Mothering Forum banner

Gifted in the Arts

4K views 61 replies 18 participants last post by  dessismama 
#1 ·
I know other people have expressed the desire to have the Arts (by "art", I mean fine arts, music and dance) included in the sticky, but I thought perhaps a good start would be a thread in this forum dedicated to the Arts in particular. This might be against the UA, or against the sticky, or against something, or horribly offensive to someone, but I am willing to throw caution to the wind here.

When I came back and found a forum set up for G&T, I was happy to see it but a little surprised that it did not include any of the arts. I suppose I can understand why, given our history here at MDC with this topic. I have heard the arguements that art is subjective, a quality that cannot be tested and measured with a number placed on a bell curve. My intent here is NOT to start a billion page thread/arguement about being gifted in the arts. It would be nice to be able to show the MDC community and admins that this is a valid issue in need of support and discussion in this forum.

Ahem. Both Dh and I come from families with strong musical talent and fine art ability, but I don't think either of my kids are gifted in the arts. Certainly, neither of my kids are on the level of some brilliant young artists I have seen.

Well then, I leave this to the experts; the artists, those with art inclined children, and those who support them
 
See less See more
1
#30 ·
meemee-- What I'm saying is, with something like medical school one does not need to specialize as early as 6th or 7th grade, particularly if they have an apptitude for science anyway. There's no need to do anything but get a bachelor's degree and do well in your undergraduate field of study. You're going to have to do all the specialization work again anyway, in medical school.
I can't imagine telling my child, "You have to quit band if you want to get into law school now that you're in seventh grade!" That's ridiculous.
There are loads and loads of 12 year olds who have no idea what they want to be when they grow up-- most, thanks to public schooling, have no idea who they are at that point (having never had time to explore thier own interests), let alone who they're going to be.

Maybe I'm just horrified because the idea of planning my child's life to that extent is antithetical to my parenting philosophy, but ICK.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Are you guys familiar with the Myers-Briggs personality types? I read a book based on this theory, "Please Understand Me" by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates, where they said the sensory-perceptual types which were most likely to become artists and musicians were (if combined with "thinking" and I think "introversion") also supposed to be awesome surgeons. It's interesting to hear about real-life artistic types who are also interested in the human body and science ... it kind of reinforces my idea that intelligence is a much bigger picture than we realize.
Yeah, that's the one I "failed."
 
#31 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
Yeah, that's the one I "failed."

eilonwy, how do you "fail" a personality test? Do you mean you don't like your personality -- or were the test results inaccurate?
 
#32 ·
I scored XNFX, meaning that the differences between E/I and P/J were indeterminable; I came out 50% extroverted, 50% introverted, 50% perceptive and 50% judgemental. It's a lot more fun to say I failed a personality test, though, so I do as often as possible.


I don't think that my personality is a failure, I just think that the test wasn't sensitive enough to really understand me, which is ironic considering that the book was called "Please Understand Me."
 
#33 ·
m_m - i was raised in asia. we were exposed a lot to the then USSR culture, esp. literature. their books were good and cheap - as well as records. anyways even as a little girl i remember one thing that stood out - which was so different than where i was raised - was that how big a role arts played in their life. the main thing i remember were their top physicists were also their most famous poets. i must have been what 10 and i remember thinking while i was thumbing thru this magazine - why cant a person be good in math and an poetry which i was seeing there in the USSR. whereas my edu system would only focus on what subject to take to build a good career - and do nothing really for ur soul - for what motivates you. every child took some sort of art or dance or music class when they were young but had given it up by the time 6th or 7th grade rolled along.

i remember crying in 8th grade when a teacher with my parents made the decision to remove art completely from my life as i would not be able to make good money going into any field of art. the fact that out of 120 students i had always topped the class in art did not even factor in their decision. and yet had i gone into music and dance as i wanted to - i would be minting money here rather than living paycheck to paycheck.

eilonwy - thankfully my dd is just 4. and i will know enough by then. but yes that was totally my reaction when i heard a mom say her son had to give up band at 8th grade because it required too much time. he stayed in music and did some band stuff - but not as much as he wanted. having personally not lived with the arts adn science balance in my life - i too was horrified that one would have to make that kind of decision at that early of an age.

apparently some kind of specialization needs to happen at 6th grade. i am the type of person who finally - only after i started my spiritual journey - do i have a little clue as to what i want to do with my life at age 41. a clue nothing definte yet. so to imagine having a clue at 12 - 14 was shocking to me. and yet i swear my dd was a determined little person right from when she was in my tummy. and she has always known her mind. always. always knew what she wanted. v. determined - wont give up till seh gets it. so i am hoping she keeps that feeling and knows what she wants out of life whilst during school age. of course its ok if she doesnt.

i am curious to see what she grows up to be. from when she was 2 she showed her passion in the human body. actually as an infant she was fascinated by the body and learnt all her body parts within a couple of months. today her interest has moved to diseases and how that affects the body. when she was around 3 she has stuck to she wants to be a doctor - for children. she started dancing when she was 11 months old before she could walk and that has stayed with her. it would be so fascinating for me to see how these two of her passions evolve over time. i am soo soo thrilled about the dancing and the fact that she is coordinated. i love to dance, really love to dance and yet i have two left feet.
 
#34 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
I scored XNFX, meaning that the differences between E/I and P/J were indeterminable; I came out 50% extroverted, 50% introverted, 50% perceptive and 50% judgemental. It's a lot more fun to say I failed a personality test, though, so I do as often as possible.


I don't think that my personality is a failure, I just think that the test wasn't sensitive enough to really understand me, which is ironic considering that the book was called "Please Understand Me."

Wow, eilonwy, I'm an "NF" too! Years ago I took the test and came out 50% introverted, 50% extraverted -- now I lean more towards extraversion but I'm still fairly close to the middle. I definitely lean more towards being perceptive. I don't exactly fit any of the profiles (who does?), but ENFP seems closest to describing me.

According to the book, the most differentiating preference is whether you're sensory or intuitive, then sensory people are further differentiated by whether they're more percetive or judging -- and intuitives by whether we're more thinking or feeling. I identified a lot more with the much broader description of intuitive-feeling people (comparing us to Apollo) than I did with the specific description of ENFP's.
 
#35 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
. It's a lot more fun to say I failed a personality test, though, so I do as often as possible.


That's hilarious! I scored INTJ, but close on I/E and J / P. I actually think that I might have blown a few questions that might have given more significant results......but that's probably because I'm kind of quirky in general.

I found an interesting site that has some good info. on introverted children. There's such a big push for young children to be "overly social" and "non-territorial." Extroverts can have a difficult time understanding introverts, and I think it must even be more difficult to understand introverted children.

http://www.theintrovertzcoach.com/box.html
 
#36 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
According to the book, the most differentiating preference is whether you're sensory or intuitive, then sensory people are further differentiated by whether they're more percetive or judging -- and intuitives by whether we're more thinking or feeling. I identified a lot more with the much broader description of intuitive-feeling people (comparing us to Apollo) than I did with the specific description of ENFP's.
All of my scores were very close, though; I think that the N was by 58% and the F by 54%.
I guess I'm just difficult to "get."
 
#38 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristaN View Post
Dh's MB came out with a bunch of very balanced scores as well. Mine were wildly divergent. I guess I have a strong personality, but dh has been using that to argue that he is balanced and I am unbalanced
.

Funny, I've heard exactly the opposite-- that my scores were so balanced because I fluctuated so wildly.
The phrase "dynamic stillness" applies, I think.
:
 
#39 ·
meemee, I just read your post about having to give up art during your growning up years. I'm so sorry your gifts weren't respected and no room was made for them. I hope you won't give up on finding a creative outlet now and nurturing your gifts. Your daughter's very blessed to have such a loving, understanding mom.
 
#40 ·
meemee,

Quote:
A recent Rockefeller Foundation Study found that music majors have the highest rate of admittance to medical schools, followed by biochemistry and the humanities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_lessons (and a hundred other sites on the Internet - the admittance rate is apparently around 66% for music majors)

I'd say your friend with the sixth grader is a little confused, much to the detriment of her son's interests, both short- and long-term. You don't have to pick, esp in 6th grade.
 
#41 ·
"Preparing for college" is seriously overrated. Instead of worrying about preparing your child for a series of artificial steps, why not consider "preparing" your child to live in the real world by actually exposing her to it? You might be interested in Guerrilla Learning: How to give your kids a real education, with or without school. Even if you can't homeschool forever, there's no need to buy into the entire school paradigm of "preparing" for real life. (Sorry, that's a bit of a button for me.
)
 
#42 ·
I was afraid to admit it before because I didn't want to sound like a bragging parent, but now that it has been confirmed...

My daughter is artisitically talented. She is in Kindergarten and was recently tested (her drawing, pre-writing skills).

Her drawings have always been very detailed and complex. her teacher was WOWED (her words) by them. Kindergarteners on average score a 2 on this particular test and Kailey scred a 4+.

It's difficult at times because she is also a perfectionist. We have many drawings that have been ditched because of imperfection (and she insists on drawing in pen).

Right now she is drawing animals and has started drawing profiles of these animals with all four legs showing. She draw the two opposite legs just showing. It's amazing.

She isn't a physically active child, although loved and did well (caught on easily) in ballet. I would like to nurture her love of drawing with some classes, but don't know what to look. We do not have anything close, but I would be more than happy to travel a distance on the weekends. Any ideas?
 
#43 ·
LOL eilonwy - i am hte last person even thinking about college for my dd. its more of the what ifs nature where i used the college as an example. lord i dont even care if my dd doesnt go to college. she can do whatever brings her joy. when i do have the option of saving... i will send her hopefully when she is 18 on a travel around the world trip with all expenses paid. nothing can prepare her for anything better than that - imho. esp. since she really enjoys travelling too.

i totally dont believe school prepares for real life. it does quite the opposite. but yes when she does go to school if she does i will have to start 'working' on real life stuff. and one of them is just letting children play. whether they are 4 or 14 just free play doing whatever they want to.

but it would be fascinating to see how my dd turns out because of her tenacity.

m_m - htank u. i am dipping my hands into many things to see what i like.

potty diva : maybe talk to ur dd's K teacher to see if she has any idea of where to look for art teachers. also talk to museums. any place that has a art activity table at any public event ask them for art teachers. talk to teh librarian for art teachers. and then look for the teacher who is good with children. who understands and encourages children rather than being a drill sargent.
 
#44 ·
Eilonwy, that book sounds interesting.

It amazes me that kids around the age of my oldest (six) are so INTO the real world ... they talk and talk about all the things they want to make and do -- and yet by young adulthood, so many kids have lost touch with real life and often have no goal. My six-year-old is so in tune with the financial realities of life (I guess thanks to the fact that we're often short money -- though we always have what we need; since we're never away from our kids, she tends to hear part or all of our financial discussions), and she's always coming up with ideas for earning more money. She helps dh with our worm business, and also with gardening. She watches him posting stuff on e-bay (either stuff he finds somewhere -- legally of course -- or stuff he doesn't need as much as we need cash), and boxing it up, taking it to the post office, and using the money for food. She often goes along to post-office and store, so I think the connetion is pretty real to her.

The cool thing about homeschooling is, as she grows and gets ideas of things she'd like to try out -- apprenticeships, volunteer jobs, or home-based businesses -- she'll actually have enough hours in the day to pursue these experiences. In contrast, I had all kinds of ideas when I was young but was always told the way to making my dreams a reality was to "do well in school." Adults said, "Your job right now is school," as though there was really some connection between the classroom and the real world.
 
#45 ·
That is amazing Teresa!


I always longed to be an artist of any sort. I wish my parents had placed such value on it as so many of the parents here obviously do.

I had no idea there was a test for artistic ability. What is it? Can you please tell me more about it?

.
 
#46 ·
You edited!

A savant is an "idiot genius" - think Rainman.

She only quickly went over the testing structure, so I'll have to look it up or ask her again. There were letters involved (I was teary and so amazed at how well she is doing in school) that I didn't focus on the testing structure as much as her overall progress. Sorry.

The test wasn't only about artisitc ability but her ability to follow directions (keeping her drawing in the pre-drawn box, writing ability (they are learning to write by using beginning, middle, and ending sounds) then writing them as she hears them (her own story, written in her own letters). She was graded on her ability to write the sounds she hears herself say in the word she wants to write, and in usig spaces to distinguish between words in a sentence.
 
#48 ·
...for those with musically gifted children. The other day I saw a long series of numbers written in one of my son's (13yo) school notebooks. The letters were messy and curved all around the page. I was curious and asked him what it was. He told me that it is his Bach Sonata - the one he is learning on the violin at the moment. He was bored in class and was thinking about playing Bach and jotted this down. Then he tried to explain that he memorizes music as a string of numbers (not finger numbers like in Suzuki). He can still remember and play music he learned 7 years ago, so this must work for him. Have any of you ever seen/heard this before? I am fascinated. It makes no sense to me.
 
#49 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Profmom View Post
...for those with musically gifted children. The other day I saw a long series of numbers written in one of my son's (13yo) school notebooks. The letters were messy and curved all around the page. I was curious and asked him what it was. He told me that it is his Bach Sonata - the one he is learning on the violin at the moment. He was bored in class and was thinking about playing Bach and jotted this down. Then he tried to explain that he memorizes music as a string of numbers (not finger numbers like in Suzuki). He can still remember and play music he learned 7 years ago, so this must work for him. Have any of you ever seen/heard this before? I am fascinated. It makes no sense to me.
I used to do that!! Wow... I wonder if he uses the same notation that I did. Mine was almost (but not exactly) based on the octave system, but it was more of a hexadecimal notation. It was weird. Yeesh, I can still remember strings of numbers.
I've never heard of anyone else doing it, but when I was taking calculus and I learned about [mathematical] harmonic progressions, it kicked into place for me.


It's fascinating, though; the people that I have known who were truly gifted in music (as opposed to highly skilled and/or proficient) have all been mathematically gifted as well. I've only met a handful of mathematically gifted people who were not also musically gifted. Very cool stuff.
 
#50 ·
The music-numbers connection is really interesting to me. My musically-inclined toddler really LOVES to count stuff, so I guess we'll see how it all manifests itself as she grows.
 
#51 ·
My 7 yo son started playing the cello (Suzuki) at 3.5. By 5 he could read notes, and joined a prep orchestra. At 6 he joined a chamber string orchestra for upper elementary/middle school students. At 7 he played in a trio competition and advanced to the state level. He continues to play in the chamber orchestra, and his teacher is supplementing him with position pieces, scales and arpeggios, and some chamber music. He just finished book 4 of the Suzuki (out of 10 total) and he plays the 2 minuets from the 1st cello suite now. What is amazing to me is his deep understanding of phrase in music and structure and ideas!! He also recongnizes classical pieces by period and composer. He tells me he knows what various pieces are all about... he self corrects. He loves to play and hates to practice... He makes the cello look like an easy instrument.

Both DH and I took music lessons as children and know some music theory, but our child is something else. We are both mathematicians by training...

Now we live in a small town, so what do we do if he actually decides to make music his career?
 
#52 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by dessismama View Post
My 7 yo son started playing the cello (Suzuki) at 3.5. By 5 he could read notes, and joined a prep orchestra. At 6 he joined a chamber string orchestra for upper elementary/middle school students. At 7 he played in a trio competition and advanced to the state level. He continues to play in the chamber orchestra, and his teacher is supplementing him with position pieces, scales and arpeggios, and some chamber music. He just finished book 4 of the Suzuki (out of 10 total) and he plays the 2 minuets from the 1st cello suite now. What is amazing to me is his deep understanding of phrase in music and structure and ideas!! He also recongnizes classical pieces by period and composer. He tells me he knows what various pieces are all about... he self corrects. He loves to play and hates to practice... He makes the cello look like an easy instrument.
Your son is my son's hero! My ds has been begging for violin lessons for about 9 months now. His Grandie is getting him a violin for Christmas and I just signed him up for lessons starting in Jan. this afternoon. I took him to a music store with an extensive orchestral section for the first time last weekend. I've honestly never seen him happier or more excited -- not in a toy store, at an amusement park or anywhere else. It completely blew my mind.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top