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#1 of 44 Old 01-05-2011, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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so I am getting more scared of HIB the more I read. I am afraid on the encephalitis that can be a possible complication, which is apparently 1 in 1000. That doesn't seem to bad but I am pretty sure a chance of a reaction would be something like that too.

 

I am also considering MMR (which is in a previous post) at age 4 or 5. I am only worried about encephalitis there again and only with measles but apparently you can only do MMR now.

 

Do you think it's worth the risk? Why or why not?


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#2 of 44 Old 01-05-2011, 05:10 PM
 
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what do you mean regarding encelphalitis and the hib vaccine? that its a complication of the vaccine or the disease? is it possible you are confusing that stat with measles (which has a encephalitis rate around 1 in 1000 according to some studies) and 1 in 1 million with the vaccine (again, according to some studies)?

 

I believe hib is a very nonreactive and safe vaccine that protects against a bacteria that has very high risk of death and disability. MMR we also do because we feel the benefits outweigh risks. the mumps portion is not so hot as far as immunity numbers go, but the measles and rubella portions offer very good protection. we chose the mmr over the risks rubella can pose to a woman (and I was exposed on a plane once while pregnant!) and the issues that arise with measles, esp infection in young children.

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#3 of 44 Old 01-06-2011, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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yeah I meant without the vax those are the numbers. HIB i *feel* may not be so bad, bu there seems to be a lack of testing...I am pretty terrified about the MMR since so many people seem to have come forward about their children having serious reactions to it causing brain damage.

 


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#4 of 44 Old 01-06-2011, 06:17 AM
 
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hib has quite a bit of study on it. what kinds are you looking for? i might be able to pull up some full access ones for you. google scholar and pubmed are very good for this. Also you can see the trial data on the package insert. There are post licensure studies on the CDC site as well.


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#5 of 44 Old 01-06-2011, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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really? I have found limited info and have read the manufacture's statements that it has not been tested in mutinagentic, carcinagetic, or impairment of fertility

 

 

also that studies done were in combination with DTaP so it unkown if the side effects were from DTap or HIB


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#6 of 44 Old 01-06-2011, 07:24 AM
 
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So you would like to see studies about vaccines in general and fertility? or a study that shows that hib vaccine in and of itself, tested in conjunction with no other, does not impair fertility? I don't think you can find that. A study of that nature would be impossible. But what would the mechanism be for loss of fertility from the protein of hib + a sugar compound?


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#7 of 44 Old 01-06-2011, 07:37 AM
 
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OP, do you have the possibility of going to Europe for the measles only shot? Sounds you are like us, only wanting measles protection. I'm European so we have the chance to do this... We will get the monovalent measles one and then check for adequate titers. If our kids haven't had mumps by teenager time, we can go ahead and get that one... Rubella is off the table for us for the immoral production of it. Our kids can decide to get it if they feel okay with it. I wish the Japanese version was available on the markets... It's not made the same way (rabbit cells only).

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so I am getting more scared of HIB the more I read. I am afraid on the encephalitis that can be a possible complication, which is apparently 1 in 1000. That doesn't seem to bad but I am pretty sure a chance of a reaction would be something like that too.

 

I am also considering MMR (which is in a previous post) at age 4 or 5. I am only worried about encephalitis there again and only with measles but apparently you can only do MMR now.

 

Do you think it's worth the risk? Why or why not?


As far as HIB, my pediatrician said if we were to get any vaccines it should be HIB and Prevnar, since both are for deadly and disabling bacterial infections. I was originally on the fence, but awhile back I saw a story on 60 Minutes (or one of those shows) about a dancer at Julliard who had no arms and legs. Turned out when she was 2 years old she lost her limbs to a Pneumococcal infection (which Prevnar prevents; the girl got the disease before the vaccine was available). That was enough of a reason for me!

 

As for the MMR I am unsure... DS1 got it on time, DS2 has not had it yet (he is almost 2 years old). Still on the fence!
 


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#9 of 44 Old 01-23-2011, 08:26 AM
 
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so I am getting more scared of HIB the more I read. I am afraid on the encephalitis that can be a possible complication, which is apparently 1 in 1000. That doesn't seem to bad but I am pretty sure a chance of a reaction would be something like that too.

 

I am also considering MMR (which is in a previous post) at age 4 or 5. I am only worried about encephalitis there again and only with measles but apparently you can only do MMR now.

 

Do you think it's worth the risk? Why or why not?


As far as HIB, my pediatrician said if we were to get any vaccines it should be HIB and Prevnar, since both are for deadly and disabling bacterial infections. I was originally on the fence, but awhile back I saw a story on 60 Minutes (or one of those shows) about a dancer at Julliard who had no arms and legs. Turned out when she was 2 years old she lost her limbs to a Pneumococcal infection (which Prevnar prevents; the girl got the disease before the vaccine was available). That was enough of a reason for me!

 

As for the MMR I am unsure... DS1 got it on time, DS2 has not had it yet (he is almost 2 years old). Still on the fence!
 


Did the 60 Minutes episode mention that there are approximately 91 pneumococcal serotypes, and that Prevnar only covers 13?

 

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/01/31/sisyphus-and-the-conjugate-vaccines/


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#10 of 44 Old 01-23-2011, 04:11 PM
 
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so I am getting more scared of HIB the more I read. I am afraid on the encephalitis that can be a possible complication, which is apparently 1 in 1000. That doesn't seem to bad but I am pretty sure a chance of a reaction would be something like that too.

 

I am also considering MMR (which is in a previous post) at age 4 or 5. I am only worried about encephalitis there again and only with measles but apparently you can only do MMR now.

 

Do you think it's worth the risk? Why or why not?


As far as HIB, my pediatrician said if we were to get any vaccines it should be HIB and Prevnar, since both are for deadly and disabling bacterial infections. I was originally on the fence, but awhile back I saw a story on 60 Minutes (or one of those shows) about a dancer at Julliard who had no arms and legs. Turned out when she was 2 years old she lost her limbs to a Pneumococcal infection (which Prevnar prevents; the girl got the disease before the vaccine was available). That was enough of a reason for me!

 

As for the MMR I am unsure... DS1 got it on time, DS2 has not had it yet (he is almost 2 years old). Still on the fence!
 


Did the 60 Minutes episode mention that there are approximately 91 pneumococcal serotypes, and that Prevnar only covers 13?

 

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/01/31/sisyphus-and-the-conjugate-vaccines/


 

Whilst this covers only seven strains out of more than ninety strains, these seven strains cause 80% to 90% of cases of severe pneumococcal disease, and it is considered to be nearly 100% effective against these strains.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumococcal_conjugate_vaccine)
 

They are speaking above about the original Prevnar, not the Prevnar 13 which covers 13 strains. 80%-90% protection from death or disability is good enough for me! Besides it is a fairly safe vaccine. I feel that by giving my children THIS particular vaccine I am protecting them from something that could greatly harm them.


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#11 of 44 Old 01-26-2011, 09:29 AM
 
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No vaccines are tested for carcinogenic or mutanegentic (or impairment of fertility) properties. NONE

 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#12 of 44 Old 01-27-2011, 12:28 PM
 
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No vaccines are tested for carcinogenic or mutanegentic (or impairment of fertility) properties. NONE

 

Are you referring to human studies?

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#13 of 44 Old 01-28-2011, 10:38 AM
 
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yes

 

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No vaccines are tested for carcinogenic or mutanegentic (or impairment of fertility) properties. NONE

 

Are you referring to human studies?




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yes
 

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No vaccines are tested for carcinogenic or mutanegentic (or impairment of fertility) properties. NONE

 

Are you referring to human studies?


How would you design one?

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The HIB is a baby vaccination basically with a good marketing campaign. The only deaths I have read about related to the HIB are from vaccinated children. The MMR is for diseases that are not that serious. If you feel you must do the MMR anyway, then at least wait until your child is much older..as in, 4 yrs old or so, before doing the first one. 

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You have missed a lot of news then. Minnesota outbreak  resulted in 3 unvaxed cases, 1 undervaxed, 1 vaxed case (immune deficieny rendered vaccine useless)- death in unvaxed child. Outbreak in southeast PA- 7 cases, all unvaccinated, 3 deaths (obviously all unvaccinated).Same year as those two outbreaks (2008 into early 2009) NY has 2 hib deaths, again, both unvaccinated-- that one didn't make the news as much as the others it seems.

 

I have articles for all these if you want to see them. There are others, but I think this is enough to prove that unvaccinated hib cases and deaths are the majority of the cases we see today. Yes, there are a few vaxed cases and there was even 1 vaccinated death in 2008, but the majority are in unvaccinated (followed by undervaccinated)


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http://www.allbusiness.com/medicine-health/diseases-disorders-infectious/14742618-1.html


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You have missed a lot of news then. Minnesota outbreak  resulted in 3 unvaxed cases, 1 undervaxed, 1 vaxed case (immune deficieny rendered vaccine useless)- death in unvaxed child. Outbreak in southeast PA- 7 cases, all unvaccinated, 3 deaths (obviously all unvaccinated).Same year as those two outbreaks (2008 into early 2009) NY has 2 hib deaths, again, both unvaccinated-- that one didn't make the news as much as the others it seems.

 

I have articles for all these if you want to see them. There are others, but I think this is enough to prove that unvaccinated hib cases and deaths are the majority of the cases we see today. Yes, there are a few vaxed cases and there was even 1 vaccinated death in 2008, but the majority are in unvaccinated (followed by undervaccinated)

 

Couldn't agree more!! How about the Pertussis outbreak in CA not too long ago- I think all deaths were nonvaccinated babies. Yes, I agree that newborns shouldn't be given like 5 or more vaccines at once, that is why we do a delayed schedule. But some vaccines are very important.

 

As far as MMR, I have boys so the mumps part is important to me as it can cause sterility in males.

 


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The MMR is for diseases that are not that serious.

Measles may not likely be terribly serious for a healthy, well-nourished child, but it is highly contagious and can spread like wild-fire; that IS serious from a public health standpoint.



 

 

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You have missed a lot of news then. Minnesota outbreak  resulted in 3 unvaxed cases, 1 undervaxed, 1 vaxed case (immune deficieny rendered vaccine useless)- death in unvaxed child. Outbreak in southeast PA- 7 cases, all unvaccinated, 3 deaths (obviously all unvaccinated).Same year as those two outbreaks (2008 into early 2009) NY has 2 hib deaths, again, both unvaccinated-- that one didn't make the news as much as the others it seems.

 

I have articles for all these if you want to see them. There are others, but I think this is enough to prove that unvaccinated hib cases and deaths are the majority of the cases we see today. Yes, there are a few vaxed cases and there was even 1 vaccinated death in 2008, but the majority are in unvaccinated (followed by undervaccinated)

 

Couldn't agree more!! How about the Pertussis outbreak in CA not too long ago- I think all deaths were nonvaccinated babies. Yes, I agree that newborns shouldn't be given like 5 or more vaccines at once, that is why we do a delayed schedule. But some vaccines are very important.

 

As far as MMR, I have boys so the mumps part is important to me as it can cause sterility in males.

 



All deaths were babies who were too young to be fully vaccinated anyway, and were children of immigrant families, likely exposed to heavy amounts of pesticides.  And 10 deaths out of several thousand cases - while tragic, as infant deaths always are - is hardly catastrophic from an epidemic standpoint.

 

 

From the MacMillan Guide to Family Health 1982:

"Mumps is a common infectious disease caused by a virus. After an incubation period of 2-4 weeks the salivary glands swell, the parotid gland (just in front of the ear) is particularly infected. Swelllings are usually accompanied by a raised temperature and a general feeling of illness. It is probably the most common childhood infectious disease but not as contagious as measles.

A fairly common risk of mumps is the swelling of testes in a boy or the ovaries in a girl. This is much more common in an adult. Invariably the swelling goes down after a few days leaving no ill effects. It is excessively rare for the swelling to cause sterility. A rare complication is acute pancreatitis which passes within a few days. Mumps is generally a mild disease. The usual outcome is complete recovery within about 10 days"

 

Considering that there are no studies on potential fertility impairments from the actual vaccine, vaccinating because of fertility concerns may be counterproductive.


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#21 of 44 Old 01-29-2011, 07:48 PM
 
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From the MacMillan Guide to Family Health 1982:

"[...] A fairly common risk of mumps is the swelling of testes in a boy or the ovaries in a girl. This is much more common in an adult. Invariably the swelling goes down after a few days leaving no ill effects. It is excessively rare for the swelling to cause sterility. A rare complication is acute pancreatitis which passes within a few days. Mumps is generally a mild disease. The usual outcome is complete recovery within about 10 days"

 

Well, postpubertal mumps leads to orchitis in about 25% of cases, with perhaps half of those causing testicular atrophy. I suppose it's a dusky path in the hodology of the (sensible) "would you expose" question, but I don't know that it warrants a stock response, especially as a real rather than speculative threat to fertility.

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From the MacMillan Guide to Family Health 1982:

"[...] A fairly common risk of mumps is the swelling of testes in a boy or the ovaries in a girl. This is much more common in an adult. Invariably the swelling goes down after a few days leaving no ill effects. It is excessively rare for the swelling to cause sterility. A rare complication is acute pancreatitis which passes within a few days. Mumps is generally a mild disease. The usual outcome is complete recovery within about 10 days"

 

Well, postpubertal mumps leads to orchitis in about 25% of cases, with perhaps half of those causing testicular atrophy. I suppose it's a dusky path in the hodology of the (sensible) "would you expose" question, but I don't know that it warrants a stock response, especially as a real rather than speculative threat to fertility.

What is hodology??

 


The "stock response" as you call it was a quote from a medical publication.  I have a son too.  The extremely slim chance that he might be exposed to mumps and be rendered sterile someday does not even remotely weigh in on my decision to have him get the MMR vaccine.


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chance that he might be exposed to mumps and be rendered sterile someday does not even remotely weigh in on my decision to have him get the MMR vaccine.


Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. :)
 


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#24 of 44 Old 01-30-2011, 03:49 PM
 
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We do HIB and Prevnar pretty young...that(meningitis from these bacterias) is something kids do get in our area and our kids are at risk for (more so Travis and River since Janelle and Kincaid were already in school when they were born...Janelle and Kincaid got no vaccines before 2 and 3 years old respectively and Travis and River started getting vaccines at 6 months old) so we did do them.  We also did do dtap after the hib and prevnar were both done (and we only do 1 vaccine at a time, so it took awhile) for Travis and River (and Janelle, but not till she was close to 5) because Kincaid, due to having epilepsy, was not allowed to get it, so he definitely could of brought pertusis home to the babies when they were still very young.

 

That's all we did till school age for any of the kids.  At 5 we got them their MMR shots and at 6 we did the MMR booster, at 7 Janelle, and Kincaid will, started polio...soon we will do hepatitis b, and then, once they get to puberty if we don't manage to catch it, they will get chicken pox vaccines.


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#25 of 44 Old 02-01-2011, 08:06 AM
 
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I wouldn't since Im not a scientist.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know that something you are taking (a drug) or injecting causes cancer, causes your dna to mutate or renders you infertile.

Im aware basically all drugs are not tested for these things. Not just vaccines. Doesn't make it right.

 

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No vaccines are tested for carcinogenic or mutanegentic (or impairment of fertility) properties. NONE

 

Are you referring to human studies?


How would you design one?




If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#26 of 44 Old 02-02-2011, 12:44 AM
 
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I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know that something you are taking (a drug) or injecting causes cancer, causes your dna to mutate or renders you infertile.

Im aware basically all drugs are not tested for these things. Not just vaccines. Doesn't make it right.

 

But you do understand that any such investigation would in essence require massive overdosing in an attempt to see whether one were able to induce such outcomes, yes?

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#27 of 44 Old 02-02-2011, 12:04 PM
 
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In the mothering magazine recently, it discussed the pertussis outbreak in California, and the majority of the cases were VACCINATED children and adults.  That vaccine does not cover all types of pertussis, and not all who get vaccinated become immune anyway.

 

I am not doing MMR until my son is a teenager and his body and brain can handle the vaccine, if then.  My argument against these vaccines is that the brains of infants and children are sensitive to all the excipients in the vaccines, like aluminum that is only in there to augment the reaction.  

 

Also, from a Biblical standpoint, injecting foreign substances into your body is not natural.  We are exposed by our eyes, ears, nose, and mouth, and the best vaccines would be oral or nasal to duplicate the natural routes of exposure.

 

Measles is not that serious a disease.  More reactions to the vaccine occur than deaths from the disease.  And if you do vaccinate your child, you have nothing to fear from those who are not vaccinated! 

 

Good luck to the original poster is making your own decision--don't get talked into something unless you are comfortable with it!  I recommend making sure your kids' immune systems are strong, like optimizing vitamin D, over vaccines, personally.

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#28 of 44 Old 02-02-2011, 12:07 PM
 
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nasal and oral vaccines are in development for both measles and pertussis; should be interesting to see what kind of immunity numbers they produce. You can get nasal influenza and oral rotavirus as of right now. I did read an article a while back about an oral vaccine for meningitis (don't remember which bacteria it was for) but I have not read anything about that since.


"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#29 of 44 Old 02-02-2011, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovinbeinamama View Post

More reactions to the vaccine occur than deaths from the disease.

 

Setting aside any matter of actual numbers and their interpretation, this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.

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#30 of 44 Old 02-03-2011, 02:09 PM
 
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Clearly, Otto, you just want to argue this point ad infinitum.  It is valid to say that there are more reactions to the vaccine than deaths from the disease because we're talking about whether the RISK is worth it.  When it's a disease like measles that is rarely deadly, we should be concerned about how many reactions to the vaccine occur, and they are vastly under-reported. 

 

Disease is a normal part of existence, so being afraid of ever having ANY disease is pure naivete.  Until vaccines are safer, I'm choosing to keep them out of my children.  I'll take my chances with the diseases. 

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