currently waiting on orthotics and he is in OT for delays.  PMing you for additional info. . . hope you don't mind.

 


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#55 of 58 Old 07-18-2011, 09:59 AM
 
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Original Poster here - this                is what I was originally wondering about.  My 2 year old astounds me daily with his mental abilities, but he has trouble going up stairs, climbing, and cannot jump to save his life.  Although he has the best focus, determination, and attention span I've ever seen in a 2 year old, he simply does not care to apply those things to physical skills.  He is obsessed with all things academic and greatly prefers them to physical activity.  I guess it's more of a personality issue then, combined with some physical attributes such as flat feet that are hindering his athletic skills. 

 



:)  I wouldn't frame it as a personality issue, as I think that can be a recipe for trouble.  Maybe he's just not physically adept, and no matter how much he focusses on a skill he may not master it or excel at it.  It's good that he's in OT as he may have some proprioceptive or vestibular issues they can remediate to help him with stairs, climbing and jumping.

 

This is where stereotypes can be harmful versus illustrative.  I think it's unfair when people (general) expect that a person who is gifted be gifted in all things, or that a person who is gifted must be undermined by undue attention to an area of challenge.  Asynchrony is the general rule in humans, and is often more extreme in gifted children.

 


Mom to a teenager and a middle schooler.

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#56 of 58 Old 07-18-2011, 03:11 PM
 
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DD is behind on gross motor skills (she has been in physical therapy since she was 2 and is STILL behind at 5.5), but on track or ahead in fine motor skills.

 

DS is only 21 months so it's hard telling about his academic giftedness, but he's on track or ahead for both gross and fine motor. 


Erin, mom to DD (1/06) and DS (10/09)
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#57 of 58 Old 07-25-2011, 04:56 PM
 
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I would say my son is a 2. I believe he is pretty on par with physical milestones. We haven't taught him how to skip yet (I was just thinking about this today) and he's not that great at throwing or catching balls. He's pretty confident, though, and at times that can help him learn new things quickly, including physical games.

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#58 of 58 Old 08-18-2011, 09:14 PM
 
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