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-   -   Poll? Where does your academically gifted child fall in relation to physical milestones? (http://www.mothering.com/forum/370-parenting-gifted-child/1318701-poll-where-does-your-academically-gifted-child-fall-relation-physical-milestones.html)

pranava 06-22-2011 06:53 AM

I wanted this to be a poll, but can't find that option anymore headscratch.gif

 

Just wondering, is your academically gifted child. . .

 

1)  ahead on physical skills/milestones as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

2) meeting physical skills/milestones more or less on time as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

3) behind on physical skills/milestones as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

 

I know, I know - those milestone charts are fraught with controversy.  Let's say as compared to these charts

 

http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/index.html 

 

http://www.cfw.tufts.edu/external.asp?url=http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002348.htm&prev=http://www.cfw.tufts.edu/?/category/development/4/topic/developmental-milestones/172/= 

 

 

 

My answer would be 3 - some on time, but mostly behind on physical skills


crunchy_mommy 06-22-2011 07:27 AM

I would say DS is mostly on time or ahead... there are some areas he's a bit behind in due to sensory issues & spending SO much time in my arms, you know? Which I guess is similar to his 'academic' milestones, overall he is ahead but he has a few lags that are mostly tied to his other issues. Sometimes I wonder how he learns anything at all, physical or otherwise...

whatsnextmom 06-22-2011 07:34 AM

It's been a long time lol. I know DD would have been a 1 in both gross and fine motor skills. DS was sort of half 1 and half 2 in gross and certainly a 3 in fine.


KCMichigan 06-22-2011 07:40 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by pranava View Post

I wanted this to be a poll, but can't find that option anymore headscratch.gif

 

Just wondering, is your academically gifted child. . .

 

1)  ahead on physical skills/milestones as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

2) meeting physical skills/milestones more or less on time as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

3) behind on physical skills/milestones as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

 

I know, I know - those milestone charts are fraught with controversy.  Let's say as compared to these charts

 

http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/index.html 

 

http://www.cfw.tufts.edu/external.asp?url=http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002348.htm&prev=http://www.cfw.tufts.edu/?/category/development/4/topic/developmental-milestones/172/= 

 

 

 

My answer would be 3 - some on time, but mostly behind on physical skills



Both my DDs would be 3s for gross motor milestone and 1 for fine motor skills.

 

They still both are mildly delayed for gross motor, one more than the other (has very mild CP). They simply have little to no interest in lots of physical skills are were never go.go.go. girls. They sat and played or talked and now read away the days. Neither likes riding bikes, scooters, etc. even now at age 5. 

 

Side note: they were 2+ months premature and I dont doubt that has something to do with it. They did not walk until 15 & 18 months respectively.

 

Fine motor has always been ahead-- they both drew, wrote names, laced, cut, etc ahead of age expectations.


emmaegbert 06-22-2011 08:00 AM

both my kids have been ahead on most gross motor skills (though both walked right around 1st birthday), and pretty much all fine motor skills I can think of. DS more noticeably advanced, and also large for age. But both could do things like sit independently and play with a ball at 4m, and two-footed jumping shortly after turning 1. DS rode a two-wheel scooter at 2yo, 2-wheel bike at 3yo, could cut with scissors before he was 2, drew representational drawings before he was 2, etc. DD could crawl and pull up before 5mo, used a tripod grip to draw w/ crayons (spontaneously) at 15m, stuff like that. I don't spend a lot of time looking at those charts b/c they've never had any delays, ykwim? These are just the things that stuck out at me at the time b/c even I knew it was unusual.

 

DS was IDed as gifted as part of school application processes and I was sort or surprised at just how high he actually scored- he doesn't present like a super-academic kid. Not an early reader or anything. DD is too young for testing (or school) but she's seeming mighty smart to us lately :)


moominmamma 06-22-2011 08:44 AM

Mine were pretty average, maybe slightly earlier than average (all were walking by 10-12 months, for example). Fine motor (not counting graphomotor, which seems to follow a different trajectory here) ended up being well ahead by age 5-7, thanks to music lessons and temperamentally high levels of focus and attention to detail, but as babies and toddlers they were bang on average.

 

Miranda


boston_slackermom 06-22-2011 09:42 AM

Definitely a 1, with strangers commenting on it regularly when she was little.  She walked on her own at 9 months, and at 10 months she was climbing the ladder and going down the slide (again and again) on her own at the local playground.  At 6, almost 7, she is less obvious, but still picks up new dance steps and other physical challenges pretty quickly.  She is very determined to do what she wants to do.  I think Miranda captured it well with "temperamentally high levels of focus and attention to detail."

 

 


pigpokey 06-22-2011 10:53 AM

1

For example my son walked just short of 11 months, and then didn't use it for a few weeks.  But he jumped on 2 feet at about 13 months.  He rode a trike by about 16 months.  Dived headfirst by about 19 months.  Passed the 25 yard non stop swim test to use the diving boards as a young 2.  He was independent on a two wheeler at about 2.5 -- would have been earlier if he could have reached the ground, but he had to learn to start it in a hard lean to one side so he could get on.  Learned to skip at 2 because DD as a young 4 learned it in dance class.

 

I believe the key to most of this physical skills stuff is the vestibular system and isn't related to overall intellectual function except that sometimes everything just falls into place including the vestibular. 

 

 


Linda on the move 06-22-2011 11:49 AM

One of my gifted DDs would number 1 for both fine and gross motor skills. She's athletic as well as artistic. She's also beautiful and can sing and act.

 

My other DD would be number 3 for both fine and gross motor skills. She has special needs in addition to being gifted. She met all gross motor milestones borderline or late, and is a bit awkward in her body. The thing she can do is SWIM. Like a machine, with amazing endurance. She's also doing gentle yoga now.

 

Her fine motor skills are far off that at 13 we quit saying "delayed" and switched efforts to her learning to how to through life and school with what she's got rather than catching up.

 

 


pranava 06-22-2011 12:15 PM

lurk.gif   Wow!  So many physically talented children!  I actually expected this to be more skewed toward late walking and the like.   I don't know if my DS's slow gross motor skills are a lack of interest like KCMichigan mentioned or possibly a sign of being on the ASD spectrum (there's been some speculation about that from a few daycare providers). 


whatsnextmom 06-22-2011 12:42 PM


I don't know that I'd call them "physically talented" in those early years. There are all sorts of reasons kids develop how they develop physically and that early trajectory isn't neccessarily constant. Often, through elementary school age, what people recognize as "atheletically gifted" have more to do with unusual mental drive and focus. Once the majority of kids are there mentally, those who are truely exceptional physically leap forward.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranava View Post

lurk.gif   Wow!  So many physically talented children!  I actually expected this to be more skewed toward late walking and the like.   I don't know if my DS's slow gross motor skills are a lack of interest like KCMichigan mentioned or possibly a sign of being on the ASD spectrum (there's been some speculation about that from a few daycare providers). 



 


KCMichigan 06-22-2011 02:34 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsnextmom View Post


 Often, through elementary school age, what people recognize as "atheletically gifted" have more to do with unusual mental drive and focus. Once the majority of kids are there mentally, those who are truely exceptional physically leap forward.

 

 

 



 


I agree with some of this...... but not all.

 

One of my DDs is d.r.i.v.e.n. and has always had a long long long attention span and focus (noted by several teachers and other non-family adults). She is mastery driven and does get frustrated at her lack of physical abilities. I will add though--- she was determined to write her name and did at age 2y2m. She was determined to read and taught herself at age 3. But no matter how hard she tries and practices, even after 7 months of gymnastics she still can not do a cartwheel or backward roll. It is not lack of determination (she tries over and over and over), but rather a sheer lack of physical ability/coordination. This is not my DD w/ physical disabilities.

 

 

My other  DD has sensory needs, possible ASD, and mild physical disabilities. Her gross motor skills were delayed enough she had therapies (Ot & PT) as recently as last year. Some of her reluctance to 'practice' physical skills are related to her sensory needs/physical limits and some is just a lack of interest when there is art to be drawn, puppets to play with , and books to read. She still struggles to ride a trike and actively avoids bike riding/scooter,etc.

 

I would not and do not equate physical abilities to cognitive skills. They some times ARE seen together but just as often are seen apart.

 

Advanced skills in one area does not determine advanced skills in the other.

 


loraxc 06-22-2011 02:35 PM

DD has always been borderline behind on gross motor, but not extremely slow. Learned to swim at 6 and ride a two-wheeler w/o training wheels at 7. In our circles this is a bit late. She also was very late to learn to walk up stairs, but walked alone at one. She is on the uncoordinated side, but so am I.

DS was failure to thrive and low muscle tone as a baby and then mysteriously caught up. He now appears on track or slightly ahead. He learned to pedal a trike before 3--DD did not get this till 4. He has a great throwing arm.

Both kids have always had fairly amazing fine motor skills. DD has beautiful handwriting and is great at art. DS has been holding a pencil correctly since before 2 and is writing words and drawing more like a 4yo.

Linda on the move 06-22-2011 03:28 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by KCMichigan View Post

One of my DDs is d.r.i.v.e.n. and has always had a long long long attention span and focus (noted by several teachers and other non-family adults). She is mastery driven

 

...I would not and do not equate physical abilities to cognitive skills. They some times ARE seen together but just as often are seen apart.

 

 

 


 

My DD with motor issues is very like this. Tons of focus (more than is typical) and a very, very hard worker.  Her body is just..... I don't know how to explain it.  Her labels when she was little included "low muscle tone" and "delayed motor planning skills."  I think the reason she turned out to be such an awesome swimmer is because it's the same thing over and over, you don't have to react to anything else (like you do in sports like soccer) and because the water was so wonderful for her sensory issues, she has spent many, many, many hours in it. For a couple of years, she practiced swimming 2 hours a day. Anything a kid practices for 2 hours a day for a couple of years they will get good at. 

 

It's still hard for her to learn new physical activities. Even at 14, it's still hard for her to figure out how to get her body to do something new. It's as if the exact same reasons she sat up late and walked late are still true, they just play out differently.

 

My athletic DD has less focus. A lot less. She's also so used to things coming easily that she has trouble really putting effort in.

 

And I agree there's no correlation between smarts and physical ability. It's all random.


LynnS6 06-22-2011 03:37 PM



Quote:

Originally Posted by pranava View Post

 

1)  ahead on physical skills/milestones as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

 

2) meeting physical skills/milestones more or less on time as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

Dd fits here, with a few skills (particularly fine motor and skills involving balance) ahead.

 

3) behind on physical skills/milestones as defined by most developmental milestone charts.

Ds fits here -- but he also has SPD and some dyspraxia. He's actually more #2 now, but that's with 2 years of OT from age 5-7.


 

 


 


whatsnextmom 06-22-2011 07:58 PM



I wasn't by any means suggesting that all driven kids are also physically or cognitively advanced! I was saying that it's too early to consider an infant or toddler as "physically talented." The early walker or kid who stands out in kinder-gym MIGHT end up atheletically gifted but more often than not, what makes a child in elementary and younger stand out is focus, drive, ability to follow directions and competitiveness. At the younger ages, that can really make a child stand out. However, many times these kids aren't really that unusual in terms of atheletic ability and once their peers catch up in their ability to focus (and they do) those who are truely "physically talented" come forth.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCMichigan View Post




I agree with some of this...... but not all.

 

One of my DDs is d.r.i.v.e.n. and has always had a long long long attention span and focus (noted by several teachers and other non-family adults). She is mastery driven and does get frustrated at her lack of physical abilities. I will add though--- she was determined to write her name and did at age 2y2m. She was determined to read and taught herself at age 3. But no matter how hard she tries and practices, even after 7 months of gymnastics she still can not do a cartwheel or backward roll. It is not lack of determination (she tries over and over and over), but rather a sheer lack of physical ability/coordination. This is not my DD w/ physical disabilities.

 

 

My other  DD has sensory needs, possible ASD, and mild physical disabilities. Her gross motor skills were delayed enough she had therapies (Ot & PT) as recently as last year. Some of her reluctance to 'practice' physical skills are related to her sensory needs/physical limits and some is just a lack of interest when there is art to be drawn, puppets to play with , and books to read. She still struggles to ride a trike and actively avoids bike riding/scooter,etc.

 

I would not and do not equate physical abilities to cognitive skills. They some times ARE seen together but just as often are seen apart.

 

Advanced skills in one area does not determine advanced skills in the other.

 



 


ollyoxenfree 06-23-2011 05:59 AM

 

It's been a long time, but I recall that DS was a very strong baby. He held his head up and could sit up well fairly early. I recall others remarking about it. He was an alert baby. DD was also a strong, active baby. Milestones like crawling and walking were on target. No delays for either of them with gross or fine motor activities. 

 

They are both good athletes now, but not particularly devoted to any sport or activity. DD has an amazing sense of rhythm and movement and grace. If she wanted it more, she could be a wonderful dancer. She's just not driven to dedicate her life to it. 

 

I had worked with "floppy" babies and physically disabled children before I had children. I was fairly aware of handling my dc as infants to promote good muscle tone and activity and encouraging them to explore and develop gross and fine motor function. With a subject pool of 2, I can't say whether it made any real difference, but their physical development was never a concern.   


pranava 06-23-2011 08:15 AM



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsnextmom View Post



The early walker or kid who stands out in kinder-gym MIGHT end up atheletically gifted but more often than not, what makes a child in elementary and younger stand out is focus, drive, ability to follow directions and competitiveness.

 That makes sense.  I stood at 6 months and walked at 8, but I'm FAR from a star athlete, or any kind of good athlete for that matter :) 

 

It's odd, but DS was a strong baby - holding his head up, pushing to a stand, rolling over very very early.  He crawled and cruised on time, but when it comes to walking, climbing, running, throwing he's delayed.  Seems the older he gets the more his physical development slows down. 


SubliminalDarkness 06-23-2011 09:05 AM

2. He's been pretty average right on down the line with physical stuff. And now, at 9 years old, he's athletically pretty average. He's definitely not a gifted athlete. 


kai28 06-23-2011 11:01 AM

DS (2) is a 1. yes, yes, I realize that at 26 months its too early to consider him gifted, but he's way ahead of himself "academically" (vocab, number recognition & counting, letters, learning to read, accurately explaining mechanical & body processes, cooperative play, knows the planets of our solar system in & out of order, can read weather maps and tell us if it'll rain, knows map vs. globe, etc). He's always been ahead of the developmental charts - to the point where I tossed the books out and his Dr. stopped asking about reaching the milestones. he was holding his head up the day after he was born. laughing, smiling and vocalizing several sounds by 5 weeks. all of his teeth were in by 10.5 months (not including the 2 year molars), using a cup and a fork, knife & spoon well around a year. dribbling a soccer ball across the yard, on ice, by 20 months (I didn't think that was odd until the 8 year old neighbor flipped out about it - DS was keeping up with him). walking by 10 months, speaking several words by 8 months at the latest (which is when he quit sign language, I guess). throwing overhand by a year. jumped with both feet around 16 months (and it scared him so much he laid down & hugged the floor and still refuses to try again). climbing stairs alternating feet without holding on by 20 months, started drawing recognizable pictures around 18 months (of planes, diggers, etc from memory). he's dead on average for height and weight. We'll see if he actually turns out to be "gifted" or not though. But he's working his way through the kindergarten curriculum without being instructed/pushed in any manner - we just suddenly realize he can do random things (knows left vs right, can count past 20, etc). I think our days of spelling things above his head are nearing a close - he got "straw" yesterday.


AllisonR 06-23-2011 12:39 PM

1. Nothing absurd like doing back flips at age 2, but certainly ahead - walking at 9 months, writing her name at 2, biking on normal bike at just over 3, doing 15 somersaults in a row at 3 or 4.... Though I think that second link posted by the OP is way off. I think it represents not what the average child is doing, but what the child for sure should be able to do.


reezley 06-24-2011 01:48 PM

Both ds's were ahead on gross and fine motor skills.  DS2 has always been very capable and stable, the earlier walker (8.5 months), amazing fine motor (very pretty, round handwriting from a very early age, graceful dancer, etc. DS1 was also early (e.g. walked at 10.5 months) but not as "gifted" physically I guess, hurries around and bangs up his legs, wrote very well early but not as careful with it, etc. But DS1 is more an obvious or stereotypical gifted-type personality with the relentless questions and curiosity, etc. The differences are probably largely due to their different personalities now that I write it out!  Or, really who knows which causes what, the abilities or the personality....?


mamazee 06-24-2011 04:20 PM

My 9-year-old was a bit behind on most physical milestones. It was tough because she was so far ahead on some things, particularly language, and she's always been very very tall, so between her speech and size people would think she was older than she was, but then she walked late, and people would ask why she couldn't walk like she was 2.5 or 3 and not walking when she was in fact only like 15 or 16 months. But she has been a bit slow on all physical stuff, from walking to skipping to bike riding to potty training to somersaults to even shoe tying, which took her an incredibly long time to master.

ChristaN 06-25-2011 01:43 PM

My dd10 was, if I recall correctly, about on par with average for most small and gross motor skills.  She's very, very small physically now and I'm not sure if that's been what has kept her from trying with sports, but she's still not really an athlete.  Her interests seem to lie in other areas like theatre as well.

 

Dd12 was very advanced with small motor skills and a bit on the slow end for gross motor.  Again, I suspect that personality played into the gross motor end of things as well as sensory issues on her end.  She didn't walk until 15.5 months but she did it perfectly when she started.  She didn't learn to ride a bike until age 10 by which point it was becoming an embarrassment for her b/c she was going into 7th grade.  She kept telling me that she was going to fall and fracture her hip. 

 

For small motor skills, though, she was taking caps off ballpoint pens and putting them back on with precision by 5 or 6 months of age.  She stacked blocks into high towers by 7 or 8 months and was able to sort complex shapes like multiple different shaped stars, hexagons, octagons, etc. into six sided shape sorters by 10 months...  We used to joke that she would be a neurosurgeon.


FarmerBeth 06-25-2011 03:06 PM

My gifted DD was a 1 physically all around, and everything seemed to come easy.  Now that she's 9, she's evening out more with her peers athletically, although maybe still ahead with sports that involve high levels of body awareness, like gymnastics and horseback riding.  My gifted but also special needs DS was a 2 for gross motor and a three fine motor (still is a 3, although with lots of OT he's somewhat in a low-normal range now).  Despite not being the best socially, he's great at team sports and uses strategy well.  Our most ahead physically is our not academically gifted DS who was playing tennis and knitting at age five but didn't know his letters and had a severe expressive language delay.  I haven't seen any particular correlation with physical skills and academic/intellectual giftedness in my kids or anyone else's.


meemee 06-25-2011 03:22 PM

looking back... dd was early on fine motor skills but late on gross motor skills....

 

however i feel it had everything to do with her 'mind' her personality... nothing about what her body was able to do.

 

dd showed walking readiness at 10 months, but refused to walk till almost 16 months. she is almost 9 now and still cant ride a bike (well a lot could be coz she rides the tandem a lot and hasnt really spent much time on a bike). i can list a bunch of stuff.

 

and here's the reason why. first dd is a perfectionist. two she is extrememly competitive. she came wired this way. i think because of these two characteristics she has been v. v. tenacious. 

 

she is the kind who wont try it unless she knows she can do it. and then she will do them and take off and surpass the other kids. she started walking on day one, by day 2 she had figured out not to crawl anymore in spaces she wasnt sure she could walk to and by day 3 she was running. at the playground no one could tell this child had just started walking. on the very first day of her walk she walked 2 miles with lots of stops and explorations and playing in the park.

 

i had to give away her tricycle coz she refused to sit on it and then suddenly at 3 when her friend came to visit on her tricycle, dd sat on it and rode it all around the block - her first time. 

 

she has done this quite often with many things including reading and puzzles. she takes time to do the first steps and then bounds thru the other steps. and is done with things. if she gets it she does not want to revisit it again, the reason why toys never worked for her. she hates, hates, hates repeatition. with anything. 

 

her personal preference is gross motor skills - not fine. with paintings she has always and to this day prefers large shoulder movement, not short wrist movement. so her art pieces are large - not tiny. 

 

by the time she was 3 i learnt not to freak out about milestones. because i discovered she did her stuff on her own time. 

 

oh and btw she learnt to dance before seh crawled or walked. she'd pull herself up to start the CD player and bob her butt and do the whole travolta grease arm dancing. this was around 6 to 7 months old when seh started sliding across the floor rather than crawling which she did almost at 9 months. 


joensally 06-26-2011 02:29 PM

Is there a correlation between physical milestones and academic giftedness?


ChristaN 06-26-2011 07:18 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post

Is there a correlation between physical milestones and academic giftedness?



Not that I'm aware of.  I've heard all kinds of hypotheses about various things that may be related to intellectual giftedness from early dentition to early development of speech.  Some of them seem to be well accepted as related (such as early well developed speech) while others probably aren't (like getting teeth early).  I've actually never seen any experts hypothesizing that early gross motor skills are related to intelligence. 

 


whatsnextmom 06-27-2011 08:29 AM



There was an old study by Tremain where he concluded that intellectually gifted children were generally strong physically as well but that's the only time I've ever really heard that correlation.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post

Is there a correlation between physical milestones and academic giftedness?



 


moominmamma 06-27-2011 10:19 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post

Is there a correlation between physical milestones and academic giftedness?


I had to look hard to find any mention of a possible correlation. From my reading it looks like there may be a weak association, though one that is mostly evident across populations rather than individuals. (In other words, when comparing gifted and non-gifted groups within-group variability is greater than between-group variability.) I don't think it's surprising that there is some minimal correlation, as I don't think developmental tasks are ever purely "gross motor" or "language" in nature ... there's almost always a contribution from intellectual facets like temperament, focus, alertness, memory and so on.

 

Miranda

 



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