Raising my 9 yr old, I did think she was bright. I would have considered her maybe gifted but she has lower EQ, is unaware of her surroundings, needs multiple reminders often and that combination gets her in trouble quite frequently. I had not considered testing her until one week ago when her teacher suggested we get tested. So dd just took her test and got her score. Although I've been reading about WISC-IV test since last week, her score puzzles me. The Dr. who gave dd her test had to leave quickly and explained in 10 minutes what the scores meant but it sounded like Latin to me at that moment. I didn't even get to ask any questions. I would really appreciate it if you could kindly share your knowledge with me.
So this is what I have:
(I took down the specific scores for privacy reasons since this post has been up for a while. I hope it's okay. )
What intersted me were the WMI, PS scores.
30 plus points difference between Verbal and WMI seems strange to me. Does that gap mean something significant? It seems that way to me. She does need multiple reminders for many things ( change your clothes, put your homework away, etc) but now I am worried.
And why are we given the GAI when the FSIQ is already calculated? Is there a specific purpose and usage for GAI?
Could the GAI score be used instead of the FSIQ when applying to programs and schools?
I am pretty sure I'm not even asking all the right questions here but if you could please interpret this puzzling score and teach me what I need to know, I would be truly grateful!
Wow. Those are great scores. The working memory and the processing are significantly lower, making the GAI the better measures of your daughter's abilities. However, they are both still in the high average/ superior range, so there is probably not much to worry about (I'm not an expert, but it's what I was told).
For reference, my son's processing is in the low 120s and the rest of the scores were gifted. He has no serious academic issues- I do notice that some longer problems (word problems) frustrate him a bit and he is a bit slower at timed tests (math facts) than the advanced stuff.
It's very normal for gifted kids to score high on the abstract stuff and lower on working memory and/or processing. It's also pretty normal to have to remind and repeat with kids.
Hi CamMom! Thank you so much for your response. Your respose made me feel better.
My daughter is, according to her teachers, such a weird blend of great and bad that it's hard to pin point who she is. When they expect more from her- she dissapoints, and when they expect nothing- she shocks/amazes them. They said it's very tiring to deal with that. Her third grade teachers have been very vocal about their frustrations. It's a big bunch of very discouraging statements to hear from teachers but a part of me agrees. It's interesting that even her test scores are not a cluster of similar numbers but quite the blend! I guess that is why I feel so uneasy. I am worried that the 32 points is an indication of serious issues that she might have had all this time.
I'll need to learn more about each score to help her with what she needs so that she can have fun learning even in the classroom. Does your son go to a school that supports his giftedness? My daughter's teacher told me that she couldn't do anything more for my daughter even if she's evaluated as gifted. So....I need to start looking really hard for something that could help my child (with no help from her school).
Thank you CamMom and hope you have a wonderful day.
Your daughter's scores are very high- abstract abilities (GAI) exceeding the 99.9th percentile. I cannot imagine that a regular public school classroom, even if she gets gifted pull outs once per week is going to be nearly enough. I don't know what environment would be best for your DD- a private school that can meet her needs (and that took a lot shopping and one trial/error for us), a school specifically for gifted children that can work with their social/emotional needs (rare), or homeschool.
If you have not done so, you may want to join the Davidson forum. They have a lot of discussion about school issues- and may give better advice. You will see that you are far from alone.
Dear CamMom, " disengaged" was the word I was looking for when I tried to talk to my daughter's teachers! Just like your son, my girl is careless and makes many mistakes. She glosses over questions too because in her words she "knew the question was so easy". I wrote to her teacher today and we are meeting next week to discuss what to do next. I hope they understand that she's not a bad child. She's just bored and disengaged......
There is a school quite a drive from where we live that is a "gifted children only" private school. I'm not too sure yet if my girl meets their minimum I.Q requirement and the I can't call today since office is closed now.
The more I read, the more I feel lost. I'd better go grab another cup of coffee before it's too late and read some more :) !
CamMom, thank you for your responses.
For the gifted school- you will want to ask them what tests they accept and if they will accept a private test. It's possible that they may insist upon testing your DD themselves on the Stanford Binet.
Once the eligibility hurdles are cleared- it could be a matter of fit. In our case, flexibility was a top priority-- so Montessori works best for DS. It certainly doesn't work for every gifted student.
As an aside, you may consider having a psychologist administer an individual achievement test. They are valuable information because they don't have ceilings like school standardized tests. If your DDs achievement scores even approach her IQ, she is probably drastically under stimulated in her present classroom.
I don't know, rather than looking at her low scores and worrying about them, I think you could take the scores as her being gifted all over, and especially verbally gifted.
You might look into Davidson Young Scholars. The GAI and verbal scores are high enough to meet their IQ criteria, but you'd also need privately-administered achievement test scores.
As far as gifted programs in schools, they all have vastly differing admissions criteria. Our local ones won't even consider IQ test scores and only accept scores from group tests they administer themselves. But many districts and schools are more reasonable and flexible. It's a good sign that they came to you proactively to get testing done. Hopefully that means they're interested in providing her with more appropriate academic work so she won't be bored.
Interesting - I was going to write almost the same thing as Aufilia: I would try to reframe her abilities to yourself as "clearly gifted, with a particular talent in the verbal field", rather than look for a problem (well obviously there is one, but it has to do with how far she is beyond her classmates intellectually altogether, and very little if at all with the internal discrepancy) Her WM, PS and PRI scores all within a range of 13 points, place her solidly into moderately gifted territory, but her verbal abilites shine far beyond that. If you read this article https://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/newiqtests.htm you will realize that her WM and PS scores are actually quite extraordinary. The higher an individual score is, the higher the probability for subtest scatter.
With these scores, she might be a star student both in a gifted program or a high achiever program, as long as they manage to engage her in the verbal field. If she is fairly mature for her age and enjoys hanging out with older children, she might be a good candidate for a grade skip, too. I would not worry about whether her scores are high enough for a private school for the gifted - a school that sets the bar at a full scale IQ of 145 would so seriously decimate their applicant pool they could not stay in business, that is something only the Davidson school in Reno can afford. You are probably going to realize that the scores demanded are closer to 120, with a sizable component of achievement scores, too. Depending on their attitude towards differentiation, it might still be a better fit than her current school. Sadly, some private school have a "one size fits all" mentality and may try to tell you their program is so rigorous it challenges all children and " we have many kids like your daughter". Oh no, not with a VRI of 152, you don't...
So, how to engage her, wherever she ends up - she's almost guaranteed to be the only kid with a verbal IQ this high? In theory, verbal abilities should be easier to differentiate for in the classroom than maths, for instance. She can read more challenging book, write more detailed book reports, create more interesting compositions. (Check out older threads about recommendations for books with a reading level appropriate for preteens and teens, but subject matter appropriate for a much younger child - the question comes up here a lot.) You might let her self teach how to type with a free program, which makes it easier for her to creater her own stories or poetry at home. You could start her on a foreign language not taught in your school system (careful with group lessons, though. I found out that trying to learn a language that is being taught at the average level of after school or evening classes is even more deadly than school. Rather read a good book instead or try out Rosetta stone or stuff like that).
Depending on whe else is verbally gifted in your family (I'm assuming she came by it honestly, as the saying goes) she may explore her interests with you or her daed or a grandparent, or she may need a mentor. I do not think there is a way school, any school, will be able to fill her mind to her satisfaction.
Thank you so much for your response Aufilia and Tigerle! She is such a crazy blend of characteristics that don't fit her current score. She did so well verbally in the test but in real life she takes a long time (compared to her friends) to spit out words and she's far from an eloquent speaker. As a baby she started speaking quite late too. She is considered a "slightly strange geek" by some or most of her classmates although thankfully she's never picked on. I think even adults find her alightly odd. Kids play with her but she's never their first choice. She's very happy and content overall but I know for a fact she will not do well skipping a grade socially.
Funny thing is she's actually better with numbers than with words. That's the area that all the teachers point to as her strength when they first see her. She can add, subtract (sometimes multiply) complicated multi-digit numbers in her head which suggests she has good working memory but her scores say her verbal ability is much higher. I'm writing this while watching her restart her sentence three times talking to her younger sister. She's a puzzle that I hope to understand soon.
All worries aside, I think both your comments really made me see my daughter's scores in a different light. I should focus on her strengths! I am looking into different achievement tests right now and when we find one that her school prefers we'll get her tested and see what those scores say. But It seems like everything is expensive.
Thank you both so much for helping me!!