Need help with "laws" and advanced placement for 20m DD. (long post sry) - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by spedteacher30 View Post

We had significant issues in daycare/preschool for our son. We tried age-appropriate settings, we tried mixed age groups. Ultimately, what he really needed was time to grow into his own skin. He is incredibly stubborn, incredibly intense, and advanced cognitively and academically.

 

I also think you would be better served finding her an age-appropriate play-based setting. Most 20 month olds do better with older children, because the older children are able to incorporate the needs of a younger child and have the social skills to share, let things go, etc. 2-3 year olds are still figuring out how to be in the same place together and solve conflicts. there won't be conflicts between a 20 month old and a 6 year old because the 6 year old will let the 20 month old do what s/he wants since 6 year olds understand that 20 month olds are babies.

 

you say your child can't get what she needs in an age-appropriate setting. What are her needs that aren't being met? Perhaps my greatest regret with our son is putting him into a 3-6 Montessori classroom as a 2.5 year old. Cognitively, he was totally ready for the works--in fact, if anything, they never found his sweet spot in terms of work. Socially and emotionally, it was an unmitigated disaster, and they were totally unable to accommodate his asynchronicity.

 



yeahthat.gif  Yes!!!! That!!!!  

 

I wish I could cut this out and make it my original thread starter.  This is what I am trying to solve.  I am going to definitely keep in mind what you are saying about the Montessori thing.  I need to find a place that is age appropriate that can handle her asynchronous issues.  She is very intense and sensitive and has this weird independent/needy thing that is hard to explain.  Her mind can do things her body can't and her emotions explode.   When they all meet up things are great, when they don't...look out.  It's about to get intense.  This happens a lot around the time she starts to take a "leap" of learning something. 

 

She does best with older kids exactly for the reason you are stating, she looks up to them and can play with them, but it is because of THEIR maturity that this works, not because she is anywhere near their age comparative. 

 

I think because in a typical day care setting they aren't really equipped to handle the asynchronous and sensitivities. The "toys" they have aren't "advanced" enough to provide a happy form of play/mental engagement for her and they aren't really prepared for the lash back of a overly frustrated, intense, sensitive, child.  I am trying to formulate a response that would explain more of what activities I think she might do well with and pros and cons of a typical day care, but it is harder than i thought it would be.  What is different about the place she is in now, that was different from a day care?  I think it is the teachers understanding of asynchronous development and how to handle it, and a place that plays outside constantly and has advanced activities that keep her engaged. 

 


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#32 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 04:37 PM
 
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Ok, seriously...I was trying to be kinda nice before. But if i'm blunt I think you are being all "special snowflake" with your daughter. I actually meant preschool as in with her same age mates. She'll be 2 in a few months, and I don't see anything you've said that would necessitate her being placed with older children. Toys that aren't advanced enough?? Maybe it's just me, but I really like me some open ended play :p I fail to see how a toy kitchen wouldn't be fun for your daughter..or blocks, or dolls. Those are toys that would work well for many ages. 

 

This is the reason why I often avoid this forum, so many people think their kids are special snowflakes, especially those with their first child around toddler age. You are way over thinking this imo. Did i read correctly that she's been at SEVEN different daycares?? And she changed so much because they weren't suiting her needs *exactly*? I can't even fathom having so many problems with soo many different places. Maybe I've just lucked out. Coming from a gifted adult with 3 gifted children who have a extremely gifted father....giftedness is way overrated. :p

 


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California regulates daycares and preschools very differently than K-12 education. The school is required to follow the daycare/preschool code if they want to serve children in that age range. The school cannot deviate from the licensing and still serve children of that age. In addition to the state codes, the school might belong to other organizations such as NAECTE that has mandatory requirements as well.

 

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/ord/PG587.htm

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#34 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 08:24 PM
 
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Right, and I think you are missing the point. I also think you should scale it back and go for a play based center. Montessori was a disaster for our son because of the academics. Well, it was a disaster for a lot of reasons, but the academics were a huge part of that. They could not keep him approriately challenged.

He did better in a play based center experience, with little to no academics and only same age peers. The adults in the play based center actually worked with him to learn the social skills he needed.

And. I can't imagine 7 settings before a child is 2. I felt terrible that we had five settings total before kindergarten.
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#35 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can only interpret this as deliberately hurtful when it is started...

 

Ok, seriously...I was trying to be kinda nice before.....
 

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I actually meant preschool as in with her same age mates. She'll be 2 in a few months, and I don't see anything you've said that would necessitate her being placed with older children.

 

One: It was a previous child care and also advice of others who had suggested to me a mix age group would work best for her because of an experience when she was younger.  I have no idea how she would be in a 2-3 year old group, but when she was 1 in a 1-2 year old group, it didn't work.

 

What's so extravagant about a Mom, who after being told your daughter needs a mixed age group setting, acknowledging that her child does well in that environment.  I don't think that assuming my daughter will do well in a 2-4/5 year old group, at the age of 2, is over the top, especially when I have stated that the 3-5 year olds would be someone to look up to.  How is saying when she is two years old she could do well in a mix aged 2+ year old environment....brought on this backlash?

 

Toys that aren't advanced enough?? Maybe it's just me, but I really like me some open ended play :p I fail to see how a toy kitchen wouldn't be fun for your daughter..or blocks, or dolls. Those are toys that would work well for many ages.

 

So do I, and so does my daughter.  She likes to play with dolls, as a matter of fact, her comfort toys are dolls.  She likes blocks too, and a toy kitchen is okay, she likes cars, and those little toy tool benches, but the best open ended play she does is with water.  She really likes her some water play (which makes baths a blast).  There are many things that are open ended that will entertain my DD.  And for some good amounts of time, sometimes for a good while, and sometimes, a short while.  Its not that my DD doesn't like to play, she does...she just also likes to "learn".  She seems to be able to do well with open ended play the best when it is accompanied by other forms of learning stimuli.   When she was in a infant room, as she was a while ago, she wanted to build things and take things apart and put them together, and these types of toys weren't available in an infant room.  Because these types of toys have small parts and were choking hazards to the other infants.  There was a toy kitchen in the room, which she did play with...but when that was the only toy other than rattles and soft big blocks, she just got bored...it's just something that we had to deal with.  The teachers in that class however were wonderful, and they were teaching her how to spell her name and talk in different languages (which sometimes created interesting things at home because I am not bi-lingual) but it was fun.  And they were so caring and trying so hard to keep her occupied, and I knew she was loved and cared for, I never asked for more, and it wasn't me who wanted to move her, it was the teachers and the director, but I will get to that to answer something else you said.

 

You are way over thinking this imo.  Did i read correctly that she's been at SEVEN different daycares?? And she changed so much because they weren't suiting her needs *exactly*?

 

You did read that she has been to 7 and I miscounted she has been to 6.  However she has not changed because I didn't fell that they weren't suiting her needs *exactly*.  This is not how I think.  I think I mentioned that both me and my husband were active duty military and why she has been moved around, but this is basically how it went. 

     First we had her in a one on one care provider.  A lady who did foster care for two other children who she was looking to adopt.  She had been to schools and had training that I loved!  She got "sick" and started passing out and getting dizzy spells at random moments of the day.  This isn't a good scenario, and both me and the lady decided that until she got better or figured out what was wrong, my DD was to young to be in that situation.  I mean, what if she was holding her at the time?  

     Second (still looking for one on one)  I went to a lady who had many children of her own and was just looking for some extra income and was excited about having a little baby in the house to play with.   However, me and her had a falling out, because we had arranged a set price, and then she left a message on my phone on a Sunday night that if I wasn't willing to pay double, I couldn't bring her Monday.  Ironically, I would have paid her that much, but she placed me in a really bad position with work and I felt that the way she went about the whole situation was wrong.  I didn't feel personally comfortable doing "business" with her at that point, however, I never questioned the quality of care she gave my daughter.  My best friend and I actually cried over this because I wasn't sure if I was doing the right thing, but if I couldn't trust that what we agreed upon wouldn't instantly change and me possible not having a place for my DD to go, how could I feel comfortable? 

    Third place:  Highly recommended home care through a Child care center.  Later I was told that my daughter wouldn't be able to go to the house because they found out the lady was being beat by her husband...so then the Child care center took her in.  This is why I still worry about one on one care and prefer care centers. 

     Forth, the CDC watched my DD in an infant room and though she came home with lots of bump and bruises because they weren't use to walkers and she kept falling on things, everything else was perfectly fine, and we didn't worry about the bumps and bruises, because she was learning to walk.  She only moved from the Child Care Center  because we transferred from Va to Ca.           

     Fifth:  She went to a local day care we LOVED!!!  I didn't want her to leave, this is the one I was talking about earlier, it was the teachers and director that felt she needed a different environment...this was this first place that ever mentioned "gifted".  I always knew she hit milestones early, but I just thought it was kind-of cool.  Like well, we have a strong one, hopefully she'll be smart too.   As she stayed at this place longer things got progressively worse for DD's personality.  The teachers asked me to seriously consider moving her, that they loved her, and wished they could do more, but thought it would be best if we could move her appropriately, and they couldn't move her up till she was two.  This is when I did a check up with the "doctor" and asked if this was the case, at which she expressed that she was indeed very advanced in her development, and would probably need a different environment.   This is when I came to this forum asking for advice, and the general thought was, she probably would do better in a mix age group. 

     So, I found the place she is at now, and again, I am not the one that wants to move her, I think she is doing great. 

 

I can't even fathom having so many problems with soo many different places. Maybe I've just lucked out.

 

It would seem so.

 

Coming from a gifted adult with 3 gifted children who have a extremely gifted father....giftedness is way overrated. :p

 

After all the end goal is to provide a happy environment for DD to grow, to blossom into good PERSON, hopefully find the kind of happiness I have found with my husband, and live her life as she wishes.  All things that usually require good days, bad days, and a full time job.  And being intelligent doesn't determine the kind of person you are, how you choose to live your life, or treat the people around you.

 

 I also am not the type to think my daughter is "better than" because she is probably gifted, only that her needs seem to be different, and I am trying to meet them. I am much more impressed with my daughters natural love of people and animals, and her extrovertedness and concern for someones well-being, than I am with some of the other things she does. Even though she does just simply impress me all the time, it is the type of person she seems to be becoming that puts a smile on my face everyday. 

 

 But if i'm blunt I think you are being all "special snowflake" with your daughter. This is the reason why I often avoid this forum, so many people think their kids are special snowflakes, especially those with their first child around toddler age.

 

No need to insult someone.  Some people have a higher view of there child's abilities than may be accurate.  This mentality is not limited to first time mothers, or mothers of bright children.  I don't understand the point of saying "You think your kid is soooooooooo special, role eyes."    

 

But  (if i could be so blunt) I think your assumption of how I view my daughter, is incorrect.  And your approach comes off unnecessarily demeaning.  She is special to me, but that doesn't mean I think she is better than everyone else. And I don't think I deserve to get this kind of negative reaction, to an attempt to do the right thing.

 

 

  I am learning here. 

 

 


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#36 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by spedteacher30 View Post

Right, and I think you are missing the point. I also think you should scale it back and go for a play based center

 

LOL   I hope I'm not still.    I didn't mean I'd consider sending her to one, but seriously consider not, because you said it didn't work and I seemed to relate a lot to your OP.  I was starting to think a play based child care with a small deviation on age, basically a toddlers play group 2-4 maybe? And that way if it doesn't work, at 3, I could always move her back, because she would be old enough then. Or I would just cave in and go back to one on one despite my fears.

 

He did better in a play based center experience, with little to no academics and only same age peers.

 

I would love to have her in a play based child care with same age peers...It just didn't seem to fair to well in her past, but maybe it would be different...IDK, I will just have to see.  Maybe I can ask a place if I can do some trial "drop ins" for a while, and if it works go for it again.

 

And. I can't imagine 7 settings before a child is 2. I felt terrible that we had five settings total before kindergarten.

 

I miss-counted in my head and it's actually only been 6, but yes it completely sucks. 


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#37 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 09:42 PM
 
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I know I felt like this when I made this post.  I didn't mean to be close minded like that.  I should have known better.  My experiences finding places and understanding for my DD has lead me into some bad habits of over reactive defensiveness and a very very inaccurate assumption of "if you were in my shoes you would understand and agree with me."  Lol wrong.  How can I come onto a site and ask for help and be so close minded?  Shame on me.  I am trying to go back and reverse, taking suggestions and advice for what it is, experienced, and caring and honest.  People are trying to post to help me because they have been in my shoes.  And who wouldn't be concerned if they see someone trying to bend the rules, especially when safety can be involved?  Who wouldn't be concerned if there was a toddler in their child's "high school" environment?  I am just going to be really sad to have to see this opportunity go.  But everyone is right.  There are other options, even if you have to change them and keep trying.  It is my job to be open minded, and adaptable, and find those places best for her.

 

 If it were impossible for either parent to be there, I would have sought a nanny who could give one-on-one attention. Is this at all a possibility for you? It's just something I'd seriously explore.

 

I would love love love to be an at home mom.  I also can imagine how difficult it must have been for you and your DH to have to juggle two jobs so someone could always be home.  Unfortunately my DH and I are both active duty military.  Good news is that in about 7 years (when she is 8/9) both or one of us will retire and be home with her (or out with her).  (Here is hoping for the lottery he he).  

I have considered a "nanny" type.  When we did one on one care with her, one lady kept passing out, then the next lady doubled her price and dropped us, and the next lady was being beaten by her husband....All came HIGHLY recommended by friends and the last one was the highest recommend person from a Child Care center and locals.  I though maybe at my house with camera's....I just am SO worried about that after my experiences.  But yes, I would love that!



 

 

 

Hey, I get it. The pressure in the beginning to "get it right" is ridiculously high. I know I worried about everything with my first child and obsessed about things that in the long run, were minor blips... of course, how was I to understand they were minor blips back then? It still hits me at times when we head into unknown territories. I had moments of freak out prior to middle school and high school. My 15-year-old is heading to a special college program in the fall... yeah, it's taking everything in me not to blow my concerns out of proportion. It's totally normal for you to worry and be concerned. Just keep in mind that your DD is growing up in a safe home, food on the table, and parents who listen to and love her. That's 90 percent of good parenting right there!

 

I'm sorry to hear the nanny situation hasn't been working. I guess just keep an eye out for potentiols.... maybe an au pair or a college student... maybe you can find a friend who has someone she likes and is willing to do share. As for her current preschool, you can of course ask but I wouldn't fight it too hard if they say "no" to putting her in the older classes. Give it a try with the 2-year-olds. What she'll lose in peers she'll gain in the smaller ratios and more adult time.

 

 


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#38 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 09:51 PM
 
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This place you describe sounds like homeschool co-op for gifted children-- neither an accredited school nor a licensed day care.  Am I right?  There are only 4 kids there full-time, and your daughter is the youngest by almost 2 years?  I think these people might have been a little too ambitious thinking they could accept toddlers into their program.  I would be upset about a place opening their doors to me without having known about childcare laws.  

 

I don't know about loopholes.  But, my advice for childcare if this doesn't work out would be to seek out a small in-home setting with mixed ages.  You had mentioned upthread that some parents come and stay with their children part-time.  How awesome would it be to find one of these homeschooling parents to watch and educate your daughter during the day?  As far as preschool, we went the play-based route and have had no problems.  

 

I thought the 18-24 months were the most difficult months for me.  It is just a difficult age.  The way your daughter is behaving is just how this age group acts.  It has very little to do with being advanced or daycare settings.

 

 

 

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#39 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 09:53 PM
 
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Don't waste your time figuring out the laws and legal issues on your own - let the child care center do it, it's part of their job description.  Your job is to find out if what they offer can work for you or not.   If not, find another one that can.  If you were stuck in some public school and you have to navigate the system on your own, that's a different story.  But before kindergarten, it's more flexible.

 

The emphasis on providing stimulation and everything educational at all times has its limits - sometimes children need to figure out how to entertain themselves with very simple toys, not even toys, almost all age-appropriate objects will do.  Nothing educational, nothing advanced, plain boring old ... stuff ... - a simple block, a wheel, paper towel roll etc.  It can be very surprising what they can come up with, even from a toddler.  Boredom, under-stimulation, sometimes can be the impetus of very creative things.

 

Bottomline, when a kid is advanced for their age, you usually have 2 options -  let them go deeper or let them go wider with their interests.  Either is fine, both is fine, neither is fine too.

 

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#40 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This place you describe sounds like homeschool co-op for gifted children-- neither an accredited school nor a licensed day care.  Am I right?  There are only 4 kids there full-time, and your daughter is the youngest by almost 2 years?  I think these people might have been a little too ambitious thinking they could accept toddlers into their program.  I would be upset about a place opening their doors to me without having known about childcare laws.  


This is pretty much it.  Yes, it is an upset.

 

How awesome would it be to find one of these homeschooling parents to watch and educate your daughter during the day?

 

Great suggestion!!!!!!!!!!!  I am going to ask just that!  Thank you. Many parents always offer to watch her, one in particular...loves her and always asks...it might not work, but man that would be great.  

 

The way your daughter is behaving is just how this age group acts. It has very little to do with being advanced or daycare settings.

 

Good to know, sometimes it is hard to tell the difference for me.

 


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#41 of 44 Old 04-02-2012, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for that...after some really great posts and words of encouragement I am starting to realize this is not "the end of the world" lol...

Thank you for the warm and fuzzy, "that's okay, I've done it too, she's gonna be just fine"  Really, it helps!!! 

 


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#42 of 44 Old 04-03-2012, 07:51 AM
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I'm trying to put together the pieces here:

 

1. Your dd, 20 months, has recently started attending a school for gifted children aged 2 - 17.

2. The school is new and is still working to comply with state regulations. 

3. At this time, the school has only three full time students, whose parents do not leave during the program day.

4. There are also students with disabilities served by the program.

 

Based on this information, there is no way I would leave my child in this care situation.

 

Consider:

- the facility is not yet licensed or accredited.  Which might be OK except,

- they were taken surprise by the rules in re. 2yos, which means they are not familiar with the regulations.

- Apparently, this concerns other parents too, because while they are paying full time tuition, they are not willing to leave their children in the facility's care.  They are there all the time - what are they seeing that makes them feel they have to be on site with their kids throughout the entire program?  Why has the facility not been able to recruit full time students whose parents need to leave? 

- I don't know what kinds of disabilities you're talking about here, but I'm concerned that they may be in the process of throwing their doors open to all and sundry in the interests of raising their student count and sucking in some funding which can easily displace all other parts of the mission for new schools.  I'm not convinced that these people who are not familiar with state regulations are well-qualified to meet the educational and social-emotional needs of a diverse population of learners.  

 

It sounds to me like you've been sold a line of goods.  I've heard stuff like this before - you know.  "Our program is so awesome.  We want everyone to have a good experience.  Your child is so special.  She's such a great fit.  We want to keep working with her.  She brings in so much.  She's so sweet and smart and adorable and she just lights up our staff's lives.  It just hurts our hearts to think of her going to a different program."  Where is the information about what the program does for your dd?  These people have a lot of titles, but what are their credentials? 

 

Your child is 20 months old.  Her feelings are not a great indicator of the program's quality.  At 20 months, my dd was IN LOVE with a daycare provider who left her standing at the side of a busy street outside a city playground.  If the school was on top of things, your dd would never have been enrolled.  If they are any good, the school will still be around when she is old enough to attend preschool.  You need another option for this year.  A nanny might fit the bill.  A small at-home daycare with a mom who has older kids might work well.  You might have to settle for a center for the next 4-6 months. 

 

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3. At this time, the school has only three full time students, whose parents do not leave during the program day. 

 

- Apparently, this concerns other parents too, because while they are paying full time tuition, they are not willing to leave their children in the facility's care.  They are there all the time - what are they seeing that makes them feel they have to be on site with their kids throughout the entire program?  Why has the facility not been able to recruit full time students whose parents need to leave? 

 


Pretty much except the highlights.  The school has three full time kids, whose parents do not accompany their children during the day.  Those who attend part time are sometimes accompanied by their parents and sometimes not.  I don't think there is a lack of trust issue between the parents and the school, or that they are trying to sell anything other than what they have, but that it just my impression. 

 

Yea, I am thinking of looking at the prices for a Nanny.  Then maybe seeing about a neighbor and/or a couple of the parents at the co-op.  I think I am going to try a local day care too.  This might provide a great opportunity to try out some other things...see if we can place her back in the normal shuffle of things.  

 

 


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#44 of 44 Old 04-05-2012, 09:15 PM
 
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My suggestion, in order to keep her relationships with people at that program, and comply with the laws, is to see if one of the part-time parents who home schools would be able to babysit your daughter?

 

Your daughter could go with that person as her caregiver to the homeschool program part-time, keeping up the relationships she's made. Then legally, I imagine it's like your nanny/babysitter taking her to any other homeschool program the family might attend, and the babysitter is the one legally responsible for the child the entire time, not the school/program. 

 

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