Ped switched to combos in the middle of my schedule- help? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 10 Old 02-18-2010, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just a little backround here, My daughter Ryleigh will be 4 next month, my son Josh is 17 months, and I'm due with another in May.

With my first child, she was given Hep B in the hospital w/o my consent or knowledge (found out at 2 month check) and at 2 mos we did Hib and Prevnar but I deferred the rest until I could research more.
I did no more vaxing until 15 months. At which point I did a Hib, and decided to get caught up with most things starting at 2yrs and ending at kindergarten.

How the vax schedule ended up working out that way, it was VERY traumatic for my daughter. She was old enough to recognize and anticipate the docs office as the place where she got shots. It was horrible. We had to hold her down for shots, and even when I was just taking her brother in for checkups, she would scream and cry thinking she would get a shot.

So with her brother, I did Hib and Prevnar on schedule, and then started catching up at 1 yr (hoping to be done by 2 until the K boosters)

Well, now my daughter is almost caught up, and my son was on his way to being caught up, and my Ped has switched to Pentacel (Polio, DTaP, Hib) or Pediarix (Polio, DTaP, Hep B) instead of individual Polio.

My son has had no doses of polio, and my daughter has had 1. My son has had 2 doses of DTaP, my daughter has had 3. My daughter only needs 2 more doses of Hep B but my son needs all 3.
Now I have to try to figure out how to incorporate these combo vaxes into their schedule, making sure they get enough of all of them but not too terribly many of another.


Here is what each of them has had so far:

Ryleigh (age 4 next month)

Hib- completed by 1 dose at 15 mos

Hep B- Birth, (needs 2 more doses)

MMR- 3yrs, (needs 1 more by K)

DTaP- 2yrs, 2.5yrs, 3yrs, (only needs 1 more dose because 4th dose given at age 4 or older)

Polio- 3.5yrs, (only needs 2 more if 3rd dose given at 4 or older)

Varicella- none yet, needs 2 doses by K


Joshua 17 months
Prevnar- completed on schedule

Hib- completed on schedule

Hep B- none yet, needs 3 by K

DTaP- 1yr, 15mos, (needs 3 more, OR 2 more if 4th dose given at age 4)

Polio- none yet, (only needs 3 doses if 3rd given at age 4

MMR- none yet, needs 2 by K

Varicella- none yet, needs 2 by K


I have it figured out so that I can give Pediarix, 2 doses for my daughter, and 3 doses for my son, and have them caught up with less injections if they were all separate, even if it does mean giving a 5th dose of DTaP that could have been avoided (he'd only need 2 DTaPs, but he'd need 3 Pediarix to complete both the polio and Hep B) But I guess most kids get 5 doses of DTaP, anyway.

Here is the schedules I have worked out. I have gone over and over this, and I want someone to "double check" it, or maybe come up with a better plan than I have. My main concerns are that I don't want to give Pediarix with any vaccines that it normally wouldn't be given in conjunction with, and that I avoid as many shots as possible between that 2-4 yr age group for my son.

I used to want to avoid vaccines at all, but now after working in Peds for the past 2 yrs, and after doing tons more unbiased research, I've decided most of the diseases are worse than side effects. That's just my personal opinion, not looking for argument there. I do still feel uncomfortable giving unnecessary shots under age 1, but after that age I feel fine giving them shots, and wanting to do it without causing too much trauma for a kid who can "see it coming" and remember it.
The only thing with this schedule, is I don't know if Pediarix is "approved" for being used this way. For instance, even though normally there is the "4 after age 4" and "3 after age 4" rules for DTaP and polio, does this still apply to Pediarix? And is Pediarix even approved as the last or "booster" dose of Polio and DTaP? If that makes sense as a concern at all...


Ok, here's my plan, input welcome. THANKS! Itallic indicates dose already given, bolded indicated dose planned/still needed. And just for kicks is what I plan for this next baby, using the pentacel combo that my ped has, input welcome on that as well.

Ryleigh

Hib- completed by 1 dose at 15 mos

Hep B- Birth, pediarix, pediarix

MMR- 3yrs, 5yrs

DTaP- 2yrs, 2.5yrs, 3yrs, pediarix (4th after 4)

Polio- 3.5yrs, pediarix, pediarix (3rd after 4)

Varicella- 4yrs, 5 yrs

Pediarix- 1st dose: 4 ¼th yrs, 2nd dose: 4.5yrs



Joshua

Prevnar- completed on schedule

Hib- completed on schedule

Hep B- Pediarix, Pediarix, Pediarix

DTaP- 1yr, 15mos, Pediarix, Pediarix, Pediarix

Polio- Pediarix, Pediarix, Pediarix (3rd dose after 4yrs)

MMR- 18 mos, 5 yrs

Varicella- 4 yrs, 5yrs

Pediarix- 1st dose: 20mos, 2nd dose: 3yrs, 3rd dose: 4yrs


New Baby

No Hep B birth dose.

Rotavirus ?? (ugh, still very undecided, my Ped carries RotaTeq)

Pentacel- 2 mos, 4mos, 6mos, 15 mos

Prevnar- 2mos, 4mos, 6mos, 12mos

MMR- 18 mos, 4-6yrs

Varicella- 18 mos, 4-6 yrs

monovalent Hep B- 18 mos, 3 yrs, 4-6yrs

5th DTaP (booster necessary after Pentacel series)- Daptacel 4-6 yrs


Sorry this was so long, I wanted to be thorough. Much appreciation in advance to anyone who sees any holes in this, or even if you just think you'd do the same thing in my situation, I'd love to hear that too.
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#2 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 12:56 PM
 
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I wanted to ask you what you saw working in Peds that made you change your mind, or decide that the risks of the vaccines were less than the risks of the diseases. I am really curious as to what you witnessed (certain diseases in kids??) and am not interested in starting an argument at all. I don't vax at the moment, but am always researching and praying about this. It just piqued my curiosity that you were anti vax and then after working in peds for 2 years, you are now pro vax. thanks!

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#3 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 01:01 PM
 
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oh, sorry...I don't really have an opinion on your vax schedule since we don't vax...at the moment, I am not comfortable with any of the vaxes! I believe in the theory of vaccines, I would LOVE my kids to be protected from every disease out there, but I worry about short term and long term side effects from most vaccines. I wish vaccines were "greener" and safer, because I would definitely get them. I am only now learning not to get all upset when my kids get sick (the oldest is 17!!!) and to learn to trust in their immune systems, to boost their immune systems and to realize that when they get sick it actually strengthens their immune system. (not talking meningitis here...that one still scares me, but they try to prevent it and others move in...so not convinced on those vaccines either, unfortunately) *sigh*

I do respect your decision, though! We, as Mommies, have to research and then decide the best thing for our children and our families and I don't pretend that my stance couldn't change (like yours did). I just keep praying and researching and praying some more!!

Stacey
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#4 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 01:02 PM
 
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nak


Couldn't you just ask your ped to order what you need to keep going on the schedule you had? Or visit another Dr./office who has what you need, for a "shot only" visit?

Homeschooling mama of four fantastic kids and wife to one great guy.
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#5 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by stacey05 View Post
I wanted to ask you what you saw working in Peds that made you change your mind, or decide that the risks of the vaccines were less than the risks of the diseases. I am really curious as to what you witnessed (certain diseases in kids??) and am not interested in starting an argument at all. I don't vax at the moment, but am always researching and praying about this. It just piqued my curiosity that you were anti vax and then after working in peds for 2 years, you are now pro vax. thanks!

Stacey
It's ok, I totally respect the decision not to vax. Like I said, I was that way for a few yrs myself. And I know that most non-vaxing parents put a ton of time and research into their decisions.

The only diseases I actually have seen myself have been pertussis and chickenpox. Several of the chickenpox weren't too bad...they just got infected and needed IV antibiotics. One of them though had lesions down the throat, needed to be intubated and was pretty serious.
The pertussis cases I saw were heartbreaking. I can't really describe what it's like to watch a 5 month old cough, gag, and turn blue, worry about bones breaking, etc, and stand by and not be able to do much but pray. As I sat in those situations, I put myself in the shoes of the parents and wondered how I would feel about my decision if I were in the exact situation as them. I'm the kind of person where it really really bothers me to see my children sick at all. I worry myself sick every time I think of them getting ill. I can't imagine if they had one of these diseases instead of the simple colds and bugs.

But the rest of it, has been talking with nurses and doctors much older than me, who recall cases of measles, Hib, polio etc. I know a lot of people here claim that measles is so mild, etc. But listen to the stories of nurses who worked in "measles wards" during outbreaks, and it's heartbreaking.
The recent Hib outbreak occurred right across state lines from us, and as our unit prepared ourselves for an outbreak here, some of the older doctors and nurses got to talking about "back in the days of Hib" and had some really terrifying stories to share. Epiglottis, encephalitis, etc.

I used to be so afraid of vaccinating my children, because I was afraid something terrible would happen. But as I've done more and more vaccines, I feel more and more comfortable. Especially with a toddler on up, you really can't even tell at all that they'd had a shot! No fever, no fussies, nothing. They didn't drop down on the floor and have seizures, their eyes didn't glaze over and become zombies. They are the same perfect children that they were before the shots. Except now they have immunity from some really horrible illnesses.
I was also afraid that it would weaken the immune system. What's ironically funny, is that my first child, who only received 3 shots in her first 15 months, was sick ALL THE TIME. Seriously, she'd only go 2 weeks being well. And then she'd be sick for another 2 weeks! We were getting ready to test her for cystic fibrosis or some other thing that would cause this. And the ear infections..ohmygod the ear infections. And I was a stay at home mom, never went anywhere, she had nothing but breastmilk until 9 months when we started solids, BF until 2 yrs, no siblings to bring home germs, etc.

My son, who we did way more shots with, has NEVER been sick. Never. Not even a runny nose. He's had some fevers....like 24 hours of a 102 temp, but then the next day gone. Oh and a mild case of pinkeye. And I go to work this time around (around sick kids, at that!) take them to more places, he has a sibling to share germs with, etc.

I know that there are a lot of really valid concerns with vaccines. But to me, it comes down to: the KNOWN fact that these illnesses are very serious and can kill..... and the theory that vaccines may cause this or that problem. Sure there are vaccine reactions. Just like with any medication you give. You want to talk toxic? Come see what kind of drugs we give to premature babies to keep them alive. Or some of the drugs we use on kids who are really sick to make them better. Look up how much aluminum is in a bag of fluids you'd get in an IV. Medications have toxins, it's a simple fact. But you are exchanging that for something that is life saving.
I know that vaccines can kill. Just like any drug. In fact, my own husband almost died last year (literally, almost died...went into cardiac failure and spent a week in the ICU) from a reaction to an antibiotic.
However, we definitely don't see the number of babies dropping dead from vaccines that we saw when we had measles, Hib, diptheria, etc. Nowhere near that. If we stopped using any and all drugs that could possibly cause reaction or death, there would be a lot more dead people as a result of NOT having these medications and treatments than from having them.

Gosh, sorry that was so long. This decision has been a really long road for me. I know that there are plenty of very valid reasons NOT to vax and it's a decision I very much respect, but for me, this is the path I decided to take. There's a few that we skip, and I do put off the non-urgent ones until past age 1 when they can handle it better (no fever or fussies, etc) but other than that, I have really changed my mind with things and I feel way more at peace with this decision than I did when I didn't vax at all.

Hopefully that explains my reasoning without sounding like I am coming down on anyone or thinking I'm more right than anyone else...
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#6 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Proud2BeAnAmerican View Post
nak


Couldn't you just ask your ped to order what you need to keep going on the schedule you had? Or visit another Dr./office who has what you need, for a "shot only" visit?

My ped has his own very small private practice. He already pays for so much out of his own pocket, I do not want to ask him to order special just for me. And like I said, with this way I'm actually cutting down on the number of injections they would receive by quite a bit.

I could go to another office for shots...but I really don't want to. I don't want to go to the hassle of transferring their medical files over to a new clinic, paying for "new patient" fees, and then also offending my ped. I LOVE my kids' ped and he has done so much for us.

My biggest concern here, is just that I make sure I have things appropriately dosed/spaced before taking this schedule in to the Ped. I'm the only one of his clients that delays vacs so I'm really throwing a wrench into things. I wonder if I can actually like....CALL the manufacturer on the phone and ask them?
I just thought this would be a good place to ask, since so many mammas here have educated themselves, and if you do a selective/delayed schedule that you've made up on your own you know just how complicated it can be to figure it out sometimes!
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#7 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 05:24 PM
 
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I am taking a look and will definitely go through and post my thoughts soon! My MIL is in town so that complicates things

I am looking into a combos a lot right now so I will let you know what we are up to as well.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#8 of 10 Old 02-19-2010, 11:14 PM
 
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Just wanted to respond to where you said you didn't want to put yoru ped through the hassle/cost of ordering seperate vaxes...at my dr. office we can do that as long as we are willing to pay the difference

so with ds we wanted to do dtap but wanted daptecel brand (least aluminum) we just had to pay 10 dollars for them to get it and it was no big deal at all.

me, dh and 2 boys = our family (oh and a cat...who is also a male...lol)
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#9 of 10 Old 02-21-2010, 02:41 AM
 
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could you schedule a consult visit with your ped, without the kids, to talk through this? if he has been that good so far he would prly be willing to help as much as posisble. i wish i trusted our peds office enough to discuss vaxing with them but they are provax and the only peds office within an hrs drive (actually they are only 2mins away) that 'permits' pts to delay/selectively vax. personally i would not do the HepB at this point. from what i understand, it is really only for sure and certain good for about 10yrs, and that's a blood/sexual contact transmitted disease mainly. our ped uses pentacel and prevnar (PCV7) - we alt months with them. the pentacel we looked at how much stuff in each and the combo is i think possibly less than each component? not positive, its late, but i do know its not more..... try dr sears vaccine book i think there is something in there on pediarix, i'm not familiar with it.....GL!
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#10 of 10 Old 02-21-2010, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If I scheduled a separate consult visit, I'd have to pay for it out of my pocket. My insurance only covers "routine preventative care visits". Meaning, the normal baby checkup visits, for instance, when I had some concerns about my son's development and took him in, the insurance wouldn't touch the cost of the visit.

I do have Sears vaccine book, as well as about a dozen others. I understand all about Hep B. Which is why I have delayed it this far, and why I want my kids to have it before they will be thrown into a group of kids to play without my close supervision, not to mention I don't think it's worth filling out all the exemption paperwork JUST for Hep B.
With the first 2, I am doing Pediarix because Pentacel contains Hib, and they are both already fully vaccinated for Hib. If I used the Pentacel for them, not only would they be re-vaccinated for Hib, but then they'd have to eventually have Hep B anyway. They are both old enough at this point that I am not worried about them receiving the Hep B shot.

I am using Pentacel with the new baby, because then we'll be starting from scratch rather than jumping in, know what I mean? But it wouldn't make sense to do it for my other 2 who have received the ones they have.
And yes, you are right. The Pentacel combo contains less preservatives and other ingredients than the separate vaccines. And also in clinical studies, there was no change in reaction to the combo than to the separate shots. Pediarix did have a higher rate of symptoms (fever and crying, I think) which is why I wouldn't give it to my infant. (but again, I feel totally fine with vaccines once my kids hit about 1 yr of age because at that point their body takes it like a champ and there isn't even the slightest indication they've had it)
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