Support for Parents of Gifted Children, #2 - Page 7 - Mothering Forums
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#181 of 426 Old 10-12-2004, 09:29 PM
 
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That sounds like my Sophia, Q of C's...she just seems older...and she understands, well everything...and there is a genetic component...

and sometimes someone will say "well my child could do that at 15mos" but then I tell them "yeah but she's been doing it since she was 11mos" then they kinda look doubtful at me.

Sophia signed milk at 5mos(it only took a few days)...I thought it was because it was so easy but now that I have other friends whose children sign and they said it took their children weeks at 7-8 mos...

So like you I am seeing signs but in no way know for sure until later

Sophia is now 15 mos and getting verbal..60plus words...so we should soon find out for sure...
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#182 of 426 Old 10-12-2004, 10:36 PM
 
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I was reading something about home schooling over the past year (I can't remember the source) and the author spoke on the topic of "socialization". He/she basically said that much is made out of kids needing to "socialize" but that the downsides also need to be considered.

For example, if you've been careful about what ds/dd has been exposed to he/she can be turned onto toy guns, sugary snacks, excessive video games/TV, too much commercialism, what have you, all thanks to exposure to other kids via "socialization"... so socialization is not all 100% positive. Not that children don't need friends- they do. Just that a large classroom environment may not be all upside for your child's development either.
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#183 of 426 Old 10-12-2004, 11:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Queen of Cups
It said that research has shown there's no way to accurately predict if a child will be gifted before speech develops,
Unless they read before they talk. I used to joke that I had the only kid in town who could type "Mommy" (at 20 months) but not say it (until 29 months). The reading/typing made me less worried about the not talking!


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but the best indicators in babies are visual awareness, the ability to respond to verbal cues, and unusually long attention spans. Killy was holding his head up to look around at one day old, and the first thing everyone says about him was that he seems VERY aware compared to other babies his age. By six weeks old he knew to open his mouth if I said, "Where doe the paci go?" and he made the sign for "mommy milk" at about three months old.
Yes, it shows somehow or other - I could see Ben "thinking" the very first day of his life. He'd look at something, look at the next thing, back at the first thing and his brow would wrinkle. You could see the wheels going round. Whereas the other babies I saw were opening their eyes, going "What the - ???!!!!" and screaming blue murder, Ben had a look on his face like "This is beyond bizarre...but very interesting all the same." By the time he was a couple of months old he would sit and watch a classical violin recital video - just a guy standing ther playing - with complete attention for 25 minutes straight - a hint of the talent for music which was revealed later.

Cool, isn't it?! Like you I didn't necessarily assume it would be that way, but it's a lot of fun when it appears. Enjoy!
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#184 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 05:37 AM
 
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Thanks all, I am leaning pretty heavily on the homeschool front now. I am really interested in this computing for youngens. I fear seeming pushy, as dd is only 2.5, but I get a feeling she would pick up quickly. Any program suggestions? Drawing pages, coloring - what is easiest for young ones?

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#185 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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qoc, i'm so glad to see you here! have you noticed how little i discuss boobah's milestones in the birthday thread? :LOL she's also very alert, and quite a little person. if only she'd stop throwing up for ten minutes...

yesterday, i sat with my younger niece (4 years old, pervasive developmental disorder) and started doing some phonics work. i'm absolutely positive that she can and will be reading with no effort at all in about two months. she remembers *everything*. the thing is, she can't write at all, because she doesn't have the muscle memory to hold a pencil. if you hold you hand over hers, you can feel that sometimes her grip is too loose, sometimes it's too tight, she presses too hard on the paper or not at all... it's really frustrating. she's also incapable of staying on a task or keeping her eyes on what she's doing. she can tell you what sound every letter makes, and give you several words that begin with it but she gets distracted. "thassa letter 'a'. a is for aunt like jennifer!" (runs over to jennifer) "i love you jennifer! you are a aunt! yay! where's beanbean? i love you beanbean!" and on like that. she's a really sweet kid, but it can be really difficult to watch her. she's very bright, but she's also definately not quite right. I just don't know what to make of it. my mother wonders if getting her a typewriter wouldn't be a more reasonable thing to do than expecting her to write, but i'm not sure. I may ask about it in a different thread.

my older niece is beginning saxon math 2 and is doing very well in her other schoolwork. i had mom order the second grade books because she's going to need them in about two weeks. i love homeschooling her and i'm so freaking glad to be doing it! i get to do something i've always wanted to do and to work out the kinks before i get to beanbean in any serious way. it's lovely. she's also so happy to be out of my mother's house, which is no big surprise to anyone who's spent any amount of time there.

yesterday, someone new was shocked that beanbean is only going to be 2. when i say his birthday is in a few weeks, they all say "so he's going to be three? was he a preemie, he's really small for his age..." the thing is, his speech isn't what i'd consider fabulously perfect or anything. i guess that people expect boys his age not to be at all understandable by anyone outside of the family, so when he says "hi, you've got a red honda civic! there's a baby in there! vote for kerry!" they're just blown out of the water because they understand him.

totally T okay, i admit it: i think it's adorable when he tells people "vote for kerry! john kerry's our guy!" : my niece was so funny at the IL's house this weekend. they were watching the news and talking about bush and bush voters, and chibichibi said "I don't know why they're talking about voting for bush, everybody's voting for that other guy. what's his name again?" it's true: everyone in her circle of grownups who's talked about politics (except for the IL's) is voting for "that other guy." :

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#186 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 12:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Britishmum
At the moment it is making up stories. They compete to both tell stories in the car, and go on and on and on. Interrupting one another constantly and adding in ideas to each other's stories, some that the other one likes, some that annoy the other and create an argument. Then I'm supposed to remember how each story goes. Aaagh. Sometimes I just want a pause button for one minute. The talking starts the moment they get up and doesnt end until the eventually go to sleep.
This is just starting to happen with my two. They're 4 and 2. It started because #2 is suddenly more bold with her words. She suddenly figured out how to enunciate, after months of frustrated attempts at explaining things to us (with babbling that... I'm sorry, I just couldn't understand). Before, she would get so angry and resentful from not being understood. She would tell us something long and elaborate, see our blank stare, cry, and refuse to talk to us again. So, now she is so happy to share her thoughts with us, that she sometimes just talks on and on, about nothing! She'll come up and point out random things: "How are you Mommy? I..I..I...I.. wear shirt! Are you wearing a shirt? May..May...may...may...may..be Mehhhhhgan wear shirt too?" And she embellishes things she says in order to speak longer, if you know what I mean. So, here she is, starting to tell me stories that go on forever that make very little sense, but I'm excited and I'm really eager to communicate with her. And my 4 year old wants me to be excited about her stories too. So they like to stand infront of me, and both rattle off right infront of me, simultaneously.

One thing I started doing, that's been working pretty well (after 2 times), is to write down the stories as they say them. I designated a "story notebook," and a special "story pen," and I sit down all matter-of-factly, and write down the stories. The first time, we did a round robin, with initials before each of our "contributions." Then I had us each sign at the end, which was slightly disastrous, 'cause #2 started drawing over the story, so I had to give her some art stuff to do. The second time we did it, I didn't include #2 because she was reading (to herself - with made-up stories and memorized parts - another thing she loves to do now). And #1 had a chance to present her own story to Daddy when he got home, which he read two times out loud, as per her request.

The kids' urges to hurl stories at me have subsided for the time being. I think something about me demonstrating proof that I was paying close attention (writing down verbatim is good proof) and being able to preserve the stories for sharing later (rather than on Mommy's impossibly poor memory) have really assured the kids that their stories matter. #1 used to stop mid-story and quiz me, and I had a really hard time with it. I'm not an auditory-listener, and my memory is very poor. I'd tell a story one night and forget it for the next night. #1 would try to remind me of the characters and action and some of the wording, but you know, it just doesn't really work. I think I'm going to have us rely more on writing things down as a family.
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#187 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Queen of Cups
It stressed that generally schools don't test for giftedness until about 3rd grade and gave lots of suggestions for parents of gifted kids younger than that. It said that research has shown there's no way to accurately predict if a child will be gifted before speech develops, but the best indicators in babies are visual awareness, the ability to respond to verbal cues, and unusually long attention spans.
I've always wondered about this. Do schools really think that kids aren't gifted until they're 7-9 years old, that the kids were perfectly average until they'd had a few years of "formal education?" That's pretty messed up.

There are very few accurate predictors of adult IQ score in an infant, but to say that there's no way to predict whether or not a child will be gifted... well, I'll have to disagree with that one. For years, they said that children could not be autistic until they were 5 or 6 years old, despite parent's statements to the contrary. Today children as young as 12 months are diagnosed as "performing on the autistic spectrum" with the average age of diagnosis being 18 months. Even before that, early intervention will see a child and evaluate them as young as 6 months. When my niece couldn't sit up or roll over without help at 6 months, an appointment was scheduled for an evaluation. Her social skills were already behind. 20 years ago, noone would consider evaluating a child that young, but today it's fairly commonplace.

I guess what I'm saying is, if more attention was paid to gifted infants and children, I'm confident that the research would indicate that, as with children performing on the other end of the spectrum, parents can often tell that their child is different long before conventional tests do. I'm sure that they'd come up with some way of determining, concretely, that a child is gifted at a very early age, and that appropriate interventions would be available, particularly for profoundly gifted children living in poverty; in my opinion, no child in this country is more short-changed than a profoundly gifted child living in poverty.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#188 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eilonwy
I guess what I'm saying is, if more attention was paid to gifted infants and children, I'm confident that the research would indicate that, as with children performing on the other end of the spectrum, parents can often tell that their child is different long before conventional tests do.
I think most parents can tell, but lots are reluctant to admit it, either to themselves or others. And the ones who do talk about it are generally told that "it all evens out." I think it's a shame there's not more research pertaining to gifted and--in particular--highly/profoundly gifted children. I ended up chucking all my baby books when my son was about a year old because they had no relevance to my child. He was on a totally different curve, and not necessarily advanced in all areas, just DIFFERENT if you see what I mean.
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#189 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 01:35 PM
 
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Hmmm... Rynna, I agree that parents can often tell long before testing that a child is gifted. I think the gist of the research was that there have been no studies so far that were able to predict with any accuracy wether or not infants became gifted children. Not that its not possible, but just that its never been done - if that makes sense. I'm sure I didn't word it properly in my first post. I did notice that you don't mention BooBah's milestones very much in the monthly group - I'm sure I border on obnoxious talking about Killy, but to be perfectly honest: I'm proud of him and I don't exagerate anything, so I have no problem sharing with family/friends/other moms what Killy is doing. I'm not going to create a culture of being self-concious about ability, either IRL or on the net. It always burned me up that my in-laws told my husband he wasn't allowed to tell anyone his IQ after it was tested. He and I had been engaged for a year before he told me his IQ is 150 - and that is not something to be ashamed of! All that being said, you have to do /share what YOU feel comfortable with... I'm just not a private person (as I'm sure you've noticed!), so I share everything and won't treat my child(ren)'s abilities differently than anything else.

Mama to DS (05/04) and DD (11/05), married to a wonderful DH.
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#190 of 426 Old 10-13-2004, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Queen of Cups
Hmmm... Rynna, I agree that parents can often tell long before testing that a child is gifted. I think the gist of the research was that there have been no studies so far that were able to predict with any accuracy wether or not infants became gifted children. Not that its not possible, but just that its never been done - if that makes sense. I'm sure I didn't word it properly in my first post. I did notice that you don't mention BooBah's milestones very much in the monthly group - I'm sure I border on obnoxious talking about Killy, but to be perfectly honest: I'm proud of him and I don't exagerate anything, so I have no problem sharing with family/friends/other moms what Killy is doing. I'm not going to create a culture of being self-concious about ability, either IRL or on the net. It always burned me up that my in-laws told my husband he wasn't allowed to tell anyone his IQ after it was tested. He and I had been engaged for a year before he told me his IQ is 150 - and that is not something to be ashamed of! All that being said, you have to do /share what YOU feel comfortable with... I'm just not a private person (as I'm sure you've noticed!), so I share everything and won't treat my child(ren)'s abilities differently than anything else.
Truth be told, I think you've got a much healthier outlook on this than I do. To this day, I'm embarassed to tell people my IQ. I'm pretty sure that it's because I don't want to have to explain myself, that I don't want to justify not living up to my potential. If I just pretend that I and my children and husband are perfectly average, I don't have to explain why we're poor, you know? People assume that if you've got a high IQ you're really smart, and if you're really smart you ought to be rich. You also shouldn't have the same problems as normal people-- if you've got a high IQ, for example, you should be able to finish college in a heartbeat even though your mother had a heart attack and your sister had a baby and you're supposed to be taking care of them and dealing with your bills and such. Smart people are apparently great at dealing with money, time management, and all sorts of other things at which I suck royally.

I'm very impressed by my children, I love watching them do things and I love to talk about the things they can do, but I get really depressed when I talk about it to other parents. Sure, it's not actually my problem if people start worrying about their kids because they're not like mine, but I feel like it's somehow my fault. It's one more reason on the long list to keep them out of school. I'm not uncomfortable talking about them, I just hate feeling like I'm upsetting other parents or something... argh.

At any rate, here's what my kids are doing today!

ChibiChibi and I were reading about evolution. BeanBean stood nearby, very interested. When I finished reading, BeanBean said "Evolution is animals changed." Then he pointed to the picture of the moth (they always talk about those moths who changed color because of the factories, you know?) and said "Is it a butterfly?" I told him it was a moth and he said "Oh, it's a moth. It's evolved." Then he walked away to play with his cars again. What a cutie!

BooBah is on the verge of crawling. She pulls herself up on her hands and knees and rocks back and forth with this intense look on her face. She can make her hands go forward one at a time, but when she tries to move one of her knees she falls over. Even so, she's well on her way. It's really freaking cool to watch her. The little wheels are turning and she's getting there in a hurry.

Yesterday, BooBah said "hug," so I picked her up to give her a hug and she just looked at me and said "hug Eli." :bgeyes When BeanBean came and gave her a hug, she giggled and grinned the biggest BooBah smile. She had what she wanted, and it was all good. Such a lovey!

ChibiChibi finished two pages of math in about 4 minutes; she read the instructions herself and finished the "guided practice" before I could get out of the bathroom (I had to put BeanBean in the shower; he's got a tummy ache and has been pooping, well, everywhere ).

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#191 of 426 Old 10-14-2004, 10:11 AM
 
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It's because I am home with her and wasn't home with the other 2...that's why Sophia "seems" advanced...

that was what my MIL said yesterday on the phone...so are you trying to make me feel guilty about being a working mom when they were little or are you saying I am drilling her or what?

My MIL is not bad, really good grandmother but this irritated me. I HAD to work when my older children were small but I was a very involved mama. I think that baby has advantages because now I can SAH but I don't think higher intelligence is one of them.

She just "gets" things the others didn't get at the same age.

Like when I said "oh, there is dirt on the floor" and she picked it up and carried it to the garbage. I didn't know she knew what garbage was even and this was quite a while ago. If I had said "put this in the garbage" I would have been surprised that she knew but to make the stretch she did and to know what I would like done about it...well I think thats super at a year.

They will be here in 10 days for a 2 week visit and I hope they see a little for themselves what she is like, what we have been trying to describe to them. But she is shy and doesn't adjust well to change so maybe not.

Also, did any of your kids do this? She is at about 50-60 words as of 2 weeks ago...she uses "duh" and "blah blah blah" appropriately etc.(got it from older girls) so I know she is ok but it seems she suddenly also stopped doing other things.

She won't play itsy bitsy spider any more for instance and she knew the actions when she was 8 mos old...has she grown out of it?

Also she has a Wiggles dvd which she watches once a day...if I try to put on another DVD for variety she freaks out...she ONLY watches that one...she did it before with her old Wiggles DVD(a christmas one ) and then I bought the new one and she started watching it. Now if I put the old one in she flips...btw she knew all the actions to all the songs on the old one!

It's almost like she gets immersed in something and has no room for anything else until she is ready.

Also sometime when I buy her a new toy she gets angry and wants it gone...I have to remove it and take it away from the other toys...after a few days she will go and play with it and eventually she will bring it to her toy area but it has to be on her terms. The only exception is books....she loves books and "reads" to me every day...she makes up stories...it's awesome...I love this kid!
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#192 of 426 Old 10-14-2004, 03:47 PM
 
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My dc, particularly ds, become obsessed with certain things for a while and then completely abandons them. It seems to be a "learned what I needed to there--done for now" simply following a natural loss of interest.

Like chanting numbers and mathemtaical operations virtually nonstop for a couple of months and now--well he likes numbers and talks about them but not so much. He has these things "imprinted" now or something. He gets one book he loves and wants to hear it so many times...it's like a long, deep meditation on the rhythm of the words. (He's very aural.) It's like he's etching every nuance into his mind, and then it's HIS--he OWNS it. Does this make sense? He thinks like no one I have ever known except his father.

Part of my work with his special needs is to try to understand him so well like I am inside him thinking the way he does... and it is such a strange experience.

I do believe that the tendency to "immerse" in an interest is a tendency of gifted children and highly intelligent children.

Try not to worry abouut what your MIL can or can't recognize. Your dd's abilities speak for themselves for those who listen--but you can't give your MIL ears to hear what you do. Let her love her grandchildren--she probably will see it but does it matter so long as she thinks they're wonderful? Wait for her to say something and maybe you'll get to nod knowingly. Otherwise, she can just chalk it up to youu being a wonderful mom. Look to others for greater understanding.

I wouldn't talk to my MIL about stuff like that. No way. Too weird. But I really have very little to talk to her about at all.

How old is yuor littlest, again? Mine is 2 tomorrow. She has been surprisingly, complexly verbal for most of the past year. I know she's ahead but not much else. I think we are in a similar place with this? I just love listening to her talk

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#193 of 426 Old 10-14-2004, 11:05 PM
 
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Sophia is 15.5 mos...

I don't really worry about my mil except that she is staying with us for a couple of weeks and that is somewhat stressful. I guess I just got my back up with her that somehow something I am doing is why she's the way she is and by default, the things I didn't do with the others was to their detriment.

It doesn't matter to me what other people think but already I am getting the usual "you spend a lot of time with her" comment and the "how are you teaching her all these things?" and all I am doing is responding to her and talking to her...

I guess it's isolating really...I dont know how often I get the question "how old is she?" when she does something beyond her age...

She is also very cautious which leads me to another question...

Is being shy a terrible thing to some people?..I just see it as a personality trait, neither good nor bad, that most children grow out of if they are treated sensitively. but when I told someone my daughter was shy they seemed shocked I would say something like that about her...as if I had said she's bad or something...

She is the first child that is reserved like this so I have no experience but all I know is if you try to push her she rebels and is terribly anxious after...

like the playgroup lady who picked her up at the breastfeeding rally...baby was playing off by herself and I was so pleased at how well she was getting along and moving away from me and a stupid lady picks her up facing outwards under the arms while carrying another child. I am not quite sure why she picked her up, she wasn't doing anything but Icould see the terror in her eyes. She didn't know this woman...she squirmed until she put her down and made a beeline for me...poor dear....and I consoled her and told her she was ok...she wasn't crying but she was upset.

Any experience with shy, reserved children mamas?
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#194 of 426 Old 10-14-2004, 11:34 PM
 
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My almost5yo dd is very very shy. I think it's sweet. I love it.

(Actually my oldest is outgoing to the extreme, which is hard for me to coexist with, so the mild and cautious ways of #2 have been a relief)

But people always try and try and try to get her to join in group activities she's not ready for. Even when I say that she really wants to just watch for now they seem to consider it their duty to be persistently "encouraging." Really it is irritating and discouraging to us both. It seems difficult for many people to value and respect this temperament. That woman picking up Sophia was rude, IMO. I always feel that I should ask a child's permission in some way--or ask for a cue that it's comfortable--before picking up a young child who doesn't know me.

I think US culture values assertiveness and bold individuality a lot, too. I guess maybe that makes shyness less desirable?

I thought it was nice when Kyla found out what the word shy meant, because it gave her a name for the fact that she gets tongue-tied when a buddy comes to visit or nervously hides from relatives. She seemed happy, like this word was a special discovery.

I hope things go alright with your visit and that it's not too stressful.

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#195 of 426 Old 10-15-2004, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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like the playgroup lady who picked her up at the breastfeeding rally...baby was playing off by herself and I was so pleased at how well she was getting along and moving away from me and a stupid lady picks her up facing outwards under the arms while carrying another child. I am not quite sure why she picked her up, she wasn't doing anything but Icould see the terror in her eyes. She didn't know this woman...she squirmed until she put her down and made a beeline for me...poor dear....and I consoled her and told her she was ok...she wasn't crying but she was upset.

BeanBean is, as I mentioned earlier, very outgoing and sociable. I've seen him run up to strange women and ask for hugs, and most of the time when someone else picks him up he thinks it's very funny, especially if I'm nearby. Even so, if someone swooped down on him from behind and picked him up so he couldn't see their face and he didn't know who they were, he'd react the same way your daughter did. Then he'd come flying to me and ask to nurse. That's not shyness, that's instinct and it's a good, healthy, natural reaction. Isn't it amazing how instinct can protect even the smallest children?

This morning, BeanBean woke me up by putting his little face right next to mine and saying, "Momma, I like to nurse. You nurse your BeanBean." Then he climbed into the blankets and tried to dislodge his sister from her position under my arm. When I changed BooBah's diaper, he picked up the diaper, and, cradling it like it was something precious, started singing "put it in the hamper, put it in the hamper," as he walked to deposit it in said hamper.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#196 of 426 Old 10-15-2004, 01:41 PM
 
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Good point Eilonwy and I agree that what she did would have caused any child to have a negative reaction...it's just that with Sophia being so reserved and finally taking a chance...well it affected her greatly and she wouldn't leave the circle for the rest of the day. And she was definitely more reserved again in playgroup and KinderMusik the following week.

That lady has been filling in for another lady at our playgroup and Sophia just doesn't like her(and I don't think that's why because I don't know she even saw who had her that day)and it's like the lady is trying too hard with all the kids...it's almost like she thinks children love her but it's not natural...the other lady there is great and Sophia likes her and she gave her KinderMusik teacher a kiss(blown of course) week before last so she's definitely moving forward.

I guess I am shocked to see someone whose career is with children have such bad instincts with them.

Your BeanBean sounds like such a sweetheart...bless his heart!
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#197 of 426 Old 10-16-2004, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just started "Raising your Spirited Child" because I thought that it might give me some insight into ChibiChibi. Little did I know, I myself was a spirited child. So is BeanBean, so were all of my siblings, so is BeastieBeast (my younger niece). In fact, I can think of many children who fit the definition of "spirited." I thought you had to be bouncing off the walls, but apparently that's not the case. I find it very amusing to read, and completely unsurprising. I think that a better description of myself as a child would be found in "The Out-of-Sync Child" which is about sensory integration disorder. That, or a book about bipolar children, though I've yet to read one.

BeanBean's speech is rapidly losing it's baby talk aspect this week. He's using complete sentences more often, and enunciating more clearly than ever. I was listening to him talk this morning and wondering what happened to my baby. He's such a little man! Last night on our way to the IL's, we stopped at a cafe because BooBah needed to nurse. He was very sociable, talking to everyone there (it wasn't terribly crowded) and showing them his shoes. "I'm wearing new shoes. New shoes for a little boy!" Then he helped the waitres wipe down the tables. "Clean, clean, I like to clean tables. I'm a helpful guy!" He was just too cute for words. This morning, his grandmother saw him carry BooBah for the first time. I had nursed BeanBean and he heard an airplane so he popped off to talk about it. I asked if he would go look at the airplanes and the geese so I could nurse BooBah, and he got up and went to grandma and tried to pick her up. He said "BooBah needs to nurse. Nursie for BooBah?" I told MIL to let him carry her and she was just blown away when he brought her to me. It was only a few feet, but still most parents would never allow their two year old to carry the baby.

T My husband says I use too many smilies in my posts. I can't help it, they're so bright and colorful and fun! He thinks that they detract from what I'm saying, though. What do you think?

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#198 of 426 Old 10-16-2004, 04:34 PM
 
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Hey, Rynna,

I like your smilies

I use 'em a lot too sometimes, but not if I'm in a hurry or being lazy. I can't remember the codes, and don't bother looking them up. Some people use contextually inappropriate smilies, and *those* detract from the message, but when they are used well, they add to the message.

I have a book By Janice and Demitri Papolos called "The Bipolar Child" it is excellent.

I tend to think in terms of plotting my child's situation a point on a 3-dimensional grid.

"The Bipolar Child" gives me one "axis"
"The Explosive Child" by Christopher Greene is the other axis,
" Asperger's Syndrome" by Tony Attwood is the third one.

My child has not been diagnosed with any of these (I'm officially an Aspie, though)
but I find that they have all been very useful in helping me to understand and address some of her particular difficulties.

We're all gifted, but within our little micro-culture here I don't think her giftedness is what causes her frequent and excruciating distress.
It is certainly not what stresses *me* out until I try to deal with Other People!


I need to get "The out of synch child", and several others, but I've been focusing on dietry-intervention strategies lately. Wanted to see if those would help. (The verdict is not in yet)
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#199 of 426 Old 10-16-2004, 05:20 PM
 
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Wow, I gotta get my head out of my Buddhism books and into some of these. So many great books listed on this thread, and I have been meaning to read them. I haven't even read the spirited child one, which is like a bible around these forums LOL! I was afraid of losing my instincts, as that is what happened in dD's first year, I read all these books about infants, and they contradicted each other so tremendously, I had no idea if I was Arthur or Martha. So, now I want to read some things again, as i have faith in my abilities again - and form some new outlines and approaches.

Question - is identifying words before they can identify (linguistically) letters, the same as reading? DD identifies words, lots of them, but will have trouble identifying certain letters in the alphabet. Is it possible to have one without the other?

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#200 of 426 Old 10-17-2004, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Question - is identifying words before they can identify (linguistically) letters, the same as reading? DD identifies words, lots of them, but will have trouble identifying certain letters in the alphabet. Is it possible to have one without the other?
My MIL claims that BeanBean can read because he recognizes certain words; I think it's only true if the child can demonstrate comprehension.

I never would have been able to learn to read with the whole word method. I need the tiny details to make things make sense, I can't even begin to see the big picture without them. I've heard many people say that anyone can learn to read whole-word, that it's easier, but I'm here to tell you that that's not the case. I certainly don't sound out every word I read now; becoming a fluent reader means that you don't need to sound out every single word phonetically anymore, but I never would have become fluent without phonics.

One of my sisters sat down at the computer with my younger niece and discovered that she can spell and read just over 60 words. They asked her to spell "three" and she said "t-h like in 'the', r-e-e spells 'three'!" Amazing! She's a very interesting child. She can't type, though; she has the same problem with a keyboard that she does with a pencil-- sometimes she hits it too hard, sometimes not hard enough, and she's not really coordinated enough to hit one key at a time. She might learn that more quickly than she learns to hold a pencil, though.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#201 of 426 Old 10-17-2004, 02:24 PM
 
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Question - is identifying words before they can identify (linguistically) letters, the same as reading? DD identifies words, lots of them, but will have trouble identifying certain letters in the alphabet. Is it possible to have one without the other?
Everyone ends up a sight reader. Some of us start out that way, some -- I think about 1/3 -- need phonetic instruction and another third can go either way but benefit from some phonics instruction. I was a strong sight reader from about 3.5 but still managed to pick up most of the phonics rules before they were taught in school -- IIRC, first grade was look-say and formal phonics were taught the following two years.

DD is a sight reader, only recently out of the closet. When we encounter a new word, instead of sounding out all the letters and talking about rules, I help her break it down into syllables and, more often than not, she's seen each syllable somewhere else. This is pretty much how I remember going about meeting new words. About half the time she does this without my help. For whatever reason, words like 'stopped' never threw her with the extra consonant. Ditto for contractions. We'll cover some of the trickier phonics rules later only if she needs it. I'd rather spend our time studying roots and etymology.

There are two steps to learning to read: decoding and then decoding with automaticity and understanding. I think even early sight readers go through a period where they're working so hard reading each word the meaning of the passage is lost on them. I don't know at what point a child would actually be "reading" but I don't think it matters because it's all part of the process. We waited until DD was ready to tell us she was reading because we didn't want to impose any pressure. Before that, when people asked we'd say that she "recognizes some words."
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#202 of 426 Old 10-21-2004, 11:09 AM
 
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I want to go back to the bragging issue....

Is there anyway to NOT sound like bragging...I mean I am not a bragger...I do like to tell my friends what Sophia is doing but I am more likely to downplay it than brag about it. She brought me the letter S yesterday and said "S", then she brought me "O" and said O...it's a game for her...she brings me them, I tell her what they are and she puts them back...then several days, weeks later she tells me what they are...I think she knows more but can't say them yet.

Is that a brag? She's 15.5 mos old. It's gospel, truth, no exxageration...I am so proud!

Whenever I tell people irl things like that I get a look as though I am lying or that if I am not then I really shouldn't say them because it makes them feel bad or theymake comments about me "working with her"

Hubby is funny...he's like "shes my first baby and hell yeah i am gonna brag"

wish i was like that

just talking here..toh...need to vent...get advice...how do you deal?
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#203 of 426 Old 10-21-2004, 04:31 PM
 
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I think we can get away with a lot with "parent's pride". Many parents I know, including those of grown children, talk positively about their children, and update you on their achievements. I myself never thought of it as bragging before I had a child. Then there are the parents of babies, who are always talking about their new gift, and most people are either bored by it or delighted, but never offended.

So with my toddler, she is obviously gifted, so strangers often comment and I'll agree, "oh yes, she amazes me all the time" and if they ask me questions I answer them. With friends, we often compare notes, (as you do when you get together as parents) and I speak of DD with such pride and love that perhaps it is bragging, but it has never been brought to my attention.

It is sad though, that a parent can complain and whine about their child, or talk about how they haven't done such and such, but if you are positive, and also talk about what they have done, you're bragging. Not a good outlook for children in general, is it?

Like you guys, my DH is the brag-meister. Well, not so much now, but boy, he was pretty bad there for a while. When Dd was about one, he would go to work and take a LIST of all the words she could say. And in general conversation he could be heard saying, "she can say 124 words now." *cringe* Thank goodness that wore off! But even then, at braggings worst, people just seemed really pleased he was so happy, "oh, you're such a proud daddy!" kinda thing.

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#204 of 426 Old 10-22-2004, 10:25 AM
 
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with all the talk about bragging I often think about my cousin...everyone in the family speaks about her "bragging" about her kids...since reading this thread I have been wondering if we haven't been unfair but the more I think about it the more I think she does "brag" To be more specific she goes on and on and on about her children and their lives.

Her children are bright and well adjusted kids but not gifted intellectually and she has never said they are...in her case the reason I consider it bragging is she never lets you say anything about your children...we both have 10 year old daughters and I have attempted to say something about my daughter's achievements and she will interrupt in mid-sentence to say something about her child.

To her credit I don't think she has any idea she does this and is actually a wonderful person, just so caught up in how wonderful her children are she forgets to listen to how wonderful yours are. It's not a my kid is better than your kid kinda thing, it's just, well, talk....Parent's pride is a much nicer word.

For now I think I will just let things go and respond as you do calm "she amazes us all the time" absolutely true anyway!

We are off to playgroup...she loves it there and it's really helping her with her shyness...she still hangs her head and plays with her fingers if an adult talks to her that she doesn't recognise but the kids and adults she has seen a few times she is really opening up to.

Calm...I had to laugh when I read the "she can say 124 words now"...my husband told someone the other day "she says at least 60 words now" but it was to his parents so...they get here on Sunday and I think they will enjoy her lots! I sure do!

Cheers
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#205 of 426 Old 10-22-2004, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Her children are bright and well adjusted kids but not gifted intellectually and she has never said they are...in her case the reason I consider it bragging is she never lets you say anything about your children...we both have 10 year old daughters and I have attempted to say something about my daughter's achievements and she will interrupt in mid-sentence to say something about her child.
This sounds like my mother. It's really interesting that she's willing to go on and on about her children now, and to compare and contrast them with her grandchildren. I don't think it has anything to do with her children (us) though, or her grandchildren. It's all about parenting. When my mother says "your speech was much clearer than BeanBean's at that age" or "your brother was actually reading at his age" she's not making a comment about the kids; she's actually saying "I was a better parent than you are, I know because my kids were smarter than your kids." It's really messed up when you think about it, she' talking about her own grandchildren, but she needs to believe that she was a better parent than she was. It's pretty easy to understand, really: my mother has five children, and only one of them is what most people would call "sucessful" and that's because he's the only one of us with a father who could pay for him to go to school.

The rest of her children are, by most standards, dismal failures. One is 22 years old and has seven and four year old children; though she certainly qualifies as profoundly gifted, she didn't finish high school until she was 20 years old. My brother is in the military. He got a girl pregnant, married her and divorced her, and now has a son who's life is so overwhelmingly stressful (his mother is a real piece of work ) that at the age of three he doesn't speak a word which anyone aside from his stepmother could understand. Yes, I said stepmother; my brother is married again and expecting his second child in December. He's also profoundly gifted, but has managed to make some grand mistakes along his way. You'd have to meet his ex to know what I mean.

I have another sister who...well, her life is sincerely a mess, I don't think I could keep that to a paragraph or less. And then there's me: 27 years old, two children and I have never held a job that paid more than $5.75/hour. I graduted from high school at the end of the summer after my senior year with a perfect "C" average. I did not manage to finish college (none of us have; my youngest sister has never even started, though I think she's planning to take a community college class in January), and since a college diploma is the only way anyone will see "earning potential" these days, I'm pretty much screwed when it comes to the job market.

Putting it all into perspective, it's easy to see why my mother says the things she does: she has to prove to herself that she was better than someone as a parent, and she can at least tell herself that she's a better parent than any of her children. It's not something *I* would be proud of, but it works for her even though it's not strictly true. While none of her grandchildren appears to be as profoundly gifted as three of her five children do, they are certainly not slow in any sense of the word. Even if they *were* slow, it wouldn't say anything about how they are being raised (except for my poor nephew ).

BeanBean is a much happier child than I was at two. He has two parents and he knows that both of his parents love him. He looks forward to seeing us when we're gone, he's always happy to see us when we get back. He's confident and secure around all kinds of people, which none of us were. Socially, he is leaps and bounds ahead of any of us. It's not like he's slow or even average intellectually, but that's totally not the point: in all the things which are obviously influenced by nurture BeanBean is far ahead of any of my mother's children. I don't sit and rub it in my mother's face, though, I merely bring it up when she starts in about how I could read a newspaper and speak in complete sentences, or how I learned to use the potty over about three days when I was 14 months old and it was so easy because I could talk like a person then, too.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#206 of 426 Old 10-22-2004, 01:32 PM
 
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LOL! BritishMum, you could be describing MY DH! It used to drive me nuts how bad his time management was/is (it has gotten a bit better). We'd have a movie we wanted to get to in 45 minutes which was a 15 minute drive and he'd say: "Let's go by the liquor store and pick up some wine, then I want to go to the Co-op and pick up some stuff for dinner, and I want to show you this cool house on the other side of town. Then we'll go to the movie." And I'd have to litterally explain, "Honey, the movie starts in 45 minutes, it takes 15 minutes to get there, so we have 30 minutes before we leave. The liquor store errand would take at least 15-20 minutes, the Co-Op would take another 15 at least, and that house is the opposite direction, so it would take half an hour at least. Plus, neither of us is dressed yet and your car is parked 10 blocks away, so really we need to get dressed and leave for the movie NOW!" I know it sounds like I'm talking to a 3 year old, but he really didn't understand how time worked - luckily after a few years of this, he's gotten much better. And don't get me started on his money skills! I handle all of that - he's written about four checks since we got married 3.5 years ago...

As he was growing up, his parents let a lot of things slide, because he is so smart and so good-looking and they felt so blessed to have gotten to adopt him. Its sad, because he doesn't have the skills to function in the adult world. He also doesn't understand the concept of being considerate of other people - he is so completely the center of his parents world he often doesn't realize that other people have feelings, too. Again, that's something we're working on... I've vowed to myself to raise my kids with a focus on loving other people and showing them love.

I think that with very gifted kids especially, you need to spend extra time on basic time and money management skills. Most of the geniuses I know CAN'T balance a checkbook or make it to an appointment on time.

Mama to DS (05/04) and DD (11/05), married to a wonderful DH.
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#207 of 426 Old 10-22-2004, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, eilonwy, what a story! Do you think that your siblings wuold have turned out differently - or more 'successful' according to society's norms - if they had not been gifted? Was giftedness part of the issue that led to poor functioning, or was it more the parenting/nurture?
Oh, it all goes together. :LOL I've been put up with because I'm brilliant, too; many times. In fact, it's why the school district went so far to accomodate me. My test scores were so freaking amazing that they had to keep me because I made the school I was in look good. They were always so disappointed when I didn't do well in a class, but I actually had a few teachers who would eliminate the homework portion of my grade just because it made the averages look better. :LOL It's so totally wrong!

Time management-- my brother inherited that gene from our father (OCD); the rest of us grew up with my mother, who inherited an inability to be punctual from her father. My mother says that when someone wanted her father to show up for a dinner at 8pm, they would tell him that it was a lunch at 2pm. They'd end up leaving around 4:30pm, get where they needed to be by 7:45 and people would be getting ready to sit down when they arrived. When my mother was in 8th grade, a caption under her picture read "I'm not late, the bell rang early." It's always been her motto.

I detest lateness, as it reminds me of everything I couldn't control as a child. Thus, I am only late for appointments if, for some reason, my mother is involved. Mike is often late, but we sat down and talked about it and now I lie to him about when I need to be places so it's all good. :LOL

I don't think that being gifted is the primary reason for our lack of success, I really think it's a combination of things. Our lives have never been easy; my mother was a single parent of four on welfare from the time I was four years old. I was the oldest child, and thus the second parent. When I tell people that the first time I was left home alone to watch my siblings I was four years old, most of the time they're horrified and can't imagine why any parent would be so irresponsible. They don't understand that I was more than capable of doing all the things a 14 year old babysitter could, and then some.

Single parents especially tend to rely on oldest children, and as a profoundly gifted child I got a lot more of that than other kids. My mother expected me to behave like a small adult, and to parent and police my siblings, and all sorts of other things which people are horrified to think of a four year old doing. I resented it, but always felt like it was my duty. In retrospect, this had a lot to do with guilt; my mother would tell me what a horrible person I was and how ungreatful and miserable a human being I was, and that if I didn't do x,y,z, someone was sure to call CYS and they'd put us all in foster care, did I want that, I'd never see my siblings again.... She'd go on and on like that, for hours in the middle of the night. She was horribly depressed a lot of the time, and of course that was all my fault because I'd ruined her life just by being born and I was making it worse every day that I didn't clean my room or do the dishes or whatever.

My mother thought that because I was so profoundly gifted that I didn't need to ever be given the freedoms which children are generally given. I was never asked to play quietly in my room, I was asked to watch my siblings. I did my own laundry from the time I was 8 years old (tall enough to reach) and my sibling's laundry, too. It wasn't because I wanted to, it was because if I didn't do it it wouldn't get done. My entire childhood was like that-- my mother just expecting perfection of me, and if she didn't get it then I'd get a lecture about how horrible I was and what a spoiled brat I was and why couldn't I just handle the responsibilities, they weren't much. WHATEVER!

My sibling's issues are all slightly different-- the youngest was permitted to be immature, because it was my job to look after her anyway. (Seriously!) When she was 12, she begged for a baby-- she wanted mom to have another, or to adopt a child. She begged for two years, and then she decided to take matters into her own hands and got pregnant at the age of fourteen. (This, btw, was entirely my fault: first, for not getting pregnant myself in high school. Second, for actually studying for an Organic Chemistry exam instead of babysitting my 14 year old sister and third, for taking a sleeping pill and going to bed at 8 pm because I had to get up at 5:30am; I was supposed to stay awake so that I would know if my sister had brought anyone into the house. )

To put my sister into perspective-- she missed a grand total of three days of school when Chibi was born. She took all of her final exams, and recieved an award for having the highest grade in, of all things, Latin in the entire school district just two weeks after Chibi's birth.

Being gifted definately plays a role in my poor work skills, for the reasons you ladies have already mentioned: my work was always finished in a small fraction of the time, with a small fraction of the effort of others. This is the reason that I'm doing The Well-Trained Mind with the kids, and one of my main reasons for homeschooling-- if I keep them challenged, they will always have to work and always have something to do. If they finish page one in two minutes, they'll just be able to keep going without waiting an hour for the rest of the class, kwim? I want my children to learn how to work through an intellectual challenge, which is something that I didn't learn because everything came so easy to me. The first time I encountered new material I was 16 and I was shocked; it's not so much that I thought I knew everything, but for the first time in my life I was forced to apply a little bit of effort, I couldn't just coast. I still did very well, and I can't say I worked hard (that didn't come until much later!) but I did have to do more than show up, I had to actually open my book and do some reading. : I had no discipline, so sitting down and reading from a textbook was a real challenge for me.

I want my children to be spared that, and I also want them to be safe from the idea that they are worthless if they don't have perfect scores on everything. That's why I believe in very minimal testing; I don't want my kid to think that if they don't have a 100% on everything that they're stupid. I want them to learn, and to work, and to be able to do any job that they find interesting without the limitations of a high school diploma.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#208 of 426 Old 10-22-2004, 11:54 PM
 
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Well, Rynna, all I can say is that you've done an amazing job of figuring this stuff out and becoming a great parent. Talk about making lemons into lemonade - kudos to you!

On a different note, one thing I'm enjoying about this thread is it makes me feel rather...oh, I dunno...average!
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#209 of 426 Old 10-23-2004, 12:46 AM
 
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I even found myself wondering a couple of times if dd was 'behind' in any way when I read about what some of these kids are doing.
Yep!! LOL...

BTW, I'm British too. Grew up in Worthing, on the Costa Geriatrica, been here since 1990, married to a Yankee! How about you?
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#210 of 426 Old 10-23-2004, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I can't say that I feel average, but I do feel much more normal.

When I was 5 and my brother was 4, my mother sat us down in the kitchen and gave us a long talk. One of the things she said was "I know that you think that you're smarter than all the kids in your schools and all of your teachers, and the fact is that you're right; you are more intelligent than anyone [outside of the family] that you've ever met. That doesn't make you any better than anyone else. There are kids out there who are just as smart as you are, and even a few who are smarter, but you guys just haven't been around long enough to meet them because they are few and far between. If you decide to wait until you meet a kid as smart as you are to make friends, you're going to have a very lonely childhood."

To that I say: thank goodness for the internet! :LOL

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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Refbacks are Off